How does the Discraft Avenger compare to the Starfire and Orion? I ordered an avenger to replace my lost flash; I'm still waiting on the order. I started to order a starfire as well and was advised that if I had one I didn't need the other.

Is this accurate? Is an Orion similar?

My only comment about this is, when other people on my card are throwing their starfires, I seem to choose my avenger for the same shot. We all seem to throw it on about the same line with about the same results. I can't say that this is 100% accurate because I don't know what weights they're throwing and they definately have stronger arms than me. I held an orion that some guy gave me after fishing his sidewinder out of a lake. It felt good in the hand, somewhat similar to what the avenger felt like in my hand. In the end, I gave the orion to a kid in exchange for my Talon he fished out of that same lake.

I don't know how the avenger compares to the starfire but I know that it is more overstable than the orion.

Oh hell: now I'm gonna have to find an Orion. I saw one of the local players throwing one, and it flew far. He said it compared to his orc. But, he controlled it; I've never seen him control his orc. ;)

I think the Starfire and Avenger are pretty close. Though I have not thrown the Avenger in the Z plastic yet, give me a few weeks.

But as far as the Orion being close to the Orc, I have to disagree. The Orion is a great, low flying, tailwind, tunnel type disc. It does not hold up into a head wind as well as an Orc does. It is like a stable/straight version of the Sidewinder. Feels the same too.

Is it a good disc for "Elders"? The disc of our dreams?

Is it a good disc for "Elders"? The disc of our dreams?



YES!!!

ROFLMAO

Thanks I needed that laugh.

I've been using my avenger for over 6 weeks now. It has "seasoned" very nicely. It becomes easier to throw everyday! I think us.....errrrrr i mean.....You old timers will enjoy. :)

flynvegas, I threw the Orion a few times this weekend. I thought the flight was very similar to that of the Viking but just a little bit longer. You should like it a lot.

The Starfire is an excellent long distance driver that's pretty fast with nice glide. It may be a little too stable for beginners and weaker throwers.
The Orion is basicly a JLS with a little better glide. For me it's a nice long distance turnover disc at 90% power or straight disc with a hint of hyzer and 75% power. It can't handle too much power (for throwers who exceed 425') or too much headwind, but a good disc for a player who's max D is 320-380.
While I have an Avenger, I haven't thrown it yet as I'm sidelined with shoulder impingement. I'm crossing my fingers it doesn't cause me to miss Mid Nationals, as I've already paid for the registration, airfare, hotel stay and rental car.

Parkn' I agree about the Orion and Sidewinder directly into a headwind, but have gotten some freakishly long flights from both into a left quartering headwind (rhbh) by putting a little more air under them, hyzer release and S/flex flight. Both are very versatile discs and share space in my bag with "old" reliables - Valk and Orc.

Thanks for the feedback; still waiting for my avenger to come in. Orion sounds like something worth trying.

I think the Starfire and Avenger are pretty close. Though I have not thrown the Avenger in the Z plastic yet, give me a few weeks.

But as far as the Orion being close to the Orc, I have to disagree. The Orion is a great, low flying, tailwind, tunnel type disc. It does not hold up into a head wind as well as an Orc does. It is like a stable/straight version of the Sidewinder. Feels the same too.





I think its more overstable and definatly more predicable than the Sidewinder. But, everything else said was right on. Oh, and they are only good for about a week.

I think the Starfire and Avenger are pretty close. Though I have not thrown the Avenger in the Z plastic yet, give me a few weeks.

But as far as the Orion being close to the Orc, I have to disagree. The Orion is a great, low flying, tailwind, tunnel type disc. It does not hold up into a head wind as well as an Orc does. It is like a stable/straight version of the Sidewinder. Feels the same too.





I think its more overstable and definatly more predicable than the Sidewinder. But, everything else said was right on. Oh, and they are only good for about a week.



Stable/straight version = more overstable

The Sidewinder is possibly the most understable driver out there, and really anything would be more overstable then the Sidewinder, but I did not want to confuse anyone by saying the words Orion and Overstable in the same sentence. The Orion is definately not overstable, unless compared to only the Sidewinder.

Is the sidewinder THAT understable? I don't throw that stuff, but i do like to know what it's comparable to.

The Avengers seem to be fairly stable/straight at med-high speeds.

I would liken a New Sidewinder to a beat up, but faster version of the Champion Leopard.

Is the sidewinder THAT understable? I don't throw that stuff, but i do like to know what it's comparable to.

The Avengers seem to be fairly stable/straight at med-high speeds.



Is the Avenger a less stable Orc ?

Is the sidewinder THAT understable? I don't throw that stuff, but i do like to know what it's comparable to.

The Avengers seem to be fairly stable/straight at med-high speeds.



Is the Avenger a less stable Orc ?





We'll need someone that throws Orcs to answer that question.

Do I have to throw an Avenger , just to see ?

I think it is slightly more overstable than an Orc. I would imagine that the Z or CryZtal versions would be a bit more overstable than the X, which is the version I'm throwing. (Thanks My_Hero!)

The Champ Orc was my driver of choice for a long time,
And now I throw a Z Avenger instead.

REASON: It's just a bit more predictable. Almost as predictable as a Teebird.

This is how it differs from a Champ Orc:

Champ Orc (Max Weight) Stats:
Speed: 10
Glide: 4
Turn: -1
Fade: 3

Z Avenger (Max Weight) Stats:
Speed: 10
Glide: 5
Turn: 0
Fade: 2.5

The reason the turn is a '0' is because when thrown exactly the same as a Champ Teebird (max weight), the turn is IDENTICAL!

The reason why the fade is '2.5' for the Avenger is because it has more fade than a Teebird (Fade: 2), but less than a Champ Orc (Fade: 3).

This sucker has a BUNCH of Glide!!!

Great Disc, too bad its gunna be a Fundraiser. thats kinda stupid.

Great Disc, too bad its gunna be a Fundraiser. thats kinda stupid.



...If you like it that much, just pay up...supporting our sport is a GOOD thing!!

Is it a good disc for "Elders"? The disc of our dreams?



i play with a lot of players aged 45-60 (that have thrown 280-350' their entire lives) and my initial read on the orion was that it was the disc of their dreams (in lighter weights). since then my opinion has changed a bit on it and i believe it may be a little on the fast end unless you can consistently break 350'.

the players i play with have thrown approximately the same distance since 1978 and the technological advancements have matched the speed of their physical decline due to age. while many of them switched to the pro orc and z flash last year and had some of the longest throws of their careers, i have noticed that many of them are returning to valkyries and teebird-L's while others have made the move to the sidewinder due to control loss with the faster discs.

when it's broken in a bit the orion can be great for an "old school" type inside-out throw but may be a little too overstable when new for those bordering on the sr. citizen's discount at denny's.

Blake T.

I agree! I'm 52, been playing for a couple/few years, and I play mostly at 7,000 feet (Flagstaff). No question, the orion and sidewinder have both improved my game.

What about for those of us that pay full price?

......and, Blake, when you combine the SC discount with the early bird special, mmmmmmmmmm mmmmm............ /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif ;)

Great Disc, too bad its gunna be a Fundraiser. thats kinda stupid.



...If you like it that much, just pay up...supporting our sport is a GOOD thing!!



i was referring to the fact that it is just an ordinary z plastic disc just like the flick, crush, flash, etc. just because it is the latest and greatest thing out there and they know that it will sell, they feel that they can bump the price up??

i think that's cheating out golfers.

now if they made a special run of sweet ones with an awesome stamp or in NEON colors, then i buy one up right away. BUT for just an ordinary new disc, why pay extra? thats dumb.

Oh, and i DO support the sport i am OBCESSED with. what do you even know about that??? I will just choose to support the sport i love in my own way, and i think that this way of 'fundraising' is a bunch of bull.

Many disc golfers, myself included, took up the game due to the price. For those of us that couldn't afford green fees or country clubs, disc was something we could afford.

Though I have no problem with fundraising, I see his point. I refuse to forget about the players that save up to buy a new disc, for it is these players that end up supporting the game.

Were there no other players that at one time or another rummaged through the used pile because we didn't have the cash for a new disc?

While at a recent round, I was lamenting my poor flash that through determination finally found the bottom of the lake. I was accosted by another player telling me about the thousands of dollars that he has dished out in green fees. Surely one little 15 dollar disc couldn't compare. And, he is right to a degree; I just have to wait for my next pay period to buy a new one. But, I know many players that cannot. One of my best friends still only has his original 3 discs (one of which I gave to him). Were he to lose one, I'd buy him a new (or give him one of my old) one because I know he couldn't for himself. Sometimes food on the table is more valuable than disc in the hand.

i was referring to the fact that it is just an ordinary z plastic disc just like the flick, crush, flash, etc. just because it is the latest and greatest thing out there and they know that it will sell, they feel that they can bump the price up??

i think that's cheating out golfers.

now if they made a special run of sweet ones with an awesome stamp or in NEON colors, then i buy one up right away. BUT for just an ordinary new disc, why pay extra? thats dumb.

Oh, and i DO support the sport i am OBCESSED with. what do you even know about that??? I will just choose to support the sport i love in my own way, and i think that this way of 'fundraising' is a bunch of bull.



I agree. Now that they have all of these cool, multicolor stamping technologies, why do they have to force golfers to support specific tournaments just to get a certain disc in a certain plastic? I don't see supporting this system as helping disc golf, I see it as helping a few, certain tournaments and leaving the recreational golfer (the majority of players) out in the cold.

that is why i don't throw Starfires, Vipers, Tls, and most CE plastic. I can't afford to spend 25-30 or even more for a disc that i cannot easily replace (another 30 bucks isn't easy to throw down on one disc. Just stick to the discs that are currently available. THeres always a pretty good alternate from another manufacturer that flys just the same.....like the Z-wasp/champ roc.

was referring to the fact that it is just an ordinary z plastic disc just like the flick, crush, flash, etc. just because it is the latest and greatest thing out there and they know that it will sell, they feel that they can bump the price up??

i think that's cheating out golfers.





It is being produced to raise money for the Players Cup. Just like the CE roc is produced for the USDGC's expenses and purse. What's the difference?, or are you complaining about ALL fund raising molds/plastic blends?

Don't they eventually get released to the general public? Or rather get released as regular items? I'm still not sure how these special editions work. Never had one unless I find one, then I normally return it to the owner.

I know the champion roc was expensive; that's why I found plenty of Innova throwers with one Discraft item: the Z wasp hehe.

I played an entire round with an 175 Orion last nite and WOW what a great disc. I throw old QJLS's for many shots and the Orion it a great compliment to the QJ. Tons of glide with a smothe hyzer finish. Easily as long as my Orcs, Beasts,and Starfires. The plastic has a sweet feel very grippy. I rained during the round and I had no grip issues. I will pick up more of these. It's in the bag. :D

I rained during the round ....



hmmm

It is hard for me , to purchase a $30 -$40.00 disc and go out and thrash it.

They are really nice though.

I have lost a few disc's in the past though , which now are probably worth over $ 100.00 each. :(

It does balance out.

Supporting our Sport through the efforts of fundrasing , does help out. Sometimes it becomes really demanding and difficult to raise corporate money for our tournaments.

AM's want Killer Plastic for playing , can't really blame them.

Pro's want more money than there is !!!!!!! :eek:

Seem's like $ 100,000,000 may not even be enough in the future.

I'd like to be able to play Disc Golf for a living.

Can someone sponsor ALL my Airline , Hotel , Rental-car , Food and Entertainment expenses ?

I figure.........Hmmmmmmmmm.......about $ 165,000 a year for starters , not including chartitable funraisers and promotional advertising , let alone , media coverage !!!!!! :D

Can anyone tell me if there are any fundraiser Z Avengers available online? I live in the sticks, and probably won't see one at a tourney for awhile. Thanks!