Would a TD be allowed under the PDGA rules to ban smoking of tobbaco during rounds of a given event?
If ones tobbaco use is bothering someone during a round can they ask the person to stop?

(For the record niether has happened to me just wondering)

Would a TD be allowed under the PDGA rules to ban smoking of tobacco during rounds of a given event?



I would say it's similar to the alcohol rules where if the Park Dept bans smoking in that park, it would be banned. There are occasions such as possibly Am Worlds in Flagstaff where smoking outdoors is forbidden at certain times of the year due to high forest fire hazard.


If ones tobacco use is bothering someone during a round can they ask the person to stop?


Falls in the courtesy violation category where you can ask them to stop and they have to at least smoke downwind of you to avoid a courtesy warning and possible penalty.

At Live Oak city park part of the course is on school grounds which forbid the use of tobacco products.As far as I know, everyone abides by the set rules.. It's rather simple , if your going to smoke you had better do it before those holes (maybe 6 or 7 holes).. :D

...and what kind of mental edge does this tobacco~oxidation give these smokers? Driving farther...putting better...IT'S NOT FAIR!!!
/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Are you running for the Austin City Council or something? ;)

bad breath and a false sense of relaxation?

I would say it's similar to the alcohol rules...



The current PDGA rules regarding alcohol require the TD to make a local rule out-lawing the consumption of alcohol during the event if alcohol is normally legal at that course.

I believe a TD has every right to outlaw smoking at their event. I would suggest making sure that this local rule is very prominent and impossible to miss on the entry form. :)

Geez, can they outlaw gum chewing too? That snapping sound is really annoying, plus the **** gum chewers throw their gum wherever they want and sometimes it sticks to my shoes.

What about lollipop sucking? I think they should be able to outlaw that too. That sugar is bad for your teeth, so maybe the TD should be allowed to ban the consumption of anything other than bottled water, in the interests of health and safety.

The sound of you chewing your gum is annoying me, therefore it is a courtesy violation because it is distracting me while putting.

The smell of your sweat is obnoxious and is hindering me from being able to drive straight down this fairway that is a courtesy violation.

Your yellow shirt is a distraction keeping me from making this putt I hate yellow therefore it is a courtesy violation and you will be warned untill you change it.

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Just because somebody doesn't like something does not give the right to consider every petty thing in this sport a courtesy violation.

Geez, can they outlaw gum chewing too?


Alcohol and tobacco are similar in that are both controlled substances. Chewing gum is not.

Some cities actually are outlawing smoking (cigarettes) outdoors in public, so if a course was in one of these cities then it would be illegal and thus against the PDGA rules of play.

Alcohol is legal in many parks, but the PDGA forces you to make a local rule outlawing drinking during the round.

I am not suggesting that the PDGA require all tournament to outlaw smoking. I just believe that by the precedents established that a TD can ban smoking for a tournament. It would be necessary to advertise that fact so that it couldn't be missed by anyone considering playing the tournament.

I don't see it as a big deal at all. If you smoke and you can't go 2-3 hours without a cigarette, you wouldn't want to play that tourney. Most smokers are very good about their drifting smoke, but many are not. And when a non-smoker is stuck in a group with one or two smokers that don't pay attention to their smoke, then the non-smoker who is simply trying to play golf has to deal with whether or not they want to considered a "Richard Head" and risk getting in fight if they try to call the rules during play.

Rhett, I agree that if the park/town/whatever has a ban on outdoor smoking (quite possibly the dumbest 'ban' I have ever heard of, but they exist) then it's a no brainer.

The TD taking the 'law' into his own hands, however, is where we run into potential problems. The point I was trying to make in my earlier post is, if we allow a 'no smoking at my sanctioned tourney' rule, then were will it end?

We are not talking about an illegal substance. Annoying to some, yes, but not illegal.

Dan,

My point is that the PDGA already forces you to outlaw alcohol even if it is legal to drink on the course. Why can't you choose to outlaw smoking if you are running the event?

Again, advertise that fact well. Even use it to promote the event.

It might end up like the smoke free casino experiment in Vegas (where they instantly saw 30% less revenue than before) or it might be great a draw and provide a desired alternative for players.

Would a TD be allowed under the PDGA rules to ban smoking of tobbaco during rounds of a given event?
If ones tobbaco use is bothering someone during a round can they ask the person to stop?

(For the record niether has happened to me just wondering)



The RULES do state:

COURTESY 801.01 E. Courtesy dictates that players who smoke should not allow their smoke to disturb other players. Smokers should extinguish their cigarettes and carry their cigarette butts to a trash can. Disposing of cigarette butts by dropping them on the ground is littering.



So a "Smoker" must be aware of where his/her smoke is "drifting" or they could be issued a courtesy warning.

Most smokers ARE aware and its not an issue. The "littering" part is what gets me........
Ive heard it all.."Butts are not trash", was my favorite :(

What about farting?? :p..That drifts too?...Seems like most of the guys that end up on my card all eat beans for lunch. :(...Some of them even fart in mid throw. :confused:..Guess they probably think it will add distance to their drives. ;)..If that's the case then someone pass me a bean burrito. :cool:

Would a TD be allowed under the PDGA rules to ban smoking of tobbaco during rounds of a given event?
If ones tobbaco use is bothering someone during a round can they ask the person to stop?

(For the record niether has happened to me just wondering)



The RULES do state:

COURTESY 801.01 E. Courtesy dictates that players who smoke should not allow their smoke to disturb other players. Smokers should extinguish their cigarettes and carry their cigarette to a trash can. Disposing of cigarette by dropping them on the ground is littering.



So a "Smoker" must be aware of where his/her smoke is "drifting" or they could be issued a courtesy warning.

Most smokers ARE aware and its not an issue. The "littering" part is what gets me........
Ive heard it all.."Butts are not trash", was my favorite :(



Perfectly said Mike.

Most guys I know , that smoke , are considerate towards others and stay down wind. They understand the rules.

You are too correct though , about the cigarette .
They put them out on the ground and leave them.
These folks should carry their own ashtray or disposable device for carring the cigarette .

Yea , I know, sounds like alot to ask.
Isn't littering a warning or something ?

Quote:

" Alcohol and tobacco are similar in that are both controlled substances. Chewing gum is not. "
________________________________________________

.
... controlled substances ? ... so is Benadryl ... and ear-wax remover ... so ? ... can't have usage during a PDGA Event ? ... could possibly be Banned ? ...
.
... point is : if these guys want to comment on chewing gum , sweat , yellow shirts , anal breath , etc. as possibly problematic during PDGA rounds ; they are allowed to ... sure , it's carrying "banning" logic to extremes ... sure , it's sarcastic ... but , there is a true ring of Honesty in what they're saying ...
.
... if some players are "offended" to be around Tobacco smoke ; or the smell of wet snuff in the morning ; or my aftershave , , , big deal ! , , , forget 'em ! ...
... if these "complainants" are that thin-skinned , then they probably can't stand the sound of nearby traffic (ban the cars!) -or- the babbling brook (dam it up!) -or- the smell of the ozone layer -or- that bird that just chirped (ban the birds!) ... :mad:...
.
... I think I'll step off my soap-box now ...

in my 31 years of existance, I have never witnessed a cigarette, or cigar smoker concerned about where his/her (mom) smoke is drifting.

dont forget snuffers, that sticky spit is far more offensive than smoke which will blow away.

I have respect for others(being a smoker)and ask before the round,which usually takes care of the problem.I play around a few people who hate smoking around them while they play,so i respect that and move away.

Now,it is an addiction and most people i know would like to quit,but it isn't that easy!So, with that being said i would not play a sanctioned event that carries a ban like this and i'm sure many others would agree!

Pot and alcohol have many reasons why they are banned,if you want to nit pic about smoking and i'm in the group,You best play by every single rule becouse i will call anything and everything that even seems to be a violation on you.Since i'm Catholic i would even feel that using the lords name in vain at that point would be offensive,and that truly is nit picking.

Violations should be called,but if you have an issue like this i belive it is up to you as much as it is to me to make it clear ahead of time that this bothers you and i should be obligated to try to stay down wind from you!

...i would not play a sanctioned event that carries a ban like this and i'm sure many others would agree!



Be sure to check what the fire danger levels are predicted to be this August in Flagstaff. That area hasn't had a major forest fire in a long long time and some of the courses are on NFS land. That means it is very possible that PDGA Am Worlds will ban smoking during the rounds. (Upwards of a $5000 fine to be caught smoking by a Ranger.)

I as a smoker make every effort to stay downwind and keep my distance from other players (even smokers) while I smoke, since its distracting to have smoke in your face while trying to play, whether you're a smoker or not.

Littering is not acceptable. Even the smallest beginner bag has enough places to put extinguished butts. My car trunk (where I carry my bag) REEKS of smoke becase I always put every single butt in my bag and empty it when it starts to get full.

Smoking sucks... I too would like to quit, and putting butts in your bag is 1000x easier than quitting, so there is no excuse for not doing so.

...i would not play a sanctioned event that carries a ban like this and i'm sure many others would agree!



Be sure to check what the fire danger levels are predicted to be this August in Flagstaff. That area hasn't had a major forest fire in a long long time and some of the courses are on NFS land. That means it is very possible that PDGA Am Worlds will ban smoking during the rounds. (Upwards of a $5000 fine to be caught smoking by a Ranger.)



DQ if caught by a PDGA Marshal.

Rhett, the point I am trying to make is that allowing this type of ban could only lead to other discriminitory bans in the future. This has nothing to do with an NFS warning or local ordinance, both of which are obviously out of the TD's and PDGA's hands.

When I am smoking (currently, I'm between quitting phases, sorta) I carry a ziploc baggie just for my butts. If I forgot to bring a baggie I use an empty water bottle. Some of the courses I play are private (like Jason Southwick's Pyramids course) and the last thing I want to do is disrespect someone's property. The closest I've come to tobacco-related littering on the course is when my nicotine patch fell off during a 90+ degree day and I didn't realize till the round was over. Believe me, that sucked.

I always try to be aware of where my smoke is going, I always attempt to stand downwind of non-smokers. I'm not as careful around smokers because it impossible for two smokers to stand downwind of each other.

Tossing cigarette butts on the course is a major peeve. I always pack out my butts, and remind other smokers on my card not to throw their butts on the ground. It is a simple way to avoid giving the people that complain about disc golf another thing to add to their list of complaints.

Rhett, the point I am trying to make is that allowing this type of ban could only lead to other discriminitory bans in the future.


We already have them. The PDGA forces you to outlaw alcohol even when it is legal on the course. (I don't even drink and this one really bothers me.)

I don't see it as a big deal. It's not very often, but I have had smokers on my PDGA sacntioned tournament card who are oblivious to where the smoke goes. (Far more often than the few times that someone just got flat out s___faced annoying drunk.) If someone wants to run a smoke-free tournament they should be allowed to give it a try. It seems like a heck of a lot of DGers are smokers, so it might not even work out.

But that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be able to try it.

And as for non-sensical things like no bubblegum or no aftershave, why not? Put it on the flyer so that I can't miss it when I am thinking about signing up, and I'll either come and play without gum or aftershave or else I'll pass on that tourney.

if some players are "offended" to be around Tobacco smoke ; or the smell of wet snuff in the morning ; or my aftershave , , , big deal ! , , , forget 'em ! .

Many people do not enjoy the smell of smoke. The rule does not prohibit smoking... it just enforces common courtesy. You would be justified calling a courtesy violation if someone were constantly farting right next to you while you were trying to putt. The same thing applies to people calling violations on smokers.

" Ahem....Excuse me.........Do you mind standing Down wind.........Fart Bag !!!!!!!

I'm pretty sure that smoking is banned on the Nordic Tour (Scandanavia - northern Europe for all you geography-challenged Americans :D).

I know that smoking is banned when we play the European Championships in two weeks in Tampere, Finland.

If I am not mistaken, smoking will be banned during the Swiss Tour events starting next season.

Do I like this? No.
Will I follow the rules? Probably - we'll see how I'm playing ;)!

Oh, how I love Big Brother!!!!!!

Littering is not acceptable. Even the smallest beginner bag has enough places to put extinguished butts. My car trunk (where I carry my bag) REEKS of smoke becase I always put every single butt in my bag and empty it when it starts to get full.



I have a tip for you - water bottles for ashtrays. At any given time, I have 1/4 full water bottles in my golf bag, vehicle and home. Cuts way down on the stench. I've even offered my bottle to other smokers for their butts. But if all I have is water in them and need a tray, I'll put them in my shoelaces until I can get to a trash. ;)

... and you know those smokers are cheaters too ... taking unfair advantage over the competition ... I personally use the smoke to (a) ward off bugs , gnats , mosquitoes (advantage : me over the waving-swatting-itching competition ) ... -and- (b) as a wind-gauge before tricky putts or drives (works better than disfiguring the course by tearing out chunks-o-grass and flinging them up) ... again ; advantage : me ...
.
... I've quit smoking ... I've already quit 7 times today alone ... probably the same tomorrow ... :cool:

I dont have a problem with smokers, but like mentioned at least be aware of where your smoke is going. I have never smoked a day in my life and honestly I dont like being around smoke when it is known that it is more harmful to me than it is to them. :)

LMAO, you smokers crack me up.
Comparing bubblegum, and earwax remover (which are not controlled substances) to smoking is hilarious.
Basicly all of us want to see the sport grow and prosper,
What other sports sanctioning body allows the use of tobbaco during that given sports play, or even within the area of competition? Do you feel that smoking might tarnish the image of competitive disc golf to some??

"Smokers care where there smoke is going" Right, and there are WMD's in Iraq. How often do you see smokers huddled infront of an entrance to a building forcing anyone to enter that building to walk through there smoke? I live in a government city and infront of every building is a group of government employees (whom should be working) smoking.

Quote Dan Howard:
"""Rhett, the point I am trying to make is that allowing this type of ban could only lead to other discriminitory bans in the future"""
What?? are you kidding. Telling people they cant smoke during a sanctioned competition is not discrimination its called RULES. I smoke the refer, but not during PDGA events, so am I being discriminated against (and dont give me that its illegal BS, because its illegal due to a history of misunderstanding and prejudece of those whom used it).
What other "discriminatory" bans in the future could be out there that are remotely relavent to smoking?? No pink Discs?? No Long Hair?? English Only??
Really I dont mind if people smoke on the course, or during a PDGA event. Growing up with a hardcore cigarette smoker (my Mom) for 20 years, I have grown a large tolerance to ciggarette smoke it does not bother me. Its just the littering that gets me cause the only people I see littering on the course are smokers with there butts. Never do I see someone chucking a empty bottle or a piece of paper on the ground, but if I had an ace for every butt I saw tossed, I would have more aces the Climo and Schultz combined.
As far as smoking in our society, anyone whom does anything in our society that causes health problems to others should have NO rights to do that activity in a public place.(In my opionion)
But keep on buying those smokes and putting those $$ into the tax chest, because the more smokers there are buying smokes the less likely the tax chest will dry up.

Be sure to check what the fire danger levels are predicted to be this August in Flagstaff. That area hasn't had a major forest fire in a long long time and some of the courses are on NFS land. That means it is very possible that PDGA Am Worlds will ban smoking during the rounds. (Upwards of a $5000 fine to be caught smoking by a Ranger.)

[/QUOTE]

What does Flagstaff have to do with me??I'll be in PA with my 927 rating! :p

Hold on there clean boy.
"What other sports sanctioning body allows the use of tobbaco during that given sports play, or even within the area of competition?"
Have you ever watched a PGA event on TV? John Daly (not the only one) smokes like a frickin' chimney on course, the camers just don't focus on him while he's doing it. I think his caddy even picks up the butts for him. And he has HUGE galleries because he comes across as your average Joe six-pack couch potato, not some supreme better-than-you athlete. BTW, what's that in the cheeks of baseball players?
Also, in almost every county around me smokers have been banned from entrances and given kiosks or something far away from other people. At my school you cannot smoke within 30' of any entrance. Littering is already against the rules.

could you have more aces than geoff and johnny lissaman???

:D He said Clean Boy :D

No pink Discs?? No Long Hair?? Now Them is Fihgting Wrds! :cool:

Just relax folks.

OK...................No cigaretts in the Group

Also..........No ***** or ASSSHOLES !!!!!

PRICCKS and Wussies !!!!!!

IF you are going to DNF , without a good reason , Don't play anymore. :mad:

My Ex-Lady , didn't complain as much on her period !!!!!!

Also..........No ***** or ASSSHOLES !!!!!




Well, I've got one of each, so I'm out... :)

Dohhhhhhhhh........... :eek: :D

Thanks for the funny's. :D

It is difficult sometimes playing , depending on who's in the Group , ya know................

I understand... everyone gets frustrated during a round and have different ways of showing it, but for me personally it's like "If after 5 minutes you're still ranting about it, get over it"

I mean, everyone has poor tournaments (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=4848&year=2005&incl udeRatings=1#Recreational) but if you can't shut up about it, it just pisses everyone else off.

I Agree !!!!! It is part of growing !!!!

Hang in there !!!!!!!

Have you ever watched a PGA event on TV? John Daly (not the only one) smokes like a frickin' chimney on course, the camers just don't focus on him while he's doing it.



I was watching the PGA Champs last w/e and they showed Tiger saying the "F" word -- twice. :D I think that's worse than showing a smoker. :p

Have you ever watched a PGA event on TV? John Daly (not the only one) smokes like a frickin' chimney on course, the camers just don't focus on him while he's doing it.



I was watching the PGA Champs last w/e and they showed Tiger saying the "F" word -- twice. :D I think that's worse than showing a smoker. :p



Dohhhhhhhhh..............I have seen him swear too !!!!!!

I have also seen him throw his golf club !!!!!!! :mad:

When your as public as he is , Making Millions of Dollars a year..................He should just quit and enjoy traveling with his beautiful wife !!!!!!!! :eek:

He doesn't have to ever work again !!! He can play golf just for fun.

Oh , That's right..............Forgot..........He is a Professional ? :(

801.01 COURTESY
D. Littering is a courtesy violation.

804.05 DISQUALIFICATION & SUSPENSION
A. A player may be disqualified by the director for meeting any of the necessary conditions of disqualification as set forth in the rules, or for any of the following:
...(4) Activities which are in violation of the law or park regulation or disc golf course rules...

Littering is against the law. Cigarette butts are litter. I am a heavy smoker and I give one warning to a violator. I call EVERY player on this EVERY time I see it - in my group or not, tournament play or not. I spend my Wednesday practice rounds @ Circle C picking up every butt I see, and I will fill up 3-4 32 oz bottles in 21 holes (no i don't want a cookie, it is a completely selfish act.) I don't go looking for them or walk out of my way to get them, just pick up those I can reach. Disgusting and unforgiveable. Anyways CALL EVERY PLAYER EVERY TIME and remember - The litterer is the ******* - not the caller.

801.01 COURTESY
D. Littering is a courtesy violation.

804.05 DISQUALIFICATION & SUSPENSION
A. A player may be disqualified by the director for meeting any of the necessary conditions of disqualification as set forth in the rules, or for any of the following:
...(4) Activities which are in violation of the law or park regulation or disc golf course rules...

Littering is against the law. Cigarette are litter. I am a heavy smoker and I give one warning to a violator. I call EVERY player on this EVERY time I see it - in my group or not, tournament play or not. I spend my Wednesday practice rounds @ Circle C picking up every butt I see, and I will fill up 3-4 32 oz bottles in 21 holes (no i don't want a cookie, it is a completely selfish act.) I don't go looking for them or walk out of my way to get them, just pick up those I can reach. Disgusting and unforgiveable. Anyways CALL EVERY PLAYER EVERY TIME and remember - The litterer is the ******* - not the caller.



Wow..............this post should receive ALOT of attention !!!!!

801.01 COURTESY
D. Littering is a courtesy violation.

804.05 DISQUALIFICATION & SUSPENSION
A. A player may be disqualified by the director for meeting any of the necessary conditions of disqualification as set forth in the rules, or for any of the following:
...(4) Activities which are in violation of the law or park regulation or disc golf course rules...

Littering is against the law. Cigarette are litter. I am a heavy smoker and I give one warning to a violator. I call EVERY player on this EVERY time I see it - in my group or not, tournament play or not. I spend my Wednesday practice rounds @ Circle C picking up every butt I see, and I will fill up 3-4 32 oz bottles in 21 holes (no i don't want a cookie, it is a completely selfish act.) I don't go looking for them or walk out of my way to get them, just pick up those I can reach. Disgusting and unforgiveable. Anyways CALL EVERY PLAYER EVERY TIME and remember - The litterer is the ******* - not the caller.



Wow..............this post should receive ALOT of attention !!!!!


NO DOUBT!! Outstanding post!!

(I can only envision the use of HAZ MAT gloves in the "butt picking up" maneuver...cuz that's a lot of butts!)

(I can only envision the use of HAZ MAT gloves in the "butt picking up" maneuver...cuz that's a lot of butts!)


Just shorten that to "The Butt Picking Maneuver". :)

(I can only envision the use of HAZ MAT gloves in the "butt picking up" maneuver...cuz that's a lot of butts!)


Just shorten that to "The Butt Picking Maneuver". :)



You can pick your friends; you can pick your butt; but can you pick your friend's butt? :D:D:D

(I can only envision the use of HAZ MAT gloves in the "butt picking up" maneuver...cuz that's a lot of !)


Just shorten that to "The Butt Picking Maneuver". :)



You can pick your friends; you can pick your butt; but can you pick your friend's butt? :D:D:D



Can you pick your friends chewin' Tobacco ?

" Hey , my bag Ain't your Spitoo'n !!!!!! :D

(I can only envision the use of HAZ MAT gloves in the "butt picking up" maneuver...cuz that's a lot of !)


Just shorten that to "The Butt Picking Maneuver". :)



You can pick your friends; you can pick your butt; but can you pick your friend's butt? :D:D:D



That's not like Kissing my Boss's ASSSS is it ? :eek:

It's a basic concept,first you find a 20 bottle w/cap,next everytime you pass a butt you take off the cap,reach down with both and use the cap as a scoop!

I pick up trash at my home course regularly,i don't like it and if i see the culprit i don't hesitate to say something(one day i may have my butt handed to me)no pun intended!

You can't stop everyone from littering but,you can sure help by picking it up!

Nice and simply put Gary.

RonR
STLMO
16479

It's a basic concept,first you find a 20 bottle w/cap,next everytime you pass a butt you take off the cap,reach down with both and use the cap as a scoop!

I pick up trash at my home course regularly,i don't like it and if i see the culprit i don't hesitate to say something(one day i may have my butt handed to me)no pun intended!

You can't stop everyone from littering but,you can sure help by picking it up!



Nice Input...............This would help keep courses cleaner !!!!

It's a basic concept,first you find a 20 bottle w/cap,next everytime you pass a butt you take off the cap,reach down with both and use the cap as a scoop!



Here comes a dumb question: What's a "20 bottle"? Do we have those out here on the left side of the USA?

It's a basic concept,first you find a 20 bottle w/cap,next everytime you pass a butt you take off the cap,reach down with both and use the cap as a scoop!



Here comes a dumb question: What's a "20 bottle"?


A half empty 40?? :p

20 Ounce Bottle

20 Ounce Bottle



Hm, so I would guess that any bottle of any size would work. I thought it was something special or different.

Oh, how I love Big Brother!!!!!!



As of July 1st.....

Smoking will be BANNED in ALL PARKS, and numerous other "Outdoor Public Areas" in the City of San Francisco.

This came from the Mayors viewing of discarded "Butts" thru-out the city. :p

Wow..............doe's it mention anything about pipe users ? :cool:

Wow..............doe's it mention anything about pipe users ? :cool:



The law actually affects ALL areas "Operated" by the City of San Francisco. ie Parks, Wharfs, City Squares, etc....

The wording is "Smoking". Cigarettes, Pipes (whatever you like to put in them), Cigars, etc....... :p

I'm glad to see the city doing something about this. So many people discard their butts and don't think it's littering, heck I've seen people throw their butts on the ground while talking to a cop and no one considered it littering, especially the cop.
More of the public seems to do this--throw their cigs down. I know numerous golfers that keep their butts in their bag until the round is over--sets a great example for the other golfers who don't--keep up the good work. Make the course better than you found it!!!

Although I am working on quitting, I still always carry either an empty can(like a beer can) or an empty pack from smokes that I use to both keep my butts in, and to clean up the butts I find lying around the course.

we smokers are a dying breed any way! we will all have passed on at a early age due to smoking. so you non-smokers will be left alone soon enough.

Around here players are good about throwing butts away, reckers, not so much.

well, at least on our course, the rec players don't seem to be able to handle waiting for the WHOLE walk to the next tee from the fairway of the hole they're on to throw away the butts.

The only solution is a garbage can ever 10 feet on the fairway, and a nice grid of them in the woods around the fairway(more smoking when you're not on the fairway)

I totally understand.

Some courses don't have trash cans every couple of holes.

Courtesy though , by carrying a 16 ounce or 20 ounce plastic bottle with a little water in the bottom , maybe a alternate solution.

I don't smoke cigarette's , but I know folks who do.

They are very curtious around me and polite about the butt's issue.

It is an educational Issue for those who don't care though.
/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I am a smoker and when i smoke on the course i let my group walk in front of me so the smoke will not bother them and when i am through i put the butts in my bag until the round is over and then empty my butts in the trash.
If more smokers could do this and be a little more courtious to those around you we would not be having this thread.

I am a smoker and when i smoke on the course i let my group walk in front of me so the smoke will not bother them and when i am through i put the in my bag until the round is over and then empty my in the trash.
If more smokers could do this and be a little more courtious to those around you we would not be having this thread.



Nice post !!!!!

I did see this guy , ask this dude, to put out his cigarette.

Dude took offense and slammed the guy in the face. :eek:

Maybe he should have asked politely !!!!!!!

Man, what will you rats try to outlaw next... smiling when Rhett or grolly420 (nice screen name NONSMOKER- way to make the sport "grow and prosper") misses a putt?
Last time I checked, this is AMERICA (with a C instead of a "K", and personal freedoms are part of what makes us NON-FASCIST). If you don't smoke and think you need to protect everyone from themselves - MOVE TO KALIFORNIA. I'll be laughing when you crackers slide into the sea... ("learn to swim..learn to swim..learn to swim"... TOOL)

There are SO many bigger problems in the World than whether or not I decide to blow a butt into your avacado grubbing personal space...

WANKERS!
:p

p.s. -I pack out my butts,and try to be as courteous as possible, but if the wind shifts and my smoke gets in your precious little eyes.... find another sport, like seeing how long you can go without leaving your house. :mad:


___________________________________

Bass player for the River Bottom Nightmare Band

p.s. -I pack out my butts,and try to be as courteous as possible, but if the wind shifts and my smoke gets in your precious little eyes.... find another sport, like seeing how long you can go without leaving your house. :mad:





Excuse me.... :mad:

Be as courteous as you like but with that attitude you should stay home yourself...

BY THE RULES...If your smoke gets in my eyes(or anyone elses for that matter) you can recieve a warning..after that a stroke...and after that DQ'd......

As an EX-Smoker I am quite tolerant, but when IGNORANCE abounds, you will get SLAPPED ;)

:D

The city of Lawerence banned all smoking in public places, making smokers go outside to smoke, now they have to come up with an extra 150,000 dollars to pay for the street sweepers! So now non-smoking tax payers are paying for their complaints. :D

The bottom line is "Just be curtious", whether your a smoker trying to kill yourself or a non smoker trying to save the world. :cool:

Yet another example of the decline of manners and courtesy in this country. Be resourceful - challenge yourself and find another way to express your opinions without doing so at the expense of others.

I don't smoke (never have hardly), and half of the people I know that smoke (friends, relatives, acquaintances, co-workers) are very curteous about their habit, and the other half are ignorant about it. A friend of ours brought his roommate when they stayed over, and besides not showering as often as the rest of the world, this human ash tray didn't shower any over the 3 days they were at our house. Now our sofa (where he slept) and the blankets and pillows he used are ruined. We all went clubbing, and everyone came home and took a shower (whether smokers or not) except him. The point is that there are a-holes like this in every sport/area/family/etc. I don't care if you smoke/snort/drink/over-eat/chew gum or do whatever else to yourself, but just have some common sense and courtesy. I'm personally pretty allergic to smoke (found that out the hard way), but I'm not gonna complain as long as you do it at a distance (> 20 feet) and take care of your trash.

We just need to post on player bulletins, hole signs, and kiosks about the butts, and to exercise common courtesy to fellow human beings, whether they are golfers or not.

A special thanks to all that do take care of their trash and exercise courtesy...it takes more balls to do the right thing, and I for one greatly appreciate it.

I"m not a smoker, but i am a discgolfer and Human so i have a say in this as well.
Smoking is one of the only common things that people do everyday that greatly affect everyone in the area. Chewing gum won't affect anyone if you are silent about it(and it's not that loud with your mouth open) and you don't Throw your gum on the Ground.

In my opinion Smoking shows a Huge lack of Respect for oneself and thus shows a huge lack of respect for everyone else around that person. As a nonsmoker i should never have to Get smoke in my face or on my clothing. (without being to biased) WHy does your disgusting habit have to effect me? You don't have enough respect for yourself to not smoke so you definately can't have enough respect for anyone around you to care how they feel.

I agree with all nonsmoking area laws as there is no reason i should be effected by your decision to kill yourself.

In discgolf I only ask that you keep your smoke and Butts to yourself and don't bother anyone else with it. I can tolerate smoke, but not if there is a lot of it or it gets in the eyes.
I used to smoke marijuana and I understand how the smoke can get around and i know how much it burns in the eyes, but i also understand that in public it's just common sense to be curteous to others.

-Scott Lewis

P.s. I dont' know about all the smoking laws in Cali aobut smoking outdoors and such. I think that you should be able to smoke outside, but not when you are in line or around many people.. A park is ok in my opinion because you usually aren't very close to someone, but if youw ere at an amusement park or Boardwalk then you would be effecting many people that are very close to you.

-Scott Lewis

It really does not matter what state your in , provided your in the right state of mind. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

California..............................

For those who don't have respect for others , don't be suprised if you end up , head first in a trash can. :eek:

If you DO smoke , please be conscious of others.

If you become Unconscious , we will meet and discuss stars and those twisty things in the Sky , that aren't really there !!!!!! :eek:

C'mon.................... :D

I've got something for you to smoke....

if alcohol is BANNED DURING PDGA events than so should any and all SMOKING!! double standard BULLSHEET is what it is.

I have thought about this considering what I am doing. It is not up to another org to supress or enforce habits or laws. You are accountable for your own actions and I am leaning towards our events to be baby sitter free if you know what I mean. ;)

You show, you play, you have a good time. :D

Will I get banned if I post the acronym? ***, play hard, have fun.

re: grunion

Don't you have your own discussion forum??

Just my opinion, (I know a lot of people on THE board enjoy bunion baiting), but I was enjoying your absence.

if alcohol is BANNED DURING PDGA events than so should any and all SMOKING!! double standard BULLSHEET is what it is.



You mean you're not allowed to throw from OB but you are allowed to throw from IB!!! double standard BULLSHEET is what it is.

if alcohol is BANNED DURING PDGA events than so should any and all SMOKING!! double standard BULLSHEET is what it is.



Then we've gotta have "Cheek checks" for all those southern baseball player-types.

:confused: Nick you always lose me with your wit . or lack there of

ban all substances in a tiers and above. if not, it should be up to the tournament director if smoking is allowed.

littering should be one of the major reasons. professionalism being 2nd.

Fascists :D

If they do this. I'm blaming both of y'all and I'm gonna follow you around (actually walk in front of you) carrying some really nasty incense, chanting to a rhythm produced by a clanging metal mini. :p

Is myrrh still legal?

If you DO smoke , please be conscious of others.



I agree. i don't think we should ban smoking even though it can get annoying when someone in your group is doing so (especially if they start bragging about how they are on fire).
Justin Bunnell smoked the Idlewild (http://www.cincinnatidiscgolf.com/forum/thread-view.asp?threadid=563&start=1) course record from the longs earlier this year, and it would be wrong to make playing that hot illegal. I am almost never known to smoke, but if i do start to smoke in a PDGA sanctioned round, I'd like it to help rather than hurt my rating... :p

He's heating up...

If you DO smoke , please be conscious of others.



I agree. i don't think we should ban smoking even though it can get annoying when someone in your group is doing so (especially if they start bragging about how they are on fire).
Justin Bunnell smoked the Idlewild (http://www.cincinnatidiscgolf.com/forum/thread-view.asp?threadid=563&start=1) course record from the longs earlier this year, and it would be wrong to make playing that hot illegal. I am almost never known to smoke, but if i do start to smoke in a PDGA sanctioned round, I'd like it to help rather than hurt my rating... :p


And yet another non-pdga board! I agree, if I can't smoke in events then screw it. I just won't be there. It's bad enough when I can't drink my brewskies, but no smoking?! Boo! Going to be having a lot of cranky nic fitters if that rule is put into place /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

There is nothing wrong with Tobacco on the course...people who want to fight that rule are wasting their time. If smoke is bothering a player in the group they have the right to speak up and respectfully ask that you stand further away or downwind from them.

Littering is wrong, I put my buts in my bag even though cigarettes are bio-degradeable.

if alcohol is BANNED DURING PDGA events than so should any and all SMOKING!! double standard BULLSHEET is what it is.



I'm not a big fan of the "If I can't have my vice then you shouldn't be able to have yours" argument. It's weak. Come up with a better reason for not allowing tobacco use.

Lou as V would say " SHUT YOUR DONKEY"

That supports your point much better. :p

Curse me for being a smoker and still posting while not being a PDGA member. :oI see and undersatnd the PDGA wanting to look good and get a good public reputation, which means they should regulate top tournaments different from C or XC Teir tournaments that are more casual competition. I did not renew my PDGA dues and don't play many PDGA tournaments because it cost to f'n much and then I have to abide by all the rules. Not Fun! I Play Disc Golf for Fun. :DIf a city or park where the course is has laws and rules then they should be heeded. Anything less than A teir let the smokers smoke and the drinkers drink. And, Yes, they should be considerate of other! Duuh!! :cool:JP

I hear ya on being a smoker. Im also a smoker as well. I think it should be ok to smoke during an event as long as the butts are properly taken care of. If I have a bad shot or an easily makeable putt that I miss I want to have a cig to cool off. I also like to have a beer every now and then but i have never drank during an event but I probably have a couple or beers during the in between rounders.

I smoke cigars during the rounds especially in Paw-Paw for the sole reason of gnat protection....I have found that cigars are the BEST bug deterrent available. After years of using off, skin so soft, and every other oily type of bug protection I'm tired of trying to keep my hand free from their oil.

Now I'm sure there will be a thread drift in discussing bug protection...but no matter what you say, until smoking is banned by the PDGA I will continue.

Hey Mark !!!!!!

I sometimes , smoke a cigar as well !!!!!! Between that , and my Killer Cologne , bugs will land on me and Die, legs up !!!!!

:D

Donny Olow

Littering is wrong, I put my buts in my bag even though cigarettes are bio-degradeable.



I don't really have a dog in this fight, but the above statement does need comment: contrary to popular belief, cigarette butts are NOT biodegradeble.
See:
http://www.cigarettelitter.org/index.asp?PageName=SampleWeb

For the science, see:
http://www.cigarettelitter.org/index.asp?PageName=UN

I smoke cigars during the rounds especially in Paw-Paw for the sole reason of gnat protection....I have found that cigars are the BEST bug deterrent available. After years of using off, skin so soft, and every other oily type of bug protection I'm tired of trying to keep my hand free from their oil.

Now I'm sure there will be a thread drift in discussing bug protection...but no matter what you say, until smoking is banned by the PDGA I will continue.



If cigar smoke deters bugs, that should tell you something about how healthy it is... i remember a round once when two guys in my group lit up cigars. i am pretty tolerant and didn't say anything. but the smoke did bother me despite my efforts to stay upwind... if smokers pick up their butts and do their best to consider the effects of secondhand smoke on those of us who have lungs that are *not* desensitized to noxious smoke -- i see no problem with it though... it's their body and they should have the right to degrade it /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

pack a day smoker from 1979 - 1989 ... becoming unaddicted to nicotine may be the most sensible -- and difficult -- thing i have ever done

If I have a bad shot or an easily makeable putt that I miss I want to have a cig to cool off

Exactly I would like the same relief as you but I dont smoke cigerettes so my relaxation is a COLD BUD LIGHT!! but not at PDGA events. :confused:

If I have a bad shot or an easily makeable putt that I miss I want to have a cig to cool off

Exactly I would like the same relief as you but I dont smoke cigerettes so my relaxation is a COLD BUD LIGHT!! but not at PDGA events. :confused:



and my preference might be a shot of demerol :p but it would be probably be better for me to accept the consequences without resorting to a fix. i don't think i'll petition the authorities to make demerol widely available ... :D

otoh, you might get Marlboro or Budweiser to try and throw $$$ at the PDGA /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
for that matter, if the Supreme Court becomes any more corporation friendly the makers of Demerol might try to hook me up (for free till i am addicted and then the price would go up). on principle i'd oppose that though...

Chris, other than most parks outlaw beer anyways, another reason to ban beer at events is what happens when certain players drink too much.

I have seen it first hand at Texas 10's when the kegs were flowing. And dang it, he just kept wanting to talk to me no matter how many times I walked away from him. (I worked at a drinking establishment in the 80's, nothing better to get you to stop abusing when you see how stupid people act and look drunk)

what happens when certain players drink too much.




that would be their own fault and would most likely hurt their game.

Hell at least give them the chance to drink to much. So if the parks ok drinking than so should the PDGA

Penn and Teller have a great show on Showtime called Bullsheet, they have covered this subject.

Go to this link and click on the video titled "Is Second Hand Smoke Hazardous?"

Penn and Teller on Showtime (http://www.sho.com/site/ptbs/topics.do?topic=shs)

They seem to do their research.

Penn and Teller have a great show on Showtime called Bullsheet, they have covered this subject.

Go to this link and click on the video titled "Is Second Hand Smoke Hazardous?"

Penn and Teller on Showtime (http://www.sho.com/site/ptbs/topics.do?topic=shs)

They seem to do their research.



Sorry, but I'd rather get my scientific information from...scientists? I dunno, maybe that is some kind of kooky California thing.

A good summary of the science on secondhand smoke (with links to the actual peer-reviewed literature can be found at:
web page (http://www.no-smoke.org/document.php?id=215)

The only ones publicly disputing the science on secondhand smoke are...suprrise, the tobacco industry and its allies (including the Cato Institute which is quoted in that piece and to which the industry has given millions over the years). Privately however they have had a different take, as these quotes from their internal documents show:
web page (http://www.ash.org.uk/html/conduct/html/trustus.html#_Toc514752788)
There has been a lot of noise generated on this issue over the years for obvious reasons that the industry itself states -- secondhand smoke restrictions are bad for (their) business.

If I have a bad shot or an easily makeable putt that I miss I want to have a cig to cool off

Exactly I would like the same relief as you but I dont smoke cigerettes so my relaxation is a COLD BUD LIGHT!! but not at PDGA events. :confused:



and my preference might be a shot of demerol :p but it would be probably be better for me to accept the consequences without resorting to a fix. i don't think i'll petition the authorities to make demerol widely available ... :D

otoh, you might get Marlboro or Budweiser to try and throw $$$ at the PDGA /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
for that matter, if the Supreme Court becomes any more corporation friendly the makers of Demerol might try to hook me up (for free till i am addicted and then the price would go up). on principle i'd oppose that though...



Well................out here , a few guys , just start smoking bowls.................They really don't give a ratt's arse about anyone or anything. If you say anything , your car gets broken into , like mine has 4 times !!!!!!!! :mad:

sounds like you should set them up. next time you see these guys, leave a bag of oregano and a $20 bill on the dashboard and cell phone a cop and ask them to park out of sight but where your car can be under police surveillance. :D

All the information on the show about second hand smoke is from scientists.

There is no link between second hand smoke and disease.

One thing I don't understand is why non smokes take this subject black and white. Smoking is nothing like drinking. You ever hear of someone killing someone else cause they had one too many cigarettes before they decided to drive home? I haven't. Granted they both kill you, but cigarettes and alchohol/drugs are totally different in the argument. I understand that smoking is offensive to the people who do not partake, but why make a mountain out of a mole hill. Why even raise the question, "Should I be able to smoke at a PDGA event?". That seems rather like supremecy talking. If the PDGA is looking to make themselves look more respectalbe, how about they respect the vices of all golfers, not just the ones who complain the most. If that is not how they want to run things, they should put on every application for membership a toggle box for smokers/non-smokers. That way, if you are a smoker, you will be put in a group with other smokers and then mass genocide will occur upon us and no PDGA member will ever smoke anything ever again, tournament play or not. Then the PDGA will never have a reason to question their professionalism. I like the PDGA as far as rules and tourney play goes, but when it comes to some of this courtesy rulings, I think that you should just let us play.

Why, as a non smoker, should I consider smoking in tournament play anything but black and white? I have taken to asking smokers before a round to please be conscious of their smoke and put the onus on them to have their smoke avoid me. Regardless of how courteous they try and be (and most everyone does try) - invariably - I will find myself going out of my way to avoid their smoke at some point during the round. I would very much prefer to not ever have to do this, nor should I have to.

AMEN!! now give me a BEER :D

I agree Craig. Smokers are mainly concerned with their nicotene fix however, rather than consideration for others (or even themselves when it gets right down to it).

Since, similar to the rules apparently, folks are not going to take it upon themselves to be considerate of others, some organizational intervention might be appropriate. I don't know about an outright ban, but it might be worth considering having ONLY certain defined smoking areas around the course that would be unlikely to cause discomfort to non-smokers, any smoking outside of those areas would be a courtesy violation, or the TD could make them special conditions and DQ offending players if they are really intent on this.

Nothing POs me as much as seen cig butts littered all over a course. Then again, there is no clearer sign of "I don't give an F about anything" than smoking cigs...

All that being said, there are studies reporting that quitting smoking is more difficult than quitting cocaine or heroine, so a little compassion is in order perhaps.

What is truly sad is that folks still, even today, go in for the cool image, James Dean, 1950-80s cig smoking movie heros image of tobacco smoking as being an outsider, a rebel, someone who goes their own path, when really they are just victems of an insidious advertising campaign that has made the tabacco industry trillions of dollars. Sort of like Christmas and as a plot to get Retailers to buy more junk...

Like sheep to the slaughter... :(

Nick you feeling ok? You have more spelling errors in this last post than in any other of your posts I have had the pleasure reading. :confused:

Hysell...go get him!

Why, as a non smoker, should I consider smoking in tournament play anything but black and white? I have taken to asking smokers before a round to please be conscious of their smoke and put the onus on them to have their smoke avoid me. Regardless of how courteous they try and be (and most everyone does try) - invariably - I will find myself going out of my way to avoid their smoke at some point during the round. I would very much prefer to not ever have to do this, nor should I have to.



I'll have to remember to load up on chili and Rolling Rock the night before I play a tourney down Craig's way. Is it a courtesy violation if you fart during a round?

The vast majority of smokers are very cognizant of other's distaste for smoking. We can not, however, control which way the wind shifts. Should a player be penalized because of a sudden change in wind direction? Using the same line of thought, can we penalize players that camped the night before and reek of campfire smoke? What about the ones that haven't bathed in several days? I won't even mention the folks that you'd swear gargle with dogshit each morning.

Is it a courtesy violation if you fart during a round?


I see a lot of penalty strokes coming my way if you get that instated as the norm. :o

All the information on the show about second hand smoke is from scientists.


Claerly I missed something.

Larry Elder: Talk Show Host
Bob Levy, CATO: Constitutional Scholar
The only one quoted who is a scientist is Elizabeth Whelan, who heads an industry funded think tank. To my knowledge she has never published a peer-reviewed article on secondhand smoke. If she has please enlighten us.


There is no link between second hand smoke and disease.


Ok, and the earth is flat.

Like I said, you can continue to get your scientific information from Penn & Teller if you wish, I'll get it from scientists who are not on the payroll of the industry. Deal?

In all honesty, despite how much I hate cigarette smoke, if it doesn't bother you for me to throw up next to you after inadvertantly catching a whiff of your smoke, I don't see why you should be expected to concern yourself about it.

SwitzerDan,

I realize this is 4 months late, but this American will go head to head with you in a Geography contest anyday my friend.

Your assumption that all Americans are geographically challenged is as naive as our assumption that all Europeans are hygenically challenged. Where's the smiley emoticon?

:D There it is.

I dont think PDGA should mandate it, I think it should be up to the TD. Littering is a violation so of course you should call anyone violating this or any rule.

As far cigarette smoke's effect upon asthmatics or allergy's, I sympathize with anyone who suffers from asthma or any other debilitating condition. And while, admittedly, smoke is a trigger in asthmatic attacks, there are also a number of other things that can trigger attacks or breathing difficulties, such as the heavy perfumes that some folks wear (I often find myself gagging on some women's perfumes/mens aftershave, and I'm not asthmatic), paint fumes, cleaning products, dust mites, animal dander and exposure to other people's colds and viruses. Hopefully no one on the course will be carrying a can of paint or have their cat in their bag :D

Should the PDGA start banning people with head colds from playing tourneys, or even from going outdoors and mingling with the public, because someone might catch their illness? After all, one has a greater chance of getting sick from someone with a virus, than from someone smoking a cigarette.

Again, it should be up to the TD IMO, and it should be promoted as such.

Just my .02:D

Well, here's the main point that I was trying to express but got sidetracked in my last post. I'm a smoker. Sorry if that pisses you off that I am killing myself, but that's my vice not yours. The main point I want to get across is that not much is going to bother me during a round. If you're in my line of site, I'll ask you to move. If you're talking while I'm throwing, I'll ask you to shut up. If you are impeding me in getting my disk into the basket, then that should warrant a warning. But, when I'm in a PDGA round, there is only one thing that I'm am totally concerned with, and that is beating you and everyone else in the field; not worrying about what someone else is doing that I could possible give them an extra stroke for. Come on people. Rules are good, they help structure our tournaments and keep things fair. Don't let our organization be taken over by a one sided way of thinking. Isn't that what makes the PDGA so great, people from all walks of life coming together to compete fiarly and have fun? I guess I missed the memo listing the ways you can support fascism in the PDGA. I think that this issue should be decided on the course. If you have a problem with someone that is not being courteous (which I totally agree that smokers shouldn't be blowing smoke in you face), let them know. If they are still not being aware of their surroundings, then you have a reason to be [I'm a potty-mouth!] and that is worth a warning/stroke. Buck up, keep your head in the game.

Oh yeah, and being a smoker doesn't mean that you are a litterer or not courteous. I am a smoker, and I do my part to be KIND to the earth by picking up trash, and stowing away my own. Be it butts or empty packs, or a soda bottle or beer can. If you litter, that makes you a bad person, not a smoker!

HEy I saw Jon Daily yesterday still during the round on 17th hole smoking a cig and drinking a bud. NOw I m not sure but i am about 80 percent sure he was drinking a beer.

I am with you on that..sure looked like a budweiser...

they catch him smoking all the time though...

Oh yeah, and being a smoker doesn't mean that you are a litterer or not courteous. I am a smoker, and I do my part to be KIND to the earth by picking up trash, and stowing away my own. Be it butts or empty packs, or a soda bottle or beer can. If you litter, that makes you a bad person, not a smoker!


Thank you for bringing this up. I also smoke from time to time, and I hate this stereotype. People always equate smoking to littering. There are three types of people on the course. People that litter, people that don't, and people that pick up other's litter. Just because someone smokes does not put them in the littering category. By the way, why is it ok to tell people to not smoke? As if they don't know it is bad for them. I would never walk up to an overweight person and tell them they needed to lay off the food. Everyone has different vices, just let it be. If my smoking interferes with your game, by all means let me know. Otherwise,just let it go.

Oh yeah, and being a smoker doesn't mean that you are a litterer or not courteous. I am a smoker, and I do my part to be KIND to the earth by picking up trash, and stowing away my own. Be it or empty packs, or a soda bottle or beer can. If you litter, that makes you a bad person, not a smoker!


Thank you for bringing this up. I also smoke from time to time, and I hate this stereotype. People always equate smoking to littering. There are three types of people on the course. People that litter, people that don't, and people that pick up other's litter. Just because someone smokes does not put them in the littering category. By the way, why is it ok to tell people to not smoke? As if they don't know it is bad for them. I would never walk up to an overweight person and tell them they needed to lay off the food. Everyone has different vices, just let it be. If my smoking interferes with your game, by all means let me know. Otherwise,just let it go.



Check this out , I heard this lady , yell at this guy " If you don't like our country , go back to your own country and stop polluting ours " !!!!!! :eek: Others curse words mentioned , with stupid foreigner attached !!!!!! :eek:

I am with you on that..sure looked like a budweiser...




could explain the missed 2 footer at the end :eek: :D

I am with you on that..sure looked like a budweiser...




could explain the missed 2 footer at the end :eek: :D



I could have sworn , I heard someone in the gallery , yell NOONAN !!!!!!! :D

Is it a courtesy violation if you fart during a round?


I see a lot of penalty strokes coming my way if you get that instated as the norm. :o



beano

spelled b e a n o

I hear you, but you should not act hurt or like someone is personally attacking you if they give you a courtesy violation for smoke during a competitive round, or later strokes you. You are taking that risk by smoking. Just as you are taking it by cursing, walking infront of the away player, being rude, taking score incorrectly, etc.

The rules are there for a purpose, don't act surprised or hurt when they actually serve the purpose for which they were created: to ensure fair play.

I assume the risk of possibly being warned/stroked for smoking. As I said before, to the people who are not smokers and are anal retentive about huge clouds of carbon monoxide and tar engulfing their nose, lungs, hair and clothes, GROW UP! If I intentionally blow it in your face then go ahead and stroke me cause apparently I don't care about the rules. But I won't do that cause I am courteous. So, be a civil minded golfer and stop finding excuses to ruin somebody elses round. Thanks, that's all I have to say about that.

I am with you on that..sure looked like a budweiser...




could explain the missed 2 footer at the end :eek: :D



well said :D, and if i may piggy-back upon your wit -- don't rule out the possibility that he was also craving another smoke and that took away from his focus :eek: :D

I assume the risk of possibly being warned/stroked for smoking. As I said before, to the people who are not smokers and are anal retentive about huge clouds of carbon monoxide and tar engulfing their nose, lungs, hair and clothes, GROW UP! If I intentionally blow it in your face then go ahead and stroke me cause apparently I don't care about the rules. But I won't do that cause I am courteous. So, be a civil minded golfer and stop finding excuses to ruin somebody elses round. Thanks, that's all I have to say about that.



Exactly. Don't smoke if there is any chance of it ruining somebody elses round. If you can't survive 1 1/2 to 3 hours without a smoke then don't blame others for letting you know when you have violated the rules with your "must have" smoke.

I don't want to see a PDGA ban on smoking, I want to see folks be more sensitive to our rules, particularly courtesy rules, and work extra hard to not ruin other players rounds. And if, just if, their actions or smoke ends up bothering others in their group not to act like martyrs when they get warned and stroked for rules already in place.

Note: I have never in 25 years seen it come to that, but still, how you handle being called on rules violations is the clearest indication of your character and attitude towards fair play.

HEy I saw Jon Daily yesterday still during the round on 17th hole smoking a cig and drinking a bud. NOw I m not sure but i am about 80 percent sure he was drinking a beer.



SF baby!

Nick, how far are you willing to carry it? By 'it' I mean your concern about courtesy violations?

A. Players should not throw until they are certain that the thrown disc will not distract another player or potentially injure anyone present.

Can you guarantee with absolute certainty that every disc you throw will no potentially injure ANYONE present? If not, you have violated the rule. Hell, you could potentially blow out a rotator cuff throwing a thumber, potentially injuring yourself - violation. By the letter, this is an impossible rule to follow.

Players should watch the other members of their group throw in order to aid in locating errant throws and to ensure compliance with the rules.

Fine, in theory, rarely observed or enforced, but as it is a logical, enforceable rule.


B. Players should take care not to produce any distracting noises or any potential visual distractions for other players who are throwing.

Ok, this one has to make you laugh. Tie dye shirts? Loud, plaid knickers? Potential distraction. Blinking - potential distraction. Hell, even breathing if you are fat and just hiked up the hill on #13 at Warwick is a POTENTIAL distraction. See the point?


Examples of discourteous actions are: shouting, cursing, freestyling, slapping course equipment, throwing out of turn, throwing or kicking golf bags, and advancing on the fairway beyond the away player. Shouting at an appropriate time to warn someone in danger of being struck by a disc is not a violation of courtesy.

Well, here we have examples, but they are not all-encompassing. How much further do you take it? The rule is ridiculously vague in it's, well, vagueness.


C. Refusal to perform an action expected by the rules, such as assisting in the search for a lost disc, moving discs or equipment, or keeping score properly, etc., is a courtesy violation.


Ahh, the all-knowing "etc." I'll ignore the fact that 'moving discs' is pretty much what this game is all about.

D. Littering is a courtesy violation.
As it should be.


E. Courtesy dictates that players who smoke should not allow their smoke to disturb other players. Smokers should extinguish their cigarettes and carry their cigarette butts to a trash can. Disposing of cigarette butts by dropping them on the ground is littering.

Courtesy can dictate all it wants, but as has been stated up thread, if someone wants to stroke a smoker for littering they should, as often as it takes to get them to think twice about littering. But even the most careful and 'courteous' of smokers will fall victim to a shift in wind direction at times. Penalizing them for that is going above and beyond the realm of asinine, into the land of Bungholio.

Nick, if you are going to champion the enforcement of a rule, I'd recommend finding one that is a little more enforeceable and less open to interpretation.

** I know, the standard response to this is "Well, if you don't smoke in the first place there won't be a problem." Do you also tell the fat guy not to breathe? Or the hippie not to get dressed? Or Rhett not to eat beans and cabbage?

I'm a smoker and if I'm able to smoke on a course, I'm going to do it. If you don't like it, don't come around me!

I always stay back away from everyone when I do smoke so it will not get on them. If the smoke gets on you, by all means tell me and I will move. If you tell me to stop smoking just for the fact that you don't like it, you can [I'm a potty-mouth!] off!!!!!

If you want to give me a rules violation, go for it! Its not going to stop me or any other smoker from doing it.

If you're going to give someone a rules violation for something as feeble as smoking, that means I should be able to give you one because maybe I don't like the way you look, and it distracts me while I'm playing.

If I my smoke gets near you and you say something, thats fine, But I dare you to say something just because I AM smoking!!!

E. Courtesy dictates that players who smoke should not allow their smoke to disturb other players. Smokers should extinguish their cigarettes and carry their cigarette butts to a trash can. Disposing of cigarette butts by dropping them on the ground is littering.

Courtesy can dictate all it wants, but as has been stated up thread, if someone wants to stroke a smoker for littering they should, as often as it takes to get them to think twice about littering. But even the most careful and 'courteous' of smokers will fall victim to a shift in wind direction at times. Penalizing them for that is going above and beyond the realm of asinine, into the land of Bungholio.

Nick, if you are going to champion the enforcement of a rule, I'd recommend finding one that is a little more enforeceable and less open to interpretation.



So someone not smoking at all is just as likely to violate this rule then Dan? Again, I am not saying that we should have a ban on smoking. Just that smokers be fully prepared to be called on courtesy violations "if" their smoke bothers other players.

It is no crusade, just a statement of fact.

So you are saying that if your smoke really does bother another player then it is ok for them to give you a courtesy violation warning and then later throw penalties if it is repeated, but if they are just doing it to mess with smokers in general then you plan on getting in their grill, right? Am I getting that right?

Who is going to be the judge and jury of devining that bit of knowledge?

So let's say you are smoking at the beginning of the round, and I am a 20 year smoker who just quit last October, and I tell you, "I'd really appreciate it if you could try extra hard to keep your smoke away from me during the round." you'd say, "Sure dude, that's cool."

Then later in the round you forget and smoke sitting right next to me, smoke coming right at me, that if I gave you a courtesy violation warning that that would be ok.

Here's the kicker though: according to the "Cool" rules, I should not be a tight wad and just remind you again, and again, and again rather than call the rules as they were written and intended to be used, so you might still think I'm being a d!ck if I give you the warning, even with your stated rationale of what is cool and what is not to do.

I fully understand the smoker mentality. I am a smoker. But for us to put the burden on the non-smokers, by making them have to call us on a rules violation when our smoke bothers them is backwards "Bushian" logic. We need to take full responsibility for our actions and smoking, and if it bothers other players be contrite, not confrontational, in our response to be properly called on a rules violation.

Knowing, playing and calling the rules correctly is the right thing to do. We all do battle with to what degree we are able to accomplish this; but that is far different from having the general attitude that I'm going to do what I want to do and if someone properly calls me on it I'm going to fly off the handle and act like I am the victim.

"I'm really sorry you put me in this position of having to call you on this rules violation. I wish you had followed the rules so I wouldn't have to call you on it. Perhaps this will help you to remember it next time."

I make an effort to make sure my smoking does not bother anyone else. If one player makes a request that I be careful around him, and I blatantly forget, I earned the sroke. If I am trying to be careful and standing some distance downwind and the wind shifts, I haven't earned the stroke.

So you would be the victem in such an instance then Gary, right?

You did your best to follow the rules after all right? Just because you still ended up breaking them anyway doesn't matter and you are not accountable, right?

Bottom line: If you smoke, accept the strong possibility, that even in spite of your best efforts, you may well end up violating the courtesy rules pertaining to smoking. Don't compound the violation with further rude and unsportsmanlike behavior and attitude. Accept the warning and resolve yourself to make sure it doesn't happen again. The responsibility is yours, not the non-smokers. As an ex-smoker I often find myself running around trying to stay out of the path of smokers (which is nearly impossible), that I have to do this IS an infringement and often ruins at least a part of my round.

That as our rules clearly indicate is not fair.

Again, no ban, just full awareness of the rules and the possibility that no matter how careful you are as a smoker you might still get properly called for a courtesy violation, so prepare yourself and don't be a d!ck on top of being a rules breaker if called.

So you are saying that if your smoke really does bother another player then it is ok for them to give you a courtesy violation warning and then later throw penalties if it is repeated, but if they are just doing it to mess with smokers in general then you plan on getting in their grill, right? Am I getting that right?

Who is going to be the judge and jury of devining that bit of knowledge?

and this from a person who oncethreatened to do everything he could to get me barred from the pdga if i called a rules infraction out of spite (spite as determined apparently by him) !!!

nick, go play in the street or sumpin!

I make an effort to make sure my smoking does not bother anyone else. If one player makes a request that I be careful around him, and I blatantly forget, I earned the sroke. If I am trying to be careful and standing some distance downwind and the wind shifts, I haven't earned the stroke.



I don't think it can be put any better than Gary has here.

If someone still wishes to stroke me for smoking then I will be forced to unload on them with all the power that the foolish courtesy rules give me. Don't breathe, fart, grunt, groan, etc. or you'll get stroked.

FWIW, I have not seen or heard of this being an issue in any tourney I've played over the last 5 years or so; we are probably just arguing semantics at this point.

'Nuff said. :D

we are probably just arguing semantics at this point.



rules thread posters would never even go there -- would they? :confused: :p :D

So you would be the victem in such an instance then Gary, right?

You did your best to follow the rules after all right? Just because you still ended up breaking them anyway doesn't matter and you are not accountable, right?



It doesn't seem that you are getting this. I didn't end up breaking the rule, The other player may have ended up being distrubed by the smoke, but I had taken every reasonable precaution to prevent that.

I think I could successfully contest a penalty with the TD if it could be shown that I had made a substantial effort to prevent my smoking from bothering the other player.

The rule seems to address things the player has control over. If I take the time to determine which way the wind is blowing and move some distance downwind before I start smoking, and make an effort to stay downwind while I smoke, I think I have met the requirements of the rule.

If nature suddenly shifts the wind and a waft of smoke hits the other player before I can adjust my position, I have still taken all reasonable precautions (short of not smoking) to prevent disturbing the other player.

I can't guarantee that the TD would agree, but I think I would have a good case.

So let's say you are smoking at the beginning of the round, and I am a 20 year smoker who just quit last October, and I tell you, "I'd really appreciate it if you could try extra hard to keep your smoke away from me during the round." you'd say, "Sure dude, that's cool."



Well, I'm a recovering alcoholic and I don't want people drinking beer around me. But I don't say anything or run off to tell on you like some kind of high school dork that wants to get the smokers in trouble. I deal with it!

A good rule of thumb is to not open your mouth unless you are more than willing to back it up.

Oh yeah, if you're not a Christian, I don't want you playing on my card. Is this whats coming next?

Two things in this world drive me crazy. People that b!tch about my smoking, and people that try to push their Religion on me.

banning any legal substance smacks of discrimination.
cigs banned but not skoal. Id rather smell smoke than pick my disc up outa someones spit or discarded chew!!!!!

What is it that I am not getting Gary? That your attempt, though failing, to follow the rules is good enough?

Isn�t that the same as saying well, I wasn�t trying to have a stance violation so even though I did, it�s ok?

Gary, I think that players can and do intimidate other players and TDs into not complying with our rules. I see it every tournament. Whether grouping different divisions or classes together in the first round, or trying to �rationalize� their breaking of the rules (which is precisely what you are doing), I have seen plenty of bullying. The worst of it are these bully threats made in the last 5 posts about how if these �poor sports� are properly called on a rule violation they plan on retaliating with petty calls that don�t really even bother them, and you saying you would take it to the TD!?!

To say what? �That guy is a d!ck! I did everything in my power so that my smoking wouldn�t bother him, and he warned and then stroked me anyway!?! There is no way my smoke bothered him! No way!�

Gary, who can judge if something is bothering them? You, the person doing your best not to bother them, or the person being bothered?

Besides, I know for a fact that �YOU WERE NOT DOING EVERYTHING IN YOUR POWER� not to bother the other players in your group with your smoke, because if you really were doing everything THERE WOULD BE NO SMOKE to begin with.

This is a minor rule point as concerns smoking, it is a huge rules point as concerns the general lack of responsibility and accountability a growing culture of players have. The idea that, �Hey! You�re going to call me on a rule! Well, if you want to play that game, then I�ll call you on every rule in the book!� It�s sickening, it�s pure intimidation, and it is extremely harmful to our sport.

Being a good sportsmen (if this is important to you) includes responding in a none NBA/whiny/excuse/rationalization manner to the rare occasions where you are called on a rules violation. A simple �Thank you, I�ll keep an eye on that.� Will suffice nicely.

I'm thinking the only answer that would make you happy Nick, is if we all said we wouldn't smoke during the entire round. Has this ever actually been a problem in a tournament for you? My jaw pops anytime I eat something (drives my husband nuts) are you going to tell me I can't eat during a round either, because I might be messing up someone's game?

This is a minor rule point as concerns smoking, it is a huge rules point as concerns the general lack of responsibility and accountability a growing culture of players have. The idea that, �Hey! You�re going to call me on a rule! Well, if you want to play that game, then I�ll call you on every rule in the book!� It�s sickening, it�s pure intimidation, and it is extremely harmful to our sport.



What's the saying Nick? Know, Follow, Call? Or is it Know, Follow, Call when it's convenient?

If the rule has too many loopholes to be applied in a consistent manner, this is what happens.

So let's say you are smoking at the beginning of the round, and I am a 20 year smoker who just quit last October, and I tell you, "I'd really appreciate it if you could try extra hard to keep your smoke away from me during the round." you'd say, "Sure dude, that's cool."

Then later in the round you forget and smoke sitting right next to me, smoke coming right at me, that if I gave you a courtesy violation warning that that would be ok.

Here's the kicker though: according to the "Cool" rules, I should not be a tight wad and just remind you again, and again, and again rather than call the rules as they were written and intended to be used, so you might still think I'm being a d!ck if I give you the warning, even with your stated rationale of what is cool and what is not to do.



Nick, in the above scenario, if I were to light up and exhale on/at you then I'd deserve the stroke. But if I were to walk 20 feet away, downwind, just to ensure that you aren't 'bothered', then (based on the way the rule is written) you could still stroke me, because the 'potential' aspect of the rule is poorly contrived. The smoke doesn't even need to be near you, but you can stroke me for it. That's the problem that I have with it.

Golferchic - You have TMJ -Temporomandibular Joint Syndrome-

:D :Dthread drift :D :D

Most cases of TMJ dysfunction can be taken care of by either readjusting a patient's bite or by fitting him or her with a mouth-piece. A special mouth-piece is made to be worn at night to prevent clenching and compression of the joint. This also may help correct the bite. Your dentist should be qualified to do both of these procedures.


Just thought you'd like to know...as I suffer from the same issue...except it doesn't drive my wife crazy

Nick, it is not a question of enforcing some rules, and letting other rules slide. It is a question of whether a rule was broken or not. I have no problem calling any rule that is broken, and put the responsibility on the player that failed to comply with the rules.

A stance violation is clear, It says you will do this or you are in violation. There is no "should" in the rule. It has no best effort interpretation. Either you hit your mark or you don't. It's all up to your ability to perform the required task, and all of the necessary components are under the control of the thrower.

There is no "must" in the courtesy rules concerning smoke. There are too many things not under the control of the player. If a player makes no effort to prevent disturbing other players, or intentionally tries to disrupt the other players games, then a violation is warranted. If the smoking player stays 15' to 20' away from the group while smoking and tries to avoid disturbing the other player, I would say the he is in compliance with the rule.

And if perchance I was asked to watch my smoking because it bothered another player in the group, and I forgot that I was trying to be careful, and lit up a cigarette sitting right beside the other player, I would not complain if he gave me a courtesy violation instead of reminding me.

I had been warned.

It was my own fault that I forgot and acted in a discourteous manner.

No problem, no fuss, no hard feelings, no retaliation.

Besides, I know for a fact that �YOU WERE NOT DOING EVERYTHING IN YOUR POWER� not to bother the other players in your group with your smoke, because if you really were doing everything THERE WOULD BE NO SMOKE to begin with.



You act as if I made the unqualified statement that I was doing everything within my power, my statement which is quoted below was made with qualifications.


I have still taken all reasonable precautions (short of not smoking) to prevent disturbing the other player.



The few times that I have been asked not to smoke, I generally complied, and if I did have 1 or 2 cigarettes during the round, it was well over 50' from the requesting player.

Since the player A has no control over what irritates player B, all that the player A can offer is their best effort to not disturb player B. Also since player A has no way to know whether their efforts are successful or not, it would be nice for player B to notice whether player A is putting forth a realistic effort to comply with their request. If player A is really trying to comply and still failing, I think it is still the responsibility of player B to let player A know that the problem still exists before calling a penalty.

"I'm really sorry you put me in this position of having to call you on this rules violation. I wish you had followed the rules so I wouldn't have to call you on it. Perhaps this will help you to remember it next time."



If you say that, unprovoked, every time you make a call, then yes, you are a dick. I think I'd call a courtesy violation on someone who said that to me.

If you're going to call a rule, just call it. Explain why, if necessary. I know the rules (well, mostly) and if I break one, I'll take my penalty. I may not give you a cheery "thanks!", but that's not because you made the call. I'll just be upset at myself for having slipped up � and I'll try my hardest not to let that affect anyone else.

What I definitely don't need is a patronizing lecture about how sorry you are you had to call me. That's just obnoxious.

"I'm really sorry you put me in this position of having to call you on this rules violation. I wish you had followed the rules so I wouldn't have to call you on it. Perhaps this will help you to remember it next time."



If you say that, unprovoked, every time you make a call, then yes, you are a dick. I think I'd call a courtesy violation on someone who said that to me.

If you're going to call a rule, just call it. Explain why, if necessary. I know the rules (well, mostly) and if I break one, I'll take my penalty. I may not give you a cheery "thanks!", but that's not because you made the call. I'll just be upset at myself for having slipped up � and I'll try my hardest not to let that affect anyone else.

What I definitely don't need is a patronizing lecture about how sorry you are you had to call me. That's just obnoxious.



I'll pass that along to Harold Duvall next time I see him. I haven't actually used the line yet, but it sounded pretty cool to me.

why is that no surprise? you're about as obnoxious as they come.

<font color="green"> 801.01 COURTESY
A. Players should not throw until they are certain that the thrown disc will not distract another player or potentially injure anyone present. Players should watch the other members of their group throw in order to aid in locating errant throws and to ensure compliance with the rules.

B. Players should take care not to produce any distracting noises or any potential visual distractions for other players who are throwing. Examples of discourteous actions are: shouting, cursing, freestyling, slapping course equipment, throwing out of turn, throwing or kicking golf bags, and advancing on the fairway beyond the away player. Shouting at an appropriate time to warn someone in danger of being struck by a disc is not a violation of courtesy.

C. Refusal to perform an action expected by the rules, such as assisting in the search for a lost disc, moving discs or equipment, or keeping score properly, etc., is a courtesy violation.

D. Littering is a courtesy violation.

E. Courtesy dictates that players who smoke should not allow their smoke to disturb other players. Smokers should extinguish their cigarettes and carry their cigarette butts to a trash can. Disposing of cigarette butts by dropping them on the ground is littering.

F. A player violating a courtesy rule may be warned by any affected player, even if from another group, or by an official, with all players of the group advised of the warning. The player shall be assessed one penalty throw for each subsequent courtesy violation of any type in the same round. Repeated violations of courtesy rules may result in disqualification in accordance with section 804.05. </font>

This is pretty self-explanatory. If popping your jaw is distracting, my guess is that you, a courteous golfer, would do your best to not pop it when folks are throwing.

You can smoke until you are grey, just don't let the smoke bother other golfers.

If it does bother another golfer, take the warning courteously as well as any subsequent penalty throws.

This is pretty simple stuff.

So let's say you are smoking at the beginning of the round, and I am a 20 year smoker who just quit last October, and I tell you, "I'd really appreciate it if you could try extra hard to keep your smoke away from me during the round." you'd say, "Sure dude, that's cool."



Well, I'm a recovering alcoholic and I don't want people drinking beer around me. But I don't say anything or run off to tell on you like some kind of high school dork that wants to get the smokers in trouble. I deal with it!

A good rule of thumb is to not open your mouth unless you are more than willing to back it up.

Oh yeah, if you're not a Christian, I don't want you playing on my card. Is this whats coming next?

Two things in this world drive me crazy. People that b!tch about my smoking, and people that try to push their Religion on me.



That's funny stuff. Did you read it somewhere?

banning any legal substance smacks of discrimination.
cigs banned but not skoal. Id rather smell smoke than pick my disc up outa someones spit or discarded chew!!!!!



No one since I have been in this discussion has suggested banning cigs. Following the rules would suffice.

hahaha this is fun! i LOVE being on nicki's ignore list! i get to laugh at his idiosy, call him out with witty,inisghtful and biting comments, and he doesnt even bother me with stupid defensive posturing in response! :)

This is a minor rule point as concerns smoking, it is a huge rules point as concerns the general lack of responsibility and accountability a growing culture of players have. The idea that, �Hey! You�re going to call me on a rule! Well, if you want to play that game, then I�ll call you on every rule in the book!� It�s sickening, it�s pure intimidation, and it is extremely harmful to our sport.



What's the saying Nick? Know, Follow, Call? Or is it Know, Follow, Call when it's convenient?

If the rule has too many loopholes to be applied in a consistent manner, this is what happens.



There is no rule to force people to know, follow or call rules. They simply must want to and understand the reasons why it is important. That's it. It is not an all or nothing deal. Nothing is.

So, why is it important for you to call the rule?

So let's say you are smoking at the beginning of the round, and I am a 20 year smoker who just quit last October, and I tell you, "I'd really appreciate it if you could try extra hard to keep your smoke away from me during the round." you'd say, "Sure dude, that's cool."

Then later in the round you forget and smoke sitting right next to me, smoke coming right at me, that if I gave you a courtesy violation warning that that would be ok.

Here's the kicker though: according to the "Cool" rules, I should not be a tight wad and just remind you again, and again, and again rather than call the rules as they were written and intended to be used, so you might still think I'm being a d!ck if I give you the warning, even with your stated rationale of what is cool and what is not to do.



Nick, in the above scenario, if I were to light up and exhale on/at you then I'd deserve the stroke. But if I were to walk 20 feet away, downwind, just to ensure that you aren't 'bothered', then (based on the way the rule is written) you could still stroke me, because the 'potential' aspect of the rule is poorly contrived. The smoke doesn't even need to be near you, but you can stroke me for it. That's the problem that I have with it.



Who is going to follow around each group and player deciding if they "were doing their best to adhere to the rules, even if they happened to still break the rules"?

We can't make rules that judge intention only result. Asking folks to be mindful of courtesy has to appeal to their sense of right and wrong. A persons sense of right and wrong is not something that can be included in a rule book.

Consider the mess of things such books have historically made of things...

Nick, it is not a question of enforcing some rules, and letting other rules slide. It is a question of whether a rule was broken or not. I have no problem calling any rule that is broken, and put the responsibility on the player that failed to comply with the rules.

A stance violation is clear, It says you will do this or you are in violation. There is no "should" in the rule. It has no best effort interpretation. Either you hit your mark or you don't. It's all up to your ability to perform the required task, and all of the necessary components are under the control of the thrower.

There is no "must" in the courtesy rules concerning smoke. There are too many things not under the control of the player. If a player makes no effort to prevent disturbing other players, or intentionally tries to disrupt the other players games, then a violation is warranted. If the smoking player stays 15' to 20' away from the group while smoking and tries to avoid disturbing the other player, I would say the he is in compliance with the rule.

And if perchance I was asked to watch my smoking because it bothered another player in the group, and I forgot that I was trying to be careful, and lit up a cigarette sitting right beside the other player, I would not complain if he gave me a courtesy violation instead of reminding me.

I had been warned.

It was my own fault that I forgot and acted in a discourteous manner.

No problem, no fuss, no hard feelings, no retaliation.



Cool.

Besides, I know for a fact that �YOU WERE NOT DOING EVERYTHING IN YOUR POWER� not to bother the other players in your group with your smoke, because if you really were doing everything THERE WOULD BE NO SMOKE to begin with.



You act as if I made the unqualified statement that I was doing everything within my power, my statement which is quoted below was made with qualifications.


I have still taken all reasonable precautions (short of not smoking) to prevent disturbing the other player.



The few times that I have been asked not to smoke, I generally complied, and if I did have 1 or 2 cigarettes during the round, it was well over 50' from the requesting player.

Since the player A has no control over what irritates player B, all that the player A can offer is their best effort to not disturb player B. Also since player A has no way to know whether their efforts are successful or not, it would be nice for player B to notice whether player A is putting forth a realistic effort to comply with their request. If player A is really trying to comply and still failing, I think it is still the responsibility of player B to let player A know that the problem still exists before calling a penalty.



This is all good and well, but why is all the responsibility on the non-smoker to judge all of this and think about all of these things and not the guy smoking.

You are apparently a super courteous player, I can only hope all players approach this as you do.

As I have said twice I think, I am not so much concerned with smoking as I am with what I percieve as the perpetuation of the culture of lazy knowledge, adherance and calling of rules as being cool.

If you break a rule, as you point out, then be prepared to deal with the consequences in a manner showing high standards of sportsmenship.

Making threats, as has been frequent here on this thread, is not being a good sport. Those people I would definitely report to the TD, PDGA and possibly the police. They wouldn't be worth fisticuffs and they would be worth removing from organized disc golf.

Besides, I know for a fact that �YOU WERE NOT DOING EVERYTHING IN YOUR POWER� not to bother the other players in your group with your smoke, because if you really were doing everything THERE WOULD BE NO SMOKE to begin with.



You act as if I made the unqualified statement that I was doing everything within my power, my statement which is quoted below was made with qualifications.


I have still taken all reasonable precautions (short of not smoking) to prevent disturbing the other player.



The few times that I have been asked not to smoke, I generally complied, and if I did have 1 or 2 cigarettes during the round, it was well over 50' from the requesting player.

Since the player A has no control over what irritates player B, all that the player A can offer is their best effort to not disturb player B. Also since player A has no way to know whether their efforts are successful or not, it would be nice for player B to notice whether player A is putting forth a realistic effort to comply with their request. If player A is really trying to comply and still failing, I think it is still the responsibility of player B to let player A know that the problem still exists before calling a penalty.



This is all good and well, but why is all the responsibility on the non-smoker to judge all of this and think about all of these things and not the guy smoking.

You are apparently a super courteous player, I can only hope all players approach this as you do.

As I have said twice I think, I am not so much concerned with smoking as I am with what I percieve as the perpetuation of the culture of lazy knowledge, adherance and calling of rules as being cool.

If you break a rule, as you point out, then be prepared to deal with the consequences in a manner showing high standards of sportsmenship.

Making threats, as has been frequent here on this thread, is not being a good sport. Those people I would definitely report to the TD, PDGA and possibly the police. They wouldn't be worth fisticuffs and they would be worth removing from organized disc golf.



Hmmmmmmmmm.............report to the police..............Interesting.

A serious threat of physical harm to person or property is worthy of a police report.