I have a question that may have been asked before, so forgive me if it has. Here is the scenario: A player drives and suffers significantly from the early release program and his disc goes deep into the woods. Knowing that he cannot get out of the woods he picks up another disc and re-tees. Here are the questions:

- If he claims it is an unsafe lie he would get one stroke for the throw and since it exceeded 5 meters back to the tee-box he would receive 2 more strokes. He sits at 3 strokes before ever throwing his next throw and after re-teeing he sits at 4 strokes.
- If he picks up another disc and throws it from the tee-pad and does NOT claim his first disc was anything then we stroke him for the first shot as a practice throw and he sits at 2 strokes.

Now before anyone says that the second throw was his practice throw and not the first by rule 803.00 B '�an extra throw with any disc any time after start.'. The next argument will be that he is clearly cheating since he managed to shave 2 strokes by using the first throw as a practice throw, the rule for cheating says:

804.05 A (3) Cheating: a willful attempt to circumvent the rules of play.

The problem with claiming he was cheating is that you have to KNOW he didn't intend his first throw to be a practice throw and you can't know that. Most of us would agree that practice throws are typically those taken after the two minute call or when someone is upset and picks up a disc and throws it. It's not like you caught him with an eraser after the round trying to pencil whip his score into shape or with a distance measuring device trying to gage the distance to a target. Now any rule abiding disc golfer would not throw a practice throw anyway, and I for one would be very perturbed if I saw someone do this. Consider this, isn't any practice throw cheating? According to the rules it is and a penalty is defined, so it does not fit into the dq section of cheating.

Another, but similar situation would be if a player is putting at a basket at the top of a hill and it takes a tournament roll into the nearby pond. Instead of taking the stroke for the throw and penalty for the OB and then having to throw back up the hill, the player would only receive 1 stroke for a practice throw.

As a TD I would dq someone for making a willful attempt to bypass the rules and avoiding the extra strokes. However with the definition of a practice throw being so lose, I can see someone arguing that it was only a practice throw.

Comments?

The first throw was his throw. The second throw was the practice throw. Read the definition of practice throw in the glossary.

I hope I've got this right.........First throw in the woods +1 , second throw from the tee, +2 now totaling +3 and the re-tee would be his 4th shot. I always had the understanding that I could take an unplayable lie for a 1 stroke penalty or I could take a 2 stroke penalty and take my second shot from any where in the fairway, no closer to the hole.

In my opinion, his first shot counted as a throw, then takes an additional 2 strokes for the re-tee and would be throwing his 4th shot from the tee.

Not to confuse things but I have a situation for you. This happened at the Duncan Lake Hillcliber....

Player tess and disc lands by the pond safe and in bounds. Second shot hits tree and is rolling into the pond, one problem, the player stops the disc from rolling ionto the pond. Now he takes an unsafe lie, remarks and throws his upshot under the basket, next putt in.. How would you have scored this one?

It's not really a practice throw if the player is throwing from a legal lie. 803.00B includes the phrase:"except for throws that must be re-thrown in accordance with the rules." A re-throw can be made when a player takes an unsafe lie penalty. So, if the player throws again from the tee, the player has played their next throw with an implied 'unsafe lie 2-throw penalty' being applied to the first throw plus a courtesy violation for throwing out of order if the other players call it.

The lesson would be to not think you're making a practice throw when you're in a legal stance that could be called your next throw.

So would the re-tee be his 4th shot?

Not to confuse things but I have a situation for you. This happened at the Duncan Lake Hillcliber....

Player tess and disc lands by the pond safe and in bounds. Second shot hits tree and is rolling into the pond, one problem, the player stops the disc from rolling ionto the pond. Now he takes an unsafe lie, remarks and throws his upshot under the basket, next putt in.. How would you have scored this one?

7 or 8 depending upon how much unsafe lie relief he took. 2 throw penalty for the intentional interference + 4 actual throws + 1 or 2 for the unsafe lie relief depending on whether he moved it less or more than 5 meters.

So he avoids the O.B. water stroke that was going to happend with out the interference?

I saw it kind of like this......
Drive: +1
Shot +1
Interference: +2
OB +1
Now thrtowing his 6th.
Relief: +1
Upshot: +1
Putt: +1

He avoids the o.b. water one throw penalty and gets the intentional interference two throw penalty

The OB penalty doesn't occur due to the 2-throw penalty for interference. On interference, the disc is marked at the point of contact even though the disc was likely to roll OB.

Your accounting is overlooking the unsafe lie penalty also

To everyone:

Ignore the question, once the definition of a practice throw is read the question becomes moot.

Thanks Chuck, I should have read a little further. It is funny how you read the rule book and yet still forget an item or two. Then again it could be old age creeping up on me.


It's not really a practice throw if the player is throwing from a legal lie. 803.00B includes the phrase:"except for throws that must be re-thrown in accordance with the rules." A re-throw can be made when a player takes an unsafe lie penalty. So, if the player throws again from the tee, the player has played their next throw with an implied 'unsafe lie 2-throw penalty' being applied to the first throw plus a courtesy violation for throwing out of order if the other players call it.

The lesson would be to not think you're making a practice throw when you're in a legal stance that could be called your next throw.

Thanks. It was clearly going OB, thats what caused the interference. So he would have taken an 8 and thats what he wrote down.

If it were me I probably would have stroked myself for the OB also. I would have been wrong, but when you're writing down an 8 or 9, it probably doesn't matter much. :D

It's not really a practice throw if the player is throwing from a legal lie. 803.00B includes the phrase:"except for throws that must be re-thrown in accordance with the rules." A re-throw can be made when a player takes an unsafe lie penalty. So, if the player throws again from the tee, the player has played their next throw with an implied 'unsafe lie 2-throw penalty' being applied to the first throw plus a courtesy violation for throwing out of order if the other players call it.

The lesson would be to not think you're making a practice throw when you're in a legal stance that could be called your next throw.


It is not completely correct to think that you can simply "re-tee" or re-throw from your previous lie as a part of the 2-stroke unsafe lie. You must first determine that the tee or your previous mark is no closer to the hole than the thrown disc. While it is not that common for your drive to end up farther from the pin than the tee, it does happen. The quoted language could lead some to think they can simply re-throw with the penalty.

so here's a question... if a player IS throwing from their lie (say a player walks over to their lie with the disc they are planning to throw in one hand, marks the lie with a mini, stands behind their mini and THEN throws the previously used disc 10' back to their bag) do you assess a practice throw penalty, or force the player to play from where they just threw that disc next to their bag and treat it as their actual throw?

the second shot that was stopped from going into the water would be inteferance(2 strokes ) and should be played from the spot the infraction occured so that his third throw is actually the fifth stroke, and if i recall correctly he carded (with penaltys)an 8 on that hole. that was how we as a group including your help, came to the descision of the appropriate penalties. If we were wrong I would like to know in case this type of situation occurs again.

so here's a question... if a player IS throwing from their lie (say a player walks over to their lie with the disc they are planning to throw in one hand, marks the lie with a mini, stands behind their mini and THEN throws the previously used disc 10' back to their bag) do you assess a practice throw penalty, or force the player to play from where they just threw that disc next to their bag and treat it as their actual throw?

If the player has taken a legal stance at his/her lie before tossing the disc back to his/her bag, the toss should be considered the actual throw. (Whether or not it will actually be called is another matter.)

The group's decision was correct. It was just after that, when I thought about the possible stroke for the OB that didn't happen due to the interference, our group had different opinons on it. When I saw this thread, I just thought I would ask the question.

One strke for erey disc in the bag, one for every disc that went OB, a strok for missplayed lie, and one for a courtacy violation. he plays th edisc from the water.