I was approached this weekend by two different Pros and told that if I play Open and if I cash (BIG if), I could apply the $ towards scrip at AM worlds during that same year and maintain AM status. I had never heard of that before. In looking at the rules, it says:

"H. PDGA Amateur World Championships Eligibility: Current PDGA members registered in an Amateur division who have not relinquished their amateur status are eligible to play, once invited, in the PDGA Amateur World Championships. A player registered in a Professional division who has not accepted prize money in a sanctioned tournament at any time and who was registered in an Amateur division for the immediately preceding calendar year is eligible to play, once invited, in the PDGA Amateur World Championships."

Is there such a stipulation? And if so, where is it? Otherwise, I'll assume that if you play Open, cash, and accept it--you're an Open player. But if there is a way to play Open for the next 2 months and apply winnings towards AM worlds, that would be great. But logistically I just don't see it being feasible...

Thanks in Advance(d),
Steve ;)

you are right, they are wrong.

you are right, they are wrong.

Somehow I doubt they were merely mistaken! :D

I think Bruce is right. Dem pros were playin' you for a foo'.

Steve,

The problem with the money going to National Ams for entry fees is that every other player is paying cash to enter. In effect they are just asking you to use the cash they would have made and bypass their pocket and send it directly to the National Tournament. Same effect, they cashed out. There is no rule that allows for what they are asking. There is guidance, however, for handling the cash if they didn't accept it.

Jerry, I know what you were trying to say and I couldn't follow that.

1. Accept cash in a Pro division, and you are no longer eligible to compete as an amatuer at Major events.

Would it be legal for a tourney to offer an AM prize of 'entry fee into Worlds'? How is that different than script for discs?

You could probably offer a paid entry, or a paid membership for non-pdga members, but you could not transfer the money to the directly to the player. You would have to purchase the "prize" and award that to the player.

Only at Major events? I thought if you accept cash, then you cannot play any sanctioned events as an AM. Is there some distinction between Major events and non-Majors?
Thanks,
Steve

Starting in 2005, those who have accepted cash in PDGA sanctioned singles (pros) may enter Am divisions in all events except Majors if their rating is below specific break levels identified in the 2005 tour document: http://www.pdga.com/documents/td/05PlayerDivisionsGridFinal.pdf

Bagger, Bagger, Bagger. You've won almost every tourney that you've played this year including the biggest in the state(Master's cup) and have a top five rating in the COUNTRY. Now you're trying to find out if u can cash in pro but apply the winnings to Am Worlds--what 5th place last year wasn't good enough? You got in the money as a pro at a National tour--which shows you are more than ready to play w/ the big boys.
Now, you are a good person and a great player but you're turning into the Matt Scott of the present--are we going to hear in 3-4 years after your 30th win or so that your still waitnig to win Am worlds?--we've heard that the last 4 years already. This isn't a cap apon your person but I'm just telling it like it is. With my 960 player rating I feel It's about time for me to move up--but I would like to play worlds once--and if I come in 5th or 150th I'll still move up. I think it's time for numerous people in norcal to make room for real amateurs. :cool:

Tiger Woods won the amateur nationals three years in a row before moving up. Bobby Jones won the pro Grand Slam and never moved up. There is absolutely no time when anyone has an obligation to play pro. There have always been three or a dozen high rated ams holding out for one more Am Worlds or Am Nationals. If you aren't man enough to lose to a better player and say, "Congratulations, good shooting," you are the one with a problem, not the better player. No one owes it to you to get out of the way so that you can win against mediocre competition.

When Bobby Jones played, his first 2 years (I think) Pro winnings went to the PGA, not his pocket.

hey Geo. I'm almost positive you said that you were going to play open this year. You havn't even tried yet. :confused:
Why is that?
You don't have to accept the cash if you play well.
And it might be good mental practice for the worlds.
Try it.

Hey George,

Yes, I am called a bagger by lots of people! :) However, one of my goals after playing in Worlds last year (8th place, not 5th) was to do it one more time. This year has gone really well, better than I would have hoped. My plan is to finish the NorCal season as an AM, then enter events as a Pro. I only have the Tahoe Pro/AM left, then Worlds, then NorCal championships. The Faultline in Oct will be my first pro event (and being on my home course should help) where I will accept the cash should I be fortunate enough to get some.

I don't think it's fair to compare me to Matt--he's attended multiple World's and has had a high rating for several years. I have not--last year was my first time at Worlds and it was a great experience! And my personal goal is not to win the 2005 AM worlds--it's simply to play well and finish in the top 20. Ideally I can do better than last year, but that will be tough against a strong field and at high elevation. But it will be only my 2nd (and last) AM worlds.

As you point out, there are several of us who SHOULD move up at some point this year--likely after the points season is over for NorCal series. I plan on doing it. I think the list should also include you, Jonah Schmidt, Stan Pratt, Phil Brathewaite (who is going to kick arse!), among others. And Matt accepted cash at the Master's Cup... But in all cases, these are personal reasons, and I'll abide by a person playing where they think they should be, as long as it is legal!

Have a great day!
Steve :D:D/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Fisrt, I apologize to Steve, that was a little harsher than I intended it to be. When I read your post/question it made me think "oh no, another Matt." But that's not fair to u, he's on (or was I guess) a completley different bagg'n level ((inside NorCal joke)) he, he, he. So, sorry for that as well, Steve. He'll do good :) I've seen/played with you the last couple of years and you've become an excellent golfer-that's for sure. Especialley when you're winning tourneys where we play. But, I thought for sure when u got top 10 last year that u'd play pro.

You should go to nationals this year like Jonah and myself did last year. We planned on doing nationals last year and worlds this year. Then pro. If you have a chance to play Michigan, you should. It doesn't matter which one u play but it was the most professionally fun tourney I ever played--and the best player's pack I've ever gotten for $75--and on that note--Bruce, you're right, no one owes me anything in this sport, we all give to make this sport work. I don't want people to "get out of my way so that I can win"-- what's the fun in that. It sounds like u think ams should be able to be am indefinitely--that's just stoopid. You can't sit at the top and take plastic forever, and the pdga needs to address this subject. And in the end you only get better by being challenged by other good players--not by beating them over and over(unless tey're the best in the world).

There needs to be a mandatory bump line--like 980-that when you reach that level you are not allowed to play an am tourney--period. If your rating drops then you probabley haven't cash and can play ams, but this "recommended" 950 invisible line has got to go. The sub Am 1 divisions are o.k. but am to pro needs to be changed. This I think creates anamosity among players. If you had 950-979 as adv am., then more room would be made for the lower ranks and people would know that where they are playing is correct. All we have now is tons of people calling the elite ams as baggers--including myself, and have gotten my fair share of it as well. There has to be a mando pro at some point--and this sport should be the first to start it.

Sorry for the long post.... and Sug, I have played some non legite pro tourneys--but can't afford to give my money away to u and Sontag and Brad as of yet, but it will come. Jonah and myself have always said Nationals last year, worlds this year, and then norcal champs/pro. Peace

Hi George,

No offense taken, and no apology necessary! This is all just about opinions anyways. I agree with a lot of what you say with regard to AM 1. In 2003, when I first switched to AM 1, it was depressing. However, by 2004 I was improving, and part of that was not so much that I played with better golfers, but that I was tired of being beaten, so I had to raise my own level of play by practicing and being a little more serious.

But I don't know where the line should be drawn between AM 1 and Pro. I think that's where the "color"-coded tournaments come in (gold, bronze, et al.), where players with similar ratings play against each other.

In addition, the rating thing is a bit overrated (pun intended!). I look at who beat who. For example, I played against Phil Brathewaite last weekend--he's in the 960s, so by ratings, I was above him. However, in skill, I BARELY clung on--had it been a Final 12 instead of a Final 9, he would have caught me for sure. Since your rating is based on, in part, the tournaments played in, the competition, etc., it can mask good players (infrequent players) or elevate those who play lots of tournaments and periodically have some good rounds. Rather than taking the top 20 rounds, I'd like to see the rating consist of a true running mean, which would give you a clearer indication of how well that player has done most recently.

And I'd love to do Nationals--I hear the course is hard, but it's so close to the World's in timing that the rest of life gets in the way... :)

I hope we get to play together at World's--last year was wonderful, and I'm looking forward to another positive experience.

Take care!
Steve

Rather than taking the top 20 rounds, I'd like to see the rating consist of a true running mean, which would give you a clearer indication of how well that player has done most recently.




It's almost a true running mean and the 8 most recent are now doubled. We've never done top X rounds.

Bagger, Bagger, Bagger. You've won almost every tourney that you've played this year including the biggest in the state(Master's cup) and have a top five rating in the COUNTRY. Now you're trying to find out if u can cash in pro but apply the winnings to Am Worlds--what 5th place last year wasn't good enough? You got in the money as a pro at a National tour--which shows you are more than ready to play w/ the big boys.
Now, you are a good person and a great player but you're turning into the Matt Scott of the present--are we going to hear in 3-4 years after your 30th win or so that your still waitnig to win Am worlds?--we've heard that the last 4 years already. This isn't a cap apon your person but I'm just telling it like it is. With my 960 player rating I feel It's about time for me to move up--but I would like to play worlds once--and if I come in 5th or 150th I'll still move up. I think it's time for numerous people in norcal to make room for real amateurs. :cool:



Doh!! :o

Get 'um George...... :D

Matt Scott...that kills me..."Look at me, Im the BEST AM in Santa Cruz..." oops, not any more....

Now there are 2 PRO LEVEL baggers in Santa Cruz

:D

hey Geo. I'm almost positive you said that you were going to play open this year. You havn't even tried yet. :confused:
Why is that?
You don't have to accept the cash if you play well.
And it might be good mental practice for the worlds.
Try it.



Yes he has........non-sanctioned...and he won(Boont-Fling, Anderson Valley Brewing Company) :o

Heck he beat me and Ive already won a sanctioned event this year :eek: ;)

Yea, your a "Bagger too, George" :D

It does look like our "Rookie of the Year" Battle, next year, will be a good one :D
But then who will Matt Scott play with....Himself?? /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

:D