This disc is going to be HOT!! Faster than a roc, and just dead stable.

sounds like a gateway e element. who said that?

I throw mine yesterday and this disc is great for shoots three hundred feet and under that need to stay dead strait. The disc has a slow pull right at high speeds, and slight fade to the left at low speeds. It will hold what ever line you put it on from hyzer to anhyzer. This disc is a vary technical and versatile midrange that will be useable by all skill levels.

We'll see. I'm very skeptical that a large-diameter disc could ever replace my beloved Gremlin as an arrow-straight midrange, but I'm looking forward to finding out.

I forgot to say that it has tremendous glide.

What does it look like???

Sounds like a 1st Run flat top Z BUZZZ to me :eek:

A cross between a buzz, aero, and breeze.

So basicly what you're sayin is it flies like a slightly more stable Comet! :D

A cross between a buzz, aero, and breeze.



Brazero?

It Looks like a condor with a blunt nose that looks like the front of an ice breaker ship, or the graph of natural log (ln).

Thanks for clearing that up.

It Looks like a condor with a blunt nose that looks like the front of an ice breaker ship, or the graph of natural log (ln).



WOW....I understood that. Nice description!

So its a QMS?

okay, maybe he understands it, but i sure dont...

WHAT??? Can i just throw this thing?

A e^x curve looks like this, which is what the disc looks like. Not a natural log curve sorry about that.
http://www.mste.uiuc.edu/malcz/ExpFit/ex.gif

All players at the upcoming Greater Des Moines Challenge are getting a Coyote in their players packages. The Ams players packages are worth way more than their entry fees.

We are accepting registrations until June 14th now.

I want one, where can I get it????

http://www.innovadiscs.com/discs/championCoyote.html

no star stamp for the coyote?
maybe it's not first run time yet, or how about second than third than first.
WTF

Post deleted by widiscgolf

thanks cheese head, hows the weather?

Just purchased one. I'm going out for a test drive.
:D

Got to throw one of these yesterday. It was a disc in the players pack at the Greater Des Moines Challenge. After throwing it around for like 30 minutes...I came to the conclusion that this disc couldn't do anyting that my putter couldn't do. So...I am gonna have to give a thumbs down on this one.

Hmmmmmm..............The one I just purchased is 180grams.

Wonder if the weight makes much difference ?

Large diameter discs hit more trees.

Same size as a Roc. This disc has one sweet flight to it. It will hold a line forever and has more glide than a beat in ROC or a Buzz.

This disc will find it's way into alot of player's bags.

Same size as a Roc. This disc has one sweet flight to it. It will hold a line forever and has more glide than a beat in ROC or a Buzz.

This disc will find it's way into alot of player's bags.



Nice.............

Threw one today with different release angles.

Thrown hard with a little hyzer , This disc flys flat and direct.

Thrown with a little turnover , it holds a nice distance turn.

Thrown with a little turnover with nose up , it turns over and comes out at the end , like a slightly beaten up Roc.

For those who like to throw the Discraft Buzz , but want to throw Innova plastic...........here you go !!!!!! :D

I would compare the coyote more to the breeze than the buzzz.

I threw the coyote this weekend. It flew like a champ cobra to me. Maybe a bit more glide. Probably won't be going in my bag.

For those who like to throw the Discraft Buzz , but want to throw Innova plastic...........here you go !!!!!! :D

[/QUOTE]

If you throw a buzzz Why would you want to throw Innova?

If you throw a buzzz Why would you want to throw Innova?



Thats what Im saying!!!!

Steve, as long as you stay in that mindset we can continue to swap discs. Got any Coyotes?

For those who like to throw the Discraft Buzz , but want to throw Innova plastic...........here you go !!!!!! :D



If you throw a buzzz Why would you want to throw Innova?

[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that was the stupidest things I've read in a while....throw whatever flies right for you regardless of who makes it. Its people in that mindset that are missing out on good discs from other manufacturers.

For those who like to throw the Discraft Buzz , but want to throw Innova plastic...........here you go !!!!!! :D



If you throw a buzzz Why would you want to throw Innova?

[/QUOTE]

Some guys Only throw Innova. Just like some guys Only throw Discraft. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I like discs that are consistant. That's why I choose to throw Innova.
Only I can control my game , not my plastic controlling me.

How many guys have you ever heard , Totally Yelling at their plastic ?

Not always the plastic....................well sometimes !!!!! :D

For those who like to throw the Discraft Buzz , but want to throw Innova plastic...........here you go !!!!!! :D



If you throw a buzzz Why would you want to throw Innova?



Yeah, that was the stupidest things I've read in a while....throw whatever flies right for you regardless of who makes it. Its people in that mindset that are missing out on good discs from other manufacturers.

[/QUOTE]

After my performance this weekend, it may be highly likely that i will be switching manufacturers...but im not sure which one.

All I can say is , Be true to yourself.

You are your best judge on what works best for you.
It is OK to experiment , but , how bad do you want to win ?

Nobody likes to lose.

For myself , I would rather blame myself than the plastic I'm throwing !!!!!

All my Innova discs , go where I intend to throw them. Always have. No guess work.

I just need to be Physically able to keep up with the Phenomal Technology of the new plastic.

/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

So you never throw a bad shot? Why don't you win every tournament you enter?but seriously......unless you are payed to, keeping all the options open will result in a better bag of discs.

All I can say is , Be true to yourself.

You are your best judge on what works best for you.
It is OK to experiment , but , how bad do you want to win ?

Nobody likes to lose.

For myself , I would rather blame myself than the plastic I'm throwing !!!!!

All my Innova discs , go where I intend to throw them. Always have. No guess work.

I just need to be Physically able to keep up with the Phenomal Technology of the new plastic.

/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



I thought all my Innova discs went where they were supposed to. I lost a ProLine Beast,Sidewinder, and Roc this weekend, replaced them with the EXACT same ones as i lost and in the same condition, and played the absolute worst tournament I have ever entered. The discs were not even close to the ones i lost and cost me many, many strokes. That is why i am seriously considering switching.

Everyone has a bad tourney Aaron. Some people, like me, have lots. Its the Indian homes, not the arrow. Youll bounce back like always. DM was rough.

So you never throw a bad shot? Why don't you win every tournament you enter?but seriously......unless you are payed to, keeping all the options open will result in a better bag of discs.



Sorry Dude........don't know who you are. :(

Hey Aaron ,

It happens..............sometimes I think it's the plastic too !!!!!!

Once I realize it's me.........everything starts working again.

Part of life , no one is perfect all the time.

Give yourself a break. Don't make it harder on yourself than you need you. Remember , it will get only as Intense as you make it !!!!! Relax a bit. Sounds like your a good enough player to bounce back after rounds like that. :D

Yeah it only the arrow when it's innova :o

sorry, Chase Couldnt help it! :D

Did you get to play with Matt Hall, nikko or Chris Boro in des moines?

I though this post was about the Coyote... how the heck did it turn into (like hundreds of other posts) a manufacturer discussion...

Coyote=Buzzzzzzzzz

Coyote=Buzzzzzzzzz



Maybe in flight, but its shape looks like an Element with a puffy wing.

Coyote=Buzzzzzzzzz



Hmmm.

If Coyote=Buzzz
And Buzzz=Brand New, first throw KC Roc
Then Coyote=KC Roc?

The coyote is supposed to have high speed turn, slight low speed fade, am I missing something? Or did they just redo the Roc?

I just got mine last night, will try it out this afternoon. It doesn't feel at all like a Roc. Almost like a smaller Aero.

I think a brand new, first throw 11x KC Roc is a bit more overstable than a Buzz. But maybe that's just me.

And Buzzz=Brand New, first throw KC Roc




more like , buzzz=2 year old beat kc roc

: ) :

well you were right the first time also. The natural log is the inverse of e^x, so the curves are the same for what you mean. Its just mirrored over the y = x line.

At least someone else knows.

I just got mine last night, will try it out this afternoon. It doesn't feel at all like a Roc. Almost like a smaller Aero.




Thats what I thought. There is virtually no difference.

Yeah it only the arrow when it's innova :o

sorry, Chase Couldnt help it! :D

Did you get to play with Matt Hall, nikko or Chris Boro in des moines?




No, I didnt get to play with any of them. They were all playing disc golf, whereas I was out there on a walking tour of the woods and shule. I got to watch some of Chris' holes and some of Matts. Nikko and I have been talking between rounds since J&B. Hes a good kid. Puts alot of pressure on himself to perform well. Eventually, he will smash people.... When he goes all Innova. :D

Coyote=Buzzzzzzzzz



Oh no they didn't! :D

My Hero threw an Innova disc. :o

:o

Close :

Depends again on arm speed and the player throwing.

KC Roc : New , Slightly overstable.

Buzz : New , Stable to Slightly understable.

Coyote : New , Slightly Stable to understable.

Champion Panther : New , Slighty more stable to Stable.

Drone : New , Overstable to Slightly overstable.

Wasp : New , More Overstable .

Original Super Roc : Sweet..........no , you can't have mine !!!! :eek:

I still think that the Buzzz comparison is way off base...look at a profile of the shapes...two totally different discs...the Coyote is closer to an Element than anything else.

Regardless of arm speed, how a player compares discs to others will be relatively the same. A roc compared to a buzzz for me is the same as a roc compared to a buzzz for you. Granted I may turn mine more or less then you do, but the differences are still the same. Some people can turn over Firebirds, some cannot, but it is still an overstable disc, only a doofus would say a firebird is understable.

Not to hijack, but I thought the Element was a perfect cross between a Roc and a Buzzz. Both in flight characteristics and feel.

Are people comparing flat or domey buzzz's? Because the intended mold is flat, some ended up domey. The domey ones are understable, but the flat ones fade fairly hard at the end.

So, maybe the Coyote is like a domey buzzz?

Threw the Coyote yesterday, 174g. Was happy with the results, very straight easy to throw. I started playing disc golf in '84 with a Aero, the Coyote felt like the Aero in the hand. It'll stay in the bag for more rounds.

sounds like a good replacement for my limited supply of SM sharks :cool::D

sounds like a good replacement for my limited supply of SM sharks :cool::D


I was thinking that too. I got to throw Walt Haneys yesterday (sorry for taking your brand new disc and hitting a tree on the first throw :o). Only a few throws, but I will definately have to pick up one. My opinion, since I throw the element and element x, is it is very similar in feel and in flight. Course, so is the Shark. Maybe a bit longer than a shark and the elements though. Needs more research.

I still think that the Buzzz comparison is way off base...look at a profile of the shapes...two totally different discs...the Coyote is closer to an Element than anything else.




What Elements do you guys have? The Elements I have look like a Roc or a QMS. The Coyote is most like an Aero. Put 2 together, and youll see. Flyin Vegas was right.

I had the same question, what elements are you throwing... I have an Element and Element X both S 178g and they are both less stable than my Champ Cobra. The X is workable but the Element is almost too understable to be used as anthing but a roller. But back to this thread, anyone know how the Coyote compares to a Champion Cobra?

I had never thrown it before, then i threw it last night in league and had about 5 ace runs. Just seemed like it went really high for some reason every time i threw it, then it would hyzer right at the hole at the end of the flight. An odd disc, still not sure if i like it.

What I meant by my statement is that the roc, wasp, shark, etc have a sharp undercut lip and the element, coyote, glide, etc have a smooth rounded lip. Elements and glides do not take well to overpowering, bad form, wrist roll, torquing whereas the roc/shark style discs are more forgiving. If you are throwing them like a roc then they will fip over into a roller.

My guess is so will the Coyote due to the similar lip design. But, thrown softer (say 60-75% of a roc throw) and smoothly they will fly just as far as a roc or a shark. They are definately a finesse disc with a lower cruse speed and a longer glide. Need more time on the Coyote, but given the similarities to the glide/breeze, element, and other discs in this catagory I would say they will also not be condusive to a overpowering bad form throw. (Not saying your form is bad I have seen people turn over a DX Valkyrie and others throw it over 500 feet or on a hyzer line. Everyone is different and not all discs are for the masses) That's the point I was trying to make and the question I was wondering about.

I still think that the Buzzz comparison is way off base...look at a profile of the shapes...two totally different discs...the Coyote is closer to an Element than anything else.


What Elements do you guys have? The Elements I have look like a Roc or a QMS. The Coyote is most like an Aero. Put 2 together, and youll see. Flyin Vegas was right.



Yeah, they are similar to QMS as well...and as far as whoever said they are rollers? They aren't power discs, both the QMS and Element need finesse and they fly great!

Anyone have a Coyote they want to trade? Or an Aurora MS or QMS?

I have Des Moines Coyotes. cash or trade. New Discs only, unless its worthy.

theirs no way we need another understable midrange!!!!
whats wrong with the roc???or the cobra or the gremlin.....................I could go on... :confused:

Hmmmmmmmmm...............ever thrown a Midnight Flyer ?

Flys like a new 40g* , but faster !!!!!!

How's that for showing my age !!!!!!

It is a line drive disc. I throw it with a touch of Hyzer just below the horizon line /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

For distance turnover , I throw it above the horizon line , and lean into it some. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I think I have figured it out after a round or two !!!!!

Waiting to get my first ace with it !!!!! :D

Sweet flying disc threw it a bunch today playing catch. Might make an appearance in my bag.

i was thinking mine might make an appearance at burlington this weekend
i kinda like it
MJ

[QUOTE]
Hmmmmmmmmm...............ever thrown a Midnight Flyer ?--Flys like a new 40g* , but faster !!!!!! [/quote

I said the exact thing this afternoon. Throw it just like I was playing catch with a 40 or 50 mold.

[QUOTE]
Hmmmmmmmmm...............ever thrown a Midnight Flyer ?--Flys like a new 40g* , but faster !!!!!! [/quote

I said the exact thing this afternoon. Throw it just like I was playing catch with a 40 or 50 mold.



Yeah?? :cool:I�ll order a handful!! :D

coyote,...best disc innova has come out with in a very long time
MJ

coyote,...best disc innova has come out with in a very long time



I'd have to agree, goes where you intend it to with little effort.

rocthrowinfoo says: theirs no way we need another understable midrange!!!! whats wrong with the roc???or the cobra or the gremlin.....................I could go on...

For old guys like me, those are all OVERSTABLE discs out of the box. The least stable of the midrange discs I've found was a Ron Russell Comet, although there may be the odd stratus that is less stable. What I want is a DURABLE long-distance roc-type midrange that is less stable than a Comet, but not sick understable like an Optimizer.

Innova, discraft and gateway are basically filling holes in the market for understable plastic for beginners and "elders". Us younger guys can use discs that the aforementioned people cannot dream of using, and we can make them turnover.

It's all marketing and customer service.

What are you talking about? What disc is it that these players can't dream of using?

Innova, discraft and gateway are basically filling holes in the market for understable plastic for beginners and "elders". Us younger guys can use discs that the aforementioned people cannot dream of using, and we can make them turnover.

It's all marketing and customer service.



Like What Exactly ? I'm considered an Elder !!!!!

You 50 yet ?

I have thrown , with accuracy , these following Discs :

Metal Head Viper --( Both Original and second generation )
Monster , Champion Whippet X , FX , F , FL - FireBirds.
Wicked X-outs..........are those the ones your dreaming about ? /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Gateway SpeedDemon , Spirit , Blaze , Apache , Warrior.
Each of those in the Really Overstable runs !!!!!!

Discraft : Extreme , X-clone and the Excess version.
Phantom II.

What Market ? How many more Overstable Discs do you want ?

Everything Eventually turns over anyway !!!!!

I Have a Slightly beat Monster than does everything !!!!!!
As well as a Candy Champion FireBird !!!!!!!!

Innova makes some of the Most Stable Discs on the market !!!!

Just because they are Beat up a little , does that make them Trick Discs ? /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Not always the Disc........... :eek:

How does the Coyote compare to the Wolf, like a brother or a cousin?

Like everything, there are exceptions. There are tons of "elders" who have been along long enough to be of the mentality "only a few discs, make them do everything". My statements are obviously not all emcomassing.

Beginners don't or really shouldn't be throwing a disc more stable then an Orc or a Roc. They should start out with more understable plastic that their underdeveloped disc golf arms can handle and control. I hate seeing beginners carrying a Firebird because that is what their buddy had left over.

As for the older guys. With exceptions that some people stay in great shape for their entier lifes, there are also people with joint and muscle problems and may not be able to throw as hard as they used to. These understable discs, like the Sidewinder help them re-reach the distances they used to.

If you are 50+ and can still chuck a Firebird over 400ft, kudos, I hope I am in that great of shape when I am that age. Right now I am 25 and in great shape concerning my muscle strength and joints. I will enjoy my youth to it's fullest as that is the advice of some of my older friends and family.

You wanted an example of a disc that beginners cannot "dream" of throwing? How about a CFR Starfire? I do not know about you, but I can get this disc to turn over if I don't release it with enough hyzer (not a lot, just a few degrees). And yes, that is a 175g Starfire.

Gee, I am sorry if I ticked you off. Either way, it is a niche that does need to be filled in order to attract more players to our sport right?

How does the Coyote compare to the Wolf, like a brother or a cousin?



More like a Drunk Uncle !!!!! :eek: No , just kidding !!!!!!

The Wolf , for myself , flips over and rolls great.

The Coyote is a Mid-range driver.
I haven't had the chance to really beat my new one up enough yet for a roller disc.

Fly's like a slightly beat up Roc , if that helps any.

Put it this way , you don't have to beat it up.

Fly's straight , out of the box !!!!!

You wanted an example of a disc that beginners cannot "dream" of throwing? How about a CFR Starfire? I do not know about you, but I can get this disc to turn over if I don't release it with enough hyzer (not a lot, just a few degrees). And yes, that is a 175g Starfire.

Hmmmmmmmm.....................me too...
I have different Starfires , that do different things !!!!
Some are great rollers and others , you can't get them to turn ,even if you ran them over with a truck.

Gee, I am sorry if I ticked you off. Either way, it is a niche that does need to be filled in order to attract more players to our sport right?

Ticked me off !!!!!!! :D Not a chance. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I help more new players, than I can Shank drives on a bad day !!!!! :eek: :D

No , you are right though. New players , or newbees , should not be throwing 180 gram Vipers or 175 gram Monsters , just because their friend has a really cool Orange one or something like that.

I usually provide them with a disc , like my beat roller or a beat up Stingray......something that will Still , probably hold Hyzer for them. You know , Flippy Discs. They are perfect for newer players , who do not know the flight concept or the terms , AnHyzer , Mung , Flex or Hyzer yet. :D

Sorry If I tricked you /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif Was only to get a reaction :o

I won a coyote at the Nashville Vapor Trails tournament last weekend... I LOVE this disc. Within just a couple days this has become my favorite mid range disc. It holds a beautiful anhyzer line and has tremendous glide. I have even thrown it as a short range roller and sidearm approach with good results. I'm not sure how well it compares to a ROC because I am not a fan of rocs (don't like the big bead). I would say that the coyote is similar to the buzz but with better glide.

The only problem I have had with the disc is getting a good grip on it, as it seems to slip out of my hand easily. It took a little experimenting but after a few throws I was throwing this disc over 300 feet easily - it has definetly earned a spot in my bag.

everyone is raving about the glide but this disc does not have the glide of the buzzz. Its distance on a straight line is shorter than roc/buzzz

everyone is raving about the glide but this disc does not have the glide of the buzzz. Its distance on a straight line is shorter than roc/buzzz




I disagree. I think it easily has the glide of the Buzzz. I finally broke one out tonight, and was impressed. I am a QMS thrower, usaully carry a new and a used { both opaque} and have been on the Buzzz for about 2 months. I took them all out for a round tonight and took a Coyote and, although this is still pending, have no reason to put them back. I parked all but 2 of the holes I threw it on, and 8 ace run holes after the round. I threw it on all the lines I could, even forehand. I tossed it to a friend who threw a 350ft. anhyser bomb that S ed back nicely. It was impressive. Very easy to throw, and my only concern is how it holds up in a wind.

My first impressions are that this is one fantastic disc. It is similar to the champion aero, but in my opinion, straighter an easier to control. It is a very versatille do it all disc. Back in the day I loved the XD (original mold, original plastic circa 1987-1991), it was my go to disc inside 320'.
I'm optimisticly thinking this disc will have the same predictability/control that the old style XD had, but with the candy durablity.

Back in the day I loved the XD (original mold, original plastic circa 1987-1991), it was my go to disc inside 320'.
I'm optimisticly thinking this disc will have the same predictability/control that the old style XD had, but with the candy durablity.



Nice Steve! Now I want to try this disc too... I feel the same way about those old XDs - I've been hoarding any I can put my hands on. ;)

Did you ever dry out after that swim at BWine? Thanks again for helping me get my disc back! :D

Yes,Lindsay I did dry out. The dip in the Brandywine creek was actually refreshing. Mark Spang loaned me a pair of socks for the second round and the wind dried my pants after about an hour so it was all good.

I'm glad I could save your trusted friend (sidewinder) from swimmin' wid da fishes. If my impinged shoulder gets better I'll see ya at worlds if not at the Jersey Jam.

a big candy XD without the bead, can't wait to get my hands on one.

You will like it.

I throw mine , with a touch of Hyzer.

It comes up flat and rides !!!!!

For turnover shots , aim high and flip it a little.

It's like having a Candy Roc that is broken in.

GREAT disc. i just got one with the des moines stamp, and am loving it after the first couple of tosses.

I'm loving my new Coyote that I just received today. It went straight into the bag after some long/short toss with a friend, Krash. Very predictable. Thanks, Dave. Sweet mid-range.

what, so no more rocs? say it aint so.....

I like the coyote, I plan on using it for those anhyzer midrange shots...i'll stick with the kc 10x for any other midrange shot.

what, so no more rocs? say it aint so.....



nothing will ever make me take rocs out of my bag

what, so no more rocs? say it aint so.....



nothing will ever make me take rocs out of my bag



a call from discraft would

I've thrown the mrv, comet, wasp, and buzz....the wasp stayed in my bag, but my rocs out performed the buzz

what, so no more rocs? say it aint so.....



The coyote fits my hand nicely...better so than the Roc. At least it's still Innova.

I tried out my brand-spankin' new 167 Coyote today at Pratt Park. Took my 10x Aviar out of the bag & put the Coyote in and . . . aced #16 with it! All in all, it felt a little weird in my hand, but it gets a longer audition just for that one toss.

what, so no more rocs? say it aint so.....



The coyote fits my hand nicely...better so than the Roc. At least it's still Innova.



return from the dark side, pterry, use the force!

its nothing like a buzzzz. you cant compare it to a buzzzz. A panther or aviar mix yes. How about the PANTIAR :o

it is alot like the Z glide.

its nothing like a buzzzz. you cant compare it to a buzzzz. A panther or aviar mix yes. How about the PANTIAR :o

it is alot like the Z glide.




The Z glide is even less stable {IMO}. I tossed my Buzzz out after one round with the Coyote.

I haven't read any negative reviews yet and mine isn't 100% negative, but lets just say its first audition wasn't pleasant.

I went out yesterday with my newly purchased Coyote and was SUPER excited from all the reviews I had read. I started off with a shorter whole of about 235ft. It is a gentle hyzer shot with large trees in fairway. I threw my normal leopard shot and parked it 1ft from the pole. Then I pulled out my Coyote just for testing purposes to see what happenens. I threw it and it went VERY high and turned over to the right. I thought well it was just me poor form or something. I birdied out and went to the next hole. Tight launching area 245 hyzer with tree near hole. I throw my leopard again and to my surprise it lands about 8ft from the hole. I take out the Coyote again and give it a whirl, again high hooking to the right into the trees. Again I say well probably my form.

Next whole 500+ ft whole. I throw and hit about 350ft or so and have around 150 left to the hole. I pull out the coyote again. And again it flew high and to the right but this time hyzered back in to around 15ft from the whole.

In all I am not going to judge this disc on three holes. But either I am having a hard time with the release of this disc or something just isn't working out for me and the Coyote. I really hope I can take it out again in a few days and give it another go. The weird thing is a LOVE my panther and it feels allot like it. Not sure whats going on.

Would appreciate hearing someone compare and contrast the Coyote to the QMS and/or Aurora MS (Millenium discs). thanks...

Would appreciate hearing someone compare and contrast the Coyote to the QMS and/or Aurora MS (Millenium discs). thanks...



...not as good :o...maybe a touch straighter on deceleration.

I started off with a shorter hole of about 235ft. (snip) I threw my normal leopard shot and parked it 1ft from the pole. Then I pulled out my Coyote just for testing purposes to see what happenens. I threw it and it went VERY high and turned over to the right. I thought well it was just me poor form or something. I birdied out and went to the next hole. Tight launching area 245 hyzer with tree near hole. I throw my leopard again and to my surprise it lands about 8ft from the hole. I take out the Coyote again and give it a whirl, again high hooking to the right into the trees. Again I say well probably my form.
Next whole 500+ ft whole. I throw and hit about 350ft or so and have around 150 left to the hole. I pull out the coyote again. And again it flew high and to the right but this time hyzered back in to around 15ft from the hole.
The weird thing is a LOVE my panther and it feels allot like it. Not sure whats going on.



Other than you're Leopard, what midrange do you normally throw for shots in that range? I would say if you don't turn that Panther ( 5 3 -2 +1) over then you shouldn't be turning over that Coyote (4 4 -1 +1) so bad :confused: I should have one to try out in the next 2 days.
Remember, the coyote is a speed 4 so if you throw it the same arm speed as the Panther (speed 5) the numbers may skew a bit to more like 4 4 -2 0 IMO but that still should be close to the same flight. I have some other guesses about this disc and how it will work into the game, but I will hold them until I can confirm when I get a couple hundred throws with it.

. At least it's still Innova.

[/QUOTE]

what does that have to do with anything......
Anyway...the Buzz is the truest midrange of all....However, i am a stability ***** so i throw rocs....But i use a buzz for long turnovers....Dont hate on DC....We need competition in the discgolf market....

Would appreciate hearing someone compare and contrast the Coyote to the QMS and/or Aurora MS (Millenium discs). thanks...



...not as good :o...maybe a touch straighter on deceleration.




Have you really thrown either of these discs? I threw Opaque QMS' for 2 years, and they are on a shelf now. The Coyote is a better disc in almost every way. If there is any complaints out of me, the QMS will hold anhy all the way to the target. The Coyote { new} will pull out slightly. Im sure this will change after a little aging. This will be the most populaur mid- range by the fall. I hit a downhill ACE worth 215$ with it this weekend, so it stays.

Would appreciate hearing someone compare and contrast the Coyote to the QMS and/or Aurora MS (Millenium discs). thanks...



...not as good :o...maybe a touch straighter on deceleration.




Have you really thrown either of these discs? I threw Opaque QMS' for 2 years, and they are on a shelf now. The Coyote is a better disc in almost every way. If there is any complaints out of me, the QMS will hold anhy all the way to the target. The Coyote { new} will pull out slightly. Im sure this will change after a little aging. This will be the most populaur mid- range by the fall. I hit a downhill ACE worth 215$ with it this weekend, so it stays.



What is the difference bewteen the two? Sounds like the Coyote has more low speed fade when thrown with anhyzer. What about the hi-speed part of flight? Which is straighter and which flexes more?

Is the Coyote like a Champ Cobra?

I picked up a Coyote and have been using it exclusively in place of my Rocs. For me personally it's no miracle disc. If you throw it nose up it hyzers hard. It doesn't hold a line like my Rocs and doesn't handle headwinds at all. I spent a week playing a course in Michigan (Ludington) the wind blows there all the time and I was going to a D-Buzz for consistency. I feel I have good form but maybe I have trained myself on Rocs and this is just too different.. It's not a bad disc but it won't be in my bag.

In my hands the Coyote is nothing like the Cobra. In fact in my hands the Coyote is nothing like the Coyote :).

For me the disc flew significantly understable. At least part of that was that it was coming out of my hand late due to the different rim. Once out it flew true to form, very straight with very little or no fade. If you've got a light touch the Coyote might be the disc for you.

One thing I did like about the disc was upshots. I use a rigid grip upshot for approaches up to 230 feet where I don't reach back and put full snap on the disc. This is my high accuracy approach shot. On these kinds of shots the Coyote seems to come out straight and stay straight with no fade. This is very useful when you are making a long run at the basket and you want to stay close. However, because I am use to the claw shaped rims of the Cobra and other midranges I decided not to try and adjust to the Coyote

If you like the Cobra, you might think about trying one of the 150 class Champion versions. In my hands it flies very much like the Coyote and I didn't have to learn a new rim. It comes out and works it's way right to left and does not fade out at the end. Nice slow understable midrange.

Thanks Lyle. That was the kind of comparison I wanted with the Cobra. I throw 3-4 weights of Champ Cobras from 150 to 180 for different situations. Best all around disc in my hands. I've got a couple of Coyote's that I haven't used yet. We shall see and report back.

Chase:
Yeah, I've thrown both, and between the two I like the QMS a little better for most shots...for long anhyzers I guess the Coyote is a little better b/c the flexation adds distance while still getting right. SO...I guess its not a bad disc, I just think that there are better out there already.

. At least it's still Innova.



what does that have to do with anything......
Anyway...the Buzz is the truest midrange of all....However, i am a stability ***** so i throw rocs....But i use a buzz for long turnovers....Dont hate on DC....We need competition in the discgolf market....

[/QUOTE]
Maybe if you had read back to Mr. Toad's inquiry, you'd see that it has everything to do with Innova.
Also, I didn't hate on DC. I only gave props to Innova for the Coyote (what this thread is all about) in comparing it to the Roc. By the way, I have a Z-Buzzz in my bag. And to think you wanted a black and tan...

Chase:
Yeah, I've thrown both, and between the two I like the QMS a little better for most shots...for long anhyzers I guess the Coyote is a little better b/c the flexation adds distance while still getting right. SO...I guess its not a bad disc, I just think that there are better out there already.




Lemme guess....like a Element?

what do you call a floating coyote?

Depends on the Thrower !!!!! /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Cool disc for distance turnover shots.
Cool disc for medium , midrange shots.

Longer midrange , I have been throwing a Champion Viking !!!!!
Low and Flat...............It Hums !!!!! Yea baby !!!!!!! :cool:

No, Elements are in the same class as the MS...both of which are better turnover discs IMO...but I think the best discs for those longer turnovers are Buzzzs.

In my hands the Cobra is the best disc money can buy. I've used the overstable midranges (MRV/Roc/WASP) and while they fly fine, they all fade out hard at the end. The Cobra eases out sweetly.

The difference is that you can get away with arming the MRV and the Roc but not a Cobra. It takes a clean snap to get it to fly right. But boy when you do... :D.

BTW - you're only the second person I've heard who uses the Cobra extensively.


Thanks Lyle. That was the kind of comparison I wanted with the Cobra. I throw 3-4 weights of Champ Cobras from 150 to 180 for different situations. Best all around disc in my hands. I've got a couple of Coyote's that I haven't used yet. We shall see and report back.

Yup, love my Champ Cobras. The 150g is even my designated downhill Tommy disc, of which there are quite a few in these hills. Also use the 150g as a long putter in the woods, out of the wind. But the 172g and 179g are my bread and butter backhand midranges. Just out of curiosity, Lyle, have you used the fully leaded version of the Z-Storm? Not the 150g version but the old DGLO opaque 172-174g version. It's a great compliment to the Cobra, faster, a touch more stable and a great touch/approach disc. I could probably improve my game three or four strokes per round by just removing all my drivers and leaving the Cobras and Storm.

But there's just something about new plastic that keeps calling me............ "Jamie, there are new Coyote's on the front seat..... Jamie, pay attentiion........ new Coyote's........ :)

One thing I did like about the disc was upshots. I use a rigid grip upshot for approaches up to 230 feet where I don't reach back and put full snap on the disc. This is my high accuracy approach shot. On these kinds of shots the Coyote seems to come out straight and stay straight with no fade. This is very useful when you are making a long run at the basket and you want to stay close.

Those were my thoughts about the Coyote after throwing one last night under the flood lights. Very straight all the way through its flight at slow speeds. I did not throw it very far because I did not want to throw it into the dark.

No, Elements are in the same class as the MS...both of which are better turnover discs IMO...but I think the best discs for those longer turnovers are Buzzzs.




Okay. They have been around for 3 weeks and you throw nothing but Gateway. Im interested to hear how these are worse than a Buzzz or a QMS. I took both out of my bag after throwing the Coyote for one round. Heres my feelings about these: All in Champion/ Z / Quantum plastic.

QMS: The best mid out for strait shots on a strait line. There is little to no fade at all. The drawbacks to QMS' are distance. They also dont handle oversnap, meaning a bad shot will be just that, and it will turnover fairly easy.

Buzzz: Good for distance, but if it isnt perfect expect alot of glide to take you away from the basket.Throw it high? Wave bye-bye. I guess these are supposed to be " super strait", but obviously noone from Discraft ever threw a QMS. I had a Buzz, mainly for the extra distance I wasnt getting off the Q, but got tired of air- bouncing and skipping way past the target.

Element: { Just for you to have something to share, Chris} I thought the Proto was terrible, thought the Element-X was alot like a QMS, but never threw either enough for any critisism or praise.

Coyote: Long, strait drives with little falloff. Can handle more torque than the QMS, goes farther, but on less of a direct line. Mines also not beat in either and in a few weeks should have a little less stability, although, I had no problem hitting Anhyser lines from 320-350ft. already. I have flipped this disc over, but it did come back. I have also learned to snap it hard for left -to- right shots. Thrown on slight hyser it will hold a perfect hyser line. { Line looks the same a a hyser putt } On Ahny { High Line} it will hold for as long as you want, and when it does come back, the fall off is very little. Throw it slightly nose up on huge hyser lines for Buzzz like distance. This is just a fun disc that you can throw almost dead strait to the basket. IMO, its like throwing a big Wizard. I use the Wizard as an example, since I think they are the best Putter off the Tee, although I use KC Aviars. Wizards will hold high ahnys brand new, and IMO, is the only putter that will drop back with hardly no falloff after such an extreme anhyser line, as does the Coyote.

For me, this is the best mid out, and once I gave it a few rounds with little disapointment, it made the starting line-up. Lets hear your thoughts Chris. I am interested.

I love the Storm, one problem, no heavy weights in Z plastic. I hate the softer plastics (I'm uptight about notches warping etc.). I started out with the Storm and when I couldn't get it in heavy weights in Z I started looking for a replacement and went to the Cobra. Here's the real bummer. Apparently at one time they had a production run of the Storm in heavy weights in Z. Terry C. has three of them. Unfortunatly they aren't readily available. I'm also too cheap to go looking for them on e-bay. Soooo Discraft, make me happy and produce the Storm in heavy weight Z!


Yup, love my Champ Cobras. The 150g is even my designated downhill Tommy disc, of which there are quite a few in these hills. Also use the 150g as a long putter in the woods, out of the wind. But the 172g and 179g are my bread and butter backhand midranges. Just out of curiosity, Lyle, have you used the fully leaded version of the Z-Storm? Not the 150g version but the old DGLO opaque 172-174g version. It's a great compliment to the Cobra, faster, a touch more stable and a great touch/approach disc. I could probably improve my game three or four strokes per round by just removing all my drivers and leaving the Cobras and Storm.

But there's just something about new plastic that keeps calling me............ "Jamie, there are new Coyote's on the front seat..... Jamie, pay attentiion........ new Coyote's........ :)

I love the Storm, one problem, no heavy weights in Z plastic. I hate the softer plastics (I'm uptight about notches warping etc.). I started out with the Storm and when I couldn't get it in heavy weights in Z I started looking for a replacement and went to the Cobra. Here's the real bummer. Apparently at one time they had a production run of the Storm in heavy weights in Z. Terry C. has three of them. Unfortunatly they aren't readily available. I'm also too cheap to go looking for them on e-bay. Soooo Discraft, make me happy and produce the Storm in heavy weight Z!



They already do :D

Mills, how do the new heavy Z-Storms compare with the old limited production DGLO versions of the Z-Storm? (and an aside thank you to G'boro's Elliott Wentz for the several of these DGLO Z's that are in my closet and bag :D)

Mills, how do the new heavy Z-Storms compare with the old limited production DGLO versions of the Z-Storm?



They plastic is a little bit different but I hear that they fly the same. I say hear because I have not thrown either one. I wasnt even playing when the 1st DGLO ones came out and I dont throw Storms so I have yet to try the new Z ones but one of my buddies LOVES his.

Are they generally available? Or is this just starting and we will have to wait a while before they show up?

The DGLO ones are the ones that Terry had.

A Storm is more of a distance disc , than the Coyote.

A Storm can get away from you , if you have a decent snap.

A Coyote is like a faster beat Aviar , if that helps. It can handle a little more torque though.

A Storm is closer to the Champion Cobra. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Lyle, thye have been out for at least a month. One of my friends got one a month ago. He doesn't throw it much.

Thanks quickdisk and it doesn't matter!

Rothstein has 'em at http://www.discgolfworld.com/

I went out and threw mine again (The one I got in Des Moines) just to see and compare, and you're right, its not all that bad...its somewhere in the middle of a Buzzz and an Element as far as speed and stability go...conclusion...pretty smooth flyer...needs a cooler name though! :D

Had a few minutes to do some field throwing on the way home doing direct comparison of 170-174g Yote's, Cobra's and Storms. Gotta tell ya, for me the Yote is for real . I had heard some of the guys here describe the disc as slow but I don't see that at all. About the same speed as Cobra, slower than Storm but more glide than either of these other two. With appropriately smooth release it really resists turnover better than I thought it might and tails at slow speeds less than the Cobra or Storm. Release it with a little hyzer and it flies with a little hyzer. Release high with anhyzer and it does a beautiful smooth anhyzer float that neither dies nor tails out drastically. It has earned a run through the bag and in all probability a permanent place there. Good one, Dave!!!

A Storm is more of a distance disc , than the Coyote.

A Storm can get away from you , if you have a decent snap.

A Coyote is like a faster beat Aviar , if that helps. It can handle a little more torque though.

A Storm is closer to the Champion Cobra. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



This info helps me a lot, thanks. Where would you place the QMS in the above scenario? In between the Champ Cobra and Z Storm, or in between the Z Storm and Coyote ... or ... ?

With apropriately smooth release it really resists turnover better than I thought it might and tails at slow speeds less than the Cobra or Storm. Release it with a little hyzer and it flies with a little hyzer. Release high with anhyzer and it does a beautiful smooth anhyzer float that neither dies nor tails out drastically. It has earned a run through the bag and in all probability a permanent place there. Good one, Dave!!!


Got mine last night so I can finally throw my own instead of everyone elses. The above is just about what I fealt after 2 rounds. I threw it ever so slightly hyzer and tried to muscle it a bit thinking that I would get it to turn over and to my suprise it went dead straight overshooting the hole. On other shots, when I got the nose up I was rewarded with a nice easy hyzer line. Nose down gave me a nice anny depending on how hard thrown. Flat release stayed straight. Nice glide. Double throwing each shot during practice it even went as far as a few of my throws with a driver, hmmm. This appears to be one of those discs you can make do anything, but the down side to such a "balancing act" disc is throw it wrong and you get a bad shot. Not as forgiving as say a Roc or something but a good compliment to the Roc for the shots that need that type of disc. I need more time with it but it definately deserves a run at a bag placement for me.

I went out and threw mine again (The one I got in Des Moines) just to see and compare, and you're right, its not all that bad...its somewhere in the middle of a Buzzz and an Element as far as speed and stability go...conclusion...pretty smooth flyer...needs a cooler name though! :D





Id agree with that. I call mine "215$".

The other night a friend and i wen't and played a ball golf coarse right next to my house using discs..I figured i'd try my new coyote while he decided to use a crush. We played from middle tees, to the pins. On most of the long holes i out drove him...On 1 of their par 3 (187yrds) put it 20 out..Was very impressed with coyote and it might just replace my rocs...

You can throw a Coyote 500 feet? And I thought the Buzzz's flew far for a midrange.

Just ordered some glo mini star stamped Coyote's. Told there were 1000 made and sold at the Worlds. Discgolfvalues.com had some.

Could be wrong, Flyn, but I think Mark may be out of those already. Bought a couple myself yesterday or the day before and when I checked the site a few minutes ago I got the "product no longer exists" page. Glad I didn't follow my usual pattern of snoozing and losing. Only wish I got a couple for the shelf.

Must be out because I placed my order yesterday for a dozen. He has a few on eBay, he's mrfourputt

Must be out because I placed my order yesterday for a dozen. He has a few on eBay, he's mrfourputt


A dozen?? :eek: where do you find space for all discs?

Im suprised this thread isnt blowing up with talk of the new Glo Coyote. I guess Ill start:

Get your hands on one as fast as you can.


That being said, these Glo Coyotes are SICK. They are slightly more overstable and I now have no need for any other midrange. Perhaps I was fortunate, as I bought a keeper for the stash and a X-out to throw. The X-out is a "Poppy Top",{ Yes- It really does "pop" when pressure is applied } and the only one Ive seen so far that is this domey, and Im in love. It actually flies more like a beat -in Shark than a beat- in Roc. The Coyote is going down as one of the best mids EVER. I just laugh at people daily that throw Innova but dont have one. I hand it to everyone I come in contact with and encourage them to throw it, once. Thats all it will take.

Are you paid for these comments? :o:D

(JK, its just funny how enthusuastic you are!)

I got one pink glow 180g Coyote. Anyone else get a pink glo?

OOOOOOOO another pink disc!!!! I want it!!!

I really like the feel of the Champ Coyote AND the Champ Cobra, I may have to get one of each and see which one Iike best but it sounds like the Coyote is the one....

Are you paid for these comments? :o:D

(JK, its just funny how enthusuastic you are!)



I should be. But I think if any of the paid reps from Innovas company endorsed it the way I did they would be hard to keep in stock. All the people think "Oh, I already got beat up Rocs anyway." Well, they are just stupid. IMO.

I think its the best mid-range I ever threw. I cant give a much bigger endorsement than that. It has also got me more cash than any other disc I owned. :D

The Coyote is one heck of a midrange disc. The thing will do anything you want it to do. I replaced my rocs with two Coyotes, one to keep new and one to beat up.

WOW!!! Im surprised by the amount of people replacing ALL the Rocs in thier bag with the Coyote. Ive been throwing Rocs FOREVER and I have a hard time seeing myself replacing ALL my Rocs....although I DO like the feel of the Coyote, Ive yet to throw one.

WOW!!! Im surprised by the amount of people replacing ALL the Rocs in thier bag with the Coyote. Ive been throwing Rocs FOREVER and I have a hard time seeing myself replacing ALL my Rocs....although I DO like the feel of the Coyote, Ive yet to throw one.


The desicion to replace my Rocs was pretty easy to make. The main reason I switched to the Coyote is because of the grip. I broke my thumb about 8 years in a motorcycle accident, and just started playing again this year. My main disc back then was a roc, but they feel like they used to when I throw them. I tend to release them a little early when throwing them these days. The Coyote felt great the moment I picked one up. As far as stability goes, it pretty much does what I want, a slight right turn at high speed, and goes about 375-400 feet for me. When thrown with hyzer at slower speeds it holds it's line really well. Now, for a more stable mid range, I am throwing a champion shark. These 2 discs compliment each other really well. Anyone need some 11X KC Pro Rocs !

I'll take one!

DTW has glow Coyote's listed.

how do these coyotes compare to the spider?

A little more understable than a Spider, with better glide, IMO.

Thats based on Pro Line Spiders or older Champion Spiders.

I am way too lazy to look through all these posts...Is the Coyote similar to the glide? After reading the last post, I instantly thought of the glide. If the Coyote is similar, I will probably end up a few dollars lighter in my pocket to go out and get one.

I am way too lazy to look through all these posts...Is the Coyote similar to the glide? After reading the last post, I instantly thought of the glide. If the Coyote is similar, I will probably end up a few dollars lighter in my pocket to go out and get one.




Personally, I think its a more overstable disc than that, but have played with a few people who also used that comparison. The biggest problem Ive seen with the Coyote is it is to straight for a "new" disc. Lots of people put more into this disc than they have to, and cause it to turn-over, therefore its "Flippy" in thier eyes. It takes a few rounds to master.

More and more I am intrigued by this disc...if only I didn't have to pay tuition today. Darn bills! :mad:

I have a new 174g. up for trade. The lightest I threw has been 176g., and I noticed no difference from my max weight one. Let me know if your interested.

Chase or anyone else that has thrown both the Glide and the Coyote, is the Coyote slower? I was looking at the rim on the Coyote this weekend and it seemed more blunted than the Glide.

i have thrown all 3 the coyote, glide, and element. Element is the fastest, furthest, and most comfortable in my hand, glide is a little better than the coyote which i dont like very much at all.

Element is the furthest, no doubt ... and if I need that shot, I'll use an Element, Roc or Buzz. However, the Coyote is great for rollers, long putts, and special shots that the Element, Roc or Buzzz are not so great for. What I like about the Coyote is it's versitilty. Well worth having those tricks in the bag, and with one disc.
Don't get me wrong, I like the Element too, but the question was how does the Coyote compare to the Glide. I like the Coyote better, because it works great for shots that a Glide could be used on, and much MORE.
I made a sick long par save the other day rolling the Coyote, I don't know of any other disc in my bag that would have done the trick as easily, or at all for that matter. And I like having a 180 Coyote for windy putting situations. I have made some great birdie shots with it. I use a Wizard putter, but the Coyote is a darn good putter too.
I have thrown a couple of Glides, and they didn't really "click" for me, like the Coyote did. If in doubt ... try it out.

I disagree in terms of distance to the Coyote vs. Element. I throw a Coyote on alot of holes well over 300ft., and do it without much regard to the wind. The only Element I threw was the regular version, not the X and it wasnt able to hit the same distances consistently as the Coyote, and it was flippy in the wind. A beat in version of the Element X, however would be a different story. Neither could a Champion Roc.The Buzzz was probably able to mach the distance consistently, but I needed height for it, which is why I gave up the Buzzz after one round with this. I think the Glo Coyotes are better for Buzzz throwers than the normal Champion versions, as I feel its a little beefier.
With both the Buzzz and the Coyote when the disc is supposed to start slowing down and desending it hits another gear and glides even farther. I can make the Coyote do it at almost any height, whereas the Buzzz only seemed to get it on higher lines only.
I cant compare the speed vs. the Glide. I only threw the Glide a few times. The Coyote is slow I guess, like a QMS or Roc, but I get it where it needs to go as fast as any other traditional midrange. I dont think speed is a real important factor under 350ft. IMO.

I've probably said this earlier in this thread but it's worth restating: the coyote is the best disc to hit the market in the past 10 yrs or so.

It is possibly the most versatile disc ever produced.

It putts almost as well as my wizards. In my opinion it is the straightest out of the box disc ever produced and has nice glide.
Speaking of glide....The coyote is straighter than the glide (the Glide turns over more and helixes at the end more) but is comparable in speed and distance to the glide with the coyote possibly being slightly longer.

IMO, the Coyote is as straight as a midrange gets. I throw a max weight, brand new one, unbeaten. It takes some effort to get it to anhyzer for me on holes over 300', and i think i have a lot of snap. A well beat flat-top Roc is much easier to throw a predictable anny with on the same line thrown with a Coyote. I would definately recommend a Coyote for the bag.

I just got one today and I THINK I like it...

The main thing Iike about it is it doesnt fall off hard at the end like a Roc does. I mean, Ive been throwing Rocs for about 9 years or so and I KNOW a beat in Roc will not fall off hard left, but you gotta get it to that point, where as the Coyote is like that BRAND NEW.

I need a few more rounds with it but I will say I didnt throw a Roc AT ALL during todays round and I shot about 5-7 strokes better. But I was putting well too so hard to say if it was THIS disc...

COYOTE! COYOTE!

I have a 178g and I love it. The only thing I don't use it for are those hyzer shots that my roc/wasp handles better.

Anyway, I have a 178 CFR Coyote coming to me soon, should I expect the CFR to be slightly more overstable compared to the champ?

COYOTE! COYOTE!

I have a 178g and I love it. The only thing I don't use it for are those hyzer shots that my roc/wasp handles better.

Anyway, I have a 178 CFR Coyote coming to me soon, should I expect the CFR to be slightly more overstable compared to the champ?




Yes, if its like mine it is more overstable. Not alot but the difference is noticable. I use my Glo for hysers.

ok good...so it will take more power to completely turn it over compared to my champ.

Right now my champ is used for those flip flat, fly straight, and start turning over types of shots.

ok good...so it will take more power to completely turn it over compared to my champ.

Right now my champ is used for those flip flat, fly straight, and start turning over types of shots.



Yep.

I throw my Champion on any line. I dont even carry another mid-range. I like throwing hysers with the Champion as well, as you dont have to compensate nearly as much. The only problem I have with them is the rise after the release.

I am having problems with rise after release too. If I could keep this disc flat and level I think Id love it but it always seems to go high, I really dont think its my technique....

Get a 1st Run or Flat top Z-buzzz :)
They are great for those Straight as an arrow, 7 feet off the ground, 370 foot shots.

Anyway, I've heard great things about the coyote and hope that someone i know has one so i can try it out. IF only I could afford the GAS for the 50MILE round trip to get to my local course :(

-Scott Lewis

the newer buzz's work just as well.

I am having problems with rise after release too. If I could keep this disc flat and level I think Id love it but it always seems to go high, I really dont think its my technique....




I doubt it is. It just has a rise to it. I had the same problems with the Buzzz, along with the high air bounce. The only discs Ive not had this problem with are the old QMS' and Rocs.
As for the Buzzz, which is a great disc, the rise was there as well, just not on every throw. It matters only when your throwing through a tunnel. There arent enough tunnels for me to throw the Buzzz instead. Besides these are way straiter for me than a Buzzz. I wont knock the Buzzz though, I just noticed it had alot of carry on high hyser lines. Sometimes too much. To each his own.

Yeah, I think Ill stick to my Rocs....

This is a great disc, but I would not consider it a good high speed driver. I found it to be to understable when thrown at high speed, but it works great for a medium speed throw. Aim just right of your target line and release it flat, and with proper speed, it will hyzer in at the end for a park job!

This is a very straight flying disc, it didn't do very well for me on hard hyzer shots, or a fading anhyzer.