I was in an unsanctioned tourney yesterday for the solstice at Hudson Mills in the greater Ann Arbor area. Some kid threw a thumber with an Epic that did a full spiral(like a barrel roll) out about 150 feet, then it just went left like a normal throw another 200 feet. It's like the person got the disc to do a weird backflip spiral hyzer of a shot. Anyone else got any experience with a shot like this? It seems like it'd be a useful shot to have in the bag. I landed right next to him with a big hyzer on an avenger, but his shot followed the fairway whereas I had to throw over the adjacent fairway to get to the same spot.

That's the only thing the Epic is commonly used for; it's pretty famous for that.

Two guys at my local use it pretty much that way, although I think they throw tomahawks, not thumbers.
The larger of the two can get the **** thing to glide after the corkscrew and then roll another 30 feet. The total is over 400 feet
and he can do it fairly accurately.

:eek:

If you have the arm and throw it hard enough with a tomahawk, you can get the Epic to flip over twice, a sweet 720 barrel roll. Other then that it is a pretty useless disc in my opinion.

I have seen a few people do this as well!1 The first time i witnessed this type of shot I scratched my head and thought WTF was that!! IT's a real freaky looking shot , i have noticed inconsistency with it!!

I have been thinking of picking up an epic. I don't throw the tomahawk/thumber all that often but I am told that I throw it pretty well. I was using a Beast for my thumbers but it got to be a bit unpredictable so I have been using a Firebird. I can throw the firebird 300-360 with a thumber more accurately and with less effort than I can most other shots when the wind picks up. I know you can "tune" the epic and was wondering if anyone that uses it can fill me in on it.

It is a Piece Of C Rap

stick with the firebird!!!!! :D

It is a Piece Of C Rap



Coming from the Thumber King, this is a big statement.

Our course pro has one in his van which he shows to people to demonstrate what never to buy.

yeah, after a bit of thought I decided that, rather than buying a specialty disc for that one situation that is a crap shoot at best, I'd just work on my long upshots which would gain me far more than 'the right disc' mentality. I've just narrowed 3 discs out of my bag and am working dilligantly at a consistant midrange game.

Still, the overhand epic is one of the coolest shots I've ever seen. While completly inconsistent, it just looks so cool doin that roll. And who is throwing a thumber 360?

I am a fairly new player, but I have had some success throwing the Epic sidearm. I can get my best distance with it and generally a good roll.

Throwing a thumber that far isn't hard for me. I grew up playing lots of football and baseball/softball. It's more natural of a throw for me. I can stand at the endzone of a football field and throw all over the other endzone. It amazes me that people can throw 400+ backhand. I guess it's all about technique.

It's not something I do on a normal basis, I'm too afraid to throw my shoulder out. I normally use it at about 240 - 300. It doesn't take much effort to throw it that far, any further and I really have to crank it.

Funny thread! I was at a course a couple of days ago, and there were two guys that only had one disc each. I noticed the one in the basket and it was an Epic. Very strange as we don't see too many of those around here. Then when I actually saw the dude throw, he was throwing it overhand (not sure if it was thumber or tomahawk) and it actually went fairly far...

Sounds like it's the thing to do with an epic...

my epics are commonly refeared to as a cheater disc.

the only time i use them are when i have a 10/30 mph head wind and no ceiling at 2oclock. ithrow them very high with alot of snap as a thumber . they are very predictable with a strong headwind, flight includes a full barrel roll while climbing reaching its apex at 2:30 and 60 plus ft hight then it starts its glide, at its apex it is generally 150 ft plus away from release , the glide is mostly stable coming back to 12:00 generally 400plus feet away. this throw is not effective in any other wind conditions....side toside tail etc. :) :) :) :) :) :)

The Epic is my only real distance thumber. As for inconsistency, I think that's based on the person. I use the epic FOR accuracy and consistency. If I'm warmed up and ready I can throw an Epic on flat ground well over 300 ft. accurately. I'm not even very big either, 6'0'' 135lbs.

Technique is key? or maybe just throwing style.

I hate to break it to you but 300 plus with the Epic is not distance.........Heck back in the day I could throw a thumber with an Epic over 400 ft and I know other people who could get over 500 ft with an overhand Epic.........I throw a Z Flick for my overhand shots and can easily and accurately get over 300 with that.

By the way Epics are cheating and very irratic if your throwing the overhands that most people are thinking of when you say Epic.

sure is fun to watch them glide the wrong way though, I have seen a lot of people go birdie-birdie-triple bogie with them several times. :D

I'm not even very big either, 6'0'' 135lbs.



**** dude, you need to start eating more ;)

waaaay inconsistent, one throw will go 500 the next will dive at 250, the barrel rolls change alot between throws. i would not recommend it for tournament use.

I've seen one used for a distance competition. The guy could throw it like clockwork, two flips (720) and then it would fly the rest of the flight like a normal disc. The player was pretty consistent with it, except for once when it didn't get quite two flips and faded on a hyzer line.

So.................how far did he throw it? /msgboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

I would have to say it was near the 375-400 range. It was falling short of "the big guns" who were throwing 425-450.

360+ with a thumber...Do you know how big that is...Ive only seen one person do that, and no, it wasnt schweb...It was ville pippo(spelling). he is a finish player who was a top javelin thrower...He can crush a thumber and tomahawk...BTW, 360 is HUGE.

Will somebody PLEASE call the gentlemen/women at Aerobie and ask them to make an Epic II, with less of an insane off-center rim? I wonder how it would fly if it were about half as off-center, and the rim were a tiny bit deeper and not quite as wide and cumbersome....

Honestly. I bet it would be more consistant, and MAYBE you could still get them to barrel roll...?

Doesn't it seem like that would be the case?

-Brandon

When I said 300ft, I meant that's what I can throw without getting into the area my accuracy starts to decline at, not my max throwing distance.

As for eating more, I eat like a freakin' pig. Especially when chinese buffets are involved.

Hey-there is a HUGE difference between a thumber and a thumber with an Epic. I can get close to 300 with a thumber. I showed some guys in MKE the Epic in no wind and threw from the 13th pin to the 15th tee...and I suck at the Epic. We have one guy in Spokane who regularly flirt with 500. It is insane to watch it flip and glide. I tried it on #12 at Dineen but the wind wasn't right and it totally chundered...and still reached 250.

360+ with a thumber...Do you know how big that is...Ive only seen one person do that, and no, it wasnt schweb...It was ville pippo(spelling). he is a finish player who was a top javelin thrower...He can crush a thumber and tomahawk...BTW, 360 is HUGE.

I watched him at the Easter Open and the Dutch he throws all overhand and side arm he has gone over 500ft with it and he can place it where he wants. His epic is really beat up. He also has a crush that he throws overhand and it goes a good 350+.

Was that 360ft a thumber or a tommahawk? And can most people throw a tommahawk further than a thumber? I can throw a thumber 300-330ft, and i can throw a tommahawk 390-410ft (+or-)... Thats with a normal frisbee and not an epic, iam still experimenting with that thing.

it's different for everyone. mostly because a lot of people only throw one of them most of the time and haven't learned the other well enough. i throw a thumber really far and could probably throw a tommy far but never quite get the right flight out of it. seems less predictable to me.

wow-nice numbers...but I swear I dont understand how a tommie goes farther than a thumber....

I most definitely can't throw a tommy further than a thumber... I throw a beat Z-XS about 325 (real distance not MB distance :D) with a thumber but I am lucky to break 250 with a tommy.

I just can't get as much push from my fingers as I can with my thumb.

wow-nice numbers...but I swear I dont understand how a tommie goes farther than a thumber....


I may be wrong here, but I'm gonna guess that most of these barrel~rolls with an Epic for big D use a Tommy - as opposed to a thumber.

i do it with a thumber

Uh...I did guess 'most'... :o;) For me, I can't even get 1/2 the snap with a Tommy that I can with a thumber.

i'm probably the one exception. i'm kind of a big deal. ;)

For me right now with my new epic (about 1week old) i can get it to go about 425-450 with a tommy, and 375-400 with a thumber. It fades to the right with a tommy and left with a thumber.

For those of you that do tommy-are you finger stacking?

It is a Piece Of C Rap



i would disagree. i think its a great disc and i find the only people that dont like it are the ones who cant control it! i throw a normal thumber with a flick about 350 and when i throw an epic i can give it much less power and get it easily over 400.. its also a great way to avoid obstacles for those who might be less accurate with a backhand or sidearm..i definately carry one and its a good shot to have in the bag!!!

I haven't figured mine out yet, but the first throw I launched went around 380 at about 2/3 strength. I throw a monster thumber with a firebird at around 380 tops - I played college baseball. When I figure it out - IF I can - it will be really long.

Jordan

I think that people are talking about the barrel roll when mentioning the Epic's unpredictability. Any shot that depends on 720 degrees of rotation is inherently very touchy. Any wind makes it even more so. I think that the Epic gets this characteristic because of an extreme understability at high speeds, while still being low speed overstable. Overall I think it is a seductive disc to those who do not have a strong distance game but can throw well overhand. This may take this type of player's game to the next level where they will play with people who will model more legitimate ways to throw 400' golf shots. :eek: :D

Consistency is in the thrower, not the disc. I know a dude (the only man sponsored by Aerobie) who SOLELY throws the Epic (javelin thrower that ZZ might have been talkin' about).

He has a bag of about 8 of them, all 'tuned' differently. He uses them in woods, so he's deadly accurate with them. He's at least masters age and I've seen him throw ~450 (no exaggeration) with it. Dead straight.

They're not useless. I know two holes ever where it's the perfect disc. So it's almost useless. :D

...and I've seen him throw ~450 (no exaggeration) with it. Dead straight.



A dead straight BH, FH or thumber?
Am guessing the javelin throws are dead straight, though. ;)

I know that the Epic is a PDGA approved disc. But following their own guidelines, isn't it technically an illegal disc? According to 802.01 C, you are not allowed to make post-production modifications to discs. So what is it considered when you "tune" the disc to make it barrel roll out of those overhand shots?

Very good point. The marketing urges you to cheat! Especially when they call it tuning...that makes it sound in total violation. If the worded in terms of "slight bending" it wouldn't sound so bad.

Is bending the disc illegal?

I know someone who "tunes" his epic. He bends it differently depending on whether he wants it to hyzer or anhyzer after the barrel roll.

Regarding consistency, he is almost as consistent with an Epic as he is with a regular thumber, only he throws it 100 ft farther.

Anyone who can throw a regular thumber 300 ft or more should practice throwing an Epic. It is ridiculous.

Is bending the disc illegal?

I know someone who "tunes" his epic. He bends it differently depending on whether he wants it to hyzer or anhyzer after the barrel roll.

Regarding consistency, he is almost as consistent with an Epic as he is with a regular thumber, only he throws it 100 ft farther.

Anyone who can throw a regular thumber 300 ft or more should practice throwing an Epic. It is ridiculous.



Whether or not it is illegal to tune depends on your interpretation of "post-production modification". BTW, I was born in Tecumseh and you are the first disc golfer I ever seen on here from T-town. I can see that Epic working well at Heritage Park on those wide open holes.

Wow, small world. Tecumseh is not a very big town, and there are not many courses nearby.

Actually, I rarely play Heritage (mostly Ann Arbor area) and my buddy never has, but you're right that it would be a great thumber course for him. It is actually rare that he finds holes suitable for the Epic. It needs to have no canopy above the Teepad, and needs to be 400 ft or more.

My observations about the Epic.
1) It should be illegal. I think all discs should be uniform around the rim.
2) I wish I had a thumber big enough to throw it since it is legal.
3) For people without a big enough arm, it changes the "fall" direction of thumbers. Usually, thumbers slice downward right at the end. With the Epic, they slice left. Because of this, I have considered putting one back in my bag, but haven't yet.

I dont see what the obsession is with making this disc illegal? Probably because people not athletic enough to throw discs that athletic people can want them banned so to keep the playing field more level which is stupid. Similar to the destroyer.

I actually can throw the Epic...

and my observations are
1) Thumbers fade left and tommahawks fade right.
2) There is no need to carry more than one tuned differently or what not. Once broken in...- adjusting your grip and height of throw can affect the flight more effeciently than "tuning".
3) I have thrown 500ft with a thumber and tommahawk into tail winds and headwinds. I can usually control the distance from 400ft-450+.
4) Hardly anyone throws these things at all... Even with tons of practice it is scary! to throw one in a tournament is nerve racking. I think the most i have thrown one in a tournament is 3 times. One i won the long drive on a hole, the other i won a CTP with a near ace and my palms were sweating on both. If someone risks to throw one they should be rewarded instead of saying "that disc should be illegal".
5) I hated this disc at one time and swore never to throw it again... After over turning (3or 4 barell rolls) out of bounds in a tourny. But like everydisc you have to spend time getting to know it.

Just out of curiosity, do you think a Turbo Putt should be legal? What about the Wheel?

My concern is that some manufacturer will eventually figure something out that works, and this will change the sport in a bad way. Imagine something like an Epic that is easier to throw and is more consistent. Would everyone start throwing it and abandoning the "Frisbee" type throws? Or what about people carrying bags full of wheel-like discs for different types of rollers? Obviously this is far into the future as most of these gimmick type discs don't really work yet.

So this thread has inspired me to try to throw the Epic again. I threw my buddy's last night and got the barrel roll 2 for 2. I threw like 325. This was enough to make me to buy one for myself. Hopefully, I can increase the distance at least 50 ft. Then, it would be a pretty sweet throw to have.

Well the turbo putt i agree with because the outside of the rim is inconsistent, potentially dangerous if jagged edges are allowed. And I dont know what the "wheel" consists of, i saw a pic but couldn't really make out is actually going on with the disc. I dont think there will be a magic disc to take away from the sport with the current disc rules. Like footballs the long flying and perfect spiral balls all have tailes, wings, or stuff pertruding from it etc... And nobody is ever going to rule disc golf with an epic, i bet nobody threw one in worlds or the usdgc's.

First of all, this topic is no way related to a Destroyer. The Destroyer does not have an eliptical rim and there is no need to "tune" it to make it fly a certain way. All that was being said in my first post was that following the current guidelines of discs, the Epic is technically illegal. As for the Turbo Putt, before it was deemed illegal, I had a chance to try one out. The disc was way too overstable to use while turbo putting. I believe that the PDGA made the right decision in banning it, because like panther550 said, it could be potentially dangerous with the outside rim being inconsistent. Also as panther550 said, I haven't really seen or got to experience what a Wheel consists of or how it flies.

First of all, this topic is no way related to a Destroyer. The Destroyer does not have an eliptical rim and there is no need to "tune" it to make it fly a certain way. All that was being said in my first post was that following the current guidelines of discs, the Epic is technically illegal. As for the Turbo Putt, before it was deemed illegal, I had a chance to try one out. The disc was way too overstable to use while turbo putting. I believe that the PDGA made the right decision in banning it, because like panther550 said, it could be potentially dangerous with the outside rim being inconsistent. Also as panther550 said, I haven't really seen or got to experience what a Wheel consists of or how it flies.



I was just referring to how people wanted the wing width of the destroyer to be illegal because it gave powerful throwers even more of an advantage.

All that was being said in my first post was that following the current guidelines of discs, the Epic is technically illegal.


can you explain why? It's my understanding that the verbage is only pertaining to the outer rim continuity. Am I off base here?


Also as panther550 said, I haven't really seen or got to experience what a Wheel consists of or how it flies.


Marshall Street is sending me a QuestAT Wheel and it will be here today. I'll let everyone know what its deal is. I hope it holds up to its marketing. As for design, from what I gather, it is a normalish looking disc per say, however, the flightplate is directly centered in the rim height, thus, making a sort of "wheel" or "tire on rim" type design. I dont see how this disc could not get and hold PDGA approval.

As for the turbo-putt, well, lets just say it looks good on the wall! :o

The reason that I say that the Epic is technically illegal is not because of the rim, although I don't really like the eliptical rim. It was more towards the fact that to get it to barrel roll out of an overhand shot, you have to bend, or as they say, "tune" it. Isn't that technically post-production modification?

The reason that I say that the Epic is technically illegal is not because of the rim, although I don't really like the eliptical rim. It was more towards the fact that to get it to barrel roll out of an overhand shot, you have to bend, or as they say, "tune" it. Isn't that technically post-production modification?



No!!! You can TUNE any disc you like...........All your doing is bending it up or down to change the stability a little..........And from all I know your allowed to do that.........Its doesnt really change the shape or physical charateristics of the disc so its really not illegal. But Epics are stupid and unpredictable anyway :D:D:D

You dont have to bend it or tune it to get it to barrel. You just have to beat it in a little naturally then adjust your grip. I never tune mine and am fairly consistent with it.

Has anyone got an epic lately? i got a yellow and blue one and they seemed to be more of a champion type plastic instead of the dx feel of my old ones.

interesting... does it still 'tune in' like the older stuff? what color?

I was just referring to how people wanted the wing width of the destroyer to be illegal because it gave powerful throwers even more of an advantage.



The destroyer is pretty sweet, but if anything its leveling the playing field. If you really want to give big arms an advantage than you make eveyone throw low speed plastic. Make the fastest flying disc available a gazelle, than tell me Avery and Markus don't have a monopoly on the 450 foot holes.

Agreed on the Destroyer leveling the field rather than the other way around. I think the Epic is a horrible disc...I have seen players who rely on it almost exclusively, and while it seems like they've got it more or less figured out, and they get some sweet deuces, they aren't cashing. Yeah, it adds a bunch of D if you get the line just right, but there's just no reason to throw something that unpredictable...discs that behave inconsistently are not good for golf, period. Use a champion firebird and lower your score! I also can't believe the distances that are being claimed for overhand throws here...300+ with a thumber is huge, I have about as big a thumber as anyone I've played with and I am lucky to get much over 300' consistently.

Most people cant throw thumbers much farther than 350 from what i have seen and heard, but if you can throw 350 with a normal disc then you should be able to throw 400-500ft with the epic if you get it to glide out flat. I can throw a thumber on flat land no wind 375 pretty consistently. And i used to like the epic, but i doubt i will ever carry it in my competition bag ever again.

http://discgolftv.com/dgtv/397/wmv/channel/1 lane mason is probably throwing one 450 in the middle of this video.

Disc is tough in wind. Would rather throw a backhand. But it opens a bunch of avenues to some holes that would otherwise present more difficulty. IE going over the top is much easier in some cases with an Epic versus a Firebird tommy.

It's a great weapon to have, but should not be relied on too heavily, as it can be quite inconsistent, especially with the wind kicking around. I have pretty good control and have learned to tune it with the conditions, but even I keep it in the bag when it's too breezy.

Calm, and with the proper openings, I'm running at holes that even the biggest guns aren't reaching. I deuced 17 silver/blue at Warwick last fall in the NEFA finals. It's pretty far. 550 feet? 600? Not sure.... I was within 12 feet. Even the top pros in the world aren't really putting themselves in such a position on that hole.. Not saying I could do it all the time, but I did it, and I've given myself bids on other holes that most people can't get too.

Again, can't rely too heavily on it though.

Wish Aerobie would friggin sponsor me. I think they're more concerned about coffee makers than golf discs, though.

People hate on it because they can't throw it. It's not a magical disc. You have to learn it, AND you have to have a natural ability to throw overhand. I played baseball my whole life, HS, college, short pro stint. The disc works well with lots of speed and power, but also with touch when the situation calls for it. But again, you've got to know the disc and what it's capable of. Takes practice, repetition, as with anything.

I'd be glad to answer any questions any might have regarding this disc. Take it easy.

Well i thought i hated the epic but i brought it too centralia today on the beautiful 76 degree day with hardly any wind, and i was bombing that thing. I thought i hated it because it really doesnt work with cold air or heavy winds, but it is so sweet with good conditions. I was consistently throwing around 500ft, and i threw it 45ft past hole 7 on the rec course at centralia which is 510ft... It flipped up and even did a little s, pretty fortunate it didn't turn all the way over. thought i would share since i have been nah saying this disc lately.

I picked up "The Wheel" at Nats in Bowling Green while on a disc golf outing with the guys from the Richmond Disc Golf Club. I tried it at Preston Miller on hole 9. It followed the footpath all the way and layed down in the mulch under the basket. Dueced the hole the first time I used it. It is very situational though, grass slows it down, better for in the woods on bare ground.

Screw the "Wheel"! The Turbo Putt is the world's only all-terrain roller! Haha

one is is correct, the turbo putt is the best and only all terrain roller on the market. sucks for turbo putting oddly enough....

And iirc it is only pdga legal until the end of this year...

so, ill never use it ever its still a POS i just found a use for it....

I bought one after I seen some one throwing it in a tourney. I mainly use a Firebird for tomahawks but wanted to give this a whirl. My first throw did the barrel roll and was straight at about 375.

Every throw after that just dropped out of the sky at 250.

The Wheel is a useless disc, you can't angle it for control like any other disc so it just goes straight until it runs out of energy. Distance control = total crap. Directional control = straight only might sound good in a vacuum but not in disc golf. I nominate the Wheel as the worst disc ever from Quest and that is saying something.

wheel = worthless wall hanger or dog chase toy, you take your pick. inconsistent and uncontrollable, plain and simple.

Quest needs to stop the gimmicks and keep making discs that are actually good products....

Inferno, Raging Inferno DT, T-Bone... all great discs.

anyone want to give me theirs? i'll pay for shipping