The rim having an average height of 76-89 cm above the ground. It was designed for playing catch. Waist Height for an average person. A Catching Device.

Precisely.

And which is easier to catch, a floater, or burner...?

So why punish a superior shot with a lid on the basket?!?

Goes back to the old addage. Is landing on the top good ?

Unless you play on a DR. Fred's basket , where the top is open to putt through , most baskets are designed to be putted at the chains and land it the lower basket part.
Freak shots land on or go through the Top chain rack and or Wedge through the lower basket part.
A catching device , not a landing or deflecting device.

Freak shots land on or go through the Top chain rack...


If you can only picture a "bullet putt", then what you say is true. It is entirely possible to lob an "elevator putt" high that drops almost straight down in such a manner that it would land perfectly in the basket, only to have the top assembly get in the way and have the disc to land on top.

It's also possible to throw a putt like that that would hit the pole exactly on the tape, and have it likewise stay on top.

What is it we aim for when we putt, anyway?

Hmmmmmmmm................then narrow the Top Chain Rack Assembly ? Have to design one on Auto Cad. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Freak shots land on or go through the Top chain rack...


If you can only picture a "bullet putt", then what you say is true. It is entirely possible to lob an "elevator putt" high that drops almost straight down in such a manner that it would land perfectly in the basket, only to have the top assembly get in the way and have the disc to land on top.

It's also possible to throw a putt like that that would hit the pole exactly on the tape, and have it likewise stay on top.

What is it we aim for when we putt, anyway?



True , playing Morley all these years and tying to play through 100's of golfers , I have learned to play quickly and accurately. So , yes , I'm a Line Drive Putter.

As I have gotten older though , I have to adjust to the physical side of playing. 3 rounds a day is Max as my body starts to hurt all over. I have added 3-10 seconds longer on my putting.
This is so my body can adjust to that moment in time.

Lob putts work. Turbo Putts work. ( See that guys Video thread). Upside down Putts work. Sidearm Putts work.

"It's how much time your willing to give yourself to make the correct putt for that exact situation." :eek:

Is that a confusious saying ?

The dimensions that matter are those of the target area of the catching device.



That is your opinion, and the PDGA has another opinion; according to quick disc on the previous page there are specific regualtions guiding the height of a basket. Many courses out there have some baskets that do not conform with these standards.

My point is an expansion on the concept that standardized targets will give all competitors a fair and equal chance. It has nothing to do with having a basket on a hill.



Where is Sandalguys cry of bourgeoisie elitism here!?! LOL!!! :D;)

Hey Nick ..........

"It's how much time your willing to give yourself to make the correct putt for that exact situation."

This is for Rhett !!!!!

I'm surprised no one has commented yet that by PDGA standards the chain assembly is completely optional...or have they? Aside from quoting the regulation.

I'm surprised no one has commented yet that by PDGA standards the chain assembly is completely optional...or have they? Aside from quoting the regulation.



Yeah, I did:


No chains required.

Well then. Ok.

I think it would be interesting to have a course around with deflectorless baskets...it would certainly present an additional challenge. I believe I shall think about that the next time I get irritated with a Discatcher, and remember not to take chain assemblies for granted.

The one time I played Conicido park in Phoenix, one of the baskets was missing the whole chain assembly and chains. It was just the basket and the pole. (Thieves were able to disconnect the top and take it.)

It was actually pretty cool to play that basket. I made my putt both times we played that basket, and my son blew by once. I have a wimpy lofty kind of pitch putt and my son has a much flatter putt, so my shots were basically getting above the basket and then falling straight down into it. He nailed the bare pole once and dropped in the basket (!) and drew air and flew by once.

Anyway, It was pretty cool. It took a much different and softer putt, but it was totally fair. No outside chains maybe grabbing your disc, maybe not.

The one time I played Conicido park in Phoenix, one of the baskets was missing the whole chain assembly and chains. It was just the basket and the pole. (Thieves were able to disconnect the top and take it.)

It was actually pretty cool to play that basket. I made my putt both times we played that basket, and my son blew by once. I have a wimpy lofty kind of pitch putt and my son has a much flatter putt, so my shots were basically getting above the basket and then falling straight down into it. He nailed the bare pole once and dropped in the basket (!) and drew air and flew by once.

Anyway, It was pretty cool. It took a much different and softer putt, but it was totally fair. No outside chains maybe grabbing your disc, maybe not.



I've often wanted to run an event with just the lower catching device as the target. The challenge is that the central pole is usually one piece. Portable Mach 3s would work though.

The course where I would try this has big elevation changes and is almost always windy; making putting a much more difficult task by a factor of 3 or 4 at least! Rather than putts just being a "dart" shot, we'd actually have to fly the disc in using arcing trajectories, getting the right direction AND VELOCITY would be critical.

The more I think about this the better it sounds...

Before I even knew that there were actual disc golf courses, we would set up a course in my 5 acre back yard using round laundry baskets. Some would be elevated, some would be left on the ground. When I played on a real 'pole hole' for the first time, it was a major adjustment. A year later, I'm still trying to figure it out! When I putt, I really don't even see the chains, just the basket. When I'm putting well, my disc barely even touches the chains before it comes to rest in the basket.

I'm with you Jordon. Being raised on Brandywine golf back in the wind days when it had unconverted Mach Ones I developed a putt designed to go for the basket opening, not the chains. More times than not the chains were less than helpful anyway!

No deflection devices would certainly make putting more challenging. I suspect the techniques to deal with this new challenge would be very cool. Some folks wouldn't have to change hardly at all (Climo, Barry, etc.), others would have to completely learn how to putt again (Chris Heeran, Tyler Horn, Craig Gangloff).

The only problem I would anticipate would be for non-putts (i.e. aces, fairway aces, long putts over 50 or so feet). Those are situations where the chains most certainly help. It's one thing to accurately gauge direction, angle, and velocity from 30 feet, but not from 300 feet! Although I do have 2 aces from about 200 ft. that the plastic laundry basket held.

You want a tough basket, try the 5 gallon plastic paint buckets. A friend has a course on 10 acres nearby, and he has 5 gallon buckets as the targets. Anything outside of 3' is very good.

Now we're talkin'! Oooh-wee! 5 gallon bucket! I've got one in my basement next to the Mach III, I'm going to test that out. I'm guessing any put not in reach will be a tester...

Sounds like one of those carnival games. "Step right up, 3 discs for a dollar!"

Sounds like one of those carnival games. "Step right up, 3 discs for a dollar!"



Which would be a natural fit for our Carney Classification of competition...LOL! :D

You want a tough basket, try the 5 gallon plastic paint buckets. A friend has a course on 10 acres nearby, and he has 5 gallon buckets as the targets. Anything outside of 3' is very good.



Interesting...........................

Have you ever had the chance to play , on what's called : Ground Baskets ?

It's a 3/4 inch re-bar , driven into the ground , standing up about 2 1/2 feet.

It has chicken wire , in a 3 foot circle , around the post.

Your putt , has to go over the top of the chicken wire , hit the post and drop to the ground. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Last time I played a course , in the southeast , had this set up for 18 holes.

Where in the Southeast?

Well, I've changed my position on DROT. Where before I suggested it be a stroke penalty, in the grand tradition of internet overreactions, I now favor automatic DQ.

But seriously, I once thought I had a basket redesign solution that eliminated the DROTs and made putting more challenging through eliminating the outer chain assembly and making the center array more dense. After a few experiments, the true density was found in my idea.

I personally have 12 baskets , each of different configurations.

None allow DROTS. Drots , really do not count , except on Dr. Fred's basket design.

The INTENTION of a Basket is to CATCH a flying disc , above the rim of the basket and BELOW the top chain rack assembly............PERIOD.

Every other shot.........ie : through the side of the basket ; through the top , chain rack assembly , ARE all made up !!!!!

They should not really count. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I don't remember where but in one of those historical peices that floats around there is a rational for why the chains were added. Essentially they (you know, them... actually I believe it was Ed) wanted to eliminate the float putt. They wanted the option of being able to drive into the basket hard to make the game more exciting and to increase the options for putting out. Of course that leaves you with the possibility of a drot. There is a solution, retrofit all baskets with a de-drot device. Then the issue goes away.

Hey Stack,

You've got my vote for best by-line. What do you figure your percentage is?

Cool........back to Standardized Basket Height.

My baskets , do not allow drots.

Standardized Basket Height. 27" from ground to bottom of basket.

I'm not sure measuring from the ground to the bottom of the basket would be a good "standard", since basket depth differs from manufacturer to manufacturer.

Wouldn't it be better to establish the standard measurement from the ground to the top lip of the basket?

I'm not sure measuring from the ground to the bottom of the basket would be a good "standard", since basket depth differs from manufacturer to manufacturer.

Wouldn't it be better to establish the standard measurement from the ground to the top lip of the basket?



Thanks.........You are correct. 32".
That of course depends on the depth of the basket.
Some are shallow , others are Deep.
32" though , measured to top of the rim. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I have all manufactures schematics . /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Original DGA , Innova , Tri-state , Ching, Discraft ( DGA ), Buffalo Baskets, Lightning , Triple Chain , Future Sports Network, Custom Fabrication Products , Dr. Fred's.....etc..........I'm sure I missed a few custom ones , but for REGULATION STANDARDS.................Specific dimensions are just that !!!!!

Has to be Universal Standard , world wide.

Other wise , we are still considered a Joke. :(

Height to the top of the basket rim isn't the standard that needs to be set. It's the height of the target zone which currently has no limits. You could make a chain support that's 5 feet high above the basket and pass the specs. The target area from rim to bottom of lid/chain support ranges from 15" to 21" on current baskets. That's really like our version of a hole which is standard in golf. Seems like this cylinder dimension should be specified.

The height from the ground of the bottom of this target cylinder should be allowed to vary within reason (24-72 inches?) to provide more putting challenge. We have baskets on all kind of terrain and players are already shooting up and down at the target cylinder based on current placements. Courses without elevation should be allowed to vary the height so they can make the courses at least have some elements of courses on more elevated terrain.

That's Fine , but even on a slope or raise surface , the base of the pole , on the surface, to the rim height , should be standardized.

I play on baskets that are crooked , broken , vandalized.......etc. in tournament play. Pretty embarrasing pictures. :D

If a tounament is to be played , shouldn't all the baskets be legitimate ? Not Half Asssed........... :(

Hey Stack,

You've got my vote for best by-line. What do you figure your percentage is?



Thanks! I'm hoping that 100% of people get fooled by it since I had to look it up myself to be sure it wasn't in there. Or is it?!

I personally have 12 baskets , each of different configurations.

None allow DROTS. Drots , really do not count , except on Dr. Fred's basket design.

The INTENTION of a Basket is to CATCH a flying disc , above the rim of the basket and BELOW the top chain rack assembly............PERIOD.

Every other shot.........ie : through the side of the basket ; through the top , chain rack assembly , ARE all made up !!!!!

They should not really count. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



...The entire deflection device is optional by our current standards. Therefore, whereas the chain assembly or comparable structure is a bonus that allows putting styles with irresponsibly little loft to them to stay in, the chain support structure is apparently a vertical obstacle of varying penetrability.

I personally have 12 baskets , each of different configurations.

None allow DROTS. Drots , really do not count , except on Dr. Fred's basket design.

The INTENTION of a Basket is to CATCH a flying disc , above the rim of the basket and BELOW the top chain rack assembly............PERIOD.

Every other shot.........ie : through the side of the basket ; through the top , chain rack assembly , ARE all made up !!!!!

They should not really count. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



...The entire deflection device is optional by our current standards. Therefore, whereas the chain assembly or comparable structure is a bonus that allows putting styles with irresponsibly little loft to them to stay in, the chain support structure is apparently a vertical obstacle of varying penetrability.



I like this part " the chain support structure is apparently a vertical obstacle of varying penetrability."

It's in the Hole........Bi'atch !!!!!! :D

...The entire deflection device is optional by our current standards. Therefore, whereas the chain assembly or comparable structure is a bonus that allows putting styles with irresponsibly little loft to them to stay in, the chain support structure is apparently a vertical obstacle of varying penetrability.



I dislike the current deflection device's inability to allow a lofty putt in. I'm much more accurate with a large loft putt, but it's difficult to get a high loft putt to drop in due to how harshly a steep attacking putt is treated by the chain supports. I can sit and lob putts from 20 feet into a 50 gallon drum all day long. A normal putt at 20 feet though, I'm like 60-70% accuracy.

And my best/worst:

best: casual relief from OB obstacles. (I'm pretty good at dodging a bullet and landing RIGHT next to OB obstacles)
worst: water hazards (I'm also pretty good at washing discs)

I have had problems with my loft putt too. Those yellow banded bums seem to hate my lofty goodness. I have started to modify my putting because I am getting tired of that darn clang.

Best rule: Relief from OB is a great one. I too find myself often close to the OB. The rule makes sense also. Without relief it may be impossible to take a legal stance. PDGA got it right on this one.

Worst rule: Dress code/2 meter rule. My reasons are not what you think either. Both of these rules seem to be often misunderstood. The confusion seems to be divisive also. People are getting very upset about rules that may not even apply to them or even come up in most rounds. People seem very upset about these two rules.

I have had problems with my loft putt too. Those yellow banded bums seem to hate my lofty goodness. I have started to modify my putting because I am getting tired of that darn clang.



If you hit the clang band on a DISCatcher you would have been above the chain support on a non-banded type target. So you would have missed either way. Learn to put into the target area and you'll be fine.

I have had problems with my loft putt too. Those yellow banded bums seem to hate my lofty goodness. I have started to modify my putting because I am getting tired of that darn clang.



If you hit the clang band on a DISCatcher you would have been above the chain support on a non-banded type target. So you would have missed either way. Learn to put into the target area and you'll be fine.



Dang it...I knew that I was doing something wrong :p I wonder how many people would freak out about baskets with the pole and no chains or the chain hanging device...

Hey guys I got a question, if a player fails to putt out and plays the next hole and birdies the hole and just before this player throws again on the next hole a discgolfer brings his putter and says you forgot your putter what happens?

Hey guys I got a question, if a player fails to putt out and plays the next hole and birdies the hole and just before this player throws again on the next hole a discgolfer brings his putter and says you forgot your putter what happens?

Nine times out of ten, the player says, "Thank you," and putts the putter in his bag.

You don't get it he never putted out, if he would have it would of been a 3, thats what he said when scores where called out.What a dork we say thanks :mad:

The player in question receives a 2 stroke penalty for the hole he failed to hole out on (actual throws + 2) under 803.12.A.2 and everyone else on the card receives a courtesy warning for failing to "watch the other members of their group throw in order to aid in locating errant throws and to ensure compliance with the rules" (801.01.A).

If the argument comes up that 801.01.A says "should watch" instead of "must watch", 801.01.C covers that with "Refusal to perform an action expected by the rules".

so this person would receive a 5 or 4 ? I heard of 7's and DQ's for not finihing a hole.

Click the "Rules" link then select "HOLING OUT" from the drop down menu. Read.

Here, I'll save you 2 steps:


803.12 HOLING OUT
A. A player who fails to play any hole or fails to hole out on any hole during the round may be disqualified, at the discretion of the director, using the following guidelines:
(1) Holes missed due to late arrival may be scored and penalized according to section 804.02.
(2) Inadvertently failing to hole out (as determined by a majority of the group or an official) shall result in 2 penalty throws being added to the number of throws plus penalty throws already taken on the hole. The hole shall then be considered completed.
(3)Intentionally failing to hole out (emergency, injury, plane flight, etc.) constitutes withdrawal from competition. The player shall be withdrawn from competition and officially listed as "Did Not Finish" on the scorecard and in the event results.

B. Disc Entrapment Devices: In order to hole out, the thrower must release the disc and it must come to rest supported by the chains or within one of the entrapment sections. This includes a disc wedged into or hanging from the lower entrapment section but excludes a disc resting on top of, or hanging outside of, the upper entrapment section. The disc must also remain within the chains or entrapment sections until removed.

C. Object Targets: In order to hole out, the thrower must release the disc and it must strike the marked target area on the object as specified by the director.





Is there something unclear about this rule?

So what should he receive as a score on that hole?

803.12 HOLING OUT
A. A player who fails to play any hole or fails to hole out on any hole during the round may be disqualified, at the discretion of the director, using the following guidelines:
(1) Holes missed due to late arrival may be scored and penalized according to section 804.02.
(2) Inadvertently failing to hole out (as determined by a majority of the group or an official) shall result in 2 penalty throws being added to the number of throws plus penalty throws already taken on the hole. The hole shall then be considered completed.
(3)Intentionally failing to hole out (emergency, injury, plane flight, etc.) constitutes withdrawal from competition. The player shall be withdrawn from competition and officially listed as "Did Not Finish" on the scorecard and in the event results.


So all I have to do is forget to tee-off and forget to hole-out and then convince my card-mates that I really did just forget, and I can get a 2 on The Monster! :)

If you say he would have recevied a 3, I take it to mean that he had thrown 2 times on the hole and failed to make the third which would have been the putt.

He gets actual throws + 2 (It really is more like a 1 stroke penalty). The score should be a 4.

7s only happen at the beginning of the round when the player is late for the start. DQs are for players that intentionally fail to hole out (walk off the course in the middle of a hole).

You don't get it he never putted out, if he would have it would of been a 3, thats what he said when scores where called out.What a dork we say thanks :mad:

I got it. You did not get it. Based on the wording of the rule, if he inadvertantly failed to hole out for a three, he took two throws and adds two to that for a four.

That's right !!!!!

(2) Inadvertently failing to hole out (as determined by a majority of the group or an official) shall result in 2 penalty throws being added to the number of throws plus penalty throws already taken on the hole. The hole shall then be considered completed.

Sounds like atleast a 4 to me. :o

803.12 HOLING OUT
A. A player who fails to play any hole or fails to hole out on any hole during the round may be disqualified, at the discretion of the director, using the following guidelines:
(1) Holes missed due to late arrival may be scored and penalized according to section 804.02.
(2) Inadvertently failing to hole out (as determined by a majority of the group or an official) shall result in 2 penalty throws being added to the number of throws plus penalty throws already taken on the hole. The hole shall then be considered completed.
(3)Intentionally failing to hole out (emergency, injury, plane flight, etc.) constitutes withdrawal from competition. The player shall be withdrawn from competition and officially listed as "Did Not Finish" on the scorecard and in the event results.


So all I have to do is forget to tee-off and forget to hole-out and then convince my card-mates that I really did just forget, and I can get a 2 on The Monster! :)



Now that would not be "inadvertent" would it Rhett? That would be intentional and I as TD would have little difficulty in following the rules when someone intentionally does not continue play.