First off, i have to say that the Teebird L is the greatest disc i have ever thrown. I throw RHFH, and have fairly consistent form with moderate power. After a only a week of playing (i play at least one round a day, and some days as many as 4) this disc was worn in so perfectly it flew exactly where i wanted it, never moving off its path. throwing it straight, it has 0 fade, and would just drop straight down probably 50' beyond my other drivers. The Problem is, after another week, the pro plastic is starting to get very flimsy, and it has worn in beyond its peak. now it is flying to the left and almost never coming back unless i throw with a bit of hyzer. now although this is working, the disc just dosent feel the same. its flimy, it sometimes wobbles, and i just dont even like to throw it much anymore. I was wondering if there was a champion(or equivelent) disc that has a similar flight after it is broken in. i know i could buy a CFR TL, but i dont really have the money to spend 30$ on a disc when i get champions for less than 12$. i was thinking about just trying a plain teebird since its more stable, but i was hoping one of you would have a better sugestion.

sorry about the essay. and Thanks in advance.

A champion leopard should fly about like your TL. Right out of the box its going to be a little stable but give it about a month of playing to beat in nicely. There are a few other discs out there too.

Actually, i just got a Champion Leopard, and its working good where im used to using the TL, but it still seems a little slower. is there anything in a speed 7 or higher that is as stable as the TL?

If you want to try out a champ Tl you can order x out ones for $11 from https://www.zonedriven.com/proshop/.

I'm not sure about speed numbers, but the Firebird in the Pro Line is pretty fast. Flys a lot like a teebird new and like a TL (certain TLs at least) when broken in. It is definately faster than a leopard.

just to warn, the CFR TL's will be substantially more overstable than the pro/se/ce ones.

I say if you play that much than you have to face the fact that you are addicted already. disc golf is a great cheap sport but like any addiction it can and probley will get a little expensive.Face your addiction head on and hook yourself up with a nice CFR TL it will last a long time and beat in to what your pro TL was when new,Definatly worth it .02

try a Sidewinder maybe. or perhaps a Flash or a 164-167 Orc. Don't worry though, you'll find something and its not the disc that makes the player.

Now this may sound stupid, but i am fairly new to the sport so give me a break. I Know the Old origional CE plastic is the indestructible one, but how does that compare to CFR Discs?

and i also realised that the CFR TL would be more over stable, but right now i need something just a tad more over stable so that when it breaks in it wont act like my TL does now. Plus, i love the feel of Champion plastic over all others despite what people say about the grip. Its much stiffer, and it dosent get flimsy in the hot weather were having in Rochester now.

Also, whats your opinion on X-out discs? I just encouraged a friends to buy one and we cant find a single flaw in it, but ive also seen some that have some major Dents. For only 11$ im all for trying one, but not if i can find a better disc.

Thank you all for your quick responses, This is a great Forum.

Also, ive heard some good things about the sidewinder, but that High Speed turn rating is turning me off (-3). i have played with a guy who used one as his primary driver however, and they flew great. but he also had much more power than i do. he probably threw some of his drives over 450', where im still averaging under 350'.

Don't count the sidewinder out. I throw about 300 ft. and I can get it nice and straight. I can also throw it well up hill and it works nicely. Get one around 169 gram. Also I like the Z xpress, very nice 2 with a slight left curve at the end.

jg, if you are throwing primarily sidearm like you say you are, I wouldn't recommend the sidewinder. It is a good disc for backhand shots for people with less power or turnover shots for people with more power. You may turn it over depending on the angle of release and how hard you are throwing your sidearm. Thats what that -3 means.

I dont even think the TL is on the approved discs list so you guys better stop throwing them :eek:

You could try an Elite Z XL by Discraft. I don't think it would be too different from the TL. If you don't mind a little extra fade, the Champion Viking is a pretty straight flyer with a resistance to high speed turn that isn't all that different than a Pro TL.

I Do throw Back hand too, just on longer drives i can never seem to keep my back hand accurate, and ive found it much easyer to get distance off of my RHFH. Shorter approaches i still throw back hand, and of course for Curving drives and other special shots.

Ive tried throwing A Champion Viking, and for me it behaves almost identical to my beast, and although it flys far, it gives me a wide S curve which i usually cant use on the wooded courses around here. Thats why i liked the TL so much. At least for me, it shot like a bullet, straight and little or no fade.

Im definatly gonna see if i can try out as many of these discs as possible. thanks for the suggestions.

No one wants to comment on why the TL isnt on the approved discs list???

I dont even think the TL is on the approved discs list so you guys better stop throwing them :eek:



I believe that since it is just a slightly reconfigured TeeBird that is "more Leopard-like", that is according to Dave D. That the TL is approved just because of it's insanely close relationship to the Teebird.

I also believe that the Quarter K is not approved either, as it is not on the list.

But....I could be wrong.

The Quarter K IS on the list though. So your telling me everytime you make a new disc and tweek the mold it doesnt have to be sent in for approval. Doesnt seem right to me. Im not saying it wont pass or anything like that all Im saying is I dont think it should be or is an approved disc just because they slapped the T Bird name on it. It doesnt fly the same and its not the same mold. Sounds to me like everyone who has been throwing TLs has been throwing an illegal disc :eek:

I dont even think the TL is on the approved discs list so you guys better stop throwing them :eek:


Huh?

The T Bird TL is not on the list of PDGA Approved discs. So all the people throwing TLs are essentially throwing an illegal disc :eek:

I just sent Dave Dunipace a PM to see if this is correct, but I doubt that its NOT approved. where is the link that list PDGA approved discs? If the CFR TL is not legal then I doubt that the CFR Starfire is either.

The T Bird TL is not on the list of PDGA Approved discs. So all the people throwing TLs are essentially throwing an illegal disc :eek:



This wasn't clear a couple years ago, but now the specs allow for 'tweaked' molds, and molds using different plastics without formal review - although submittals are "encouraged"...

<font color="blue">(G) Retesting
There are several circumstances under which a disc that has been previously approved is required to be submitted for a retesting procedure: (1) Mold, Material or Production Technique Changes - If there are changes in a mold that has been producing an approved disc, the discs produced by the changed mold may have to be retested for approval. Not all such changes require approval. Retesting is only required if a mold includes the addition or removal of a new structural feature (e.g., bead, step edge, and Thumb Trac), or results in a measurement that appears to potentially violate any of the technical standards. (2) Name Changes - If a disc that has previously been approved for PDGA competition is to be marketed under a different name, which does not include the name under which the mold has been previously approved, retesting is required. </font>

PDGATechStandards.pdf (http://www.pdga.com/documents/tech_standards/PDGATechStandards.pdf)

So your saying all they have to get approved is the original mold then they could make a TBird X and T and the TL and its all approved. Then the Starfire Starfire L and Starfire X and thats ok too. Doesnt make much sense to me but I dont make the rules.

although very interesting, shouldnt this go into a different thread?

Don't Trip..............T's , TL's , TB's are all PDGA approved in all the plastic runs.

Have not heard of a StarFire- X though. Would that be like a Monster XL ? ;)

I was just making things up. There is no such thing as a Starfire X but if there was it might be like a Monster L :D

Hey Pimster....................what do you throw most of ?

DGA
Discraft
Innova
Gateway
Millenium
Lightning
Whamo
Destiny Discs ( Jan Sobel's stuff )
Quarter K
Ching
Humphrey
Imperial Toy Company
Voit
Independant International
Select

I may have missed a few. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I throw all Discraft and 1 DGA. Tsunamis Wildcats Trackers a Wasp 4 BUZZZs and 4 Challengers for me :D

Hey Pimster....................what do you throw most of ?

DGA
Discraft
Innova
Gateway
Millenium
Lightning
Whamo
Destiny Discs ( Jan Sobel's stuff )
Quarter K
Ching
Humphrey
Imperial Toy Company
Voit
Independant International
Select

I may have missed a few. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



Shouldn't that be DiscWing, not Quarter K in the list of manufacturers

Yea , you are right. I didn't know if they made more than one type of disc. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I don't think they do, but I mentioned it just to keep it uniform, and to make it seem like my I.Q. really isn't a negative number :eek:

I throw all Discraft and 1 DGA. Tsunamis Wildcats Trackers a Wasp 4 BUZZZs and 4 Challengers for me :D

I don't see the "Tracker" on the list of approved discs, either (nor the HD Hawk, for that matter). Better stop throwing it before you get DQ'ed for throwing an illegal disc. :D

i havent entered a tourny yet any way, so it wouldnt bother me knowing i had an illegal disc.

anyway, back on topic, i think ive decided to give the Elite Z XL a try. i only have one discraft disc, and its really high quality (First Run MRV) so id like to try out more. so Compared to the TL its a bit farther distance and will have more fade a the end? thats what im getting from the reviews ive read. How is it compared to The Leopard? Im throwing that more now since my TL is broken in, and it seems to have more fade and less speed. Id love it if the XL had the same flight path as the leopard only +100 feet. Any one ever compare these?

I throw the mythical Starfire X on many shots. Its like the TL but with a bead (like the differnce between the T and TL) Strait flier with reliable fade. Love it. Does this mean that since the SX doesnt exist (per DG Pimpl) that maybe I dont exist either? I could just be a figment of an am2's imagination.... Let me guess, pimp got beat by a dude with a TL and now he must try and do everything he can to keep his dream alive :D

Oops, should have said the SX is like the SL, but with bead.

Its a small bead, but it IS there and thats whats important. Hmm, that sounds alot like pimp talking to his girlfriend.

Nobody f**** with the Bird without getting pooped on.

So your saying all they have to get approved is the original mold then they could make a TBird X and T and the TL and its all approved. Then the Starfire Starfire L and Starfire X and thats ok too. Doesnt make much sense to me but I dont make the rules.



What do you think a Buzz is? A modified Wasp. Anyway,since I throw a lot of CFR TL's, I took the time to ask the man that made the disc; here it is straight from Dave Dunipace - The TeeBird L may not be specifically listed as anything other than a TeeBird, but it is approved and has been around for many years.

i havent entered a tourny yet any way, so it wouldnt bother me knowing i had an illegal disc.

anyway, back on topic, i think ive decided to give the Elite Z XL a try. i only have one discraft disc, and its really high quality (First Run MRV) so id like to try out more. so Compared to the TL its a bit farther distance and will have more fade a the end? thats what im getting from the reviews ive read. How is it compared to The Leopard? Im throwing that more now since my TL is broken in, and it seems to have more fade and less speed. Id love it if the XL had the same flight path as the leopard only +100 feet. Any one ever compare these?



If you find a disc that gives an automatic 100 feet over a Leopard make sure to let me know what it is. ;) I don't think there's a 100' difference between my putters and long range drivers. Either way, I think the XL is a bit longer than the Leopard.

in previous posts i have seen people wishing that innova made a TL in champion plastic and i was a little confused because i found on a a Big 5. it was the one of like the five discs they had. did i just misunderstand or have i stumbled across a rare gem?

Innova does make a TL in Champion plastic, but it's usually a fund raiser disc (CFR) distributed to raise monies for different events. The going price for these is $25.

i've seen regularly stamped champion teebirds that are actually TL's...they do exist, but i'm guessing are mistakes or x-outs or something. if you run your finger under the lip of the disc, a T teebird will have a little flange coming down that you can feel. a TL will be smooth under the lip with no flange.

i'm a big fan of the TL...

yeah thtas exactlly what mine is and i love it