My game has been on a steady decline due to TDing being more out of shape etc. But I think a HIGH percentage of it is that my arm is actually hurt. Anyway, throwing side arm does not hurt the spot that is injured and I am thinking of making a full time switch. It may bring back a little more fun to the game for this hacker 892 rated TD.

Anyway, has anyone ever done this that has some advice for me? I am not just talking learning a side arm, I am talking 100% sidearm right away. I know the basics.

What disc should I use for a driver: Champion Firebird? Z Flick?

How about midrange: Q Sentinel for left to right. (I am right handed). How about straight?

How about a turnover driver???


Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I 'came back' yesterday from not playing in 8 days. I relied on my sidearm a disproportionate at of time...it just seemed intuitively 'kinder' on my body to do so. So I tried some sidearm turnovers. Since thats >>> a regular lefty backhand, it wasn't close to half the drives, 4COL, just as might be expected. :( James Brown should have said "It's a RIGHTY's Mans' world..." :DI'm in the 80% range, the ratio of side:back, distance-max-wise, not a big problem for par 54 courses. I've also thrown overhand [baseball] rollers 400+, so there's potential there, too.

Gimp, do you throw a turnover shot with a bit>>>more hyser? I think this is a something of a little 'scary' shot...it takes some confidence. Esp with a tailwind...and I would try something else into a headwind. Do you 'do' the overhand roller?

Summary of rant: I found my candy Archangel to be too 'stubborn' to accomplish a complete turnover glide. A beaten DX Beast was more 'cooperative'. ;)

For you, learn the Z-Flick. :)

For a turnover, you might want to start with something like a Teebird until you get comfortable with the angles required, so you can exaggerate the anhyzer angle without throwing rollers. Then move to an understable disc.

Midranges, Roc for straight and turnovers. Maybe a Buzzz?

Ok i'm not just saying this but a spirit would work well for a driver or even an Illusion and a blaze for a Mid. :D:DAt least that is what I use.

I throw primarily sidearm for anything outside 200ft. I recommend learing to tthrow a teebird first and foremost. It is a disc that can be thrown straight, hyzered, or annied and will end up where you want. I use orcs for distance, and am finding a lot of sucess with the CFR first run starfires. I have a 2nd run starfire and Champ Firebird for hyzers or windy days. As far as midranges go, I can't really help. I threw a roc for a while, then realized I was a lot more accurate with a backhand for those types of shots. Gators are supposed to be good; some people in Australia use those sidearm with some great results. A blaze from gateway can take a hell of a lot of snap and still fade, so that is another option.
Good luck on the transition.

Chris

gotta have spirit! listen to the boy for cry'n out loud

Ditto on the T'bird...

I practiced a lot of SAs (for the first time in my 8 year 'career') last Fall/Winter and was very surprised how malleable & forgiving both a Roc and a Rhyno are. Very true flights...simply add a Demon G5i and you'll be set for the midrangers.

I found a one-finger grip to be highly effective for shorter 'touch' shots...

John "Gimp" Edwards wrote: "Anyway, throwing side arm does not hurt the spot that is injured and I am thinking of making a full time switch. It may bring back a little more fun to the game for this hacker 892 rated TD.

Anyway, has anyone ever done this that has some advice for me? I am not just talking learning a side arm, I am talking 100% sidearm right away. I know the basics.

What disc should I use for a driver: Champion Firebird? Z Flick? How about midrange: Q Sentinel for left to right. (I am right handed). How about straight? How about a turnover driver???

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. "

Gimp,

Your "full time switch" approach gives you the best chance to learn the shots fastest. Just like the best way to learn a new language would be to move to a country where the new language is used and immerse yourself in it.

I learned the forehand when my right knee gave out and my choices were to learn the forehand or find a new sport. That was after playing the game for 3 1/2 years as a backhander. Now 8 years later, I throw backhand drives only on shots under 300 feet which are pure righty hyzers. My right knee can tolerate those shots for a few times in a round.

A surprizing benefit for me was added power. My best backhand drives were in the '320 range. My best forehand drives are about '100 farther. I was forehand dominate and did not even know it. It was a shock to blow past baskets I couldn't come close to reaching before. I went from underpowered in my division to better than average. Learning to control the power was a different matter as the margin of error on forehands is much smaller than backhands.

Learning how to drive into headwinds seemed impossible at first. Learning to maintain a good grip is much tougher for forehands, especially in bad weather, which also seemed impossible at first.

As with learning any new shot, the best way to learn is to find someone who can teach you the shot. It is very hard to figure out what you are doing wrong by yourself. Much of the challenge of a forehand is figuring out how to minimize flutter ( Flutter is when the disc does not come cleanly out of the hand and flutters rather than flying flat and smooth).

Throwing forehand, it is hard to see what the disc does right out of the hand. The thrower tends to pick it up 20-50 down the fairway, which by then will be flatening out if the disc is overstable enough. What the thrower can't see is the angle of release and the early flutter. With a poor forehand shot, the flawed angle of release and heavy flutter doom the shot within the first few feet. This problem is hugely magnified when throwing into tough head or side winds. Many players with marginal sidearms can get away with poor releases until the big winds come and destroy their drives.

Practice releasing flat and clean. It is not important what the flight of a particular disc is. Once you can release flat and clean just use the discs which respond to your throws. If you have a strong forehand snap then you, like me, will throw max weight with very overstable discs ( Firebirds, Monsters, Flicks). If those discs hyzer too strongly then dial down in stablility. The hardest discs to find are those which fly dead nuts straight ( I'm still looking for such a magical disc but beat up FX Firebirds do it best) or with a gentle, controlled anhyzer on all-out drive ( for me, the flat top run of CE Teebirds are best).

As you develop the shot you will build better snap and cleaner release, so the disc which flies best for a particular flight will change over time.

Play catch with putters, mid-ranges and drivers. It takes a while to develop the touch for each shot. If you spent 20 minutes a day playing catch on each shot (so, an hour per day total), within two weeks your forehand will have improved so much you won't even recognize it.

A common problem with forehanders is elbow pain. Most forehanders keep their throwing elbow tucked tight to their side, so the motion is all forearm and wrist snap. I know my elbow can't tolerate that form while others have no problem with it. If you experience elbow pain the solution is to throw with a straighter arm. This allows the for greater arm speed and better distance. Think of the form as a second baseman turning a double play with a sidearm throw or a sidearm karate chop.

Good luck,

Mark Ellis

WOW! Thank you for all the great suggestions!

Mark, what grip do you use? I have two fingers under the disc right now.

WOW! Thank you for all the great suggestions!

Mark, what grip do you use? I have two fingers under the disc right now.



Gimp,

It is amazing you can do that and type at the same time.

Grip is individual and preference specific. I use two fingers. The middle finger rests against the inside rim. By this I mean the pad of my middle finger is almost flat on the inside rim, not pressing up against the flight plate. You need to twist your hand inwardly to press the pad of your finger against the rim. It won't feel natural at first. Many throwers have their finger pads against the botttom of the flight plate and give up power and control. Pushing directly against the inside rim propels the disc forward efficiently.

My index finger rests right on top of the middle finger, providing strength but not grip. It does nothing but support the middle finger. This support translates into greater power because two fingers are stronger than one. Just as the stronger your hands are the more snap you can generate, so too does the strength of a second finger in a forehand grip give you more snap.

Here in Michigan, Mike Raley throws a great forehand and he splits his two fingers rather than the overlap grip I use. I know that some folks use a one finger grip because it is easier for them to get the finger pad flat against the rim. Since you are just starting and everything will seem foreign I would suggest you try the two finger grip so that when you develop the shots you will have the grip with the most power potential.

I have small hands which fit compactly under the disc. Scott Stokely, the best forehander in the world when healthy, has huge hands. He can pick up a basketball like I would a baseball. He uses a two finger overlap grip with the index finger on the rim and the middle finger on top of the index finger (the opposite of mine). His fingers stretch the entire diameter of the disc, like mine do when gripping a mini.

One common error I see with sidearm grips is to not wedge the disc deeply into your hand. These folks hold the disc with just the tips of their fingers, like daintily holding a tea cup. Instead push the disc firmly into the webbing between your thumb and index finger. This way you benefit from the full strength of your hand.

Imagine trying to pick up a heavy barbell with only your fingertips. Obviously you have a much stronger grip by wrapping your hands fully around the barbell.

The thumb of your throwing hand grips the top of the flight plate and points parallel to the fingers underneath the disc.

Describing grips and throwing techniques is very difficult to do with words but easy to demonstrate in person. If your travels take you to Michigan or if you see me on the Tour, I'd be happy to give a lesson.

Mark Ellis

After a lifetime of throwing almost exclusively side arm i would say these things.

Inherently you'll get less spin, so you'll need less stable plastic. Currenlty I love the Sidewinder. Crank it with a little hyzer, it goes 100, flips up, ani's for 100+ than starts coming back :D


You can get your arm way out there like Stokely, and maybe throw further, but not for a long career. You need to keep your elbow in.

I wear one of those ace elbow things. Not so much for when it hurts, but before it hurts. It helps remind me to keep the elbow in, and not hyper extend it. It also helps not open the elbow up and pull right on putts (backhand)

I also try to apply the same concept as the backhand "start the mower". if you have ever pull started a mower, you know how much easier it is if you pull the cable in a stright line.

I see a lot of people kind of waive the disc around in the set up and back swing, some start it in a postion no where near where they are going to release it, and it works for some. But I would say this. Hold the disc out at the angle and place where you think you will release it, slide it staright back from there, and straight back through it when you throw. Use your legs and your hips for power, keep your shoulders square, do not "curtsey". Your back foot must always finish ahead of your leading foot, you must, even on 80 foot approaches, step through the shot if you want to aim consistantly.

The other thing that I have been finding is if you shorten your whole swing, don'tpull yourarm way back in the back swing, one short quick explosion, you will tend to hit more fairways. If you watch some one throw a 2 finger badly, it's probably because when they started there swing the disc was in some weird position through the back swing.

Lasty, the sidearm is very hard to contorl low spped, I would recomend that you still putt and approach backhand within a confident range.


I hope this helps.

Lasty, the sidearm is very hard to contorl low spped, I would recomend that you still putt and approach backhand within a confident range.




I can't drive side arm, but my approaches hold a better line than when I approach back hand

I play 90% sidearm, Most drives are with pro and champion orks or beast. My friend plays 100% sidearm and drives with the XL and a Teebird-L pro.

Midrange I use rocs and MRV's

Lasty, the sidearm is very hard to contorl low speed, I would recomend that you still putt and approach backhand within a confident range.

I can't drive side arm, but my approaches hold a better line than when I approach back hand




Well, that comes back to the spin thing. You have to throw a side arm with more energy to create spin. Simply because of the way the human arm/wrist/hand is engineered, it's easier to rotate the disc backhanded.
(beacuse your hand wraps around the disc backhand)

If you appply this theorem with discs physics 101, that is spin = flight / thrust = motion you'll find that you should be able to putt with more spin, and less side to side motion backhanded, and therefor stay in line with the basket more often than not. If you throw by moving your arm at the elbow your going to go side to side a lot, and release early and late. If you throw from your center and use you wrist more, relaesing early will only have you missing high and low. 1 less dimension to worry about. :D

With all repsect, I would say you need to work more on your short back hand game. Use your wrist more, and your elbow as liitle as possible when you putt. I have a bad thumb on my throwing hand. I have only had about 50% use of it since I was 2, that's why I drive 2 finger. Butt I still feel that backhand is the more controlled flight 100 feet and in.

IMHO, You should be putting from your hips not your shoulder.

Wish I could actually do it

I have the opposite problem. I have thrown sidearm almost exclusively since I started playing about 15 years ago. If I play more than once a week, my elbow tendonitis flares up to the point where I can't throw sidearm at all without excrutiating pain. Unfortunately, my backhand has been so neglected over the years, that I wouldn't recognize a good release if it bit be on the ...um, leg.

I use CE Beasts on wide open shots. I use CE Valks for low ceilings (more glide). I use old X-Clones for long approaches and shorter drives. All of this assumes a hole that permits a left to right throw. On straight narrow holes or dog-leg lefts, I get inventive. I have never mastered a reliable right to left sidearm shot, or even a long straight one.

When I was young (26-27) or so I had elbow and shoulder pain throwing forehand. Since then I've concentrated on technique and disc selection. Now at 44 I throw farther than ever with better accuracy and zero arm pain.

i would just say throw everything identical to what you threw backhand.. you'll learn control very quickly that way.
if you threw a teebird for straight shots try the same for forehand.

-Scott Lewis

I would like to echo what Rich said and add to what he implied. Most throwing pain comes from improper technique and improper warm up. The two biggest problems with technique come from a poor grip which allows the disc to slip sending pain to the elbow (not unlike throwing a tenis ball with base ball technique). The second most common pain and injury producer is not following through. Following through not only helps to finish your shot, but also helps your arm to slow down more slowly; reducing stress.

A good/adequate follow-through in effect gives your body permission to throw harder... A sore pec muscle (the next day) is a good indicator of proper deceleration.