ck34
Jun 18 2005, 12:52 PM
Anyone know the process the USGA uses for group pairings? Looking at the way the twosomes are paired for today's U.S. Open rounds, it's pretty much based on score like the way we do it. However, it doesn't appear the previous round score is used to rank players for groupings. In several cases, a player with a worse prior round is teeing off later than a person they are tied with who had a better prior round.
bruce_brakel
Jun 18 2005, 01:32 PM
It is not in the rules or decisions. It must be a tournament condition.
Learned something new: in golf there is no penalty for teeing out of order unless you intentionally tee out of order to gain an unfair advantage.
larrywhitson
Jun 18 2005, 01:37 PM
<table border="1"><tr><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>1</td><td>BROWNE, Olin </td><td></td><td>-2</td><td></td><td>67</td><td>71</td><td></td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>1</td><td>GOOSEN, Retief </td><td></td><td>-2</td><td></td><td>68</td><td>70</td><td></td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>1</td><td>GORE, Jason </td><td></td><td>-2</td><td></td><td>71</td><td>67</td><td></td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>4</td><td>CHOI, K.J. </td><td></td><td>-1</td><td></td><td>69</td><td>70</td><td></td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>4</td><td>HENSBY, Mark </td><td></td><td>-1</td><td></td><td>71</td><td>68</td><td></td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>6</td><td>CAMPBELL, Michael </td><td></td><td>Even</td><td></td><td>71</td><td>69</td><td></td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>6</td><td>SINGH, Vijay </td><td></td><td>Even</td><td></td><td>70</td><td>70</td><td></td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>6</td><td>GARCIA, Sergio </td><td></td><td>Even</td><td></td><td>71</td><td>69</td><td></td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>6</td><td>WESTWOOD, Lee </td><td></td><td>Even</td><td></td><td>68</td><td>72</td><td></td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>10</td><td>SCOTT, Adam </td><td></td><td>+1</td><td></td><td>70</td><td>71</td><td></td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>10</td><td>FURYK, Jim </td><td></td><td>+1</td><td></td><td>71</td><td>70</td><td></td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>10</td><td>JOBE, Brandt </td><td></td><td>+1</td><td></td><td>68</td><td>73</td><td></td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>10</td><td>WOODS, Tiger </td><td></td><td>+1</td><td></td><td>70</td><td>71</td><td></td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>10</td><td>MEDIATE, Rocco </td><td></td><td>+1</td><td></td><td>67</td><td>74</td><td></td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>10</td><td>ALLAN, Steve </td><td></td><td>+1</td><td></td><td>72</td><td>69</td><td></td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>10</td><td>FUKABORI, Keiichiro </td><td></td><td>+1</td><td></td><td>74</td><td>67</td><td></td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>17</td><td>ARMOUR, Tommy III</td><td></td><td>+2</td><td></td><td>70</td><td>72</td><td></td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>17</td><td>DONALD, Luke </td><td></td><td>+2</td><td></td><td>69</td><td>73</td><td></td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>17</td><td>TOMS, David </td><td></td><td>+2</td><td></td><td>70</td><td>72</td><td></td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>20</td><td>HEDBLOM, Peter </td><td></td><td>+3</td><td></td><td>77</td><td>66</td><td></td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>20</td><td>FLESCH, Steve </td><td></td><td>+3</td><td></td><td>72</td><td>71</td><td></td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>20</td><td>ELKINGTON, Steve </td><td></td><td>+3</td><td></td><td>74</td><td>69</td><td></td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>20</td><td>O\'HERN, Nick </td><td></td><td>+3</td><td></td><td>72</td><td>71</td><td></td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>20</td><td>ESTES, Bob </td><td></td><td>+3</td><td></td><td>70</td><td>73</td><td></td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>20</td><td>PRICE, Nick </td><td></td><td>+3</td><td></td><td>72</td><td>71</td><td></td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>20</td><td>JONES, Steve </td><td></td><td>+3</td><td></td><td>69</td><td>74</td><td></td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>20</td><td>OBERHOLSER, Arron </td><td></td><td>+3</td><td></td><td>76</td><td>67</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td> </tr></td></table>
From usopen.com at 11:30 am before any of these guys have teed off today Sat.
I noticed the difference between how they have their ties ordered and how we would break them in the PDGA. Should have known Chuck would have a thread started about it!!
Perhaps based on posting time??
Nothing else seems to make any sense.
LW
bruce_brakel
Jun 18 2005, 01:42 PM
It looks like random draw to me. It is not hot round. It is not tee order from previous round. It is not alphabetical. Don't know about member number.
larrywhitson
Jun 18 2005, 01:58 PM
I looked at the pairings today and how they ordered them on the final scoreboard after 36.
Definitely posting time. So, Olin Browne was the first one to post -2, Retief posted it next, and Gore after that.
I think.
LW
millerd
Jun 18 2005, 08:12 PM
Usually the first day of the tournament is randomly drawn unless there are some special pairings the tournament wants. Then the second round is in opposite order since the conditions of the greens are worse at the end of the day. This way if you went off early the first day and had greens with no spike marks, the second day you go out late with lots of spike marks. The cut happens after the second round, then they are supposed to be grouped by score. Any ties that occur the player posting the score first is put ahead of players that post the same score later. I'm no expert, but I believe this is how it goes.
ck34
Jun 18 2005, 08:15 PM
With shotgun starts in most of our events, there's no merit to doing the time posting method for setting pairings.
For the first two rounds at the US Open, the groupings are not random. They are chosen by a group within the USGA. Some groups involve the same formula every year: defending US Open champ, British Open champ, and US Amateur champ. Others are done in a way to make them interesting. There was an article in our local newspaper one day last week about it. Unfortunately, I don't see it in the online archives.
drdisc
Jun 23 2005, 01:05 AM
One practice that seems to have gone away, is the seeding of our events. This is the practice of an "A", "B" ,"C" etc player in each group. A really good TD might even mix them up again according to their hometown. OF course his is only for the first round.