is there much difference in the pro beast, orc, and starfire? if so, what? how do these compare to the dx beasts and dx orcs? thanks

Steve,
Is Innovca using the term "high speed drivers" to describe their discs or is that just you?

least overstable ----> most overstable
beast , orc , starfire

there isn't much of a difference between pro and dx, except that the dx line might be a little more understable. Im not sure there even are dx orcs and starfires but I could be wrong.

I can not comment on the Starfire but the Beast and Orc and less stable than there Champion and even DX (new) counter parts. The DX beats in quickly but out of the box it is more stable than the Pro. IMHO

There is a big difference in stability between different colors in the 1st run of Pro Orcs, the white ones are ok (less stable thenm the Champs though), but the red ones where really understable!

Dave,
I'm pretty sure Innova refers to those drivers as distance drivers. The high-speed designation was probably used by steven because the Orc, Beast, and Starfire are all rated 10 on Innova's speed scale, making them the highest speed drivers Innova makes.

they might want to take that speed scale to 15

they might want to take that speed scale to 15



Are you saying that those discs are THAT fast? Or are you making fun of their system of having so many different discs scaled out to be that fast?

Either way, I got a laugh out of it.

Are you saying that those discs are THAT fast?


i think he was referring to the fact that as disc production technology continues to make huge improvements/changes in max distance drivers, there will need to be a modification of the "Speed: 1-10" scale. otherwise, innova is, in essence, admitting that they have already produced several of the "fastest" discs they will ever make, leaving no room for impovements down the road. and if the scale is not changed, what do you rate a disc that is "faster" than an orc or starfire? 10?
i have a question, if anyone is interested: do you think innova, discraft or gateway have developed any discs that they are not releasing yet, in fear that they will make other discs on the market somewhat obsolete, but will release in several years when the general population is ready for them? just a thought.

They already changed it once. For a while, the speed was rated from 1-9. This changed after the Beast and Monster came out(IIRC)

I can answer for Gateway since I own the company.
We are working on a new disc right now it is still in the design phaze. We dont really have the the liberty of building molds and not using them.
The new disc will be release within days of the mold being completed ( hopefully). :cool:
Our new driver will actually be slower than our current High speed Stuff like the Sprit, Illusion and Speed demon.
We jumped ahead on speed and in my opinion they are still trying to catch up!

I Know Jim at Discraft has 4 or 5 more new disc ready to go at all times and I'm sure innova has just as many as well.

I wouldnt look for them to get much faster without also being less overstable!
I look for a new trend soon and have a few ideas that have to do with control and glide ;)

thanks for the speedy reply (no pun intended). it's always a pleasure hearing good news straight from the source, and it's even better when it's news about future improvements to the sport. it's great to hear that gateway is doing well and has plans to compete for a significant share of the disc golf market in the very near future. if you don't mind, i was wondering if i could ask you what you consider to be the "purpose" of the speed demon in the gateway line-up? i bought one about 2 years ago and threw it for a while, but could never get it to fly for more than 300 ft before tomb-stoning into the ground :(. would you consider it more of a "trick" disc, forehand disc, or is it just in the "other" category?

I have some of the re-tooled speed demons that aren't that over stable in fact they are straight. I throw it about 4-5' of the ground and it flies flat and fades about 10' at the end of its flight. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif I can show you some Gateway stuff if you every decide to play Macgregor Bass or Brooks.

You may be able to throw the SD like that Matt, but us mortals don't have that unreal ability you seem to have. ;) :cool:

thanks for the speedy reply (no pun intended). it's always a pleasure hearing good news straight from the source, and it's even better when it's news about future improvements to the sport. it's great to hear that gateway is doing well and has plans to compete for a significant share of the disc golf market in the very near future. if you don't mind, i was wondering if i could ask you what you consider to be the "purpose" of the speed demon in the gateway line-up? i bought one about 2 years ago and threw it for a while, but could never get it to fly for more than 300 ft before tomb-stoning into the ground :(. would you consider it more of a "trick" disc, forehand disc, or is it just in the "other" category?



You described it use right there...extreme spike hyzers, forehands and other trick shots (Skips, UDs etc.) People look at it a crap disc sometimes b/c they expect too much out of it. If you NEED a left finish...Speed Demon. Need to turn a disc over to get around stuff, but NEED a hyzer...Speed Demon. Get where I'm going with this...Speed Demons can go far, but are great b/c they have a easily defined limit. (In your example, you said you can't get it farther than 300'...then only use it 300' and in for spike hyzers...won't ever fail you!!)

Here:
http://www.gdstour.com/discs/index.html

The Speed Demon is desscribed to be used by Pros and Adv. players for:
Spike Hyzers
Overhand/Sidearms
Specialty Shots

okay, thanks for the info guys. hopefully i'll make it out to some of the courses soon if it ever stops raining.

I am also a Mortal and I just happened to get a hold of some unusually straight ones. The newer spirits in my bag are a lot more overstable. :D:D

do you get your gateway stuff off the internet, or do you pick it up from a retailer? i looked at rick's darts and games and they didn't seem to have much to pick from, but maybe i just didn't know what i was looking at. could you make some comparisons between specific gateway and innova discs in case i pick some up, so i'll know better what to expect?

What discs you want comparisons of? Let it be known and you will have a ton of replies.

I get them directly from the shop because I can do that. No really calling the shop would be the easiest way to get the right disc. :D:D

Shouldn't you be in school, Matt?

I have talked to Isaiah's wife and asked her to order some Gateway.... (she works at Ricks.... darts and games) go ahead and call Rick's and ask for Gateway and maybe just maybe they will feel there is a demand for them and I am sure they will stock them. I have seen putters there.

If you are considering trying out gateway you can always hit them up on the misprint package they got going right now. 10 discs for 50 bones. They have perfect flight but just small cosmetic errors on the stamps. I use all gateway and just ordered a pack myself. Call the shop and talk to Justin or Ozzy.

The town of Livingston (Hicksville) has determined that Matt just cannot be educated and they have decided that it is easier to just let him wander around campus and post anytime he wishes. :p

The town of Livingston (Hicksville) has determined that Matt just cannot be educated and they have decided that it is easier to just let him wander around campus and post anytime he wishes. :p


Sounds about right. :D

could you make some comparisons between specific gateway and innova discs in case i pick some up, so i'll know better what to expect?



I have some reviews that I posted on the Gateway forums (www.gdstour.com) under the "Discs" forum with the title "My Review of Gateway Discs". It isn't a complete review of all of their discs but it's a start.

Here's a quick, probably very debatable, list of comparisons that I see:

Wizard - Aviar
Element - Cobra or beat Roc (I haven't thrown a Cobra, but I've heard they're really close)
Sabre - cross between Roc and Pro Teebird-L. It can be thrown slower like a Roc and will hold its line or it can be thrown faster to get "fairway driver" type distance with very little fade. Apparently if you throw it higher it will go quite far. I got better distance out of the Pro TL, though.
Blaze - an overstable Gazelle
Illusion - apparently the Illusion I had (S prototype) is one of the more overstable runs and I had a 176g so it was beefy. Its flight kind of reminded me of a brand new, overstable DX Beast but felt different. I also don't have much experience with high speed drivers, so there's probably a better analogy.
Spirit - don't know, but it sure is overstable. It also always ends up going farther than I thought it would. Skips like a mofo when it hits the ground, too...usually straight sideways for me.

Spirit is a overstable viking IMO.

Speed Demon is a longer whippit.

We could also compare the Element X to a Buzzz

Comparing the Element X to a buzz is a very good comparison in my opinion.

I would compare the element-x to a wasp myself...which is pretty close to a buzzz. :D

I said it was a good comparison, but a perfect one... buzz wasp not much difference in the ones I have seen.

Yeah, it all depends on how you throw them too.

I can throw my element-x very straight with little fade at the end, but my wasps have more of a fade at the end.

Don't you love how we are discussing Gateway and Discraft understable midranges in a thread called Innova High Speed Pro Drivers? :D:D

Yep. Gateway's taking over.

Have you ever thought that maybe just maybe I am really smart and have free time after I do my work? This should be fun. :D:D

I think you are way smarter than you spell. :p

As for you I believe that you are smarter than you smell. :D:D

Hey I may spell the words wrong but at least all the letters are there(just not in the right order). :D:D

Hey I may spell the words wrong but at least all the letters are there(just not in the right order). :D:D


Yeah who cares about order, its the enaming that counts. :D;)

What is that supposed to enam?

enaming is meaning if you rearrange the letters. Scoot said he could get all the right letters in there but not the right order... you totally missed the joke and its not funny anymore.

he was joking around when he said what is that supposed to enam.. He used the mispelled word in the sentence because he knew what they were saying.. :)

BTW.. Wasp and BUzzz are very different.. or at least i should say that the FIRST RUN BUZZZ and wasp are different...

-"I suck" Scott

I got his joke, just I am a fan of very dry sarcasm. Get it? :p

Really? He mispelled it on purpose? Never thought he enamt to do that...

Ok ok, we all get the okje. :D

Yes, back onto high speed drivers...Is it just me, or is the DX ORC much more (over)stable than it champion counterpart? I threw both (175gm) rh sidearm recently, and the champion sails straight and true, while the dx turns a hard left almost immediately. Do i need to wait for the DX to break in or should i adjust my throw for the turn? Or both?

I'm confused... are you throwing left handed?

you said it takes off left with a side arm throw, so if you are right handed that would mean that the disc is more understable than the champion one... or you are flipping it.

I haven't thrown any Dx Orcs yet but I love the champ ones for forehand drives (RHFH)

what's the general consensus? under or over when compared to the champion orc???

yes. We pointed out on another thread that the dx Orc is more stable than the Champ Orc. The dx beast is more stable than the Champ Beast and the dx viking is more stable than the Champ Viking.

I think it was mentioned in the dx orc thread, that the dx orc is purposely made overstable, so that when it is broken in it is around the same stability as the champion orc.

I think it was mentioned in the dx orc thread, that the dx orc is purposely made overstable, so that when it is broken in it is around the same stability as the champion orc.



Is that a direct quote from Dave Dunipace at Innova?

He, might have said that, I'm not quoting him, I just think i remember it being said the dx orc thread...