I seen in a thread about putters that a lot of people are using challengers, I have not yet tried one, but am thinking of ordering one. Currently I use a proline rhyno, prostyle upshot 2, but a roc feels best leaving the hand. I used to have really great results with a wizard, but that started acting up so I got the rhyno and it's getting squirly as well as the u-2. So i need a putter that will last in my bag for a while and give me good results. Would the challenger be good for someone who is horrible at putting or should I try something else such as an aviar or magnet?

I could be way off, but the Magnet feels the most "Roc-like" to me in the hand. I think it has a different feel than most other putters. The Challenger and Aviar will be similar to the Wizard.

This kind of goes against conventional wisdom, but if you think your regular putters are getting squirly because they're getting beat up you may want to try a putter in high end plastic. I know both the Wizard and Rhyno come in E and Champion versions respectively and I think most putters have a high end equivalent.

The Pro-D challengers feel great! Very cheap to purchase also.

I use soft challengers as my primary putters and a cryzstal challenger as a driver.

It seems like though I am having to throw my cryztal challenger higher than I throw most other discs.

I carry both a Soft Challenger, and a Wizard (med). I like putting inside of 50 feet with the SC (been using the SC mold for a year or so), and outside and upshots (or short drives) with the Wizard (have only used the Wizard for a few months, and haven't really practiced with it enough yet). The Wizard is much more accurate for me on long up-shots than the Challenger, but I still seem to short-putt better with the SC. They are both fantastic discs.
I think once I learn the Wizard better [for short puts], I will be loosing the SC in favor of one mold for all putting and up-shots. I bought a huge stack of Wizards from the Gateway shop last week ... So I'll be throwing them now for practice instead of SC's.

I was a terrible putter, i've been through most of them, then i ran into a challenger in the bottom of my sale bin. (pro-D and Soft). If you need a putter that does not get squirrely, the pro-d challenger is it. it can handle quite a bit of power (if you are and aggressive putter) and has very little left to right glide (if you loft). The soft challenger is there for the sketchy pin placements.
P.S. even if it doesn't work, Pro-P Challengers shouldn't cost more the 7-9 dollars

something i've learned over time:

with solid technique you can make 70% or more of your putts from 25' using 95% of the putters on the market. however, you will probably only find 2 or 3 that will end up with a 90% success rate. similarly, you will probably find 2 or 3 putters that are tailored in a way that they fight with your style and you will struggle to break 50% make.

from the sound of it, your putt likely suffers from "lazy release syndrome." that is, with a new putter mold, you concentrate a lot on getting the disc out clean and on the correct angle/trajectory, but once that becomes memorized you stop focusing on those factors and the disc just doesn't leave like it used to. people often give up on the disc, buy a new putters, achieve good success, and then have that success fade, rinse, repeat.

the pro rhyno and u-2 are two of the shallowest rimmed putters on the market. chances are the roc leaves cleanest since it carries the greater angular velocity on its rotation and out of your hand. your next progression in success will probably lead you to the classic roc and xd, as they are the other shallow rimmed putters out there.

imo, there's a reason that certain putters have great popularity (aviar, wizard, challenger, magnet) and that is because they are stable for approaches/short drives and handle decently on putts in heavier wind conditions. they are also fairly slow and predictable finishers. my advice is to tailor your putt to one of these discs. any taller rimmed putter will generally require a very clean slide release or an active ejection release (finger spring), either of which will likely fix the problems you are describing.

i have not tried the classic roc, but tried to use an xd for a few weeks and hated it. Wasn't predictable for drives, approaches, anything.

In short are you suggesting I get a different putter and just stick with it until I make it work for me?

Dang Blake, you always blow me away ... Awesome info man.

if you like a shallow rim putter, try a spider. the release for me was cleaner than with a rhyno

i have not tried the classic roc, but tried to use an xd for a few weeks and hated it. Wasn't predictable for drives, approaches, anything.



the xd is a very finesse disc. i putted with one for a few months when i was still developing my putt back in 2001-02. it's a very straight flyer when thrown well. from the sound of it, you didn't like its lack of a bead (wizard, roc, rhyno, and u2 are all beaded). the classic roc is a beaded xd. ideally, you should be able to throw any disc pretty well, just some better than others.


In short are you suggesting I get a different putter and just stick with it until I make it work for me?



yes, but choose wisely and make sure that you are comfortable with this idea: if a putter has given great results for 32,492 people but not for you, chances are it's not the disc's fault.

when i evalute discs, i generally do it for their desired purpose. e.g. the "best" straight driver = best combination of good high speed turn resistance and little low speed fade, followed up by various weighted criteria: distance, predictability, and run to run consistency.

for me, the "best" putt & approach discs must be well-suited for long approaches and shorter drives. this means, they must be able to hold a stable line for 250' or more. that first evaluation really trims down the options (imo, the discs that fall into this category = aviar (and omega), big bead aviar, classic roc, bulldog, rhyno, magnet, challenger, wizard). my next evaluation is based upon a bearable/minimal amount of fade (but still predictable), imo that eliminates the rhyno and bulldog. next is speed/glide as i want a disc that is slow and accurate (this eliminates the classic roc) and does not have a tendency to hang into the wind (this eliminates the aviar/omega). remaining molds: big bead aviar, magnet, challenger, wizard.

after the mold is chosen, i look at plastic. stiffness and grip are the main concerns here. if a putter is too stiff it will have a large number of riccochets. if a putter is too soft it will be more gyroscopic and have a tendency to bend during the putt motion and decrease release consistency. champion/z plastics also tend to slide through a lot more and get slick when it's humid/cold. putters that are too sticky will grab more when you hit right side of the chains but spin out more when you hit left side of the chains. personally, i find stickier plastic also has a tendency to stick to the hand and pull to the right. this leaves medium to firm stiffness putters in plastic that isn't overly slick nor overly sticky: dx aviar driver (discontinued), kc aviar, pro aviar, medium wizard, firm wizards through 2002, pro d challengers, and d magnets. if you believe in my system, that should narrow down the available choices by quite a bit. since most of these discs have similar characteristics, once you learn one, it's basically a matter of fine tuning to find the one you like best.

others may disagree with this, but it is the system i have had great success with with the players i have worked with and helped them with their putt.

boneman: thanks for the props :)

Darn, my champion aviar almost made the list :D

Blake, you always amaze me.

I'll be picking up a challenger this week sometime If they are out, I'll get a medium wizard, since the wizard I used to use isn't even made anymore

Darn, my champion aviar almost made the list :D



if you make more than 70% of your putts from 25' then there's no prob :)

i forgot to put up my disclaimer that most of my putting advice is targeted at people who can't putt well, and i don't push any changes for people who already putt well.

Is the regular dx aviar small bead? Where can I get a dx aviar driver, the discontinued disc, Blake suggests?

if you were to call around and ask them to feel the rim to make sure it has a big bead heh... the pro aviar, kc aviar, jk aviar, and about 75% of the champ aviars are big beads (the other 25% being putt & approach mold).

the DX Aviar driver isn't discontinued.
IT's called a Classic aviar.
The only thing they aren't doing anymore is making it in bigbead. that is reserved for the proline discs now.
the classic aviar is a stiff Putt & approach. Very similar if not exactly like those Experimentl Omega Drivers.

I use them for my main putter because i pushputt and i also use them for approaches and sometimes drives under 260.

-Scott Lewis

the dx aviar driver = big bead aviar mold
the dx classic aviar = aviar putt & approach mold
both have the grid stamp.

i don't consider the classic aviar to be the aviar driver anymore as aside from being a different mold, they are quite a bit less high speed stable.

well if you put it aht way it would make a whole lot of sense since the bead seems to determine the high speed stability. as far as i know it's the classic aviar as there are no big bead classics being made anymore.

-Scott Lewis

as far as i know it's the classic aviar as there are no big bead classics being made anymore.



correct, hence the name change to classic aviar :)
the big bead aviar is also more blunt on the wing which also affects the flight a bit.

the big bead wasn't a huge seller, and they can probably be tracked down with the right kinda groundwork and employees patient enough to feel the bottom rim to make sure there's a bead. not sure about what will be available in weights. when i used big beads as putters i used 165-167g and those were always a pain to track down even before they were discontinued, especially in glow plastic.

Finally got my hands on a challenger, in the X plastic, it has a nice clean release for me, but I'm going to have to buy a new one. The only one they had was a neon yellow X, only problem is, when it lays in the grass, I can't see it at all because of my colorblindness. So I'm wondering, which plastic is more preferred? I have had many discraft drivers and mids, just never used the putters.

So I'm wondering, which plastic is more preferred? I have had many discraft drivers and mids, just never used the putters.



The only Challenger I do not have is the Elite X, because I just don't like the X plastic.

Here is what I use and why (all at 174g)

Pro-D = regular/usual/standard putts
Soft = Temps below 50 degrees
CT = for hooking putts or windy conditions
Crystal = approaches under 225ft, candy plastic slides through the chains so I don't putt with it.

Thanks Blake.
Couple of things "i find stickier plastic also has a tendency to stick to the hand and pull to the right."

Is there a cure for this? I'd say 1 out of 5 shots for me hangs & goes right.
My Omega supersoft made its way to the bottom of the bag because of this and I've been using a Rhyno (without much sucess either.) So the last few times out when I was within 100 feet I was using the Omega.
I hit a 100 footer(today) , a 65(yesterday) and a few 35-40 footers not to mention the sucess from 20 feet in.
I'm a new player (5 months 2-3 x/week) and now that I have a comfortable stance & better release this disc really works for me.
If I could just figure out why that 5th shot sticks & goes right.
Anyways. I get to play tommorow too. Practice practice.
I'll probably end up getting one of your suggested discs & maybe a couple more Omegas.

Which Wizard do you play with that is not made anymore.
We have Boxes of the older stuff, just ask and be specific.
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You might be getting a little lazy on your realease and occasionally draging your finger on the rim. Just a little and your shanked.

Is there a cure for this? I'd say 1 out of 5 shots for me hangs & goes right.



the short arm putting technique on my website was my cure for that tendency. basically, releasing earlier and forcibly ejecting the disc from the hand with a finger spring (and powering through either wrist rebound and/or a palm push at the spring).

the hang problem was about 1 in 5 for me and even if i made the other 4, the 1 that i missed would always get me frustrated so badly that i finally found a way to eliminate it.

Thanks Blake & Roc.

It may be I do get lazy with the release & let it hang.

As far as the stance what I've been doing is standing 90 degrees from the basket. When I reach back & straighten my arm, the bend stops with my hand in line with the basket. I think I use it more as a "release point" then anything, but I've had good luck with it.
About the "short arm" technique..... I got my father-in-law playing recently (and he's hooked now) but I saw him the other day using your technique.... I said "discgolfreview?" he said "yep" :D

The short arm or "Push/Pitch Putt" as most of us like to call it is the only way to putt. Its so easy to repeat and so easy to correct when your missing putts. When this putt becomes consistant and you get "on" during a round or a tournament you will not be able to miss anything and you will be able to keep that up for the duration of a tournament because its such an easy putt to replicate over and over and over again. I switched to this putt the last weekend in Feb while I was in Vegas. Avery Jenkins and Dave Feldburg taught it to me and it has improved my game 10 fold. Now when my putting is on I cant miss inside 40 ft and I stay on for longer periods of time then when I was spin putting. Before when I was on with the spin putt I couldnt miss from about 25 and in and It was entirely possible that my putt would dissapear between rounds or in the middle of a round. With the push/pitch putt it will stay will you for days maybe even weeks. I have been doing it now since feb and I would say im about 90 percent from 20 and in and about 60 percent from 25-35 ft if im having a decent putting day. Dont get me wrong you will still have the off days where you just cant seem to make anything but the beauty of this putt is that when your missing your putts your still usually less then 10 ft away.

So if your looking for a new putting style. Do yourself a favor and read Blakes article on the short arm putt.

The way I like to describe the putt is. Its like trying to throw a Textbook onto a table top. Just a little bit of loft and a slight finger pop is all you need :D

Good luck

PS The challenger is the best putter ever :D

Which Wizard do you play with that is not made anymore.
We have Boxes of the older stuff, just ask and be specific.
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The one I used to play with was a fairly stiff plastic, has the G logo and 3 dots underneath of it, then under the dots it says putter approach wizard, all 3 on different lines. The only reason I haven't went back to the wizard mold yet is because I was trying some of the softer/gummier putters, but it's so hard for me to get a clean and consistant release on those styles

PS The challenger is the best putter ever :D



well said!

I have had a magnet in the bag for years for stable drives, or windy days for putting. I recently put a Pro-D Challenger in the bag instead of a new magnet. I was pleasantly surprised! The Pro-D Challenger is awesome!