I was checking out some tournament results from 2005 so far and it looked to me like AM divisions were getting paid out in cash. Am I missing something here??? Tournament results (http://pdga.com/schedule/event.php?TournID=4859)

Those numbers should be the retail value of the prizes the ams won. TDs are supposed to report those values for the ams in their TD reports, but few do.

Or those that do have those numbers removed by the PDGA as they are "merch" values and not real cash.

Or those that do have those numbers removed by the PDGA as they are "merch" values and not real cash.


Son of a gun! I wondered why I was the only one reporting am merch values, and now I see that the dollar figures have been stripped out of all the past tourney results I've submitted!

ya learn something new everyday.

My guess is that when those unofficial results become "official", the am merch values will go away in the results.


Why do we have to report the dollar value when it gets thrown away?

Why do we have to report the dollar value when it gets thrown away?



See the whole Pro vs. Am debate....

(And no, that is NOT an opening to begin that discussion here...)

I think it would be good data to have. That way you could query career earnings for ams. Seems like good info to be able to access. Particularly since that data has been submitted.

Thanks again for pointing that out.

I was checking out some tournament results from 2005 so far and it looked to me like AM divisions were getting paid out in cash. Am I missing something here??? Tournament results (http://pdga.com/schedule/event.php?TournID=4859)



Yes it was straight green backs. :D

I was checking out some tournament results from 2005 so far and it looked to me like AM divisions were getting paid out in cash. Am I missing something here??? Tournament results (http://pdga.com/schedule/event.php?TournID=4859)



Yes it was straight green backs. :D



:confused: :confused:

That was the "Cash Value" of the merchindice that the players were allowed to pick. That did not include the Trophy in the payouts. I know this because I played 2 of the Big Show events. (That and I know Mace)

I think it would be good data to have. That way you could query career earnings for ams. Seems like good info to be able to access. Particularly since that data has been submitted.

I think it would be good information to have so that you could see whether a tournament has had good payouts for your division in the past. Then you wouldn't have to be shocked at the end of the thing and then start a rip-off thread. :D

But then some TDs would be held accountable and we can't have that....

But then some TDs would be held accountable and we can't have that....



Isnt that a different thread?

The ams ARE playing for money when they walk away with a stack of plastic that they turn into cash by selling it.
:eek:

Maybe the PDGA doesn't want the public to see (via the website) that ams ARE being paid?

The ams ARE playing for money when they walk away with a stack of plastic that they turn into cash by selling it.
:eek:

Maybe the PDGA doesn't want the public to see (via the website) that ams ARE being paid?




Come on! How about a response to this from the PDGA. :cool:

Who really cares??? Why does it even matter??? How does it affect anything really???

Because I believe everything I read out here I took a stack of discs to the bank today when I deposited my pay check. The lady at the bank is quite certain that discs are not money. Now I don't know who to believe! :confused:

:D

The ams ARE playing for money when they walk away with a stack of plastic that they turn into cash by selling it.
:eek:

Maybe the PDGA doesn't want the public to see (via the website) that ams ARE being paid?



Maybe you are a little upset because your not getting any of this plastic to sell?

I won plastic in probably 13- 15 tournaments last year. Did I sell some of it? Yes. Did I sell it well below retail? Yes. Did I have a bunch of stuff I couldn't sell? Yes.

I probably donated half of what I won last year to local tournamets. I know I donated over $300 in merch to tournaments last year.

And I'm an unemployed college student, not someone with a job to whom that amount doesn't mean too much. I would go to a tournament, win some plastic, then hopefully sell some of it to be able to afford the next tournaments entry fee. It wasn't a profitable business at all, but it worked.

If there's anyone out there who can travel to tournaments and win back enough plastic at each tournament to pay for hotel, gas, food, entry fees, etc. I would like to meet him.

Because I believe everything I read out here I took a stack of discs to the bank today when I deposited my pay check. The lady at the bank is quite certain that discs are not money. Now I don't know who to believe! :confused:

:D


Tell that to Innove, Discraft, Gateway and Lightening.
Tell it to sponsored players given product to sell as their main form of sponsorship.
In short, don't reduce the discussion to the point of silliness and then say, "Pshah! See Amateurs in disc golf are Amateurs, it's as clear and simple as that!" When it is nothing of the sort and somewhere in that dome of yours you know it.

You were due... ;)

what are ams expected to do with boxes upon boxes of plastic?? :D

Sell them. I've done it. Sold them and gave away a bunch at our Ice Bowl (along with the "official" stuff). Others I've stashed for later. I still call myself an am, only becuase that's what the division is currenly known as. Change the name then, for gosh sakes. All I want to do is play against people of the same skill level. I'm certainly NOT going to donate. rwc3523 :cool:

"Prize Class"

Cashers and Prizers welcome, all payouts in prizes. Amateurs forfeit amateur status by competing in this or the "Cash Class".

If there's anyone out there who can travel to tournaments and win back enough plastic at each tournament to pay for hotel, gas, food, entry fees, etc. I would like to meet him.

There's only a small percentage of Pros who do that and that's probably because they are sponsored.

Nick, that works for me :DI mean, what's in a name? Am. Advanced. Advanced master. Prize. Master Prize. Prize Master :p Yeah, I'm a Prize Master! :DCan't compete with the Cash (Open) or Cash Masters, so I'll hang with the Prize Masters. ;) Heck, I can "merch" with regularity (regularly) in SN, but have a harder time when I hit those biiiiiiiggggggg PDGA events outside the southeast. Shoot, with my PDGA rating, I qualify for Am (or intermediate, or whatever). Actually, a true am class is probably a good idea, but having to juggle sooooooo many divisions is what I think turns many off to it. rWc3523

Nick, that works for me :DI mean, what's in a name? Am. Advanced. Advanced master. Prize. Master Prize. Prize Master :p Yeah, I'm a Prize Master! :DCan't compete with the Cash (Open) or Cash Masters, so I'll hang with the Prize Masters. ;) Heck, I can "merch" with regularity (regularly) in SN, but have a harder time when I hit those biiiiiiiggggggg PDGA events outside the southeast. Shoot, with my PDGA rating, I qualify for Am (or intermediate, or whatever). Actually, a true am class is probably a good idea, but having to juggle sooooooo many divisions is what I think turns many off to it. rWc3523



What's in a name? Well, in a Bush world where up is down, lies truth and death threats and murder a sign of belief in the sanctity of human life, not much apparently. But in a world where words have meaning and fit what they symbolize �Prize Class� certainly is a little more dead on than �Amateur Class� (and �Cash Class� more dead on than �Professional�). We can only hope that someday �Professional� and �Amateur� will be appropriate names to use for yet to be established classes in organized disc golf�

Because I believe everything I read out here I took a stack of discs to the bank today when I deposited my pay check. The lady at the bank is quite certain that discs are not money. Now I don't know who to believe! :confused:

:D


Tell that to Innove, Discraft, Gateway and Lightening.
Tell it to sponsored players given product to sell as their main form of sponsorship.
In short, don't reduce the discussion to the point of silliness and then say, "Pshah! See Amateurs in disc golf are Amateurs, it's as clear and simple as that!" When it is nothing of the sort and somewhere in that dome of yours you know it.

You were due... ;)




Bla bla bla. I am fortunate enough to have never wasted any of my time reading about the 'true am class' that is talked about on this board from time to time.

I was in advanced for many years too long and I won hundreds upon hundreds of discs. I remember walking away with so many discs that I needed to ask the TD if I could borrow some boxes just to take them all home.

Where are those discs just 4 or 5 years later? They are still sitting in the same boxes I took them home in. Some people sell discs and some people don't. When I sandbagged in Advanced it wasn't to support myself while attending college, it was because I was too stupid to move up hang with the big boys. I didn't think I could do it. My first pro event quickly let me see that was not the case. Sandbaggers are going to sandbag no matter what divisions or classes are out there because they are too lame to realize they are only hurting themselves.

For what it's worth Nick - I follow this board about 1/100th as much as I used to a few years ago because some people like to bring up the same argument over and over again thereby ruinning thread after thread. I don't know much else but come on, let it die already. Also - if you have such a problem with the "am divisions" why haven't you started your own organization?

Bla bla bla. I am fortunate enough to have never wasted any of my time reading about the 'true am class' that is talked about on this board from time to time.


Terry, let�s set aside the fact that you are engaged in �blah blah blah� as much as anyone else here and discuss the points you raise. (As someone who uses this board as much as anyone it is of interest to note how there is actually more �blah blah blah� about �blah blah blah� than there is �blah blah blah�! )


I was in advanced for many years too long and I won hundreds upon hundreds of discs. I remember walking away with so many discs that I needed to ask the TD if I could borrow some boxes just to take them all home.


Many organizers and players contend that it is exactly this type of player that has frustrated and caused the early exit or non-participation of new players from our sport. (Not me however.)


Where are those discs just 4 or 5 years later? They are still sitting in the same boxes I took them home in. Some people sell discs and some people don't. When I sandbagged in Advanced it wasn't to support myself while attending college, it was because I was too stupid to move up hang with the big boys. I didn't think I could do it. My first pro event quickly let me see that was not the case. Sandbaggers are going to sandbag no matter what divisions or classes are out there because they are too lame to realize they are only hurting themselves.


I disagree adamantly Terry and here is why: You say that it is a lack of individual character, character that you yourself admit to lacking, that causes �Sandbagging�. Even if this were true, which it may be to a degree, isn�t the competitive system that allows this clearly unhealthy practice to continue the main culprit? Wouldn�t correcting the structure do more than moral and ethical guidance on an individual level to correct this flaw? The solution your comments hint at is nothing new, it can be summed up as �Move up, move up, move out�, a time tested and proven method of generating inter-classification and inter-divisional malcontent and dysfunction.


For what it's worth Nick - I follow this board about 1/100th as much as I used to a few years ago because some people like to bring up the same argument over and over again thereby ruinning thread after thread. I don't know much else but come on, let it die already. Also - if you have such a problem with the "am divisions" why haven't you started your own organization?


Terry, there is a phrase that comes to mind, �If you can�t stand the heat, then get out of the kitchen.� As I see it you lack true conviction in your ideas and the fortitude to continue the dialog in an ongoing attempt to bring them to fruition. Would threads be more enjoyable for you if hearsay and half-truths were permitted to go on in perpetuity without challenge? Probably. But you have to accept that not everyone �enjoys� that sort of mindless tail-chasing exercise. As always you have a choice however.

I do not start my own organization for a host of good reasons, the main one being that I am a PDGA Member. I believe in the PDGA. I have worked towards the betterment of the PDGA. I want the PDGA to succeed. I believe the PDGA will succeed.

Having been involved in disc golf organization and other volunteer organizations I have taken the attitude necessary to be a contributing member. That I must do everything that I am able to further the greater goals of the organization with all that I am able to bring to bear on the tasks immediately at hand. Hear on the PDGA DISCussion Board that would be discussing ideas that might lead to actions, which would result in our moving towards successful achievement of those greater goals. (That and it is fun as S!)

At any rate, don�t allow yourself to get so upset that you disengage. Have fun with what you enjoy and ignore the rest (or think about it), it's up to you.