I am not one to always criticize what the PDGA does or doesn't do.
However I feel the National Tour is supposed to be our signature event(s).
This should also be a place where we direct people on the net and show them how awesome our sport is.

Which brings me to my question. What purpose Is the PDGA Tour website serving?
There is rarely a story and if one is posted it is usually late or only covers one day of tourney usually first or middle. The last press release was Worlds from Des Moines. What happened to LIVE SCORING!!! ? Is no one smart enough to operate a palm pilot?
Can we not find a Journalism Student or even better a real reporter that might like some real experience covering a sporting event?
I realize we can only do so much with our limited volunteer resources, but a few phone calls to delegate not to much to ask. I have felt this way a while now, and this is not the first I have complained. I even went as far as to volunteer myself only to not receive any response.
I realize this may come off totally negative. I do enjoy most PDGA Events I play in. I also think our leadership does a good job despite a lack of delegation.

So keep those membersips coming

Sincerely

Colin Evans #19629

What a hot topic. :)
Didn't mean to stir up so much controversey. :)

ce

I did not read it until today, but I think all of your points are very valid. The one thing that bothers me is (usually) the PDGA's official response on something like this is they are overworked volunteers- but this is not the first instance I know of where someone has offered their self as a volunteer- only to be ignored. Unfortunately there is a communication barrier between the powers that make decisions and the mass members. The only time I have received a timely response to any inquiry on the first attempt is my recent address change. Lorrie responded very promptly and politely. Any other communication has been slow, or simply ignored.

Colin,

This is just one more example of why this sport is over 30 years old and is not gaining any national sponsorship attention. It is 99% volunteers and it is not being run like a business that wants to make a profit. It is being run like a club. Clubs and club events (ie...DG Tournaments) won't get sponsorship from outside the DG community on any regular basis because there is no bang for their sponsorship buck. The web-site, as you mentioned is just one of the many things that need attention.

All these comments are my personal opinion from being a member since 1982. Just so you know that I am not just complaining and not trying to do something about it, I run 8+ C Tier events each year.

From what I can tell Tom, they are quality events. Keep up the good work.

ce

CE, i volunteered myself to lend my writing skills to the tour, back in the winter when i was on the road every week. unfortunately, the reason i was given that my services were useless was that it was too hard to update the website regularly. for an organization with a 3/4 million dollar budget that seems rather odd, does it not?

i've given up on the PDGA. the next breakthrough in this sport will come from a tournament director who focuses on his tournament as a nation-wide event, like golf's Masters. someone with the time and resources to pull it off. let's hope that the USDGC keeps growing, and that the Player's Cup is a success. it's from a tournament like those where our next step into mainstream recognition will emerge.

<< Insert sanctimonious Nick Kight post here >>

Well, there are procedures in place so that a person who is motivated can run for, and possibly get elected to, a position that would help them to have the credibility to initiate sweeping changes within our organization. There are many, many people who have a great deal of knowledge, understanding, and common sense that make up our ranks. As with any group of individuals, there will be many different views and opinions.

As a long-time PDGA member, I believe that for the most part, things are on the right track.

If a person (PDGA member), or a group of people (PDGA members), is strongly against what is happening within our system, they have every right to seek out that positon that will help them make the changes they are fighting for, or to campaign for their candidate that will get them what they want. However, if that person, or group, is just continually being negative, or implying that their way is the best and only way, then I don't give them much credibility, nor would I vote for them if it came to a vote. If you want change, you have to make it happen by getting involved in the system!

I did notice a place up for in election, and have strongly concidered running for it. I have a graphics/advertising/marketing background, and I feel I would be better suited as a Art Director type position all volunteer of course. (Dont get me started on our marketing pieces that the PDGA has issued) Lets Hope w/ the new election coming up a qualified overseer will take office all it will take is one person that is willing to devote the needed time.


sincerely
ce

John I agree with most of what you say. I just don't think you should have to be an elected member in order to get your voice heard, or to offer assistance. When we hear about why something is not being implemented yet, or why anything happened any certain way, we hear about overworked and unthanked volunteers. SO lets use more of our members as volunteers, and stop ignoring them when they offer to help.

Most of what we hear is comming from the source that isn't getting what they believe is the best. A one-sided opinion without ALL of the details of the response from our PDGA. I read a lot of what is posted on this board, and in my opinion, some people just can't see that there are ways to get their point across in a manner that is respectful to the others who have gone about the process in the correct way. They resort to name-calling, threats, and other inappropriate behaviour, just because they feel strongly about an issue and they believe their way is the only way to get the train down the track.

It is frustrating to have an idea and to have your peers not see it the same way you do, but I don't believe just constantly complaining that your idea is the end-all of every problem is the way to go about it. Submit those ideas (with a well thought-out plan of action) to the proper committees, and let them work out details if they like the proposals. Or better yet, have the frequent complainers take the neccessary steps to become one of the members of the committee. Then they might see that there is more involved than just talking and smoking big cigars.

As a volunteer, I know I get very frustrated by club members that take on this attitude of just complain, complain, complain. Yet when it's time to get together and try to work it out, they are nowhere in sight (their time is much more valuable than anyone else's). Then when those in attendance do make decisions, these same complainers pop up and start screaming, "That's not fair. That's not what I want. I've got a better way!" After a few instances of this type of behaviour, these complainers lose credibility in the eyes of those who are sacrificing their time and resources to make this sport grow. It's too easy to just sit back and complain instead of actually trying to work together.

I guess in summary, what I'm getting at is people should respect the people who have taken the time to do things according to the democratic process to get their ideas and methods heard. And if some people just can't abide by the policies or rules that are put in place by that same democratic process, they have every right to get elected to a position that will enable them to be heard, or they can start their own organization.

One thing I might add to John's excellent comment, if you are really concerned don't send an e-mail offering to volunteer. Do something. At the very least show up for a meeting. If you are passionate about something then write a proposal. The PDGA BOD and Executive Director get 100s of volunteer offers and few who actually follow through. It takes action on your part to prove you are worth their time.

BTW - I mean that when I say worth their time. Anyone who has ever put together a proposal for a project and carried it through, knows how impressive the accomplishments of the PDGA and it's BOD are relative to the standards set by other organizations. Their time is valuable and they simply don't have the time to weed through the chaff.

Mr. Rock, it is tiring to have people complain all the time, but in this case, you apparently failed to notice that at least 2 people on this thread have volunteered to help update the content of PDGA.com in a timely manner. While everything may be rosy to you & mr. ross and the rest of the pdga-can-do-no-wrong-ostriches-with-their-heads-in-the-sand, the facts are that since 2003 we have had a huge jump in PDGA fees (membership & sanctioning) and really, just about nothing to show for it.

what really has the PDGA delivered in the past 2/3 years since implementing its huge fee increase? someone tell me what benefits the PDGA has delivered in the past 3 years after jacking up their fees? the only difference i can think of is PDGA radio. the NT sure hasn't captured anyone's imagination, least of all sponsors'.

I'd say the permanent facility in Georgia with the additional staff for better customer service is a major advance.

I did notice, and I have noticed many others volunteer their services.

I may not post a whole lot (in relation to other message board regulars), but I do read a lot of what is posted on this service provided by our PDGA.

As I read posts that come from some of these potentital volunteers, I begin to see trends in their style of banter. Much of it is, "I want to volunteer to share what I know, because you guys obviously don't know what you're doing, but only if I get things my way." So in addition to being condenscending to those who are trying to do their best, the burden of give-this-to-get-that is put in there as well. After dealing with them time and time again (mostly just here on the board, not at actual face-to-face meetings where things have a better chance of getting acomplished), it's not hard to see why the leaders respond as they do.

I'm not trying to pretend that everything is rosey and great, I know there is work to do. But I also realize that the PDGA is a much better organization now than when I joined (1988). I may not agree with everything the PDGA does or has done in the past, but as I said earlier, I believe we are on the right track.

Get out there and volunteer! Don't wait for an engraved invitation. Do what you believe is right and helpful for the community as a whole, and if your peers approve, they will pitch in to help.

From experience running tourneys, I can tell you that for every 25 offers to help, about 3 actually do. If you rely on those offers you will be left in a tough spot come tourney day. I know I have come off as unwilling to accept help because I don't jump and down when people who haven't helped before offer to help.

If you say you'll help and get a lukewarm reaction, don't take it personally. Think of all the people who sounded totally sincere who have made that same offer to the person and didn't show. Yeah, I know all those other people weren't you. But they all sounded juts as sincere as you do now. So show up when you said you would and do all you can to help, even if it wasn't exactly what you wanted to do. When you come back a couple of times and really help, then whoever it is that needs that help will feel a lot better about giving you a more critical taks next time.

Chuck, that's the best you can come up with? Did that "improvement" justify the huge increase in fees, which has hindered new members from joining our ranks and kept others from renewing? I do believe that the cost to set up shop in Georgia was minimal; wasn't the land & building donated for that? do correct me if i'm wrong.

johnrock i volunteer all the time, in case that was directed at me. i've run a few PDGA events and i'm running an A-tier this year that will certainly be the last PDGA event i ever do. it's great to be a volunteer, but to see other volunteers like the BOD waste our membership dues & high fees is another. it's sad really.

I've read about your accomplishments in LA. And it's good to see that maybe the PDGA will re-establish itself in your region. That area has had a rocky relationship with the PDGA for many years, maybe it's a sign of good things to come. Since you are not going to do any more PDGA sanctioned events, you might have some extra time to donate you skills and experience in the form of an overview of how the PDGA could better utilize their resources. I'm sure if a well written report would show up at a meeting of the PDGA BOD, they would all take the time to read it and discuss how to best implement the suggestions provided within. However, if said report started, "You buffoons are just wasting my membership money, and I'm not going to renew unless we get rid of all of these people I don't like...." well, they probably will just throw it away. Presentation is the key.

john that sounds like an excellent idea. i'll admit that i'm a little over the top, but i wasn't always this grumpy. the frustration of jumping through hoops trying to get disclosure and info that any PDGA member should have ready access to has led me into this dark hole under a rock! but, you're right, it doesn't do much good to point fingers no matter how good your intentions are.

now to take my medication to recover from this severe case of TD burnout. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Oh come on UPM! You were born grumpy. You stuck your head out and said "Man Doc, is that the best you can do! I'm going to talk to the Chief of OB about you." And you've been on that path ever since. :D

you mean i was born?

i thought i was hatched.

I thought I'd throw my two cents into underpar's discussion of membership dues increase and the new PDGA HDQ as I understand it. I believe it was 1 or 2 PDGA commissioners ago that the idea was brought to the BOD about raising capital by increasing membership dues. I think Pat Govang had put together some numbers supporting the idea that as membership wouldn't grow as fast with higher dues, it would be made up in $5 fees from non-members at tournaments. However that worked out, the reality was that the PDGA now has some working capital besides their yearly income of memberships and tournament fees. I think that number is somewhere around $200,000 but since I've never requested any official documents that number could off. This cash reserve has allowed the PDGA to hire another full-time employee. Why would they need capital in order to hire another full-time employee? I can imagine that the PDGA would want to know going in that they could offer some assurance of security to the new employee that their job would not be directly dependent on how successful the tour was that particular year but that they could dip into their reserves to pay the salary of that person any given year. However, that is just mere speculation. I believe that there are higher operation costs by having the new HDQ even though they didn't have to pay for the property and building. Again having the cash reserve allows the PDGA to undertake this long term liability because they know that they have the needed money to cover expenses for many years to come.

I think it would be nice to see a balance sheet for the PDGA. Even if it was only at a high level, it would be helpful to know how the expenses break down for the year and how that compares to yearly revenue. Perhaps the members at large would like to see more aggressive spending, while perhaps, the BOD thinks that a more conservative approach is prudent.

Lastly, one thing to keep in mind is that even though there might be a volunteer to work on a project, often the project still needs funding at some level. Another possibility is that someone would need to oversee what this new volunteer was doing since whatever they do would be looked at as a product of the PDGA. I'm sure that we all expect the BOD to look out for the overall reputation of the PDGA.

For example, even though the course designers for the NDGC are contributing their time, some of us are getting reimbursed for flight and motel expenses for our trips there. We're not staying at fancy hotels but this is just an example of expenses the PDGA underwrites for "free" volunteer help. We hope the effort will be worth it for our members.

some people just can't see that there are ways to get their point across in a manner that is respectful to the others who have gone about the process in the correct way. They resort to name-calling, threats, and other inappropriate behaviour, just because they feel strongly about an issue and they believe their way is the only way to get the train down the track.





stop talking about nick and his 2 meter plan before he gets you banned from posting :D

Terry, as in, Calhoun,

Why not take that weekly newsletter that gets sent to members and use that as the basis for the homepage updates.

What's good.

Latest NT and big tournament news. This gives validation to the fact that we are about running tournaments, and that we keep up with national, not just local events. It also will develop a familiarity with the game's top player names. Linking top players to the face of the PDGA should happen, they are the people at the forefront of the game. They are the people we all want to BE. It is akin to putting a Photo of Tiger Woods on the first page of the Sports section, instead of the no namer (to a large subscriber base) who is actually leading the tournament.

A brief synopsis of the NT point leaders. This is one of those things that simply does not get utilized very well. You can barely find this info unless you know where to look, and that is by linking away from PDGA.com, via a picture link that could be mistaken as an ad, to the PDGATOUR site then click on Stats to find this info. Basically, NT points is the easiest way to see who are the hottest players right now. Nascar uses the points system most excellently, not that I track Nascar, but I know that a lot of hooplah is raised about the Points. To the uninitiated, this points system would be a simple way to track some top players, all that needs happen is compile the top 5-10 men and top 5 women, and top 5 masters. This could take up a small column on the right, or maybe on the left and allow links to other events to be less graphical. All these graphical links are not very user friendly, as some are not designed to be that small and are all but unreadable.

The coming week's tournaments. What better way to show people what the PDGA does than to list the coming week's PDGA TOURNAMENTS. This allows players, both am and pro, to find a tournament to step up and play an event to see what this whole Association is about.

The upcoming SuperTours, NT and Majors. Probably a 2 month forecast is good. No need to display much beyond that. A link to a list of the Majors and what when, where, and why each exists. Some of the Majors have obvious focuses, like women's nations, some are not so clear, like US Masters, which I tend to confuse with The Masters Cup.

Links to recent disc golf articles. with an emphasis on positivity.

Stats on recent and total PDGA membership.
27900 total PDGA Members
8300 current members
1100 new members this year.

The Newest Disc Golf Courses.
This shows growth on a different scale, we are infiltrating into more parks every week. It amazes me the growth I see in course installations, but it is quite hard to track how many are installed each year. There should be a link to all the courses installed in the past year or calendar year.

A simple synopsis of the PDGA and it's goals, Keep It Simple, Sally. Pretty much the first thing that should be visible on the homepage, but not too verbose, two sentences tops. and a nice photo, perhaps a selection of 10 photos that rotates each time you visit the homepage so it looks fresh.

It sounds like a lot, but each bit is a pretty simple update. The hardest is compiling the news links. Terry could do that, someone with a handle on the courses could update those stats, Terry could easily update the Tour points stats and big tournament news. This could be a brief paragraph or two about the latest big tournament/s. Membership totals could easily be compiled by the membership director on a monthly basis. The PDGA synopsis doesn't have to change, and the photos could easily be pooled from a variety of sources (like me). The tournament director could compile the upcoming big events and weekly events.

Now if only we could get dynamic player ratings... I'm sure that would get a lot of people intersted in membership.

I may mock up a new homepage if I get the time...

I like the way you are thinking MaTT

ce

http://www.xterrier.com/pdga/

A rough sketch.

The homepage needs a makeover.

MOVE THAT BUS!

I like your ideas, and your rough sketch. Nice thinkin.

That looks very cool!
You could even add the daily google news on disc golf.
I get those sent to me every day and their almost always positive.

Fantastic

Yes, very nice!

These are the kinds of proposals that our PDGA can work with. Something tangible that they can put on the table in front of everyone (without any kind of negativity hidden within). It is obvious that we have some vey skilled people that make up our ranks, and when we can merge those skills with the skills of the people who have been voted into a position of authority, there is no limit to what we can achieve.

I like that.

Matt that is SWEET. I really like how you've got the upcoming tourneys on there.

All it really takes is someone w/ a passion for this type of thing to take the bull by the horns like MaTT has. Pete May take heed.

ce

Front page of PDGA.com looks good. Got some good info on there.