I switched from Innova to Gateway a couple months ago because the plastic was cheaper and it was a lot easier to get replacements. I also liked the Wizards, Chiefs, and ElementXs. I figured that I could learn the drivers really quickly.

The more I threw them, the more I noticed that I was losing close to 20-40 feet on my drives. And it seemed like no matter what I did, I wasn't getting much of it back.

This past weekend, I went out to Cedarock to play a couple rounds. My last round out there were played as "best lie triples" with 2 of my other friends(we only had about an hour to play 20 holes). On the last hole, I asked one of my friends to borrow his new Orc.

So I throw his Orc. It flips flat, starts to turnover slightly(light headwind), comes back and lands in the middle of the fairway. I take my beat in Spirit, and throw it and it lands in the middle of the fairway 30ft shorter than the Orc. The Orc was about 70 ft short of the basket.

I then picked up my friend's Beast when we got to the orc(I had the longest drive), throw a thumber with it, and park it under the basket.

While I am walking up the basket, I start to ask myself....why did I decide to go all gateway. :confused:

I then decided that I was going to stay with gateway but put an orc and a JK valk in the bag until I learn the gateway drivers better.

This proves my point on why it does not make sence for people to be completely dedicated to one manufacturer over another when they are not sponsored.

Each manufacturer makes great discs, some better then others. Not every disc by one manufacturer is for you. Throw what works best for you. I mainly use Innova Drivers and Discraft Mids. I have a few intermingled between eachother, 1 discraft diver and 2 innova mids. I just won a couple of Gateway discs and am going to try them out after this weekend. I doubt they will have a place in my bag, just because they will be similar to something I already throw.

Throw what you know, and know what you throw. That is the best advice ever given to me be outside from what my coach as taught me.

Don't be one of those guys who throws all of "X" brand because their simple brains find peace in believing one company is "the best", or that only discs of the same brand are somehow compatible. Sounds like your scores have already been taking a hit, so learn from your error and get out there and try some more plastic! :) If you are trying to get sponsered I really don't think disc companies take into consideration what a top player throws when they decide to sponser them. Its performance that earns sponsership, not loyalty.

Don't be one of those guys who throws all of "X" brand because their simple brains find peace in believing one company is "the best", or that only discs of the same brand are somehow compatible. Sounds like your scores have already been taking a hit, so learn from your error and get out there and try some more plastic! :) If you are trying to get sponsered I really don't think disc companies take into consideration what a top player throws when they decide to sponser them. Its performance that earns sponsership, not loyalty.



The above is one of the best posts i've ever read. I think you should say this a little bit louder so some of my Texican friends hear you all the way from Kalamazooooooooooo.

it does not make sence for people to be completely dedicated to one manufacturer over another when they are not sponsored.




Couldn't agree more



I mainly use Innova Drivers and Discraft Mids. I have a few intermingled between eachother,



Same here.

I have really started liking the DX Beast. Whereas I lost my Z Cyclone in the river the other day and didn't really care. Threw it sidearm and the bastard flipped hard and rolled right in. Now my only non-innova driver is an X-Predator. That one will definitely be replaced if I lose it.

Well like I said, I was throwing all gateway becuase it was cheaper and I don't have to worry about consistancy. If I lost a Spirit, I could pick up another one and I knew what it would fly like.

Throwing gateway drivers did help me though. I really think it helped my form when I threw that orc. I will be going out later this week(tomorrow?) and throwing more stuff.

I know I can throw the Gateway stuff as far as my innova stuff. I just have to figure out the correct height, angle of release, etc.

Throwing gateway drivers did help me though. I really think it helped my form when I threw that orc.



I don't know about this...Sounds like the fact that the Orc was less overstable helped you. There is nothing fundamentally different about Gateway drivers that could help your form. In fact, because Gateway's high tech drivers are so good at dampening off-axis torque due to inefficient throwing form, if anything they would further mask your mechanical weaknesses.

It actually did. The only disc that I have in my bag that was very overstable is the Speed Demon. The other discs are at a point where I don't have to throw them with anhyzer.

Since the orc is not as overstable as gateway stuff is, I knew that if I wanted to get a little more distance, I could throw the orc with the same amount of hyzer and the orc would flip flat, turnover some, and then come back at the end.

I used to throw Orcs flat and they would turn over for me easily and some times not come out of the turnover.

Yeah I know it sounds weird.

From my experience with a Gateway Driver (very limited), they definately fly a LONG way.

The only driver I bought was an H Spirit, and that thing was AWESOME. I threw it with a little anhyzer low to the ground and it flew straight (or slightly anhyzer) forever and then finished hyzer at the end.

My point is that it flew just as far, if not farther than any of my other drivers in my bag. FAST AS HELL!

I know what you mean. The H-Spirit was my straight driver, but I wasn't getting as much max d from it.

I still want to figure out the gateway drivers, which is why I am keeping them in the bag.

Max-D Max-D Max-D!!!

oh wait, nevermind.....ill stick with controllable distance

In my experience each of Gateway's distance drivers are the exact same disc, just modified enough to produce 3 different stabilities. That is not enough variety for me. I like having an understable driver that still has great glide, or a really slow, overstable disc, or many other possibilities that no single disc company has experimented with fully.

Max-D Max-D Max-D!!!

oh wait, nevermind.....ill stick with controllable distance



Cedarock is mostly wide open.
If you look at last year's sneeky pete results, you will see that I shot a 62(20 holes) in the first round. The pins were in the Pro Long configuration. That put me on the 3rd card in the advanced division. The reason why I shot that well is because I was able to throw huge D to make some holes easier to birdie and others a lot easier to par.

There is not a substitute for controlled D, but there needs to be a balance between the two.

From my experience with a Gateway Driver (very limited), they definately fly a LONG way.

The only driver I bought was an H Spirit, and that thing was AWESOME. I threw it with a little anhyzer low to the ground and it flew straight (or slightly anhyzer) forever and then finished hyzer at the end.

My point is that it flew just as far, if not farther than any of my other drivers in my bag. FAST AS HELL!



Couldn't agree more...when thrown right, Spirits and Illusions can get you extra distance because they are SO fast!

In my experience each of Gateway's distance drivers are the exact same disc, just modified enough to produce 3 different stabilities. That is not enough variety for me. I like having an understable driver that still has great glide, or a really slow, overstable disc, or many other possibilities that no single disc company has experimented with fully.



Spirits and Speed Demons are roughly the same mold, but Illusions and the new driver David has in the works are in NO way similar to a Spirit. The new driver (ask David for details) should be stable/understable.

And as far as understable with glide....have you ever heard of the Sabre!?!?? Thing goes so far its stupid! Glide like no other!

Yeah, I like the Sabre. Well the E Sabre. I never could get the feel for the S-Sabre.

is 2 over on a completely open course that great of a round? I can comfortably throw 350, and am very happy with it because it always goes the same place (no wind) What good is throwing 450+ feet if its going to be 50 feet off-line?

Yeah, I like the Sabre. Well the E Sabre. I never could get the feel for the S-Sabre.



I'm in the same boat...I saw what the "S" Sabre could do for others and tried SO hard to throw it...but to no avail. But the new clear "E" Sabres perfectly fit my style, and they have become my main control driver for sure!

I have Gateway, Discraft and Innova discs in my bag, but I can see how people could throw discs from one manufacturer. Most people probably think equipment has more of an effect on their game than it really does. It has probably been said on this board thousands of times, but good players can throw many different discs well. I have four different Gateway Sabres in my bag because they are the most reliable driver for me. I've had people tell me that Sabres aren't long enough, but I see plenty of people who can't throw over 350' release a very fast very stable disc with an anhyzer to get distance. Throw what works for you and throw discs that are appropriate for your power and technique.

I couldn't agree more with you! Plus, those people have never seen a big arm throw a Sabre...Shawn Sinclair can get his over 600' and I know Justin can get his WAY out there too!

I can only get my Sabres or Blazes to max out around 300.

-Beached Will


Oh has anyone else noticed that the Element/ElementX is deceptively slow? Like I throw one and it is in the air for a while and I am like yeah that got some distance on it. Then it falls 50 feet shorter than what you think it was.

Throw what you know and know what you throw. Thats the best advice on disc selection i have ever heard.

Any good player can be good with any discs. You could give any good player that throws Innova a bag full of equivelant Discraft discs and about a week after getting used to them he would play the same as he did before. Same goes for Discraft to Innova. I throw all Discraft but if for some reason i didnt have my discs and all i could play with was Innova I could Grab a Firebird an Orc a Teebird a Roc and an Aviar and play just as well as i do with my Discraft. I just prefer the way the Discraft feels and how consistent it is. Alot of their disc fit my game VERY WELL so thats what i throw.

My advice is throw EVERYTHING untill you find what works for you then get a few of each of those and set your bag. Once you get a set bag and learn it your scores will increase just because of that. You will know what you throw and then youll be throwing what you know and there is NO reaplacement for confidence in your plastic.

Just to let people know, I don't throw Gateway anymore. After I got a $150 ace in a 1 disc doubles tourny I decided that I did a lot better when I was throwing innova and discraft. Gateway just wasn't meant for me.

Ever since I have switched back, I can definately tell my game has gotten a lot better. The one thing that hasn't come back is my distance which is not a really bad thing except for courses like Cedaroc in NC where I played last weekend. It is a mainly open course(20 holes) with most holes around 350 feet from the pro pads to the short pin positions. This year I was around 40 feet short on the longer holes when last year I would have been able to get it around 20 feet short of the basket. Since I had few birdie chances, I shot E for the round which put me on the next to last card.

I had been throwing CFR starfires and Orcs for my main distance driver, but I am going to probably replace the Orc with my old 150 ZFlick.

Let me get this straight...you lost distance and blamed it on Gateway's drivers. You switched back after an ace (BTW, aces are dumb luck) and still have less distance than previous. HMMM...I don't think its the discs fault on this one.

Always keep an open mind and follow what Pimp said on here about throwing EVERYTHING until you find what works.

1) You must have missed the part where I said, "Gateway just didn't work for me"

2) When I was throwing gateway I did lose about 50-60 feet of distance. I could never get the hang of the illusion as my main sistance driver. I was mostly using a max weight speed demon and throwing with some anhyzer to get my max d on hopen holes. In order to get some distance I was having to roll my wrist over which is really bad form and it took a couple of weeks to break that habit.

3) The ace was lucky I will admit it because normally on the hole I would throw a roc or a wasp. I really loved the Proto E element-x. It was firm and it was overstable compared to the E Element X that I got in return. The Element-X ended up being a straight to turnover midrange for me until I replaced it with my CE Roc. I ended up giving my E Element to a guy that doesn't have as much power as I do, and it works great for him. He even got an ace with it.

Before I switched to Gateway and while I was throwing gateway and after I switched back I was throwing really hard. I was putting a lot of force behind my throws and I wasn't able to throw it reliably where I wanted to. Then earlier this summer I helped a friend move some office furniture and my muscles got really sore. The next day there was a monthly tourny and I couldn't throw as hard as I used to. Those 2 rounds were the best rounds because I was able to throw and predict where the disc was going to land because I couldn't throw as hard.

Ever since that tourny I have been a little timid on throwing hard. I don't want to get back into the habit of throwing hard and uncontrolled. Instead I am happy being able to throw a driver reliably instead of trying to crush a drive and screw it up. Eventually I will be able to get my distance back.

I never said that gateway was bad. I just said it wasn't good for me.

The one thing I do suggest though is to get your plastic a little more durable. Even though E plastic is your best plastic, the illusion, spirit, and speed demon'a noses are so thin that even the E plastic gets really beat in(i know they don't have E illusions yet). One of my friends have gone through several H-Illusions because they got too flippy for him. Hell the 157g S Illusion that I gave him is his most overstable illusion.

People always say, "Throw what works for you." Gateway didn't work for me.

Once you get a set bag and learn it your scores will increase just because of that.



Pimp also said this!

All the lighter Illusions Ive seen have been more overstable than the heaviest. Alot of peoples views on Gateway have changed, and more will change when the more Teebird-ish disc comes out. They may not have alot to choose from now but will eventually. I really am also unsure about the durability comment. Although I dont throw it, Gateways E plastic seems to be some of the more durable plastic out, and you alos seem to GAIN distance as it ages. I have firends throwing the first Spirits and Speed Demons in E plastic that seem to keep getting longer.

The reason why the throws are getting a little longer is because they are getting beat in a little. I had E speed demons that I could throw 350 feet before they crashed. But that was after I threw it for a couple weeks and beat it in. When you think of the companies top plastic, you don't expect to have to tune it to get the best flight out of it.

The E-Blaze and E Sabre are nice fliers and they can take a beating because the nose isn't as sharp.

The reason those drivers get so beat even in "E" plastic is becuase the nose is so sharp.. There won't be a plastic Stiff/durable enough to keep that from happening as super stiff plastic isn't legal anymore.

ORCS/FLASHES/MONSTERS/ETC can all get beat as well becasue they have a sharp nose that can easily get eaten up in Champion plastic..

But like you said.. for YOU gateway wasn't working out and that's fine. In your case you are more comfortable with other plastic and that's great, but don't bash gateway. They have come a long way and are going in the right direction and E plastic is the most durable on the market.

-Scott Lewis

FYI: There are "E" Illusions floating around that are SUPER similar to a CE/Z type imaginary blend...super durable, and easy to grip. Most similar plastic to old CE I've ever seen not counting the "E" Nike Spirits! :D

I do see your point about breaking discs in, but its a well known fact that broken in discs fade later in flight (In all molds) and stay in a given "zone" of broken-in-ness for a longer period of time.

I'm not bashing gateway at all. If you go back and look at my old posts when I was throwing all gateway(except for a valk for a turnover driver) I was praising it.

I was just pointing out that Gateway didn't work for me. And I still think that gateway has the grippiest low end plastic out there.

Yeah!!! Who wants their scores to INCREASE? I've been looking for those discs that will LOWER my scores!

I'm not bashing gateway at all. If you go back and look at my old posts when I was throwing all gateway(except for a valk for a turnover driver) I was praising it.

I was just pointing out that Gateway didn't work for me. And I still think that gateway has the grippiest low end plastic out there.



Its all good buddy...this is all just a product of internet miscommunication. No harm no foul.

Gateway is better than lightning at least.

Gateway is better than lightning at least.



Well no sh*t...Gateway is on the same level as Discraft and Innova as far as quality, let alone Lightning. WOW...that was a really obvious one there.

I wouldnt go that far hamburgler. Lightning is poor, Gatewway average, and Discraft and Innova are the shiznit.

Keep trying though.

incorrect.. Gateway are right under discraft/innova, but so close it's probably scaring them.. They can compette with demands and their E plastic is amazing.. THeir new glow discs are better than innova or discraft and the only thing they dont' really doyet are fundraiser discs..
other than that they hvae a full lineup of discs with 3 different plastics and their newer stuff is really sending a message to the other manufacturers.

I would love to get sponsored by gateway and would totally support them.

-Scott Lewis

Nicelt put Scott!! Most people form their opinions w/o even ever trying Gateway's discs. And I mean actually trying, not throwing once and deciding.

I sell discs, and have had the opportunity to throw most everything that comes my way, and i will say this. All disc companies have their strengths and weaknesses, the major difference between the two big companies (discraft/innova) is the number of production discs out there. If the smaller companies had the same number of discs in production, all this discussion would be moot. It all comes down to variety, more people throw discraft and innova because they give me more choices in styles of disc to throw. when i find another company's disc that fits a niche i will throw it.

I sell discs, and have had the opportunity to throw most everything that comes my way, and i will say this. All disc companies have their strengths and weaknesses, the major difference between the two big companies (discraft/innova) is the number of production discs out there. If the smaller companies had the same number of discs in production, all this discussion would be moot. It all comes down to variety, more people throw discraft and innova because they give me more choices in styles of disc to throw. when i find another company's disc that fits a niche i will throw it.



And with that, I point out that Innova and Discraft have been doing this for 20+ years, where Gateway has only been around since 1999, and even then, only having a more complete line up lately.

2) When I was throwing gateway I did lose about 50-60 feet of distance. I could never get the hang of the illusion as my main sistance driver. I was mostly using a max weight speed demon and throwing with some anhyzer to get my max d on hopen holes. In order to get some distance I was having to roll my wrist over which is really bad form and it took a couple of weeks to break that habit.




I throw mostly Gateway now and the only discs I use that aren't Gateway are discs I throw for distance. My technique isn't good enough to throw an Illusion consistantly far and I lose too many discs to rely on a disc being beaten in to be useful.