I have been told for someone with a weaker arm ~300 like mine that I should quite throwing champ beasts and z predators as my main drivers. So I started to throw my dx eagle more, and it lacks predictability and fade that I'm used to with the 2 I previously mentioned. The other drivers in my bag are all 174 and are a dx viking, a quarter k, and #2 driver(for water holes), I recently traded my Z XS for a Z crush but regret it. Now I am wondering about picking up slower discs, such as a DX teebird, however, I am wondering if it will have enough fade to keep it's place in my bag.

LEARN the DX TeeBird

Elite X plastic XL's are great for what you've described. See if you can borrow someone else's. Nearly everyone has had an XL at some point.

When I first started out a year ago, I read countless warnings about the higher speed discs fostering bad technique. This is probably why the slower discs are unpredicatable for you. You have probably developed techniques to make overstable fast discs fly well for you when you're not putting enough power on them. I like the stable slower discs like teebirds, eagles, xl's, and cyclones. If you can't stand how unpredicatble they are for you, try throwing the more overstable slower discs. Not sure which ones those are, maybe a banshee. Remember if you get dx plastic, the flight of the disc will change much more rapidly than champ and z plastic.

I used to throw some XL's and actually thought about picking one up again...the tree gnomes at the local course decided to eat all of mine.

I agree with jacksweather. Something is wrong with your technique. Unless those other drivers are all beat to hell, you shouldn't be flipping them that bad if you can only drive 300.
Try releasing them with some hyzer (if you've never thrown a hyzer flip, you should try...it's a cool shot).
One thing to make sure of is that your hand is perpendicular to the ground after your throw....if your thumb is pointing behind you, you're rolling your wrist.

Teh teebird is a very good disc as the others said. You will fall in love with it when it's properly seasoned. Get a DX at the same weight as your other discs and you should not turn it over badly with the exception of wind.

He may also not know the difference between "flipping" a disc over and "turning" as disc over because those understable discs dont tend to come out of a turn if they are put into one. This flaw is less noticable with overstable discs because they come out of a turn if your mechanics try and put it into one. If you are throwing an Archangle or anything understable and you start it on a turn with any amount of power all it is going to do is keep turning right unless you throw it very high or nose up.

Just my expierience that people say they are "flipping" discs when they are really "turning" them and they the go to overstable plastic that they dont need and just perpetuate the flaw in thier mechanics.

Just my 2 cents

I don't know what predictability you are talking about with a Z-Predator? I guess the fact that they go left for everybody, is predictable.

But as for drivers, I would say that the Z-XL or Teebird are the most predictable discs. They do pretty much what ever you release them to do.

The unpredictablility is likely coming from your arm and technique. Practicing with less stable discs will help you develop better technique and form. It at least helped with me.

I have the same power level you do. I throw about 270-300. Occasionally when everything clicks I throw one about 315 or so. I just got some DX plastic and the elite X and just started throwing in a softball field, and reading www.discgolfreview.com (http://www.discgolfreview.com) for technique issues. I got them going low and hard now, land them in the general direction I want. I like the gazelle at 163, has a little left fade at the end. Still new though.

Every disc is slow coming out of my hand. :confused:

I used the wrong word, I was "turning" them and that's why I went to the predator to compensate for lack of form. Soon I am going to get a DX TeeBird, a Proline TeeBird, and a Z XL, so I'll start working with those, and force myself to learn them. Thanx for the advice everyone.

Krusen mentioned about wrist roll and to make sure my thumb is not pointed behind me, can someone elaborate on this a little?

I used the wrong word, I was "turning" them and that's why I went to the predator to compensate for lack of form. Soon I am going to get a DX TeeBird, a Proline TeeBird, and a Z XL, so I'll start working with those, and force myself to learn them. Thanx for the advice everyone.



These three disc are all too alike. I'd suggest just buying 4 dx Teebirds OR 4 Elite x XLs and taking them to a soccer field and try to throw them in the goals from 200-300 feet. Don't try to learn so many discs at once.

i'm trading for the pro tee and the xl, and getting a dx tee at the next event. I would never buy 3 discs that are that similar at the same time and try learning them.

Krusen mentioned about wrist roll and to make sure my thumb is not pointed behind me, can someone elaborate on this a little?



before your throw, when the disc is still in your hand, you wrist is oriented with your thumb on top, and pointed towards the target. If you roll your wrist, your palm turns up, and your thumb points sorta behind you as you swing through.

This is ok, if the disc has already left your hands. but if you start doing it before the disc leaves your hand, then you are adding anhyzer angle to the disc, forcing it to turn right if you throw right handed back hand.

a very very overstable disc like a predator will still come back left from this, but other discs will keep turning right. It may seem that changing discs fixed the problem, but it only hid it.

Thank you for the explanation on that, but I am almost positive my problem is dropping my shoulder. And using the Predator probably made it worse.

I realize this is drifting more towards technique, but throwing a teebird should help me analyze and correct my flawed form right?

Ya, teebird are still pretty stable when they are bran new, once you get them broken in a little they'll require even better technique. Dx teebirds are actually kinda very unforgiving when they are broken in, cause if you turn them too much they won't come back. With the problem you might be having, it might be beneficial to mix putters into your drives too.

A t-bird will help you identify the problem, but your roc or your putter will do the same thing.

I had to learn the hard way that buying a new disc is not a replacement for practice...I still buy too many discs, but just cause I love to see how they fly. :D

Dropping your front shoulder or rolling the wrist over will force anhyzer onto your disc, keeping it from flying true. So can arching your back as you pull through.

try to ensure that the angle on the disc, the line of pull, and the follow thru are all on the same plane to prevent accidental anhyzer.

as kclofty had mentioned... IF you want a TRUE test of your technique try driving with a putter or Midrange... A midrange will show you your technique flaws well and an putter even more.

I throw mostly putters and midranges off the tee because it's a basic rule of thumb that you should throw the slowest disc possible for the shot(like in ball golf where you would hit a wedge instead of a driver for a 100yard shot) SO i tend to throw midranges on many holes at my home course.

You just want to be as fluid and Relaxed as possible when throwing. That's what I found out from driving with putters so much. The more relaxed I am and the Slower i throw the better the result. Muscling up will only make your throw worse because your muscles and wrist will be too tight to execute their motion correctly.

-Scott Lewis

My driving putters are an older Wizard and a Pro-Line Rhyno and my main mid is a beat in DX Roc. When using those discs off the tee, I know that I can use my normal form, so i just slow everything down and they fly straight(not much accidental anhyzer on them) but definitely lack the D i get with drivers.

My driving putters are an older Wizard and a Pro-Line Rhyno and my main mid is a beat in DX Roc. When using those discs off the tee, I know that I can use my normal form, so i just slow everything down and they fly straight(not much accidental anhyzer on them) but definitely lack the D i get with drivers.



If your itching for a candy driver might I humbly suggest a CE Leopard. My quest for sound technique started about 5 months ago (i'm still stratching the surface) and much headache could have been avoided had someone given me a 165 CE Leopard with the instruction: "learn how to throw this disc straight!"..
The whole Relaxing thing that greatzky mentioned is what I'm finally starting to realize and for me it started a couple of weeks ago trying to throw my new leopard. Something about the lighter weight also made me "respect" the disc more and I intuitively knew I shouldn't be trying to overpower it.

Throwing putters and midranges I'm sure is also good advice (been trying lately and it is challenging to say the least), but you seemed concerned that you were losing a benchmark for your progress, hence my suggestion. I've heard people on this forum say driving a putter requires a different, however subtle, technique than a regular driver. And I've heard people say they throw them the same. I think when you've been playing a long time the techniques all start morphing together and you end up throwing the correct disc with the correct form for a particular shot. It's confusing for us sometimes but I appreciate their efforts to share their knowledge. There is always some wisdom to glean from the words of the wise.

wow.. just wrote a bunch of words and I'm not sure I know what I'm talking about :o

....I know that I can use my normal form, so i just slow everything down and they fly straight(not much accidental anhyzer on them) but definitely lack the D i get with drivers.



It seems to be a lot of beginners ( I am pretty much a beginner, playing 18 months) seem to be pre-occupied with getting distance. I myself and I am sure that PDGA Discussion board member DG_Pimp will contest to, that while throwing far is great and fun. We would both sacrifice 50ft on our drives to get 50% better accuracy. My long open golf distance is 440-460ft, my putting range inside 30ft. I cannot always get within 30ft of those long holes.

However, a guy I golf with quiet often can barely throw 300ft. But his is dead accurate, right down the middle every time. On those holes over 400ft long, we will both take 3's on it. So while I can out drive him by 150ft on average, he can hit his target with dead accuracy inside 300ft everytime. So our scores on the course are remarkably similar.

So take out those slower drivers and midranges and work on your form and accuracy. Because once you get that down, you can bust out the big guns and work on arm speed and finally start cracking out long drives.

And then, you won't have the nickname...."Park and Two Putt" :(

I have what i consider good accuracy to about 260, my drives die at 320 max, but with the fast drivers, so I'm hoping the slow ones will just be that much more accurate and longer. My problem is "mid and 2 putt"

My quest for sound technique started about 5 months ago (i'm still stratching the surface) and much headache could have been avoided had someone given me a 165 CE Leopard with the instruction: "learn how to throw this disc straight!"..
The whole Relaxing thing that greatzky mentioned is what I'm finally starting to realize and for me it started a couple of weeks ago trying to throw my new leopard. Something about the lighter weight also made me "respect" the disc more and I intuitively knew I shouldn't be trying to overpower it.




That's funny... I seem to remember, last weekend, pointing to your drives and telling my brother to watch you because you have perfect technique. I also seem to remember you keep getting birds on holes that I hope I get pars on. You drive better than me....I upshot better than you .. wanna trade?!?

wanta try UAH on thursday or friday for some D practice?

That's funny... I seem to remember, last weekend, pointing to your drives and telling my brother to watch you because you have perfect technique.


perfect??.. :eek:

Right now I have my shoulders leading my arm correctly (i think??) but I'm pretty much flat-footed and just walking through the X-step to get my shoulders in position. When I try to add quickness and rythm my timing goes way off and I spray wildly. No, I'm still very steep on the learning curve :)

wanta try UAH on thursday or friday for some D practice?


cool.. we can help each other look for stray discs on the front 9 :cool: