Ok, now Im fairly new to the sport (about a year overall and about 3-4 months competetive) and there are still a few things i do not understand about different plastics.

1 - What is the difference between the old CE plastics and the new CFR? i assume the CFR are stronger than the champion discs since they are so expensive and hard to find.

2 - what is the difference between the Pro Plastic and KC pro plastic? I have to say, i like the feel of my KC pro rock much more than my Pro plastic discs.

3 - I know for innova 'first run' means unbreakable CE plastic, but were first run Discraft Elite Z plastics any more dourable than those today? i just found a first run MRV, and it feels more like a cross between the KC pro feel, and the Champion durability. could just be because its so worn out though. any ideas?

Thanks for the help
Jared

1 - What is the difference between the old CE plastics and the new CFR? i assume the CFR are stronger than the champion discs since they are so expensive and hard to find.




CE = champion edition = original super-premium blend released in fall of 2000 in 5 standard issue molds (valk, teebird-L, eagle-L, leopard, and firebird-L). the plastic varied from run to run with the first 3 blends (4 if you include the protos) being somewhat similar and the 4th run being the first substantially different type of plastic (note, the 4th run eagle/teebird/valk/leopard was actually 5th run for firebirds and this was the firebird-X mold). the yields were small on the initial runs and so they were not produced en masse and most retailers found themselves out of stock for good parts of the year as it often took up to 7 months or so between runs for a particular model. rusn 5-8 varied greatly, but they settled into a similar blend from runs 9-the end, which was around run 13 or 14 i believe, with higher yields with each progressive run. CFR = champion fund raiser = tournament stamped discs produced in small quantities to help beef up the tournament purse. this is the format they are using to reintroduce some of the no-longer-in-production molds as well as some standard models. the more rare models, such as the TL, EL, starfire (L and X) etc. are the only ones that really draw a premium.


2 - what is the difference between the Pro Plastic and KC pro plastic? I have to say, i like the feel of my KC pro rock much more than my Pro plastic discs.


it depends on what run. 8x, 9x, and the first 6 months of 10x driver plastics were very similar to one another and also are quite similar to millennium plastic circa runs 1.8-1.11 plastic for the polaris LS. as the 10x era progressed they started adding blends of CE plastic and the discs got slightly more overstable and more durable as this percentage increased. by the end of the 10x and all of the 11x's, the plastic was fairly similar, being translucent and pale in complexion. the first run of pro plastic is quite soft, but later runs (those found in the starfire, beast, orcs, firebirds, etc.) is quite a bit stiffer and more durable. while the plastic is of similar type it does have different flight and wear characteristics than the older kc stuff.


3 - I know for innova 'first run' means unbreakable CE plastic, but were first run Discraft Elite Z plastics any more dourable than those today? i just found a first run MRV, and it feels more like a cross between the KC pro feel, and the Champion durability. could just be because its so worn out though. any ideas?



first run = first production run of that model and generally says nothing about the type of plastic (with the first run pro teebird and aviars being an exception). the first run mrv was produced in elite pro plastic (now known as elite x).

1) Old CE was grippier, more consistant in the same run, and took beatings pretty well.

2) KC Pro plastic is the mixture that KC prefers. The other Pro plastic isn't as stiff and the drivers beat in way to quickly. Try to avoid using the new pro plastic driversunless you are on open holes.

3)First run doesn't necessarily mean CE. There are first run wolves, first run archangels, etc(the stamp on the disc says first run). The first run beasts were in old Pro-Line plastic(similar to current champion). First run sidewinders are in Champion plastic.

Oh and make sure you don't confuse Champion Plastic and Champion Edition Plastic. Champion Edition is the old stuff, and it says "Champion Edition" on the disc. Champion Plastic is the new plastic, and it has the swoosh innova stamp and says "Champion NameOfDisc"

thanks for the info, that does explain alot of things, but im still a bit confused (sorry, i know, stupid newb)...

The CFR actually are more dourable than the plain champion plastics? i was looking for a CFR TL and i wanted to know how they compare to the CE TL, because they are 70$ cheaper after all, and im buying it to use it.

I have the New 11x KC pro Roc. to me, it feels like the first run MRV's plastic, they both have the same grippy feel and have the same looking plastic. And i also have a pro TL, and a pro classic Roc. the TL went from being the best disc i owned to basically rubber in less than 2 weeks while the classic rock is still fairly unchanged. why dosent innova just make the freaken TL in a champion....:mad:

"why doesnt innova just make the TL in champion"
This is exactly what a CFR disc is. The plastic is no different than the regular champion. CFR disc is a disc that innova puts out to raise money for peoples tournaments.These are discs that normally arn't run in champion plastic. ie the TL, the Roc, Starfires, Eagle EL.these are all discs that are only produced in champion plastic for tournaments and such and therefore are a little more scarce, a little more in demand, and a little more expensive.The price is initially more because they are Champion FUNDRAISER Discs and the money goes to the specific tournaments purse. And then theres Ebay. . .

thanks for the info, that does explain alot of things, but im still a bit confused (sorry, i know, stupid newb)...

The CFR actually are more dourable than the plain champion plastics?


No. Lets see if we can make this simpler to understand. A CFR is a Champion Fund Raiser. There are a few molds out there that are not released in the current Champion plastic, but to help raise moneys for events Innova WILL make them in limited runs (but it's still the same ol champ plastic as other discs). These are the Champion Fund Raisers (CFR's). The only way to get a TL in champion plastic is to buy a CFR. They should be about $25 new.
I did a real quick google search for CFR Teebird L and this was one of the first hits.
CFR Glo TeeBird-L (https://www.zonedriven.com/proshop/product_info.php?&products_id=391&osCsid=0c9b1788fde06e4f796d88feb616a359)
I'm sure you can find many more. Look on Ebay too. Hope that clears up the CFR thing a bit.

CE plastic is indestructible. You can hit rocks at full speed and not hurt the disc. All other Innova plastics are subject to damage and chipped edges, but CE cannot be chipped. It's like nylon.

Discraft Z plastic is the same way. I have a Z XL that I use for all shots with lots of tree trunks and rocks and it's indestructible and saves money on replacement discs.

The CFR actually are more dourable than the plain champion plastics? i was looking for a CFR TL and i wanted to know how they compare to the CE TL, because they are 70$ cheaper after all, and im buying it to use it.



the CFR TL is more overstable and doesn't fly as far as the CE TL's did (unless you have a tremendous amount of arm). i've also found that the CE TL's broke in a little more uniform... the champion/CFR discs experience a pretty abrupt change when they first lose their initial overstability.

personally, my opinion is not to bother w/ older CE unless you already have a stack of them that you paid less than $20 ea. for. i had 15 unthrown ones when i decided to unload mine.

i loved the old SE TL's from back in the day. i was sad when they discontinued them, as they were and still are one of my most consistent distance discs.

you may want to experiement w/ the Z XL as a cheap and replaceable alternative. imo it's stability is similar to the early CFR TL's and some of the more stable CE TL's.

Why don't they use nylon? It would be indestructible.

i had 15 unthrown ones when i decided to unload mine.



Would you happen to have any more? ;)

seriously though i have decided to just get a Z XL anyways. This post wasnt rele about that. I just had never been explained the difference in plastics before now. I have read the article on your site, but that didnt explain CFR discs.

No. Lets see if we can make this simpler to understand.



and im not a [I'm a potty-mouth!], lol. just new.

^ and since when is M.o.r.o.n a bad word?

Why don't they use nylon? It would be indestructible.



actually, a local guy melted down a z disc and had it analyzed about a month after they were originally released. he said that they were like 60-70% nylon and we used that to explain why early z discs didn't skip very well but slid a long ways.

i had 15 unthrown ones when i decided to unload mine.



Would you happen to have any more? ;)

seriously though i have decided to just get a Z XL anyways. This post wasnt rele about that. I just had never been explained the difference in plastics before now. I have read the article on your site, but that didnt explain CFR discs.



I have them! HAHA!

yep, i sold them to him for $18 ea. + shipping under the agreement that he would buy all 15 at once and that they would not be resold for profit.

I still have all but 2.

That was at least 2 years ago, right?

around 2 years ago. i'd be willing to wave the no-sell clause in exchange for 50% of the profits :P

i'm sure i need the money a lot more than danny "i live with my dad so i can spend $700 a month on discs instead of rent/mortgage" reeves.

btw, if you don't like that nickname i can affectionately change it to danny "i can throw 500' but play 900 rated rounds when it counts" reeves or danny "i need the heimlich manuver" reeves. :)

fear the smack. just remember who taught you to putt :)

No. Lets see if we can make this simpler to understand.



and im not a [I'm a potty-mouth!], lol. just new.

^ and since when is M.o.r.o.n a bad word?




Moro[/b]n is not a bad word. :D

CE plastic is indestructible. You can hit rocks at full speed and not hurt the disc. All other Innova plastics are subject to damage and chipped edges, but CE cannot be chipped. It's like nylon.

Discraft Z plastic is the same way. I have a Z XL that I use for all shots with lots of tree trunks and rocks and it's indestructible and saves money on replacement discs.

Actually I believe the old CE was a urethane base while the new champion is a nylon base

around 2 years ago. i'd be willing to wave the no-sell clause in exchange for 50% of the profits :P

i'm sure i need the money a lot more than danny "i live with my dad so i can spend $700 a month on discs instead of rent/mortgage" reeves.

btw, if you don't like that nickname i can affectionately change it to danny "i can throw 500' but play 900 rated rounds when it counts" reeves or danny "i need the heimlich manuver" reeves. :)

fear the smack. just remember who taught you to putt :)



Actually, my newest nickname is "Danny why does summer classes cost $1150? Reeves."

And putting is the worst part of my game. Don't claim any help to me in that department. It would shred your reputation. LOL!

$1150 is $1000 less than my rent for the summer.

as for putting, i have one thing to say: heh.

dunno how many hours i spent on the phone with you tryin to get you to not be a bonker and you still are :P
offered you more help last year before the worlds but you turned it down :P

am happy to say that someone i spent 42 hours of intense putt training and at least another 100 hours ribbing and smack talking on the course finally came through couple of weeks ago and won a b-tier after his putt caught fire and he was hitting metal on everything inside 75'.

Is the most commonly used weighting agent in polyester discs still Bauxite?

If a Real Roller disc is to be made.

I would like one , made out of Urethane !!!!!

Like a Skateboard Wheel !!!!!!! :eek:

That would Hummmmm !!!!!!!!!! Yea baby !!!!!!! :cool:

If a Real Roller disc is to be made.

I would like one , made out of Urethane !!!!!

Like a Skateboard Wheel !!!!!!! :eek:

That would Hummmmm !!!!!!!!!! Yea baby !!!!!!! :cool:



History in the making.

If a Real Roller disc is to be made.

I would like one , made out of Urethane !!!!!

Like a Skateboard Wheel !!!!!!! :eek:

That would Hummmmm !!!!!!!!!! Yea baby !!!!!!! :cool:



What do you think the base is for "E", Elite Z and Champion? Old "CE" and some of Gateway's "E" is nothing BUT Euretheyne...most durable stuff around for sure!

vinyl?

Vinyl is what the original frisbees were made of. They break in the winter.

Back in the frisbee days I had a habit of whacking the disc against my left knee. I don't know why I did it. In the winter I had to remember not to do it, the disc would break in half if I did.

wow that must be some knee lol. :)

must be what my rocs are made of, broken two of them so far

The rule in the rule book about broken frisbees and how the biggest piece of a disc counting, was probably was written in the vinyl days, and not by a guy from Southern California!

I used to hit the center of the disc on my knee between throws because I liked the drum sound. Boing boing, but in the winter it would break.