Forgive me if this has been addressed elsewhere, but I'm a little unclear on the definition of OB as being 'surrounded by water'. There is a particular local course (Idlewild, Burlington, KY) that has several medium sized creeks running through it. Some days they are much more full than others, and when they are low, there are a lot of exposed flat rocks, as well as 'islands' or sand bars in the middle of the streams. I've heard conflicting rulings on how to handle a disc that has landed on dry ground (or rock) in the middle of a stream. One ruling is that 'if an ant could not crawl onto said disc from the shore, then it is OB'. That is basicly saying that the disc can be surrounded by water without 'touching' water at all. Other interpretations claim 'surrounded' actually means touching water on all sides...still others have claimed that it is OB even if it is touching ANY water in a part of the stream that is 'usually' submerged. Any help would be good as we have a big tourney coming up, and it could get tricky.

Any help would be good as we have a big tourney coming up, and it could get tricky.



Mark the edges of the creek as being out of bounds. That way everything inside the OB markers is OB regardless of how much water there is in there. It's a lot less confusing that way.

as always, it's up to the TD's interpretation. Of course what most people rule, for simplicity and safety reasons both, is say that if the disc is not touching any part of shore, you are surrounded by water. whether your disc is on a rock island or not is irrelevant since you are in the middle of the stream.

honestly that ruling seems to be the best interpretation of the "intent" of the rule as well.

Water is, by definition of the PDGA Rules of Play, a casual obstacle. Yes, all water is casual unless the TD specifically calls it OB.

The intent of the TD when making different kinds of water OB is the intent of the TD. Some TDs like the "unless you are literally in the water you are safe" interpretation and some like the "normal bounds of the river is OB" interpretation.

"mark the edges of the stream as O/B".....could you please suggest some marking options? I'm not trying to be a wise-a$%....At our course, because the creek level fluctuates so dramatically from week-to-week depending on rainfall, we'd have to mark the O/b creek line for worse-case scenarios, which is NOT the norm. The O/B line would be way up the creek bed, which makes the hazard much larger than we'd really like it to be. regardless, we don't want to use permanent paint; string is a hassle; stakes every "X" feet end up being not precise enough. what options do we have if we want to make the line permanent and not allow it to fluctuate according to rainfall?.....

Stakes are easy to eyeball as long as there is good line-of-sight between each pair. Put down paint or string for big tourneys.

General definition would be if there is water between the bank and the disc on all sides, it is OB. If the disc is on/above land (rock/sand/dirt not stick/log) that is connected to the bank, it is safe.

Course definitions override general definitions.

Clear lines delineating OB is preferrable in all cases since water levels change, rocks move, sandbars shift.

"mark the edges of the stream as O/B".....could you please suggest some marking options? I'm not trying to be a wise-a$%....At our course, because the creek level fluctuates so dramatically from week-to-week depending on rainfall, we'd have to mark the O/b creek line for worse-case scenarios, which is NOT the norm. The O/B line would be way up the creek bed, which makes the hazard much larger than we'd really like it to be. regardless, we don't want to use permanent paint; string is a hassle; stakes every "X" feet end up being not precise enough. what options do we have if we want to make the line permanent and not allow it to fluctuate according to rainfall?.....



I'm the farthest thing from a rules expert, but to me it would make sense to just say that the outside boundaries of the water are the OB lines. Peninsulas would be in bounds and islands would be out of bounds. I think that's pretty much what gnduke said, though.

Today there was an occassion where a disc was in an ob creek mostly surrounded by water with one edge on mud that was 4 inches away from the rock bank. It was not surrounded by water and the mud was connected to the bank, however if one pushed ones finger in the mud water would come up. I gave it to the other player as being in bounds but wonder what others think. thanks.

IB. you made the correct call. mud is not water, so it wasnt surrounded by water. and we really dont want to start testing soil for water content percentages :D

"Waters edge" is a terrible OB line.

i just started staking and stringing the ob water hazards at the red hawk for the players cup. pound a stake in the ground every 20-30 ft. at the high water mark and run string off a big spool down the line, it's pretty easy.

Agreed. String and paint works at Emerald Isle, and there is a lot of OB to mark there.

Forgive me if this has been addressed elsewhere, but I'm a little unclear on the definition of OB as being 'surrounded by water'. There is a particular local course (Idlewild, Burlington, KY) that has several medium sized creeks running through it. Some days they are much more full than others, and when they are low, there are a lot of exposed flat rocks, as well as 'islands' or sand bars in the middle of the streams. I've heard conflicting rulings on how to handle a disc that has landed on dry ground (or rock) in the middle of a stream. One ruling is that 'if an ant could not crawl onto said disc from the shore, then it is OB'. That is basicly saying that the disc can be surrounded by water without 'touching' water at all. Other interpretations claim 'surrounded' actually means touching water on all sides...still others have claimed that it is OB even if it is touching ANY water in a part of the stream that is 'usually' submerged. Any help would be good as we have a big tourney coming up, and it could get tricky.



On holes 3 and 15 at idlewild the course design is that the Walls delineating the greens are the OB line for the green side of the creek and the side of the creek that is away from the green is the other side's OB line. The islands between the walls and the far side of the creek are also OB (and there are signs saying so). The walls themselves are also considered OB and so if you hit the wall and fall back you don't get to play from the green, but instead must play from within 1 meter of the teepad side of the creek. That is the way course designer Fred Salaz designed the course to play. I've noticed the PDGA rules say OB lines are themselves IB, so i guess the OB lines are where the green touches the wall and not the creek side of the wall... At tournaments such as the upcoming KY States at Idlewild the OB lines for 3 and 15 are usually painted instead of using wherever the creek meets land...

to view a picture of the Idlewild Hole 15 CFR Starfire: click here (http://www.innovadiscs.com/cfr/2005/kenstate.jpg)

for KY States at Idlewild tournament flyer: click here (http://www.cincinnatidiscgolf.com/forum/get-attachment.asp?attachmentid=75)

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OK, thanks that makes sense. Water content tester to go with the stick calipers :D

Also at Idlewild, holes 2, (the rest of) 3, 5, 11, & 16 your disc would be ob if water can be seen on all sides. If you land partially on a rock in the middle, you're ob. If water is flowing down both sides of the "sand bar" on 16, you're ob.