So how crappy do you have to shoot to get one thrown out??

I'm at 958 now, and I have an 870 still counted.

Well, for you, the standard deviation of your ratings is 32.87
2.5 X 32.87 = 82.16.
Your average rating is 950.31.
So, ratings below 868 will be dropped.

You should have missed one more putt in that 870 rated round and it would have been dropped. :D:eek: :p

Then your rating might have risen 1/2 a ratings point.

how is standard deviation figured?

Well, the experts here might be able to answer my guess as to why 2 of my rounds weren't included:

http://www.pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=4819

I played in MA-3 (Recreational) at this event, and it was my first event. Was the reason that the rounds weren't included that not enough rated players played the same configuration as me? Here are the possible configurations played:

Beauty - Goliath (open through am1 I believe)
Beast - Beauty (Am-2 through Am-3 and juniors)
Beauty - Beauty (One card of women, which was all Am Women)

The conditions were considerably worse during the second round, so the second round scores don't exactly mirror the first round's.

I do not know for sure, but Chuck or your TD might know. It looks like you are right in your guess - you did not have enough propogators playing your layout.

The "Course Statistics" (link at top of page) do not make mention of the Beauty, Beast of Goliath layouts, so it it is hard to tell.

Well you have to figure out the varience first, and then you take the square root of the varience.

(fmsquared) - n*meansquared/ number of observations.

the stupid thing is that the ratings criteria changes way too often!! which in turn will produce a variance in ratings with equivalent rounds!! ridiculous!! :confused:

how is standard deviation figured?




Good ?

I did go up 2 points!

I know how they do it,

Eny meny miny mo okay take this round. eny meny miny mo kick this one out.

sound like the same way you putt :o:D

anytime you want to wager some $$ chinger you let me know. I will even give you some strokes and on your home course. so what do you say?





that's what I thought so ZIP your PIE hole so when I see you this weekend I dont have to do it for you.

I have a 945 round that dropped, nice!

If anyone would like to see a different system then get with me and we will see what is feasable. As I see it alot of golfers are binded to the PDGA because of ratings. I would like to make a different rating system that applies to all local and sanctioned events. It will not be associated with the PDGA but will involve all. PDGA member or not. Please pm me or send email to [email protected]

Funny how I have shot below 875 ONCE in the last year, with 12 out of those 16 rounds being above 900 and 10 of those 12 were above 925, AND only my one round below 800 was dropped!

The 8 rounds I played as an intermediate player and could barely break 850 hold more weight then the 16 most current rounds where I shot better. Those 8 were all between 825 and 875. Now that is some FUNNY math.

I only had one round dropped out of 38. I thought we dropped our worst round per 15 or something. Not any more?

the ratings calculations are changed from week to week. go figure

Dont worry. I am consulting on a new an improved ratings system :D

Can anyone smell what United Disc Golf is cooking???

thanks Pimp when you figure it out can you share with the PDGA :D

I only had one round dropped out of 38. I thought we dropped our worst round per 15 or something. Not any more?



Todd...Dropped rounds are now those under 2.5 times the standard deviation. I'll let a math-head interpret...

Todd...Dropped rounds are now those under 2.5 times the standard deviation. I'll let a math-head interpret...



It means that if you are quickly improving and shooting great round now but bad rounds 6 months ago then you wont have any freakin rounds dropped because your deviation will be so ****@ high that you would have to play opposite handed to get any rounds dropped and If you are a consistant pro your rating will never chance because your deviation is so freakin low that ALL your semi bad rounds are dropped. Thats what it ends up meaning.

Other then that its pretty much your standard variance from your average to your low score an average to your high school and then times it by 2.5. This is going to create even more ratings lag in am for the reasons I just stated above :eek: :mad:

I meant someone who cares about ratings and understands math. Not someone who has stated they don't care about ratings (but they really do).

I explained it pretty well though didnt I??? Thats exactly what is happening :mad:

I had 60 rounds and only 1 was dropped.

Dont worry. I am consulting on a new an improved ratings system :D

Can anyone smell what United Disc Golf is cooking???



Yes he is. :DI am including everyone with input. :cool:

Pimp,

There is no rating formula that will accurately predict what a rapidly improving player's rating will be for their next tourney. That seems to be what you want.

The ratings work very well if you have a stable game. When you hit a plateau, see if your rating is close.

deleted, I understand now.

who said it had to be over 100?

Pimp,

There is no rating formula that will accurately predict what a rapidly improving player's rating will be for their next tourney. That seems to be what you want.



And if that's the case, why play the event?

Ratings are nice barometers of game, but the order of finish at an event is more important.

I had 60 rounds and only 1 was dropped.



I have 68 rounds and only 1 was dropped. This wont stop sandbagging it will just hide it because all the good players will have crappy ratings because their standard deviation is so high because of all the good rounds they have been shooting lately so they wont be able to drop ANY rounds so they will be playing at like a 965 level but be rated 949 so it wont look like they are bagging but they really are SUPER BAGGERS.

If you take my most recent 30 rounds (some are not in this update) and drop the low 10 percent I would be rated 960 but the PDGA says im only a 946 because they are including rounds from 12 months ago and are also using standard deviation instead of the low 10 percent. I mean seriously do you know anyone who plays at or above their rating 100% of the time. Everyone has freak bad rounds. Why not drop the low 10 and use the most recent 30 rounds. If it takes going back 5 years to get thirty then so be it that persons rating really doesnt matter anyway because they dont play that much.

If the PDGA would just take suggestions and do it the way the players want it done the ratings would work alot better but It doesnt seem like they want to listen.

Playing at a level of 960 but the PDGA says im playing at 946 Maybe I should stay am for a couple more years since my rating is so low :D

I actually do favor a 2.5 standard devation formula for dropping ratings, however I feel there should be some added weight for the most recent rounds.

That would at least sort of keep up with improving players statistics. As of now, someone who played a tournament their second week of ever playing has those rounds holding the same weight as rounds played 18 months later after practicing 5 days a week. It just doesn't make sense to me.

If the PDGA would just take suggestions and do it the way the players want it done the ratings would work alot better but It doesnt seem like they want to listen.


That is exactly what the PDGA does! :eek:

There is this player, and he likes math and stuff. And he steps up and helps develop things like the whole ratings concept. And then he takes it to the BOD and convinces them that all that goofy math makes sense and will work.

His name is Chuck Kennedy. :) There are other players that actually step up and help him out a lot. And I mean "a lot" a lot. So it's a bunch of players making suggestions and helping out, and they are getting listened to.

Pimp,

There is no rating formula that will accurately predict what a rapidly improving player's rating will be for their next tourney. That seems to be what you want.

The ratings work very well if you have a stable game. When you hit a plateau, see if your rating is close.




Dont assume things. I want a ratings system that is update rapidly so that it accurately shows what level a person is playing at. Not what they will be playing at in the future. I dont know where you got that from. I want it to be as up to date and accurate as possible and its not even close. They update it every 2 months and even when they do that it doesnt even have all the rounds in it so its lacking there. I know I know not the PDGAs fault. Understandable but why not just input all the rounds as they come in and only use the most recent 30 and drop the low 10 percent. As one new one comes in the oldest one gets kicked out. That way its a real time display of how a person is playing at that point in time. Not how he will play in the future but how he has been playing up untill his most recent rated round. Is that too much to ask. If you take my last 30 rounds and drop the low 3 I would be rated 960 without double weighting ANYTHING but since we are going back 12 months and using this stupid standard deviation (which hurts players who are rapidly improving because their hots rounds make them have a higher deviation so that its next to impossible for them to get a round dropped) the PDGA says im only a 946 player. I mean do you think im a 946 player??? Do you think that is accurate??? Do you really think that Matt Hall has become a worse player since the last update when he has taken 3rd in a SuperTour and won a SuperTour and Won Mid Nationals since the last update??? I mean give me a freakin break.

Do you not understand what I am saying???

Pimp,

There is no rating formula that will accurately predict what a rapidly improving player's rating will be for their next tourney. That seems to be what you want.

The ratings work very well if you have a stable game. When you hit a plateau, see if your rating is close.



I swear to god this guy is on their payroll. You just seam to bat for the PDGA in all situations. Totally destrubing. Follow blindly.......shhhhh.......just follow blindly..........cha-ching!

Dont let the cat out of the bag pimp. With hold what you want till WE make it.

That is exactly what the PDGA does!

There is this player, and he likes math and stuff. And he steps up and helps develop things like the whole ratings concept. And then he takes it to the BOD and convinces them that all that goofy math makes sense and will work.

His name is Chuck Kennedy. There are other players that actually step up and help him out a lot. And I mean "a lot" a lot. So it's a bunch of players making suggestions and helping out, and they are getting listened to.



Dont you mean people who were elected to those positions. Im talking about the PDGA as a whole not just a few guys who think they have good ideas.

Dont let the cat out of the bag pimp. With hold what you want till WE make it.




It doesnt matter. They will only listen to the great Chuck Kennedy when it comes to ratings. I just think it will be hillarious when everyone likes OUR system better then the PDGAs system :D

The masses are working together on this one so you might not know who your debating with.

We = a very large group of people made from members, non members, and anyone with a vision of improving the current
system and getting away from (only sanctioned yearly
calculations.)

Credit will be included on the site for everyone that helps and produces input as what they would like to see. This will be a system that no one else has even contimplated for sure.

Without player input, the doubling of the most recent rounds would not have happened. So "they" aren't just changing it as "they" see fit.

I do agree that ratings should be updated more frequently, but, again, a big part of the problem is TD's not getting reports in. I'm still missing a result from mid-June.

Question for this *** group (which sounds alot like Chuck's DGU concept): Do either of you (or any of your helpers) have a background in math and statistics?

I do agree that ratings should be updated more frequently, but, again, a big part of the problem is TD's not getting reports in. I'm still missing a result from mid-June.



You can fill the report out online for god sakes. Or fax it in. Why cant they fill it out at the tournament and on the way home stop at Fed Ex Kinkos and fax it in???

The PDGA needs to start punishing TDs (no sanctioning or lower sanctioning the next year) for not fulfilling their requirements. Some TDs take it seriously and some do it just to make some money.

How hard is it to fill out a TD report. Can anyone Email me one of give me a link to one so I can see why these guys arent filling them out. I agree with you. I think they should all get a week to have them in and if they dont get them in (barring anything accidental or unavoidable) then they shouldnt be able to sanction a tournament for 6 months even if they already have one scheduled.

United Disc Golf has been purshased and is own by yours truely! :D

I will be installing server tonight to get this underway. I will try to get the board up asap so we can have a place to exchange ideas away from the clan. :o

How did you purchase it??? Or did you just start it???

Can you smell what United Disc Golf is cooking???

it takes about 30 min. to fill out the TD report, an hour if you don't have all your math figured out.

OVerall, it is very simple

The PDGA needs to start punishing TDs (no sanctioning or lower sanctioning the next year) for not fulfilling their requirements. Some TDs take it seriously and some do it just to make some money.



I agree. The Minnesota Majestic, an "A-tier", back in late May, was not included in my, or anyone else that played in the tournaments rating. How did this not get included. It is an A tier for pete's sake.

My take on TD's slackness on filing their reports is that they are among the >90% of PDGA membership that do not follow their ratings like a hawk. They do not care if their ratings lag reality by 6 months and probably have that perception of the general DG playing population.

And...they are correct. There are, what, 15-20 people here on the boards voicing any sort of complaint? That is a small number compared to the 8,000+ players out there. My guess is that most people do not know the ratings of their 3 best DG friends and that most people are totally fine with how ratings are done.

Just a little perspective from where I sit.....

it takes about 30 min. to fill out the TD report, an hour if you don't have all your math figured out.

OVerall, it is very simple



So basically the ones that dont get turned in are because the TD is a lazy sack of horse manure???

Don't your fingers hurt?

Nah man I type all day :D

You have mail :DThe list is together and growing strong. Thanks to all that want to help take this on and promote a world wide dynamic rating system.

well, when I ran a tournament, I was in school and had time to sit down and go through it, and I had it in that night.

But basically, yes, it is very simple. The PDGA makes it very easy to get it in to them, either by mail or email.

The live scoring takes like 3 min. and no one should ever have an excuse not to get scores up

United Disc Golf has been purshased and is own by yours truely!




BTW, it's truly, not truely. :)

Let me know what i can do to help U.D.G.

give me your email! I will add you to the list. I think you will be suprised at the names we have. ;)

Done.....PM

We are rolling 21 strong now. Who else?

UNITED WE STAND!

You should get the PDGA mailing list and Email them all :D

United Disc Golf :D

No thats cheating. We are building it so THEY will come. This service will be to shweet not to. It incorporates EVERYONE.

Hey inner circle..... :p

Hey I do need a recruiter though. Pimp?

Im in :D

1. Develop an algorithm for computing player ratings.
2. Design and develop a simple relational database or an object-oriented database to hold and query your player data (rounds, courses, scores, dates, etc.).
3. Design and develop a web-based user interface to register and track users, enter and display dynamic results, and generate reports in real-time.
4. Implement and test your system.
5. Roll out your system, and then trouble-shoot and refine your system.
6. Market your system.
7. Get user buy-in to your system.
8. Finally, sell your system.

This is a problem and solution that any second year CS student could knock out in a very short time (at least steps 1-5). In fact, it would make a great semester-long group project. If I had the inclination, I could whip up a beta version and go live in about a week (I have neither the inclination nor the time).

It�s not rocket science. It�s some very simple math and Web application development. The real key, and the one I would be interested in hearing your marketing/business plan for, is how do you plan on converting the masses to your system?

Your system will still require a large number of tournaments and players to use your system instead of the legacy PDGA ratings system. Basically, you will have to convince either the PDGA to abandon their system and adopt (and purchase) your system, or convince a very large number of TDs and tournament players to drop the PDGA and come over to your system.

With your adversarial and antagonistic approach to the PDGA, I wouldn�t bet on them working with you on this one.

But I�m onboard as to what you�re trying to accomplish as far as easy-to-use dynamic player ratings. Player ratings should be computed in real-time. I think that the PDGA is ideally positioned to transition to this if 1) they determine that their membership demands it, and 2) they simply make a decision to do so. I believe it�s the next logical and inevitable evolution in our ratings structure.

The Ratings Committe has stated over and over and over again that they do want to update the ratings too frequently.

What possible reason could they have for that???

Well, they have also stated that over and over and over: they want people to pre-register for tournaments and make plans and know what division they will get to play when they make those plans.

"United Disc Golf"? :confused:

Couldn't you come up with your own name instead of using a cheap ripoff of the already existing Disc Golf United, which is trying to do something similar by establishing a universal handicapping system to promote handicap play?

I like your attitude but you need to open your box just a little. If you would like me to add you to the list I could use a savvy guy like yourself. You know, us burger flippers can't do it alone. :oThat was an inside joke!!!!!!!!!!! Grow some skin people.

Can you do something like promote something good instead of bashing every idea that strays from your Daddy. The PDGA. :o

I like your attitude but you need to open your box just a little. If you would like me to add you to the list I could use a savvy guy like yourself. You know, us burger flippers can't do it alone. :oThat was an inside joke!!!!!!!!!!! Grow some skin people.



Good grief! Where is the eye rolling Graemlin?

Ermmmm, you geniuses are forgetting one fairly important thing, and Rooster touched on it above: WHERE ARE YOU GOING TO GET YOUR DATA? :p :p :p

Get back to me when your system is even CLOSE to producing reasonable ratings. That should be right around never. :eek:

http://www.tetongravity.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif















http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/images/smilies/the_finger.gif

Can you do something like promote something good instead of bashing every idea that strays from your Daddy. The PDGA.



**** Rhett. Your grand kids are prolly going to feel the sting from that one :eek:

The data is easy. Just create a web crawler app that pulls the current scores from the tournaments posted on the pdga site. You can even figure your own round ratings and such that way as well. The data is there is how much you want to code to get it.

I aint that motivated. I'd rather spend that time playing disc golf anyway. Good luck with the project though.

Can you do something like promote something good instead of bashing every idea that strays from your Daddy. The PDGA.



**** Rhett. Your grand kids are prolly going to feel the sting from that one :eek:


Way to dodge the issue.

The data is easy. Just create a web crawler app that pulls the current scores from the tournaments posted on the pdga site. You can even figure your own round ratings and such that way as well. The data is there is how much you want to code to get it.

I aint that motivated. I'd rather spend that time playing disc golf anyway. Good luck with the project though.



Classic. :D

1) These guys are talking REAL TIME ratings. Like within a day or two after the event. We all know that results are posted to the PDGA site only after they are submitted and processed.

2) If you really believe the results pages contain enough data to create a meaningful ratings system, well, you must have a gift.

3) It's easy enough for the PDGA to restrict results access to members only and also take measures to prevent crawler bots.

Nice answer though. :eek:

Way to dodge the issue.



You mean the issue that the new ratings system is no where near working how it is supposed to work and the fact that almost ALL players who have played well above their rating this year either went up a couple points stayed the same or went DOWN. Sounds like thats the issue at hand here and your defending the PDGA and that issue just because thats what you do. If you really look at it you will realize that this new ratings tweak was extremely bad and now the ratings promote bagging which is exactly the opposite of what they were supposed to do.

Way to dodge the issue.



You mean the issue that the new ratings system is no where near working how it is supposed to work and the fact that almost ALL players who have played well above their rating this year either went up a couple points stayed the same or went DOWN. Sounds like thats the issue at hand here and your defending the PDGA and that issue just because thats what you do. If you really look at it you will realize that this new ratings tweak was extremely bad and now the ratings promote bagging which is exactly the opposite of what they were supposed to do.


Maybe you should figure out what the heck you were quoting before you go spouting off.

Hey Rhett, whos your daddy. :D

The data is easy. Just create a web crawler app that pulls the current scores from the tournaments posted on the pdga site. You can even figure your own round ratings and such that way as well. The data is there is how much you want to code to get it.

I aint that motivated. I'd rather spend that time playing disc golf anyway. Good luck with the project though.



Classic. :D

1) These guys are talking REAL TIME ratings. Like within a day or two after the event. We all know that results are posted to the PDGA site only after they are submitted and processed.

2) If you really believe the results pages contain enough data to create a meaningful ratings system, well, you must have a gift.

3) It's easy enough for the PDGA to restrict results access to members only and also take measures to prevent crawler bots.

Nice answer though. :eek:



My point was you can backfill the history up to now and prove the system works plus you can ask any td's to turn in data and those that dont you can still get it.

1. I agree you cant go real time unless the TD's are turning it in. Thats more about the players pressuring the TD to also turn it in to whatever system you devise.

2. The pages contain the exact scores for the rounds played in any PDGA event back several years. Thats the raw data, anything else can be calculated from that. The point there is the raw data is there and its up to whoever makes the system to devise their ratings system. If your saying thats not enough then I hate to tell ya but nothing you ask for from a TD real time or not is going to help either.

3. So you make sure you are a member and you can see the data. Much as they wanted as long as you can view the page with the scores you can get them. Just depends on how motivated you are, because no matter how tricky they get if you can see it, you can get it. Short of them no longer posting results then its going to be there and you know what not posting results woudl cause.

I realize they want real time, but that wasnt a requirement when the topic started, accurate ratings was the main issue. Getting the data, posting your method, and using the old data to prove your method works and is accurate is possible. Getting people to use it, well there's your real issue now isnt it?

Way to dodge the issue.



almost ALL players who have played well above their rating this year either went up a couple points stayed the same or went DOWN.



Looks like you went up FOUR points and got to drop a round, be happy. All of my rounds counted. I have been playing above my rating recently also but my formerly excluded rounds I feel caused me to drop two points.
My buddy Scott went up 9 points not only because his most recent rounds were doubled but because his formerly excluded rounds were not that bad in comparison to all others.
Just keep playing well and your rating will follow. If you went on a bad streak and played 850 golf for four events would you want your current rating to be 850?

Not all players play the same courses or even the same teepads at an event. Sometimes one course is windy in the afternoon but not in the morning, and different people play it at different times of day. I don't see that critical info posted with the results.

If only the scores are there, that's only part of the raw data.

Howza 'bout grunion joins the PDGA and then he and pimp put their ratings energies into helping the ratings committee process results? That way the ratings can continue to come out on time, and maybe either those two will get a better understanding of the process and/or their ideas will be heard by the decision makers of the ratings process?

1. I agree you cant go real time unless the TD's are turning it in. Thats more about the players pressuring the TD to also turn it in to whatever system you devise.

2. The pages contain the exact scores for the rounds played in any PDGA event back several years. Thats the raw data, anything else can be calculated from that. The point there is the raw data is there and its up to whoever makes the system to devise their ratings system. If your saying thats not enough then I hate to tell ya but nothing you ask for from a TD real time or not is going to help either.

3. So you make sure you are a member and you can see the data. Much as they wanted as long as you can view the page with the scores you can get them. Just depends on how motivated you are, because no matter how tricky they get if you can see it, you can get it. Short of them no longer posting results then its going to be there and you know what not posting results woudl cause.




1. If they can't get ALL the TDs to turn the ratings in to THEIR system in near real time, then they will never have what they call accurate ratings. And they certainly won't have them in real time. Oh and they WON'T get TDs to turn in results to THEIR system, not in any large numbers.

2. In order to get what these geniuses are calling ACCURATE ratings, you must know something about the course being played and which divisions played which layout. That information is obviously not available online. Scores alone across all divisions is simply not enough.

3. There are many reasonably good methods for keeping out crawlers.

I'm not going to debate the fine points. You get the last word if you reply. The macro view is that these guys don't have a prayer. :D:eek: :p

If you went on a bad streak and played 850 golf for four events would you want your current rating to be 850?



YES I WOULD!!! That would be an accurate display of my skill at that point in time. Doesnt anyone get that??? If my last 30 rounds land me at a 910 rating then thats how I am playing. I could play intermediate again. I would NEVER do that but could if I chose to. If my last 30 rounds land me at 980 then great I have been playing well and deserve that rating. Why do you think that the PGA only uses the most recent 20 rounds to determine a persons handicap??? No matter how far they have to go back for the 20 rounds they use the most recent 20. Thats because that is as close to an accurate display of what that persons skill level is at that particular point in time. It eliminates sandbagging because the ratings/handicap is current and only uses the players most recent rounds. Who says the rating should stay the same to favor the player. Everyone on here so far is like your just mad becaue this doesnt favor the player blah blah blah (when really these guys are blind and have no clue). So why not have the ratings fluctuate up and down to show an accurate discription of skill level at a certain point in time??? If I am playing in the 940s I want my rating to show that. Im im playing in the 990s I want it to show that. Im inplaying in the 880s ( not likely ) I want it to show that too. I dont want to be playing in the mid 960s like I am right now and have my rating show that im playing 946 golf. I dont want to be playing 946 golf and have my rating show that im playing mid 960s golf either. I want it to show what I have been doing lately. Not a compilation of what I have done over the past 12 months. I want to know how I have been playing in the past month and a half. Since I play almost 20 rated rounds a month. I want it to go up and down if thats how im playing. I want it to go up and up and up if thats how im playing. I want it to go down down down if thats how Im playing.

I just want the ratings to do what they are supposed to do. Stop sandbagging and tell me what skill level I am playing at every time they are updated. And right now they are not doing either. They are actually helping people sandbag and making it possible for them to sandbag even longer and also they are telling people that are improving that they are playing worse then they really are and telling people who are good that are playing poorly that they are playing better then they really are.

My feelings are. If your going to do something. Do it well or dont do it at all. And as of right now I would rather not have a rating then have one that doesnt tell me what skill level I am playing at.

I'm just relieved that they caught the inflated ratings bubble before it got too big. Now players can start from their real ratings and not those inflated ego boosting ones we had before. :D :D:cool:

If you went on a bad streak and played 850 golf for four events would you want your current rating to be 850?



YES I WOULD!!! That would be an accurate display of my skill at that point in time. Doesnt anyone get that??? If my last 30 rounds land me at a 910 rating then thats how I am playing. I could play intermediate again. I would NEVER do that but could if I chose to. If my last 30 rounds land me at 980 then great I have been playing well and deserve that rating. Why do you think that the PGA only uses the most recent 20 rounds to determine a persons handicap??? No matter how far they have to go back for the 20 rounds they use the most recent 20. Thats because that is as close to an accurate display of what that persons skill level is at that particular point in time. It eliminates sandbagging because the ratings/handicap is current and only uses the players most recent rounds. Who says the rating should stay the same to favor the player. Everyone on here so far is like your just mad becaue this doesnt favor the player blah blah blah (when really these guys are blind and have no clue). So why not have the ratings fluctuate up and down to show an accurate discription of skill level at a certain point in time??? If I am playing in the 940s I want my rating to show that. Im im playing in the 990s I want it to show that. Im inplaying in the 880s ( not likely ) I want it to show that too. I dont want to be playing in the mid 960s like I am right now and have my rating show that im playing 946 golf. I dont want to be playing 946 golf and have my rating show that im playing mid 960s golf either. I want it to show what I have been doing lately. Not a compilation of what I have done over the past 12 months. I want to know how I have been playing in the past month and a half. Since I play almost 20 rated rounds a month. I want it to go up and down if thats how im playing. I want it to go up and up and up if thats how im playing. I want it to go down down down if thats how Im playing.

I just want the ratings to do what they are supposed to do. Stop sandbagging and tell me what skill level I am playing at every time they are updated. And right now they are not doing either. They are actually helping people sandbag and making it possible for them to sandbag even longer and also they are telling people that are improving that they are playing worse then they really are and telling people who are good that are playing poorly that they are playing better then they really are.

My feelings are. If your going to do something. Do it well or dont do it at all. And as of right now I would rather not have a rating then have one that doesnt tell me what skill level I am playing at.



I applaud your honesty and I'm starting to see your point of view with the instant "RIGHT NOW" rating. If we can put a man on the moon, we should be able to do that. Don't you think that system could be manipulated also where a longtime 940+ rated player could bag for a while then play AM2 with his "Right Now" rating of 880?

So long as we are only rating tournament rounds there would never be a reason for a 940 rated player to bag. He is almost always in the prizes at 940. He has to donate at a lot of tournaments to get down to 914. Intermediate payouts are flatter and deeper. And then when he wins he is right back in Advanced.

I applaud your honesty and I'm starting to see your point of view with the instant "RIGHT NOW" rating. If we can put a man on the moon, we should be able to do that. Don't you think that system could be manipulated also where a longtime 940+ rated player could bag for a while then play AM2 with his "Right Now" rating of 880?



Let him!!! Why would you ever want to do that. Atleast then people would have to WORK to sandbag. Right now the PDGA is giving you a free longer term pass to sandbag with the new ratings system.

ok...ok...I'm done. Good luck in your convincing efforts.

I dont want to be playing 946 golf and have my rating show that im playing mid 960s golf either. I want it to show what I have been doing lately. Not a compilation of what I have done over the past 12 months.



Alright, I did it for you (straight average - no rounds dropped):
Last 12 months: 939
Last 20 rounds: 947
Last 1.5 months: 941

Yahoo!!! you gained 2 points doing it your way!! That is 1 stroke every 5 rounds. You should be proud!

You are so full of hot air its beyond amuzing.


I want to know how I have been playing in the past month and a half. Since I play almost 20 rated rounds a month. I want it to go up and down if thats how im playing. I want it to go up and up and up if thats how im playing. I want it to go down down down if thats how Im playing.



What you want to show the world is that you had a really good tournament (DGLO) and want the ratings to boast for you about how good you really are....when the ratings (no matter how you cut them up) tell a different story.

Not all players play the same courses or even the same teepads at an event. Sometimes one course is windy in the afternoon but not in the morning, and different people play it at different times of day. I don't see that critical info posted with the results.

If only the scores are there, that's only part of the raw data.

Howza 'bout grunion joins the PDGA and then he and pimp put their ratings energies into helping the ratings committee process results? That way the ratings can continue to come out on time, and maybe either those two will get a better understanding of the process and/or their ideas will be heard by the decision makers of the ratings process?

Alright, I did it for you (straight average - no rounds dropped):
Last 12 months: 939
Last 20 rounds: 947
Last 1.5 months: 941

Yahoo!!! you gained 2 points doing it your way!! That is 1 stroke every 5 rounds. You should be proud!

You are so full of hot air its beyond amuzing.



You dont get it. Im dont trying to explain it to a [I'm a potty-mouth!] like you. The ratings should display what skill level a players is at the exact time the ratings are updated ( or as close to as possible ) which is why you would include the last 30 or 20 (like the PGA does) rounds and thats it. And update it real time. As soon as new rounds are scored then they go into your rating and the old ones get booted out. Not lets save up all your 80 rounds from the last 12 months so that they will either keep your rating high or bring it down. Lets update them as you play so that people cant sandbag and everyone knows where they are at. Its not about making me look good or bad as I said earlier. Its about ratings doing what they are meant to do which is prevent sandbagging and give you a accurate discription of your skill level. And right now its promoting the first and doing a horrible inaccurate job of the second. Like I said I dont care if im shooting 1020 or 820 golf I just want my freakin rating to show what is it that im shooting. If im shooting crappy I want it to show that if Im shooting well I want it to show that too. You are so ignorant and full of the I HATE PIMP mentality it sickens me. Take a step back and look at the freakin situation. The rating dont do either of the things they are supposed to do so we might as well not have them at all beacause right now they arent doing their job. Man I wish they had made this change a while ago when I was 912 and shooting 930 golf. Then I could have stayed in Am2 for a hell of a long time and just purely dominated that division within PDGA rules :eek:

Just face the facts. Your wrong and now you are just attacking me personally and trying to dig yourself out of a hole. Get a life pal. I dont care what my rating says. My record speaks for itself whether I am 946 rated or 900 rated.

Dont hate the player, Hate the game :D

Alright, I did it for you (straight average - no rounds dropped):
Last 12 months: 939
Last 20 rounds: 947
Last 1.5 months: 941

Yahoo!!! you gained 2 points doing it your way!! That is 1 stroke every 5 rounds. You should be proud!

You are so full of hot air its beyond amuzing.



You dont get it. Im dont trying to explain it to a [I'm a potty-mouth!] like you. The ratings should display what skill level a players is at the exact time the ratings are updated ( or as close to as possible ) which is why you would include the last 30 or 20 (like the PGA does) rounds and thats it. And update it real time. As soon as new rounds are scored then they go into your rating and the old ones get booted out. Not lets save up all your 80 rounds from the last 12 months so that they will either keep your rating high or bring it down. Lets update them as you play so that people cant sandbag and everyone knows where they are at. Its not about making me look good or bad as I said earlier. Its about ratings doing what they are meant to do which is prevent sandbagging and give you a accurate discription of your skill level. And right now its promoting the first and doing a horrible inaccurate job of the second. Like I said I dont care if im shooting 1020 or 820 golf I just want my freakin rating to show what is it that im shooting. If im shooting crappy I want it to show that if Im shooting well I want it to show that too. You are so ignorant and full of the I HATE PIMP mentality it sickens me. Take a step back and look at the freakin situation. The rating dont do either of the things they are supposed to do so we might as well not have them at all beacause right now they arent doing their job. Man I wish they had made this change a while ago when I was 912 and shooting 930 golf. Then I could have stayed in Am2 for a hell of a long time and just purely dominated that division within PDGA rules :eek:

Just face the facts. Your wrong and now you are just attacking me personally and trying to dig yourself out of a hole. Get a life pal. I dont care what my rating says. My record speaks for itself whether I am 946 rated or 900 rated.

Dont hate the player, Hate the game :D



holy chit Pimp has a point. :o:o

I want to know how I have been playing in the past month and a half. Since I play almost 20 rated rounds a month. I want it to go up and down if thats how im playing. I want it to go up and up and up if thats how im playing. I want it to go down down down if thats how Im playing.



Hey DiscPimply, how about if we just use your latest round as your rating? :) :p I mean what could be a better indicator of how you are playing RIGHT NOW? :D :p That's pretty much what you're asking for, right? :eek:

What a putz.

holy chit Pimp has a point. :o:o



:eek: :eek: :eek:

Hey DiscPimply, how about if we just use your latest round as your rating? I mean what could be a better indicator of how you are playing RIGHT NOW? That's pretty much what you're asking for, right?

What a putz.



That might be the most unintelligent post I have seen on this thread. Nice work you just receieved the award for biggest dumb chit on this thread.

It has to be an average of some sort but a recent one and one thats updated often. Not one that contains 12 months of play and is updated 6 times in those 12 months.

I cant believe I just graced you with a responce to that comment :mad:

By the way for those of you just reading this an not posting it. Youll notice that when I start to make a point everyone else refers to name calling. They also start making rediculous comments like the one Hank just made, because they know they are wrong and are now just trying to make me look bad :eek: :eek: :eek: :D:D:D:p :p :p

It has to be an average of some sort but a recent one and one thats updated often. Not one that contains 12 months of play and is updated 6 times in those 12 months.




Okay, how about an average of your last TWO rounds?

I'll bet even you yourself can calculate that right away after each round. Well, maybe if you have somebody help you with the calculator ON switch. :eek:

Okay, how about an average of your last TWO rounds?

I'll bet even you yourself can calculate that right away after each round. Well, maybe if you have somebody help you with the calculator ON switch.



As you can see folks. The more right I am the more out there these people getting.

The average of my last 2 rounds would be what I averaged for the last 2 rounds of the Brent Hambrick. Which when the official ratings come out will prolly be about 950 and I had a 2 stroke penalty during the 1st of those 2 rounds :D

You dont get it. Im dont trying to explain it to a [I'm a potty-mouth!] like you. The ratings should display what skill level a players is at the exact time the ratings are updated ( or as close to as possible ) which is why you would include the last 30 or 20 (like the PGA does) rounds and thats it.



OK. Got you on this point. I did that and you had a 941 rating.


And update it real time. As soon as new rounds are scored then they go into your rating and the old ones get booted out.


I agree with you on this. This would be a nice feature.
But, if you look at most players who have been playing competitively more than 3 years you would notice that by in large their ratings do not vary by more than 5-10 ratings points per year. They are consistent and so this feature would have little value to them.
In the system you propose, if they had a bad round, their rating would drop dramatically. An it would be dramatically erroneous in showing their actual skill.


Lets update them as you play so that people cant sandbag and everyone knows where they are at. Its not about making me look good or bad as I said earlier. Its about ratings doing what they are meant to do which is prevent sandbagging and give you a accurate discription of your skill level. And right now its promoting the first and doing a horrible inaccurate job of the second.


You should think before you speak. What you are proposing will actually make it much easier to sandbag. Just intentionally tank a couple of rounds when you are not going to cash in Adv and viola! you are at 914 and can play and win in Int and take home some serious loot.


Man I wish they had made this change a while ago when I was 912 and shooting 930 golf. Then I could have stayed in Am2 for a hell of a long time and just purely dominated that division within PDGA rules :eek:


And in your proposed system it sounds like you have the mentality of of taking advantage of it like I proposed (but maybe tanking so you can play Adv in the <955 exemption)



Just face the facts. Your wrong and now you are just attacking me personally and trying to dig yourself out of a hole. Get a life pal.



Pimp, I'm sorry I got on you personally. I do not normally stoop to that level. I did it because you continually trash the efforts and good will of lots of hard working people. I think I finally got tired of it.

It is clear that you are not man enough to take criticism in the way you dish it out.

Chuck has covered this in the past.

The vast majority of players in the PDGA do not get in more than 12 competitive rounds a year.

There is a small minority of players that would be left without ratings by any short-time-range averaging system.

The long range system in is the best compromise for the most players. It also adds some stability to the ratings so players have a feel for what division they should be playing in and some confidence that it won't change drastically between now and the tournament 2 months away that they want to pre-register for.

Why do people care about their player ratings? Just look at your recent rounds to see how you are doing / improving. If someone wants to sandbag to win a few discs then I say let them.

The only time I could see ratings become critical would be if you are a 1000+ rated player and you need to keep your sponsorship.

Maybe someone can ask a question that I have been pondering for the last 2 updates. Here it is when you take and double weight your most recent 8 rounds shouldn't the 2nd, 3rd or 4th round be the last round rather than the 1st. It just doesnt make any sense why the 1st round would be the most recent?

I thought they did that, if they DON'T do that then that is kind of stupid.

By the way for those of you just reading this an not posting it. Youll notice that when I start to make a point everyone else refers to name calling. They also start making rediculous comments like the one Hank just made, because they know they are wrong and are now just trying to make me look bad




Millz, your over confidence & stubbornness make it hard to consider you a useful member of this discussion.






Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

it takes about 30 min. to fill out the TD report, an hour if you don't have all your math figured out.

OVerall, it is very simple


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



So basically the ones that dont get turned in are because the TD is a lazy sack of horse manure???



I'm curious to know how you volunteer your time to help to sport (really).






I just want the ratings to do what they are supposed to do. Stop sandbagging and tell me what skill level I am playing at every time they are updated. And right now they are not doing either. They are actually helping people sandbag and making it possible for them to sandbag even longer and also they are telling people that are improving that they are playing worse then they really are and telling people who are good that are playing poorly that they are playing better then they really are.



You keep bringing up this sandbagging issue. Seriously, why do you care what division players who are far less skilled than you are playing?

Overall it appears that you will not consider what others who disagree with you have to say.


You're all up in arms because you think a change in ratings calculations has ruined the entire PDGA. Change takes time. The system is not perfect, but masking it with inaccurate ratings is not the answer. If you shoot a sub-900 round anytime in the season, it should count. Batting averages in baseball aren't calculated on the most recent few series. Free throw percentages don't just include the last few games. I wouldn't be surprised (or offended) to see changes elsewhere too. Maybe the ratings break for am2 & advanced will be changed again. The flatter am payout this year also tweaks the system to make sandbagging less attractive. Things will work out (over time), the sport is still young. If your that upset maybe you should go on strike & play no more PDGAs the rest of the year. Move down south & play Southern Nationals. But then you wouldn't get to win your third A-tier (is winning 3 A-tiers bagging?).

Not all players play the same courses or even the same teepads at an event. Sometimes one course is windy in the afternoon but not in the morning, and different people play it at different times of day. I don't see that critical info posted with the results.

If only the scores are there, that's only part of the raw data.

Howza 'bout grunion joins the PDGA and then he and pimp put their ratings energies into helping the ratings committee process results? That way the ratings can continue to come out on time, and maybe either those two will get a better understanding of the process and/or their ideas will be heard by the decision makers of the ratings process?

Millz, your over confidence & stubbornness make it hard to consider you a useful member of this discussion.



So because I believe something and am behind it 100% Im not a useful member of this discussion. The people who dont agree with me are the same way I just stand out because Im in the minority on this issue. I have been discussing and explaing my points quite calmly and if you look back I was not the one who started the name calling and out of line talk on this thread. I only retaliated and stooped to that level after someone did it to me ( I know it was a bad idea I should have just continued on how I was). Is Rhett not a useful member because he is stubborn in his beliefs or is it ok for him because he is backing the PDGA???


I'm curious to know how you volunteer your time to help to sport (really).



I help out with my local club. I donate plastic to CTPs. I help new players at my local course. I clean up my local course every time im out there. My Revolution bag is FILLED with garbage at the end of a round. Ive helped put in the Tobbagon course for AM Nationals the past 2 years in a row. I helped stuff players packs for the Memorial in AZ and the Great Lakes Open. I dont have alot of time for volunteering because I do so much playing and working. I know I know these people play and work too. The things is if I dont have the time to do something to the best of my ability im not going to do it because I believe that if your going to do something you better do it well or you might as well not do it at all. I dont believe in doing things half arsed but thats just me. I thank these guys for what they do. Atleast someone is doing something. I guess I just expect alot from people because I expect alot from myself.


You keep bringing up this sandbagging issue. Seriously, why do you care what division players who are far less skilled than you are playing?



I really dont care what people who arent as good as me are doing but alot of people do which is why I bring it up.


Overall it appears that you will not consider what others who disagree with you have to say.



Funny how you say this because thats exactly what happens to me. Everyone who disagrees with me wont even consider what I have to say when in all reality they are very good points and suggestion but people are so blinded by the I HATE PIMP mentality that they cant see my suggestions and Ideas for what they really are. They see Big DG Pimpin on the post and its like some sort of flashing neon sign goes in front of what I write and it says I HATE PIMP NOTHING HE SAYS COULD EVER BE A GOOD IDEA so they just tear it apart without even stepping back and taking a look at it.


You're all up in arms because you think a change in ratings calculations has ruined the entire PDGA. Change takes time. The system is not perfect, but masking it with inaccurate ratings is not the answer. If you shoot a sub-900 round anytime in the season, it should count. Batting averages in baseball aren't calculated on the most recent few series. Free throw percentages don't just include the last few games. I wouldn't be surprised (or offended) to see changes elsewhere too. Maybe the ratings break for am2 & advanced will be changed again. The flatter am payout this year also tweaks the system to make sandbagging less attractive. Things will work out (over time), the sport is still young. If your that upset maybe you should go on strike & play no more PDGAs the rest of the year. Move down south & play Southern Nationals. But then you wouldn't get to win your third A-tier (is winning 3 A-tiers bagging?).



I think it should count as well but I dont think that my sub 900 rounds from 3 or 4 months ago should count. Ive gotten leaps and bounds better from 3 months ago. I want my rating to tell me my skill level at the time of the update. If that means that I go down 10 points well then so be it but it goes both ways. If I go up 10 or 20 points I want to see that as well. Again maybe this is because I came from ball golf and they used your last 20 rounds and that was it. If you didnt have 20 they went off that. If you had 80 they went off the last 20 (not sure if they went back more then a year if you didnt have 20 or not). So my handicapp in ball golf was ever changing. Sometimes I would be a +10 then the next month a +7 then the next month a +11 thats just the way it went. Atleast I knew how I was playing at that point in time.

I guess we may just have to agree to disagree on this one because you guys wont take anything I say seriously and I dont think the way its done right now is very good so Im obviously not going to agree with all the people who say the system is fine when I believe it is not.

http://www.sallad.net/blog/loser-thumb.jpg

United Disc Golf has been purshased and is own by yours truely! :D

I will be installing server tonight to get this underway. I will try to get the board up asap so we can have a place to exchange ideas away from the clan. :o



This quote is from July 19, 2005.

"I will be installing server TONIGHT"

This quote is from July 19, 2005.

"I will be installing server TONIGHT"



Installing. He never said when we would be up and running.

If the PDGA didnt have such a "we rule disc golf and dont need anyone else" attitude then maybe mike would want to bring you in on what we are trying to accomplish.

I appreciate everything the PDGA does for the sport. I love the ratings (even though I complain about them sometimes). I love PDGA radio. I love the fact that we now have a National Disc Golf Center and permanent home for the PDGA. I also love the message board and the website.

I just think they need to lost the attitude and take some suggestion and do some more promoting and use the money they make every year to go out and get more players playing and to get the sport some more PR and introduce it to the mainstream and run some event along side some already major sporting events to draw attention to our sport.

Maybe all these things are being done but if they are I dont know about them havent heard about them nor have I seen anything about it.

United we stand with discs in our hand :D

I personally don't want my rating updated weekly.

What else to you have ?

PM it to me since it's not supposed to be advertised on the board.