Sorry if this is a repetative post, but HOW DO I GET MORE SNAP! I can throw for distance about 325-380ft with decent consistency and have even thrown 420+ft. But our local course pro (BOOBS) has told me that I have almost no snap. I think if I could snap it that I could consistently throw 400+ but I have no idea how to do that. I tried curling my arm but it feels weird and can't get the arm speed. I know the analogy of "cracking the whip" but I can't seem to do it.
Are there any advice or little tips/tricks you can offer to help me out because we have at least 6 holes at our course that are 350+ft and I am worn out trying to drive them after one round.

One way to improve your snap is to grip the disc with two fingers. This causes it to spin faster, and will give you the feel of what a good snap does to the disc. Some people only grip the disc with two fingers. I did for about four months, and it improved some of my fundamentals including snap.

I'm sure Blake_T will chime in here any second with a full explaination (form reply?), lol. Since this is a common question and one that is in many forum threads.
One suggestion, bend your elbow some on the reach back (and don't reach back all the way). If you keep your arm too straight you will never get snap. I got my first good snap throws using a lighter understable disc (like a Valk or Sidewinder), both of which pop up nice and flat when thrown hyser (easier to snap from a hyser postion in my opinion), then proceeded to take that technique forward with the ProStarfire, which I can pop up pretty good, but it comes back really nice.

I don't know about the two finger grip ... I use a 3-4 finger powergrip, depending on how much control I need. I do agree that a good grip will make a difference.

I'm sure you will get a lot of other suggestions. And you should read Blake_T's instructional stuff on discreviews.com

I'd love to be able to hit 325-380.

I have no snap, bad form & an inconsistent grip & am actually getting worse the more I play. http://www.spectreinternational.net/Emoticons/pullhair.gif

The fun is in playing & practicing.

I'm going to read about this hyzer flip thingie because I'm still not getting it. :)

Ha guys don't get too frustrated about this. I started about 11 months ago and thought I was humming a long way with my 180ft. throws.. Until I actually went out and played with someone after a few weeks of starting the sport :cool:
Yeah, they were two guys that had been playing for 8 or 9 year and belonged to the Local Golf Disc Club.
One was about 50lbs less than me and when they threw they literally threw the Disc twice as far as mine.
I couldn't believe it since up to this time I hadn't played with anyone. I was so discouraged after this Round because of the distance I had compared to these guys .....I almost quit right then and there.

But you know what 10 months later I have consistently kept with it and kept with it and am getting close to 350ft now.
Guys, it will just take time and the whole snap thing frustrated the hell out of me. But the last few months I am actually feeling the whole snap thing in my wrists during the throw. I thought it would never come............... :D

Like I said practice, practice and pracitice !! And listen to people like Blake because he has a very strong grasp on techniques and mechanics and communicates it in a very easy to understand way.

One thing that helps me is in your off time when you are watching TV or something take you arm and whip it like you have a wet towell in your hand. I call it "air" Discin !! ;)
Kind of like playing air guitar. Just practice flipping back and forth that whippin motion of your wrist.
A little unorthodox but it has helped me.

Just remember to Keep on Keeping on guys /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

It's just like snappin a towel at the YMCA :eek:

basically...

the components of snap:
-grip strength
-timing
-plyometrics of extension
-strength of kinetic chain

increasing grip strength = choosing/manipulating a grip that will yield the strongest possible rip and lock, which are how the plyometric force gets transferred from the finger tips into the rim wall in the forward direction during the tendon bounce (btw, the explanation of tendon bounce on my site is A tendon bounce, just not THE tendon bounce that is important, i have an article in the works that will give the correct explanation).

not sure how to increase timing, but to make sure that all of the trigger points in your throw launch incidentally (they begin to fire because of other motion). it starts with the footwork, x-step -> toe direction -> hip rotation -> motion of the obliques -> opening of the shoulder -> pull of the upper arm -> bend of the elbow (happens by keeping the disc close) -> extension of the elbow -> slight bend of the wrist (due to gravity) -> abrupt stop and return of wrist -> rip from hand.

plyometrics = rapid contraction of a pre-stretched muscle. this yields explosive force as it harnesses tendon elasticity (tendon bounce) that is extremly powerful if harnessed.

i explained the kinetic chain in the timing section. ways to increase the strength of your throw are to become stronger in the involved muscle groups of the chain. however, the incidential triggers will still need to be there to carry maximum acceleration through the conscious motions.

the other key is to be strong at the finish and pull through the shot. about 3 weeks ago this question was asked and people said it was helpful when i explained it like imagine you are breaking a board with the back of your hand at your rip point and how you would go about powering that to break through the board with the greatest amount of force.

How does the abrupt stop and return of the wrist occur? Are you consciously stopping the wrist like you would with a towel snapping motion?

no, the abrupt stop occurs is an abrupt stop in the forward direction. read as: as you enter the follow through, the motion changes from forwards to sideways.

it is the point where this changes directions that the wrist returns, stops, and the disc rips out.

For myself , a full pull , with a shallow rim disc.

... -> abrupt stop and return of wrist -> rip from hand.


Blake (or anyone else), please tell me if I'm understanding this correctly.

The "rip from hand" occurs because, as Newton says, an object in motion will remain in motion. The disc has momentum in the forward direction. When the hand abruptly stops (because the arm isn't long enough for it to go forward anymore), the disc wants to keep moving forward, and so it rips out of the hand.

If so, it seems like the key to the rip is momentum, and so a heavier disc (assuming equal velocity) should generate more snap. Of course, it takes more muscle to accelerate the heavier disc to the same velocity, so there might be a balance to be struck...

So, summing up, will a heavier disc generally result in a stronger rip?
I've been throwing 150g drivers, with good success, but I wonder what I'm giving up.

heavier disc = throwing with more force to get the same output but the discs flight paths are altered compared to the heavier weight of the disc.

Light disc = throwing with less force gets the same output but there again your discs flight pattern will be different as the disc weighs less.

It takes some tuning in but just remember, lighter you dont have to throw as hard to get the same distance. Now if I could only make a 175 take the same flight path as the 164. :confused:

Mark,

your summary of the motion is correct.

there is a component, however, that does dictate snap and relates to plyometrics and is really the key factor. as gravity attemps to pull the disc back, the more muscular resistance you can put against it, the more force is applied against the tendons, and greater potential force. similarly, if the disc is light enough for it to move with your hand, the more of the elastic rebound force from the tendons will be transferred into the rim wall in the forward directly during the rip.

your summary of momentum is correct and that says that heavier discs will rip out more uniformly (read as accuracy/consistency) with less than perfect timing. however, according to the biomechanics of the situation, the lighter the disc, the more potential force. combining the two together yields that there is a weight that corresponds to your muscular strength taht will yield the greatest accuracy while any lighter weight will add no snap potential.

hope this helps to clear things up a bit.

crystal

I'm sure this has been asked a million times to but, do you actually let go of the disc or does it forcefully remove itself?

I tried letting the disc remove itself and looked like some kinda special olympion. Haven't tried that again, but I've noticed my side arm is well exceeding my RHBH throws (when it works). Thanks for the tips. Blake's site has help me understand my form is wrong, getting my body to agree is something totally different.

I'm sure this has been asked a million times to but, do you actually let go of the disc or does it forcefully remove itself?

I tried letting the disc remove itself and looked like some kinda special olympion. Haven't tried that again, but I've noticed my side arm is well exceeding my RHBH throws (when it works). Thanks for the tips. Blake's site has help me understand my form is wrong, getting my body to agree is something totally different.



The disc will rip itself out if your form is correct. When you get it down it will feel more like a whip than a throwing motion. I'm thinking you may not be bringing the disc close enough to your chest. For myself the motions are reachback, twist, and follow through. You should not be using any leading steps yet if you can't get the disc to rip out.

Reachback: Twist your upper body bringing the disc to just below your ear. You might want to lift your front foot as you get coiled up.

Twist: Bring the foot down at the same time as turning you upper body as fast as possible. This twist starts from the ground up, your shoulders should be following your torso. During this phase I keep my arm fairly relaxed until the....

Follow through: This is a little more timing intensive (practice), but at some point you want to extend your lower arm like you're backhanding a redheaded step child. This extension is what causes the disc to rip itself out.

disc should forcefully remove.

guess i'm doing it wrong
mj

Just below the ear in height. I've never backhanded a step child that big before. Should be cooler tomorrow. A nice break after the 100 degree weather. I'll try it out.

I was just trying to emphasize the follow through. I just stepped my D up 100' last year, and when I have a throw that doesn't fly the way I intended, it's usually the lack of follow through. My max is only 350 so take my advice w/ a grain of salt. Just thought I could relate since it hasn't been too long since my form was waaayyy off. Do yourself a favor an print off Blake's article so you can read it over and over w/o logging on.

To everyone who posted THANKS ALOT! everyone's comments were helpful on some level or another. Blake_T, you should be president of the world. Your website was extremely helpful. I accomplished 2 things for the first time last night. 1) I hyzer flipped a starfire that went 400+ft. and 2) I threw a firechicken more than 250ft, it went 300+ft. AND IT WAS MAX WEIGHT TOO.
I have one thing to add. I never really thought that the spin was that important before a couple months ago. But for those skeptics, do this experiment. Stand still and reach the disc back as far as you can and throw it without spin and see how far it goes. Now, just curl your arm and wrist and "fling" the disc with very little arm movement and see how far it goes. You will be surprised at the results. I threw almost 4 times as far just spinning the disc. :eek:
Now that I can drive the holes, anybody got any advice on ACCURACY? LOL :confused:

Now that I can drive the holes, anybody got any advice on ACCURACY? LOL



Yeah. Forget about distance :eek: :D Just kidding.

I find im most accurate when I take a slow controlled run up and look at my target as long as humanly possible during my reachback. Then make sure to ACCELERATE threw the throw. Any deceleration will cause you to shank or saw the shot off short and left. Just go to a field and throw at a tree or some goal posts for a few hours. Youll be amazed what throwing 200-300 shots will do for your accuracy :D

Blake_T, you should be president of the world.



haha, i feel the same way sometimes.

as for the comments about trying to throw with spin or not, the drill you described is actually one about snap. the short quick motion is an easy way to generate a noticeable amount of snap, and the reason for the bent elbow throw. snap increases the force release during the lock and rip, which causes increased angular velocity and increased rpm's.

as for accuracy, the key is to finish the force/velocity vector with your body in the direction of the throw :)
ensuring that you lead the disc along with your throwing hand in front of it will also help in this regards.

One more newbie type question....

If snap is the result of the wrist stopping, then how do you follow through? Seems like the motion would stop at the wrist?

On a plus side, I actually had ONE good throw today & heard the "pop" noise when releasing. Problem is I don't know what I did. :)

the wrist "stops" as the motion of the hand abruptly changes direction from forwards to outwards/upwards. ideally, your elbow extension leads the disc in the forward direction (and not to the right). if your hand continues moving, its natural follow through will be up and to the right.

the snapping sound doesn't really imply anything as with 1 style of throwing it generally indicates a good rip whereas with another style it indicates a weak grip.