I am trying to make sure I understand disc orientation and how it effects flight patterns. If I want to throw an S-curve with my TL, should I release it nose down with a hyzer tilt?

Yes, assuming you are getting enough speed on it. It should flip in the air, hold a right turn for a ways, and then fade straight forward a tiny bit. Also I think it's good to match your arm swing plane, with the hyzer angle you put on the disc. So the disc should have an upward trajectory, untill it flips over.

you will want to throw most shots nose down, especially if you want the disc to turn at all.

as for making a tl s it depends a lot on how beat up it is, its weight, your power level, desired line, available height, etc.

ways to make it s:
1) release it anhyzer and get some height under it
2) throw it flat with sufficient power (or use a mechanics change to force the disc to turn if you don't have sufficient power).
3) throw it hyzer with sufficient power (or use a mechanics change to force the disc to flip/turn if you don't have said power).

if your quest is a complete all around game, my suggestion is to learn all 3 (5 if you count manipulating flight by altering mechanics).

Yay!!! I was hoping Blake would answer.

My TL is 165g Pro-line in very new condition. I am new to the sport so my power level is not very high. Recently I have started reaching 250' with some consistency. I am not sure what was meant by "desired line", I was thinking that was the s-curve part. Don't worry about height restrictions because in this case I am just talking about getting a nice s-curve on an open fairway.

My quest is to find a complete all around game. Which one of these five options do you think is most important to learn first? Which will be easiest to do for a new player?

Often times when I throw my TL it ends up flying off right sharply and then crashing to the ground. I have a feeling this is because I am rolling my wrist. What can I do to trouble shoot this problem?

What should I really be focused on at this point in my development?

Thanks,
RH

At this point you should try working on your arm speed and follow-through. These two elements reinforce one another.

If you are throwing 250 right now with a TL, you should easily be able to throw 250 with a midrange once you learn how to follow through. Grip the disc tight and don't let go of it, make it rip out of your hand and it will soar.

I assume you are a righty throwing backhand.
An S turn would be when you release the disc anhyzer,(angled so the disc will go right)and the disc will naturally want to come back to the left.This does not work so well with a TL due to stability reasons and could be one factor to your hard right slice into the ground.A more overstabe disc will work better for this shot.
To get an S curve by keeping the disc on a Hyzer angle (Angled so the disc will go left) is not an S curve but referred to as a Hyzer flip. this is when you keep the disc on the hyzer angle and due to stability reasons the disc flips up and goes straight or right. This is where you should be using the teebird. It will work better for you once you get some miles on it. As Blake said , this does require more power and snap but not so much with a worn disc. Hope this clears things up a little

Yay!!! I was hoping Blake would answer.



heh, you are also registered on my msg board and could ask as many of these as you wanted and know i will write back.



I am not sure what was meant by "desired line"



well... you can throw an s-curve...
-flat line drive thrown straight out that gradually turns late and comes back left (i call this a line-drive s).
-pushing a high anhyzer out to the left side and having it sweep across the middle and fade late.
-pushing a hyzer out to the left, having it gradually flatten, flip up and over late in its flight, it sweeps across the middle and fades back.
-throwing a hyzer straight out, having it flatten and turn gradually across the middle blah blah
-pushing a hyzer out slight left and having it fly straight and then abruptly change angle and turn/dive across the middle
-pulling a hyzer slight right, having it pull left slightly and flatten up before flipping over blah blah
-like 15 other ways... that i would consider a different "line" than any of these other ones.


My quest is to find a complete all around game. Which one of these five options do you think is most important to learn first? Which will be easiest to do for a new player?



imo, i would focus on having a good flat shot (with turn caused by power if any turn at all), a good anhyzer (this can be an s-curve if the disc is stable enough), and a good hyzer first. i wouldn't worry much about flight manipulation until you can execute these basic shots with pretty good proficiency. however, feel free to mess around with any of them, you will find you will learn a LOT from experimenting and realizing just how much control you can have over the disc and make it work by doing some things differently.


Often times when I throw my TL it ends up flying off right sharply and then crashing to the ground. I have a feeling this is because I am rolling my wrist. What can I do to trouble shoot this problem?



this is off-axis torque over most likely caused by wrist roll, a shoulder dive over as you come through, or an upper body lean. i wrote up a series of drills on how to fix this kinda thing on the technique section a few weeks/months ago. one of them is on the wrist roll thread, the other is... under a diff section i can't really remember. #1 rule = don't try to throw too hard.


What should I really be focused on at this point in my development?



imo, consistency, fluidity, shot development (having an array of shots for given situations), and having fun.

Thanks again Blake!! The disc golf community needs more guys like you. :D

I think you(Blake) are right about off-axis-torque being the source of the control problem I am having. Unfortunately I can't find the link on discgolfreview that deals with this problem so if it turns up, let me know.

Should I only be throwing one driver at this point in my development? I have gotten differing advice from advanced players.

Lastely, I know that I could insure a response from Blake by posting on discgolfreview but this way I get more help from others as well.

thanks,
Asimo :cool:

hehe, thx.

as for fixing torque, i have a variety of methods that may work, technique troubleshooter -> my disc keeps going to the right. not all of the info is as accurate as i would like it to be, but honestly, i don't really feel like doing any editing of it anymore as it still gets the base concepts as to the problems down.

as for how many discs... really, unless you have a ton of power and amazing technique, you probably won't hit your potential scores throwing only 1 disc.

what i would suggest is to tailor your disc needs at this state in your game to cater towards your throwing consistency/inconsistency.

if you struggle with nose up on your shots, you are likely best off throwing flat-ish shots and working to fix that and using more molds. if you don't have problems with this, then shorting yourself disc molds will often force you to expand your shot selection by throwing different types of shots that you aren't accustomed to throwing.

eventually you will find a balance where you are able to throw a good variety of shots but also don't short yourself so many molds that you are throwing discs that are poorly suited for given shots. this is usually somewhere between 2-5 driver molds, and raw disc counts will vary depending upon plastic type, broken in vs. new, etc.

My pro T-Bird L was a flippy piece of garbage. It may be bad technique, but it could also be a disc that is very inconsistent.

Mine is out of the bag for this reason. It would sometimes turn over if I threw it 250' with 30 degrees of hyzer on it.

I have totally given up on this disc. Everytime I throw it, it goes off hard to the right. Finally I accidently threw it on top of someones house and just left there. I kinda hope it doesn't come back. :mad:

I actually liked the Pro TLs. I never really got a good 'S' out of one, though. I'd either throw them with a hyzer for a very, very straight and long shot or either flat or with a bit of an angle either way (depending on the shot) for a gradual anhyzer or late turn. I took them out because I wanted something more versatile in the spot they were taking up in my bag. I still miss throwing them sometimes.

Garublador, what did you replace them with?

The TLs were longer than what i really needed for straight shots and I figured it would be better to learn how to throw one of my other discs for anhyzers. I've been using a Sabre for most stuff in the fairway driver type distance range and I realized that my Vikings did well on an anhyzer for anything longer. I'm hoping to break in a DX Viking to cut down on the fade to make it even better for anhyzers.

I do think that the Pro TL would make a good first long distance driver for a beginner. It's like a longer Leopard for me. I did have trouble flipping them for a while, but after I fixed my shoulder dipping and wrist breaking tendencies I found it to be a easy disc to get out to 320'-350' with minimal effort and huge in a tailwind.