I have had two pro plastic drivers(Orion LS and Teebird-L) and both of them became utterly flippy very fast. I was thinking that I was having a torque-over problem but I have thrown some discs designed to be understable and not had a huge problem with extreme turn over. I really started to feel like it was a disc problem when I threw my Ace on a hyzer and had it flip up and fly straight, I then threw my Orion with what felt like the same exact hyzer and had it turn horribly right(RHBH). Are all pro plastic drivers so vunerable to becoming understable? Has anyone else had this type of experience?

I had a proline orc go flippy on my after 2 rounds. 175G. It was too bad because I liked the disc before it was flippy, but I don't have the money to buy 2 new orcs a week. I would have swarn it was a technique problem, but my Crush doesn't flip on me, at 170G, so I'm fairly certain it was just that disc.

The discs flight characteristics will change rather rapidly if it is any other type of plastic other than:

Discraft's Z

Innova's CE / Champion

and Gateways equiv. of Z / CE / Champ ( Sorry i forget if it's E or H (a gateway rep is needed to clarify which is which))



My home course is rocky, cactusy, and has quite a few trees. I usually don't throw anything other than Z plastic. I also have discs that have been in the bag since 2002. They seem to fly nearly the same as the day they were new.

The discs flight characteristics will change rather rapidly if it is any other type of plastic other than:

Discraft's Z

Innova's CE / Champion


and Gateways equiv. of Z / CE / Champ ( Sorry i forget if it's E or H (a gateway rep is needed to clarify which is which))



My home course is rocky, cactusy, and has quite a few trees. I usually don't throw anything other than Z plastic. I also have discs that have been in the bag since 2002. They seem to fly nearly the same as the day they were new.



The equiv is "E" and Dave gave me a few discs that were in straight urathane which is the most durable plastic ever (even better than CE) /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Thanks Matt.

My suggestion is spend the extra dollar or two or three for the premium Z plastic. That way, you don't have to worry about replacing it unless it goes <font color="blue"> SPLASH </font>

None of my DX drivers have had such a short life span. :confused:

Thanks Matt.

My suggestion is spend the extra dollar or two or three for the premium Z plastic. That way, you don't have to worry about replacing it unless it goes <font color="blue"> SPLASH </font>



Yeah I have all high end plastic in my bag except for one mid and two putters. They all hold up until you replace them with something else or they go splash like he said.

A lot of people (myself included) after having a disc for a short while, start to flip it over more than when they started. I think it is due to wear to an extent, but also can be subject to your comfort with the disc. As you get more comfortable with a disc, you might start throwing it a lot harder than when you first bought it. In doing so, those bad habits like unclean releases tend to show through. I do this a lot. I love a disc the first day, it gets flippy on the second, then it somehow magically gets "cured" when I am not throwing the p!ss out of it. It could also be that it has gone flippy, but don't discount added vigor in your throwing style since the "golden days" of the disc. Back off on it a little and it will probably fly more as it originally did. I do this with drivers all the time, it's a good litmus test as to whether I am throwing cleanly or not and what I have to practice on. Sometimes I am just throwing way too hard, probably some sort of tension release thing, and when I focus on the flight of the disc and not my emotions is when the disc starts to fly well again.

Then again, maybe I just need to see a shrink... /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I have thrown some discs designed to be understable and not had a huge problem with extreme turn over.



am curious as to which discs these were.

as for pro plastic, it is inherently squirrely in its nature as it is low air friction and does not have great structural rigidity.

personally, i've never had problems with turning over pro plastic, even after it was VERY beat. i don't like my orions until they have been tacoed a few times.

i would still wager it is related to a torque problem (especially after the thread on rocs), but exaggerated by the plastic's characteristics.

something you could try... is to tailor a throw to discs after they have become flippy, imo, that's when they are sweet.

I have thrown some discs designed to be understable and not had a huge problem with extreme turn over.



am curious as to which discs these were.



as for pro plastic, it is inherently squirrely in its nature as it is low air friction and does not have great structural rigidity.

personally, i've never had problems with turning over pro plastic, even after it was VERY beat. i don't like my orions until they have been tacoed a few times.

i would still wager it is related to a torque problem (especially after the thread on rocs), but exaggerated by the plastic's characteristics.

something you could try... is to tailor a throw to discs after they have become flippy, imo, that's when they are sweet.



All I know is that the only Pro plastic disc I have even been able to throw without it flipping over is the Firebird.
It may be a torque problem but I doubt it because they get up on a good Max D line but just don't come back. :confused: :confused:

I have thrown some discs designed to be understable and not had a huge problem with extreme turn over.



am curious as to which discs these were.




I thought the Ace was supposed to be fairly easy to turn over. I also threw a 160g Arch Angel and had no problem.

How would I go about tailoring my throw to my more understable discs? I have been playing four rounds a day(12 hole course) and throwing my Orion on almost every hole along with numerous other drivers. More and more frequently the Orion turns right hard no matter what angle I throw it on. It may be that I am treating this disc differently then others but if so it is unintentional. :confused: :confused:

In order to creat a torque over problem how drastic does the shoulder drop/back arch have to be? It seems like I would notice my body position being different.

All I know is that the only Pro plastic disc I have even been able to throw without it flipping over is the Firebird.
It may be a torque problem but I doubt it because they get up on a good Max D line but just don't come back. :confused: :confused:



you have more arm than most scooter :P
i would say that most of the pro discs are not the most stable molds that innova has to offer. am guessing if the firebird were an FX instead of an FL it would be a bit more stable.

seems like the "true stability" of discs nowadays are only really determined by the guys who throw 500ish due to the incredibly high cruise speed.
examples:
for someone with 300' of power:
a champion orc is more overstable than a champion teebird
a z flick is more overstable than a z X2
for someone with 500' of power:
a champion teebird is more stable than a champion orc
a z X2 is more stable than a z flick

in the long run, a lot of it boils down to the nature of the mold rather than the disc speed, but for most players, the speed difference compensates.

All I know is that the only Pro plastic disc I have even been able to throw without it flipping over is the Firebird.
It may be a torque problem but I doubt it because they get up on a good Max D line but just don't come back. :confused: :confused:



you have more arm than most scooter :P
i would say that most of the pro discs are not the most stable molds that innova has to offer. am guessing if the firebird were an FX instead of an FL it would be a bit more stable.

seems like the "true stability" of discs nowadays are only really determined by the guys who throw 500ish due to the incredibly high cruise speed.
examples:
for someone with 300' of power:
a champion orc is more overstable than a champion teebird
a z flick is more overstable than a z X2
for someone with 500' of power:
a champion teebird is more stable than a champion orc
a z X2 is more stable than a z flick

in the long run, a lot of it boils down to the nature of the mold rather than the disc speed, but for most players, the speed difference compensates.


Yeah it just seems like they get some air friction and can't hold up. Oh well that's why I throw gateway. :D

hah I was thinking it was just me...

Earlier in the season I picked up a couple of pro-line starfires. At first they were great, but became very flippy after a few rounds.

Lost my champ Orc and pulled out a new pro-line Orc. This disc is the shiznit! It replaced my starfires, as it seemed way more controlable and *very* stable. However after a couple of good whacks off trees it's gone pretty flippy as well. The first few times out, this disc was very predictable and controlable, and shaved strokes off my game, now it's adding them back because I never know what it's going to do.

Could be me and poor technique. But I had my best round ever, the first time I used this disc, now back to usual.

I was thinking the pro-line would be able to take more abuse than that, but now I'm thinking maybe not.

hah I was thinking it was just me...

Earlier in the season I picked up a couple of pro-line starfires. At first they were great, but became very flippy after a few rounds.

Lost my champ Orc and pulled out a new pro-line Orc. This disc is the shiznit! It replaced my starfires, as it seemed way more controlable and *very* stable. However after a couple of good whacks off trees it's gone pretty flippy as well. The first few times out, this disc was very predictable and controlable, and shaved strokes off my game, now it's adding them back because I never know what it's going to do.

Could be me and poor technique. But I had my best round ever, the first time I used this disc, now back to usual.

I was thinking the pro-line would be able to take more abuse than that, but now I'm thinking maybe not.



I think it would be better to buy a disc in DX plastic and just tune it as it started to beat up because the Pro plastic doesn't tune well. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I still can't figure if its the pro discs or just me and it seems like a few other people are having the same problem. I guess I will keep my Orion in the bag for now and keep trying. :p

I have had two pro plastic drivers(Orion LS and Teebird-L) and both of them became utterly flippy very fast.



asimo, throw a Champion Viking if you want an Orion in more durable plastic.

I have had two pro plastic drivers(Orion LS and Teebird-L) and both of them became utterly flippy very fast.



asimo, throw a Champion Viking if you want an Orion in more durable plastic.



cool! thanks! :cool:

I can almost throw 500 and an X2 is nowhere near as stable as a flick. It might just be me though.

With my limited expiriences, it seems as if Pro plastic has a great resistance to chunks coming off and nicks/scratches, but lack any kind of structural strength...I agree with Scooter and say just throw S/D/DX type discs and break them in to preference. Also, Gateway's "H" plastic (Pro or X equivilent) seems to be a little better in taking abuse and still grips/glides about the same.

I had an E Sabre that was flippy, but had a few "older cheap plastic" whatever that would be G1i's that were straight as an arrow with just the tiniest amount of fade at the end.
Oh yeah, my drives are about 300

Or, just dont hit any trees. ;)

The only two discs I've ever seen have an immediate, large change in flight after hitting something are my first run Pro Teebird and my early Elite XTra (which turned into a amazing disc after one big tree hit). I agree that the newer pro discs do break in fairly quickly, but I haven't experienced them going from stable to flippy overnight. I find that they get into their broken in stage quickly but stay that way for a long time. If you accept how they are after they've broken in they can be really good, stable discs. All you have to do is figure out how much hyzer they need and they seem to glide forever without turning over.