Ok. What am I doing wrong. I have good steps, good grip, good power at release but I still cannot get a decent glide on ANY disc I throw.
I do get a good glide (should say distance w/ glide) when the disc is no more than 4 feet high, but when I try to get it a little higher they all die out on me.
I think I'm getting a good release most of the time as I feel the burn in my fingertips from it ripping out. But still no glide.
I have a variety of drivers. My two I can get the longest are a Z-express(173)(flys mostly straight/maybe a little right) and my 168 DX Cheetah(tends to fly right).
My "newbier than me" friend bought a 168 JLS & he can get awesome glide so I bought a 168 Q-JLS and while I did get OK distance I didn't get the glide he was getting.
If it matters I also have a 174 Pro Gazelle,172 DX Gazelle, 170 Champ Eagle,174 Quarter K but rarely throw them.

So what am I missing from my technique to overcome this? Any tips or suggestions?
My max throw from practicing tonight was about 275 with the Z-Xpress & the QJLS.

I do get a good glide (should say distance w/ glide) when the disc is no more than 4 feet high, but when I try to get it a little higher they all die out on me.



I would say MAYBE you are trying to throw too high. Keep it low and level you should get the glide you are looking for....

When a disc is thrown high, it usually means the nose is up and the disc will stall and fade (left)

Hope that helps a lil bit....

Yes, When I throw low & level it will really glide, 4-5 feet above the ground & go some good distance.
Problem is when I try to do more of a line drive & get the disc 10-20 feet, they don't glide & fall left.
But yes, maybe when I "try" to throw them a little higher all I'm doing is throwing it nose up. Maybe a higher release/pull across the body.
??

Throwing nose up sounds like the problem. This makes the disc loose a lot of speed and spin and it will hyzer hard to the left. If you want to throw the disc high and get good glide you have two options: #1 - throw the disc high with some anhyzer (turning to the right), this way it will come out of the right turn and glide back to the left. #2 - throw a mid-range about 10-15 feet high. Mid-ranges get extremely good glide and will not fade off to the side as much as a driver.

You may want to throw your KC Pro gazelle to work on the 'glide'. KC Pro Gazelles have extremely good glide. Also, you might want to work on your grip. If you are using a power grip and snapping the disc too hard it may be getting caught on your finger tips a little too much - making you lose some of the glide. Throwing with a fan grip should increase the amount of glide you get (there are a few websites that show examples of a fan grip - Blake's site has some good instruction and pictures - http://www.discgolfreview.com/resources/articles/gripittoripit.shtml - try using power grip #2 or the fan grip).

Thanks for the reply.


Yes. I do use a 3 finger power grip but am willing to give the fan grip a try. I see the rip point on the fan grip is the middle finger second knuckle......
and I do throw "grip locked" throws quite often with the 3 finger grip so maybe a change in grip is in order.
I do use a fan grip for putting & feel comfortable throwing it, just never on a drive.

if your fingertips are burning as the disc leaves then you are having a slide grip and not a rip, which translates into limited snap.

has your friend let you try his JLS? it would be a good illustration of champ plastic vs. non-champ. non-champ typically has more glide as they have less air friction and fade earlier. also, the slicker the plastic the more nose down you will need...

basically, it sounds like you aren't getting enough nose down. you should be able to throw above 5' high and get the nose down.

Thanks as always Blake.

This is an example of me not listening to your prior advice on NOT throwing champion plastics yet.
I haven't thrown my friends JLS, but I figured "if he can do it with his awful form, then I can do it"..... but never thought about the differences between the JLS & the Q-JLS plastics.
Would you recommend I go & pick up a regular JLS and learn that first? OR stick with the Q & learn it ?
Does it (Q) have the glide potential of the regular JLS if thrown properly?

Regarding grip.....so I SHOULDN'T be feeling anything on my fingertips when releasing? Would you recommend the fan grip as suggested earlier?

One last thing... on nose down. If I understand it correctly, I want to throw it like a line drive to get height but STILL keep nose down. Seems like it'd be hard to do....


Also, wanted to mention I've gotten the best glide with my DX Cheetah(168) but can't seem to keep it from flying & staying right.

Anyways. Thanks as always. I always bring what I learn to the field & eventually all this will "click".

You dont really need height to get the glide I think you are looking for. If you are throwing a Driver type disc (ex, cheetah, gazelle etc) it's best to keep the nose down and keep it low and level. Throwing these discs high will usually only make them stall and fade as they are stable to slightly overstable depending on your power. Can I suggest that if you want to throw higher, throw a midrange type disc, (Id suggest a midrange, ex, Roc, Buzz, etc) as these will get a lil more glide when thrown high. But ANY disc with the nose up will stall and fade....

I'd try throwing the DX Gazelle more if you don't like the way the Cheetah flies. As the Gazelle breaks in it will probably glide better and fade less.

Also, don't expect it all to happen overnight. I find it takes quite a bit of time to really make an improvement and make stick. Just keep working at it at your own pace and have fun.

Have you considered throwing a Teebird or Discraft XL? Both these disc are very beginner friendly and appear to be very friendly for those who have a problem getting the nose down. Both these have great glide also. Just a thought on something you may wanna try.

Hey oldtyme, seems like we're moving at the same pace. I stole your idea and now throw at a softball field with the fence marked at 315 and another with center field marked 290. I have the issue to. I had my girlfriend come watch me and look for obvious issues, on occasion I dip my shoulder half way threw the swing pull some kind of bull fighter ole move. Having an observer can help, I've hit the 290 fence twice, dead straight with my KC cheetah and KC gazelle. Funny thing is I don't have these problems in league, I throw a 174 sidewinder dead straight for most shots. I love that disc. It has a bad hook when I practice... Go figure.

Thanks for all the advice.
I have some thrown the KC Gazelle with good glide but only when I grip lock it & it flys 300 feet in the wrong direction :)
I'll probably go out again today & practice even though my arm is sore. Change grips/concentrate on keeping the nose down while still getting some height (more than 5 feet).
What I really think will help my game is I plan on going to some weekly "best shot" doubles that MDGC holds. It's only 5 bucks & maybe I'll be paired up with a good player & he can critique my throw.

Tenacious.....I told ya. Softball fields a great place for beginners to throw. I'd like to measure to the center field fence as that is usually where I end up. At least I have some accuracy, but the distance still needs work. I will hit a "homer" to center field before the years is up :D

What is the optimal throwing height for most drivers?

PikNik

first reply goes to Piknik:
it depends on how far you are trying to throw and what line you take as well as disc stability... but assuming you want a line-drivish 400' released flat or slight hyzer:

drivers designed 1993-1997 or in that style (cyclone, cyclone 2, gazelle, cheetah, polaris ls/voyager, sabre): ~25-35' of height.

drivers designed 1998-2000 or in that style (x2, xl, xs, reaper, eagle, teebird/teebird-l, valkyrie, viking, leopard, jls): 25-35' of height.

drivers designed 2001-present (wildcat/beast and beyond): ~8-15' of height.

keep in mind these are rules of thumb and referring to the apex of the arc.


Would you recommend I go & pick up a regular JLS and learn that first? OR stick with the Q & learn it ?
Does it (Q) have the glide potential of the regular JLS if thrown properly?



imo, i would work with the dx cheetah and gazelles you have as well as putters and midranges. the Q JLS only has the glide potential of the regular JLS after it has been seasoned 6-18 months or so. most people don't have that kind of patience.


Regarding grip.....so I SHOULDN'T be feeling anything on my fingertips when releasing? Would you recommend the fan grip as suggested earlier?



correct, you should feel some pressure, but not any kind of super friction/burn/sting/numb/tingle. a good rip overpowers the finger joint and forces it open. lots of friction implies a slip/slide.

i would only recommend the fan grip if you are very much struggling with nose angle or have a weak index finger.


One last thing... on nose down. If I understand it correctly, I want to throw it like a line drive to get height but STILL keep nose down. Seems like it'd be hard to do....


this is really only difficult if you try to throw flat and high (unless you have very large amounts of clean power). it's quite easy to get a lot of nose down height when committing to an anhyzer or hyzer. i was teaching this to someone the other day and here is the advice i gave: pick a point close by that you would want to throw through (e.g. 40' away and 20' high). if that point is sufficiently high your body will adjust on its own. next part of it is to imagine you are throwing through that point and trying to throw the disc to its apex and focusing on having the disc be nose down at that point.


Also, wanted to mention I've gotten the best glide with my DX Cheetah(168) but can't seem to keep it from flying & staying right.



this makes sense as the cheetah is the slowest and easiest to control disc out of the ones you listed. unless it is very broken in, based upon what you described about its behavior and your gazelle, i believe the way you are throwing is very resoponsible for this.

a month or two ago there was a post on the thread "wrist roll" where i compared two diff throwing styles with pictures. i would suggest checking that out. i believe you are throwing in a style that gives anhyzer nose down power but will struggle with the other methods.

Thanks Blake. I will concentrate on the DX plastics for now.
This is my 3rd cheetah (lost other 2) and is still new. Plus it's the lightest cheetah I've owned.
My DX Gazelle is fully broke in & worn well.


weak index finger


I'm not sure about weak, but I do have problems getting it comfortable under the rim on grips where the index is the rip finger. I will try some other grips & see if I can find something comfortable.
Going to check out the "wrist roll" thread....

Ok. That was a good read. Looks like I am having the same problems ol Joe was having.
This below is something I have to concentrate on (that along with the other 20 things to do in that 1/2 second of throwing :D )

The fold over of the shoulder is like people say, like starting a lawnmower (actually, I would say it's closer to starting a chain saw that you are holding in your left hand waist high



Love that edit button:

Another thing that I found helped at my last practice was following the Rick Bays article on your site regarding "run up". When I started with feet 90 degrees from basket & just do the 3 steps I found I was able to concentrate all that power in a quick motion & release.
Either way. Thanks everyone. We (I) apprecriate the time you put in the help us newbies become better newbies :D

Oh. About the Q-JLS. 12 months to season? Eeek. I should go to my popular "tree course" and break it in quicker.

I recommend the Sidewinder if you want glide. i also hear the Orion (by: Millenium) has great glide.

it helped me learn to get the nose down by holding out my hand like i am shaking someone's hand and then turning my wrist down (thumb rotates toward pinky, pinky rotates toward the ground). try releasing the disc like that on a line drive trajectory. the way the disc is oriented when it is leaving your hand is the key to whether the nose is down or not (and also determines what line it will take).

Thanks Rob. The sidewinder was definitely on my list but since it was champion plastic I held off..... I ended up with the Q-JLS (not really knowing it was champion also) because I got 2 new discs for $16 shipped off ebay. One tye dyed & one regular. It was a sweet deal.(considering they want $15 for a regular JLS here locally)

I got the wrist down thing, but not sure if I keep it down on the throw. I will have to have someone watch me tommorow (even though I'll be able to tell by which way the disc goes)

I just found out today my digital camera can shoot a short movie. Maybe I'll have them record my drive & report back....

Ya, keeping wrist down throughout throw is alot different then remembering to put it down when you're first gripping the disc.

For the rip, imo its like blake said, shouldn't feel like friction at all, but a good rip you'll kinda feel the energy build up and transfer in the form of tendon bounce I think.

Remember throwing 25ft high isn't achieved by trying to get the disc 25 ft 60ft out. So your aim would probably be 350 ft first, so you probably want the disc more like15-20ft high at its apex. That is really not a huge change from getting the disc to fly 10ft over the ground. Just slightly angled up higher (the disc trajectory not nose) and a cleaner more powerful throw will give it more power to get out to that height.

Really good that your using those cheetahs. I strongly reccommend on listening to blake and and stay off those champ and high speed discs until you can throw 400ft, and then still make sure not to use them as a crutch. If you get those cheetah throws straightened, and just get a little more D, which should come with the cleaned up throw, you'll have an excellent throw.

Went out today & did well.
Stuck with the Cheetah & the Z-Xpress (still love that Xpress- it's probably my farthest / straightest disc)
I still was throwing low shots (with OK distance) but am feeling better overall with grip & my steps (read above, the 3 step from Rick Bays article works well for me. Short & fast)
As far as grip I found the Three-Finger Power/Accuracy Grip from Innovas site / Dave D's Tips very comfortable & I wasn't grip locking as much. Also did well with the birdie grip.
I think as I get more power behind my throw the disc will start to raise up on it's own, we'll see.

Thanks again everyone for the help. I didn't get a change to video my drive today, but may try tommorow (weather permitting)

Have you got your sidewinder yet?

If you need more glide , try your favorite disc in 150 class.

considering that the "no glide" problem seems to be a chronic problem for him, i'm not sure that changing discs will do anything except:
a) yield the same problem with yet another disc OR
b) become super dependent on specific discs to get any glide when most (non-lawn dart) discs should glide when thrown correctly.