Hi all,

You can now find all the info you could ever want about the Beaver State Fling, including sign-up forms and links, here: http://beaverstatefling.orsdiscgolf.com/index.html

For those who haven't heard about the Fling, this year we are excited to announce that it is the 1st event in the Northwest to be part of the National Tour. It will be held May 28-29th in the Portland, OR area. The Ams (A tier) will get to play at Dabney State Park (Troutdale, OR) and the 2 courses at Milo McIver State Park (Estacada, OR). The Pros will get to play both of the courses at Milo McIver.

This year all kinds of things are coming together that should help up bring the players an outstanding, fun, and challenging event. Lots of extra activities are being arranged to make for a full and fun weekend.

Women, we have some sponsors that want to treat you especially well. Please check back for updates on what we have in store for you.

TITLEDisc.com on-line registration is up and running at http://www.titledisc.com/Events/bsf05.php

INNColor disc info is here: http://beaverstatefling.orsdiscgolf.com/merchandise_page.htm These are BEAUTIFUL discs designed by and sold through Huk Lab. 1005 of the proceeds from these discs go to the event.

If you're interested in sponsoring the BSF, or seeing who already is... this is the page for you http://beaverstatefling.orsdiscgolf.com/sponsors_page.htm

Cris has worked his tail off getting the site up and full of useful info... check it out! :)

Hmmm, I think I am going to have to go to this!

You know where you can stay. :D

You know where you can stay. :D


�Muchas gracias se�or!

Hi Teresa :) Man, that would be a great time for a vacation. I could fly in Thursday night, play in the tournament and have the whole next week to visit my old friends in Tigard. I bet Oregon is nice in May, too.

Oregon is nice right now! For some reason, the jet streams are protecting us from any stom activity and we've got almost summer weather going on!. We should have nice weather at the end of May too... and it will be light out fairly late, like 8:49 PM (I love long summer evenings!)

Players packs are looking sweet (Pros get some this year)... more details as they become concrete :D

For those of you who saw the SWEET INNcolor Innova BSF CFR Glow Orcs at the Memorial... but missed out because they sold out SO FAST... you're in luck! Another order is in process and should be done soon. For info on how to get your hands on these beautiful Glow Orcs use this link: http://beaverstatefling.orsdiscgolf.com/merchandise_page.htm

Ryan... we missed you at the Memorial! :eek: Hope to see you soon! :D

GoTTa get a post in on this thread since I will be aTTending it in May.

Actually, I think the Matsers Cup comes first ?
But I don't know if we're techinically the "Northwest" ?
We're certainley NOT Southwest :o

None the less Beaver State look like a great event.

<font color="purple"> Workin on gettin 3/4ths of Team Jenkins out there this year! Can't wait!! :cool:(Hi Teresa! :D)</font>

All of Team Jenkins needs to represent.

I am currently lifting weights and practicing putting so that I can fill in, if asked, as a member of "Team Jenkins."

From the look of it, this is going to be a don't miss event. Unless you're Rhett. Then you can miss it. :D

RheTT needs to step up ad get up to Oregon for this event.

Ryan... we missed you at the Memorial! :eek: Hope to see you soon! :D



Yes, it was a depressing situation! I had to cancel due to financial breakdowns in the last minute. I spent way too much money at the Wintertime open, then my car broke down ($1000). I was so looking forward to the tournament, but sometimes it is best to be responsible.

I am still planning on attending the Beaver Fling, I going to be living off ramen noodle soup and saving my pennies religiously.

Can't wait to see my fellow Oregonians again, miss you guys a lot!

Somebodys gotta hold down camp.. plus Kirby (our dog)doesn't fit in the overhead compartment :Dbut we're tryin to figure summin out!! :D

For anyone having trouble making up their minds about this tourney, here are a few links to pictures of the courses. The Riverbend course is a permanent 27, but we'll be playing two courses of 18 (I believe). Dabney may have a few changes as well, but at least you can get an idea of what we'll be playing!

Dabney State Park (http://www.leftcoastdiscgolf.com/index.php?option=com_zoom&Itemid=42&catid=83)

Riverbend Course at Milo McIver State Park (http://www.leftcoastdiscgolf.com/index.php?option=com_zoom&Itemid=42&catid=64)

See you all in May! :D

If anybody hasn't seen the Inn color disc for this tourney you are missing out. Buy a Fundraiser disc. :D

:cool:Schweb is right about the Fund Raisers they are very sweet :D

Last year Barry shot 54/1007 53/1022 :eek:

Very Solid course's you don't want to miss a chance to play the River Bend course's, plus /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif the Portland Roc's have been working their BUTTZ OFF to make these course's just a little harder this year with a couple of new placement's

Everything from Huge Air shots and Rollers to Tight Tunnels plus a River on 4 holes your game will be tested ;)

You will not be disapointed if you come out this year :cool:

It will be a BLAST :cool:

Plus some of The Best BEER'S in the world are brewed up here ! :cool::cool:

If anybody hasn't seen the Inn color disc for this tourney you are missing out. Buy a Fundraiser disc. :D


No doubt.

If anybody hasn't seen the Inn color disc for this tourney you are missing out. Buy a Fundraiser disc. :D


No doubt.



So does this mean you're coming???!? :D

Who me? You know I am going to be there.

I checked airfares. No Southwest cheapies on Memorial Day weekend.

Ohhh, Him

Time to load up the family truckster? :D

Yeah what L E W said.

Drive it is more fun.

Drive it is more fun.



See the countryside, travel to exciting new places, meet interesting people, beat them in Disc Golf and take their money.

Sounds like the perfect family vacation to me! :D

Team Jenkins vs Team Stroh

STTroh?

YEAH, RheTT STTroh

I think that have to be a slam dunk for team Stroh.


We are talking about mini-golf, right? :o

:D

That's a heck of a haul for the Truckster.

Great time for the Griswold's = Great time for the Stroh's... ;) :D

I am still planning on attending the Beaver Fling, I going to be living off ramen noodle soup and saving my pennies religiously.

Can't wait to see my fellow Oregonians again, miss you guys a lot!


Yay! We miss you too! Time is flying by... pretty soon, you'll be her already! Crap! Lots to do!!!

haha.. i do suck at mini golf :D

you need to take a lesson from your bro.

Let me say for the record: I will, if asked, join the Jenkins family as an honorary member to take part in mini-golf. :D

I bet you play better than me Val! (hi! :D) I need to do some practicing... if I can't play the event, I need to play mini at least!

Tag-team mini golf.. i'll sub you in! :D

I want in I will be representing Team Trim.

Don't bother, Schwebby. Us Jenkineseses will be taking it all home (to where ever we all live) :D

BOOOOOOO, TTrim will rule..!!!!

Game on!!.. See you at on the putt putt range punk!

Game on!!.. See you at on the putt putt range punk!

Hey, why i gots to be a punk.

Just had an organizer's meeting last night. This is going to be a top notch event. I can't believe it's only 55+ days away!

Y'all are talking about team mini-golf just to torture me, right? :)

Y'all are talking about team mini-golf just to torture me, right? :)

Torture....Torture,.....Oh and more TORTURE.

i dunno you tell me! haha

Will there be cash skins for Amateurs at this tournament? Due to the precedent being set in Asheville, NC next weekend, Amateurs are now allowed to play for lucrative cash skins at PDGA tournaments.

Let it go.....your not even a current PDGA member...why do you care....let it go.....

Just 4.5 weeks until the huk lab Beaver State Fling...!

Just Fling It.

The energy is building out here in Portland. Looking forward to Memorial Day weekend and the BSF with many of you. We will receive our last run of INNColor Glow Orc fundraiser discs for the event this Friday, May 6th. If you or someone you know is interested in supporting the event by purchasing a disc, let me know [email protected] Can't hardly wait!

See y'all soon...
~Jay

How far is Lake Oswego from the courses.

L.O. is less then 30 mins. 20 miles easy to get there. :D

Great Courses for either the Pro's or the Am's about the same distance from both, Dabney is freeway most of the way, Riverbend is 2 lane hiway direct route. Hope this helps :cool:

Thanx
What is the Lake Oswego area like.

Mostly Middle Upper Class sort of, depends on the area though a bunch of bored police officers so drive safe. :eek: :cool:If this is what you meant........

Yes thanx
I was looking to get a hotel there.

Just two weeks to go! The event is starting to fill up, so get your registration IN! http://beaverstatefling.orsdiscgolf.com/pro_playerlist_page.htm

See y'all out there!

We've managed to pull together a bunch of disc golf rockers and they're going to let us provide the entertainement at the Saturday night player's party at the Beaver State Fling! Joining local musicians/disc golfers Sean Lynch, Steve Yang, Patrick Buckley and myself will be Brad Hammock, Jon Lyksett, Steve "Stimpi" Simmons, Jay Reading and others!

We'll start things up at the Viewpoint Lounge (very close to the course at McIver State Park) around 6 PM or so, while the fly mart and all-you-can-eat BBQ buffet are taking place. You'll get to hear a mix of acoustic solo acts and some kick-butt classic rock (songs everyone knows). It's going to be a party!

Hope to see you there!

Theo Pozzy
PDGA Commissioner (and part-time rocker)
Beaver State Fling Team

Hi All,

If you are a Pro player and want to sign up, PLEASE contact us before sending in your payment. Phone: 503.750.3348 By the time you read this, there may not be any spots left.

If you are an Am and want to sign up, please do so as soon as possible.

As of right now there are only 4 spots left for Pro players. Currently, we have 86 players on the list and only 90 spots available.
There are a handfull left for Advanced players. 62 on the list with 72 spots available.

There are still several spots available for Intermediate and Junior players. 45 on the list and 72 spots available.

You can check the player lists out here: http://beaverstatefling.orsdiscgolf.com (select player list link).

Can't wait to see you there!

Thanks!
T-Bell

If you're using the firefox browser, the player list woun't work well from the BSF web page. You can also access the most current player list from here: http://pdga.com/schedule/index.php select the yellow booklet icon next to the Fling links (there are two... one for pro and one for am). Sorry for any confusion.
tgb

Don't forget pre tournament doubles on Friday at the Dabney course. Run by yours truly, this is a pre-funk doubles that is not to be missed. If yer a Pro, come on out and see the course that the Ams will be talking about. If yer an Am, come on out and watch the Open Players beat up on Dabney. The doubles will be run in an A/B format, so no Open players get put together. Sure to be a good time, details on the Beaver State Fling Website. See you all there!

See the link for more information (about halfway down): http://beaverstatefling.orsdiscgolf.com/Information_page.htm

Yo!

The weather is beyooooooootiful in the great state of Oregon so far this week. I'm planning on playing the Pre-Funk Doubles in shorts and a t-shirt. If you're coming from out of town, pack the sunscreen!

Also, pack you mini's, because the mini golf course at Milo is gonna rock your socks off!

Also, pack extra socks, just in case yours get rocked off. Saftey first, people.

Mini-Golf! EXCELLENT!

How many holes?

Gawain Stern of SweetPlastic.com is setting up the mini course, and I am 95% sure that it's 18 holes of mini-ching baskets. Gawain is a skilled player (not as skilled as me and thee, but skilled nonetheless :D) and should set up a challenging course with the available terrain. The mini-extravaganza will be at Milo McIver State Park, not at Dabney.

I will be at Dabney, though, and I am almost as entertaining as mini-golf.

If you're going to be in town on Friday, COME OUT AND PLAY THE PRE-FUNK DOUBLES!! Las year was a blast and a half, and this year should be even better. Thanks to Cris Bellinger, the course is in terrific shape. Last year the winning team got over $100, and I'd like to top that this year. Heck, maybe you can pay for your trip by playing doubles!?!

This weekend will be the cat's pajamas, the bees knees, as well as the ant's pants. See you all there!

First round groups are posted at the Beaver State Fling Website. http://beaverstatefling.orsdiscgolf.com/pro_playerlist_page.htm

Check 'em out! Do it. Now. Go.


Why are you still reading this? Why haven't you gone to check out the first round groups yet??!?!!

You're really making me angry.

is that DARRY shultz guy as good as his brother Barry??? :eek:

Only time will tell. :D

is that DARRY shultz guy as good as his brother Barry??? :eek:



What about Brain Schweberger?

didn't read the whole list...just looked at first few holes....i'll be playing in the east coast supertour in virginia...
hope everyone there on the oregon coast has fun!!

is that DARRY shultz guy as good as his brother Barry??? :eek:



What about Brain Schweberger?



He can't throw as far as Darry, but he's a real smart player.

Wake up world, the Beaver State Fling weekend is finally here!

First round results! Kathy Manley tearing it up! Go NorCal! (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=4663)

Matt Kelly representing in Advanced! (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=5068)

First round scores are posted:

Pros (NT) (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=4663&amp;year=2005&amp;incl udeRatings=1)

Ams (NT) (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=5068&amp;year=2005&amp;incl udeRatings=1)

-Theo

Thanks, Theo!

It is always good to see the a 925 rated player winning the Int division.

It is always good to see the a 925 rated player winning the Int division.



Don't hate the playa hate the playa ratings. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

It is always good to see the a 925 rated player winning the Int division.



Don't hate the playa hate the playa ratings. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif


"Playa" would be CHEATING and now subject to disiplinary action by the PDGA for NOT playing within his ratings limit.

BUT the TD should have caught it :p

Actually it is ok as long as it is within a week of the ratings update right? :confused:

Actually it is ok as long as it is within a week of the ratings update right? :confused:



NOT

Well you aren allowed to but that is why they make the updates on sunday-tuesday so there isn't as much confusion. He probably sent in his entry early and the TD ran it befor the update and didn't notice when the guy checked in. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Well you aren allowed to but that is why they make the updates on sunday-tuesday so there isn't as much confusion. He probably sent in his entry early and the TD ran it befor the update and didn't notice when the guy checked in. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



It still is the players responsibility to play in the right division :p

The "Rules" say "Disiplinary Action" is in order. All points will be removed and possible suspension. /msgboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Look at the guys history...He's only played ADV., then all of the sudden he wants to play INT...Scared of the A tier comp...Bagger wants guaranteed plastic. What a wussy /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

What is wrong with the scores?How is that no one is under ,either the par is not right or everyone is playing poor.Numbers dont lie.I have never seen our best with scores like these.Did the PDGA do the math to see if the par is right for the course or just show up and look the other way?Theo? :oAnd what about the intermidate score after the first round the mistake should have been corrected and he should be moved up or DQd..THEO

What is wrong with the scores?How is that no one is under



The course has probably been set to very "challenging". Some TD's will make a course extra, extra long or add OB's & Mandos when an NT comes to town. It helps spike their course ratting, but it may not be a true representation of how the course plays on an average day. It can have mixed effects on an event over time. Some folks will want to go back and try it agian .... others will not. Fine line. I don't know about this one, but with only 1 player at par after 1, I would guess the course has been extended.

Some TD's will make a course extra, extra long or add OB's & Mandos when an NT comes to town.



Not Magilla though, Novato needs no "extending" :D

Based on the SSAs for the first two rounds of 57/58, the legit par on those layouts should probably be at least 60.

Then why do the scores represent a par 54?Measure twice cut once carpenters rule.Top pros should shoot between a -2 to a -5 look at golf scores...Follow success and success will follow.It looks like 6 par 4s or 5 par4s and one par 5....I love the courses in oregon they were big and challenging ...

Barry shot 54/1007 53/1022-- Last year :eek: /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif :cool:

Some TD's will make a course extra, extra long or add OB's & Mandos when an NT comes to town.



Not Magilla though, Novato needs no "extending" :D



:D;)

Ouch! Feldberg takes a 6 on the 4th hole of the final 9. That's gonna leave a mark. Things were tight there for the first three holes.

A 2 shot swing on the 7th gets Feldberg back to within two of Schultz.

Schultz holds off Feldberg in the end for a 1 shot victory.

Thanks for the live scoring!

Some TD's will make a course extra, extra long or add OB's & Mandos when an NT comes to town.



It could have been windy too? That pushes scores up.

Nice shooting Josh Anton. :D NorCal 2 top 4 in a row :D

It is always good to see the a 925 rated player winning the Int division.



Don't hate the playa hate the playa ratings. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif


"Playa" would be CHEATING and now subject to disiplinary action by the PDGA for NOT playing within his ratings limit.

BUT the TD should have caught it :p





That is just weak man.... Look at the mid to high 800's that played Advanced. They have more balls than this chump did. That's just poor and uncalled for judgement by his part.




<font color="red">CONGRATS!!! BARRY FOR ANOTHER NT WIN!! GO WISCONSIN!!</font>

It is always good to see the a 925 rated player winning the Int division.



Don't hate the playa hate the playa ratings. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif




"Playa" would be CHEATING and now subject to disiplinary action by the PDGA for NOT playing within his ratings limit.

BUT the TD should have caught it :p





That is just weak man.... Look at the mid to high 800's that played Advanced. They have more balls than this chump did. That's just poor and uncalled for judgement by his part.




<font color="red">CONGRATS!!! BARRY FOR ANOTHER NT WIN!! GO WISCONSIN!!</font>


No doubt that he is a p-wuss-y

Final Results are posted:
Pros (NT) (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=4663&year=2005&includeRatings=1)

Ams (NT) (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=5068&year=2005&includeRatings=1)


...is there really such a thing as a "National Tour" AM event? :( It says "Tier:A" on the Tournament pg.

That must be one tough course, for the whole fields to be "over par". :eek:

Wow, anyone see Dario Re get 9th??

Yeah pretty sweet.

What is wrong with the scores?How is that no one is under ,either the par is not right or everyone is playing poor.Numbers dont lie.I have never seen our best with scores like these.Did the PDGA do the math to see if the par is right for the course or just show up and look the other way?Theo? :oAnd what about the intermidate score after the first round the mistake should have been corrected and he should be moved up or DQd..THEO

As Chuck pointed out somewhere here, the PDGA DOES do the math, and the "PDGA's number" [SSA] would be around 60. Much more representative of what was actually scored. The posted par is the event Director's job Reese! :DMaybe PDGA Hq is not as Fascist as you might think! :o:cool:

I played this tourney this year and from what I heard from the players that were here this year, the course is a little different. The best thing I can tell you to give you a better idea of the course is go to the tourney website and look at the hole lengths. There were 1000 foot holes and a bunch of 500-700 foot holes. Look at the couse lengths just for McIver park to get a decent picture. Also a bit windy today (sunday) at time.

Hey Everyone!!
Well let me just tell you that this was one of the best tournaments i have played. I would like to extend my thanks to all the sponsors especially my boy jay from HUK LAB way to be bro!!!! Also the tournament staff and the TD for a really well run event. I would like to congratulate Barry Schultz on another fine victory and Feldberg on a very close second. Dont worry Dave you will get him!! HAHA. Also congrats to Dario Re 9th place way to be kid. And of course my boy Brad Hammock nice win bro!!!! In closing thank you everyone who participated and helped to make this event possible and i will definitely be back next year!!!!!

One more thing, I would like to thank my sponsor DISCRAFT!!!!!!!! thanks for all the great plastic!!!

Thanks,
Scott "Scooter" Slater #20695

The two courses at Milo McIver have plenty of holes that are Pro par 4's (and even a true and difficult par 5). This year, it wasn't a priority to assign par values to the course. Dealing with our first NT was enough of a challenge!

Congrats to the BSF team, all the players, volunteers, and everyone else that participated in this event! I think it met or exceeded most of our expectations.

-Theo

Theo the NT is our best why dont you try to do better.Lets take Gloden State we had long holes also, plus a par 5 we were able to figure out what the par is.You live up there what is the excuse, dont blame the TD, they have enough on his or her plate .You also have a support group if you could not figure it out ie Chuck and others.Our sport is trying to raise the bar ,use your bluetooth tech to your job ,not to check stock market. Theo your excuse is lame ,you were lazy :confused:

Theo the NT is our best why dont you try to do better.Lets take Gloden State we had long holes also, plus a par 5 we were able to figure out what the par is.You live up there what is the excuse, dont blame the TD, they have enough on his or her plate .You also have a support group if you could not figure it out ie Chuck and others.Our sport is trying to raise the bar ,use your bluetooth tech to your job ,not to check stock market. Theo your excuse is lame ,you were lazy :confused:



Reese...

What the He11 are you spewing now....

1st of all....How can you possibly include yourself in the "WE" when talking about the Golden State Classic..You sir continue to make your self look like a [I'm a potty-mouth!]. WE?? :confused:
Give me a break...I had more to do with that event than you did and I DID NOTHING :mad:
Unless you :Slitherd out on the course to put up a banner without permission again :p

As far as what the scores show. I see #'s not par. Who really cares WHAT PAR IS??? We all shoot a score, dont we.
At Stafford a 58 could be Par, But we like to call 54 Par. Just our preference.
Quit being a critic and continue to do YOUR STUFF, YOUR WAY.
Your continued ATTACKS are unwarrented and just make those that sometimes support you want to keep their distance. ;)

DUMB [I'm a potty-mouth!] :(

Then why show par at all? It means nothing so why waste bandwidth with a row for it? Why delude people with the inane repetitive par 3? Just delete all of the threads and discussion about it. Anyone think ball golf is considering dropping par as nonsense and just confusing players?

I think Reese meant 'we' the players...just a guess.

Maybe Beaver State will decide they like the idea of Rico, Schults and Feldberg shooting 'over par'. That might be their schtick. The great rounds will still be "four-digit"; I don't see a real problem, or even why it's a fuss.

Mike we being me, I payed my PDGA fee, and entered the event.Also I lazered the course to get the correct distance, because some were way off, 2 days before the event, and gave them to Mike to make the changes.I also donated over $180 in clothing ,and gave out over $200 in apparell to players that I respect in the game.Mike the coustomer is always right, and the pdga is paid to do a job, I expect better.So mike when you say you did as much as me ,think again :confused: As Chuck said would golf do away with par ?

Oh snap :o

Mike=Big Mike Williams, La Mirada Course Pro; mike=Magilla...right?

Is setting the score the PDGA's job? I'm still not sure on their perceived shortcoming @ Beaverstate. :confused: People didn't like their scores vs. par? Boy, if that's the biggest complaint, it must have been one crack event! :cool:

It was. :D

Congrats on qualifying for the USGDC! Have fun, play well!

I think that Reese's complaint was the biggest that i heard of, everything i heard from the playa's was good!! Well except what TUFF/FAIR course's :eek: :cool:including the AWSOME Mini 18 /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif :eek: :cool:

Way to go to all involved :D:D :D

This had nothing to do with the awsome courses or the TD.This is NT, and a simple tasks to complete, with the recourses that the pdgs has, at thier fingertips.And a pdga offical that lives in the area with course info.There is a big difference in a +6 and par.Theo has a lot of great assets that we will benefit from, but we cannot forget about the small details that make us look professional to the rest of the world.I only want better..... ;)

Reese,

Thank you for your feedback. Your style of communications will continue to present you with significant challenges in any business ventures you attempt.

(The following comment was my personal opinion, not an official PDGA or BSF statement).

-Theo

That's Reese for ya. Any opportunity to rag on the PDGA will not be passed.

Regardless of whether posted par or not, the rating #'s didn't suffer...only egos...[?] :eek: :o:D

I like the idea of lazering 'the' course! But I think that needs to be done months in advance, for a NT....likely to want guides with that info printed way ahead. ;)

There is a big difference in a +6 and par.



Not really. :confused: The number is 60. You can call it whatever you wish. Does your EGO need that much boosting??
Couldnt go much higher. :p

We all shoot for the best score. What does PAR really have to do with it. Heck the "ProPar" isnt posted anywhere. So why shouldnt we just report all scores relative to "Par if we were all 1000 rated players" Boy that makes sense, since the powers cant figure out how to even get that right. (How does a SSA change when a course is never moved, only the level of players that played the round) :confused:

A 58 is a 58 weather thats Par, +4 or -4, its still a 58.

I dont know of ANY SSA's that are -4 or +4 they ALL say ##.## :p

My comments to Reese were reaction to his incessive complaining about ANYTHING that isnt FLY18.
Try to keep on the good side of your FEW supporters

;)

Anyone think ball golf is considering dropping par as nonsense and just confusing players?



We are NOT Ball Golf...Never will be...

What?? Do you need to know PAR to get a "Good" rating, Chuck??

It shouldnt matter for ANYTHING but to STROKE your ego. Unless of course that SOMEHOW plays into the ratings "MESS" you call a "Formula" ;)
Dont forget to include, Which side of the Rockies, North or south of the Mason Dixon Line, etc.. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
:D

Mike lets call a birdie a toad,and par, a dog and and a bogie ,a crab ,now we have our own sport, but dont add the score that would be golf. You cant get awaw from your roots. Why did goldenstate NT have the correct par ,and up north it does not matter, think about the spectator who is following the scores and a 1,200 ft hole is a 3.I love the quote ,thats the way it has always been, so that makes it right.This is a dicussion board right ;)

Yes there is such a thing as an AM NT.
NOT TALKING 'BOUT OREGON!!, but...
Am NT's are where the Am's get shafted! (Memorial, DGLO)
We get to play inferior courses with little to no rules enforcement as the Marshall's are recovering from the previous night so they can walk w/ the Pro's. I'm not doing another NT until I'm Pro and am half-sure that I'm not going to just give my money to Barry (or whoever).

Yes there is such a thing as an AM NT.
NOT TALKING 'BOUT OREGON!!, but...
Am NT's are where the Am's get shafted! (Memorial, DGLO)
We get to play inferior courses with little to no rules enforcement as the Marshall's are recovering from the previous night so they can walk w/ the Pro's. I'm not doing another NT until I'm Pro and am half-sure that I'm not going to just give my money to Barry (or whoever).



UH!! Wrong..

There are NO AM NT's...Those are A Tier's :p

Mike lets call a birdie a toad,and par, a dog and and a bogie ,a crab ,now we have our own sport, but dont add the score that would be golf. You cant get awaw from your roots. Why did goldenstate NT have the correct par ,and up north it does not matter, think about the spectator who is following the scores and a 1,200 ft hole is a 3.I love the quote ,thats the way it has always been, so that makes it right.This is a dicussion board right ;)



Hey Reese...Last time I check WE ARE OUR OWN SPORT...
We would survive EVEN if Ball Golf went away. AND Fly18 :o

Probably BETTER
:D

I think it's a little of both.


First, attacking Reese as a person instead of the issue is not the right thing to do and you should know better.

His points unrelated to Fly

Magilla, you're right, it's a relative thing. If you shoot a + 12, but everyone else shot + 18 , then you did pretty good realtive to the field, and whatever "par" was for the day. But that means a lot more to the experienced player then to the beginner or the Sponsors.


Reese is also right,
If you take a novice out on a course that has mutliple 1,000 foot plus holes and tell them that "Par" (meaning what is expected of you) is 3's on every hole? That person is going to have a lot less fun than if you told them that "Pars" were 5's & 6's. You will probably turn a portion of those new players off to the game, and they won't play again, beacuse everyone likes to have their ego's stroked. :D

You will probably have the same effect on spectators and potentially sponsors who do not understand or care about the relative "par" thing. It is possible that their impression may be that disc golfers, even at the NT level, really aren't that skilled or worth watching or paying for ....

It depends on what your goal is? For the players who were there and understood, it doesn't matter as much. I doubt any of them will be happy to come home and say "I shot blah blah over par". But they can say "I shot better than So & So."

The problem is that John Q spectator and Suzy Sponor don't know or care who So & So are, or what that means, so your opportunity is to make a good impression is lost on them.

If your goal was to promote disc golf to new players and the public, you may have had a differnt effect. It depends on weather they focused on scores or throws. For every one who wasn't actually there, it was probably scores : )

For considerations of growth, it might be helpful if "Par" meant some thing smililar to everyone? Or at least to more than the just hard core players themselves, lest the only money they ever get is each others.

The PDGA does have a responsibilty, the Tour Official should review the course. We pay good money for consistency. The PDGA owes that to the players.

The customer is always right. The All of them, weather you agree with their politics or not. That is the premis that successful organizations run under. Period.

So rather than getting defensive, it could be considered as a possibilty for improvement next year? You could at least say: "we thought about it, and we like seeing the best players in the world over par"
And then we could all try and figure out who's ego that stroked. :confused: :o

Maybe a survey is in order?

If you take a novice out on a course that has mutliple 1,000 foot plus holes and tell them that "Par" (meaning what is expected of you) is 3's on every hole? That person is going to have a lot less fun than if you told them that "Pars" were 5's & 6's. You will probably turn a portion of those new players off to the game, and they won't play again, beacuse everyone likes to have their ego's stroked. :D


I think the course scorecards that casual folks use to play the course on an everyday basis list the pars as 3's, 4's, and 5's.



You will probably have the same effect on spectators and potentially sponsors who do not understand or care about the relative "par" thing. It is possible that their impression may be that disc golfers, even at the NT level, really aren't that skilled or worth watching or paying for ....



Any spectator who watched the final 9 this year will have no doubt as to the skill level of the players. As for the sponsors, I think their impression of the event will depend more on the customer support (i.e. sales) that their support generates from the local player base. All early indications point to a successfull event, and we should see repeat sponsors next year.



The PDGA does have a responsibilty, the Tour Official should review the course. We pay good money for consistency. The PDGA owes that to the players.



I think that the par thing is less of a consistency issue than a "presentation" issue. Did it matter to the players in the event? Not that I've heard. Did it matter to the people following the event on the net? Apparently :D.

I like what you said about not getting defensive. I think the attitude in which suggestions are presented is invariably the attitude in which they will be recieved and considered. Suggestions presented amicably (such as yours) will be received better than suggestions percieved as harsh criticism (such as Reese's). Oh blah di, oh blah dah, life goes on. :D

This is why I am not writing my book, that is not my purpose.I do have views of our sport in a higher place .And am doing my part to get there, in the park, or on a cart.I think of the outside looking in ?what do they see?we are being watched, it is up to us, to get our act together, and some want more.If i could write that well my message my be heard louder and further.That was well put JS ....It used to be all volenteer ,now we have a paid staff, lets get what we paid for.

Any spectator who watched the final 9 this year will have no doubt as to the skill level of the players.
...

Did it matter to the people following the event on the net? Apparently




Most of your audience was on the net...


I think that the par thing is less of a consistency issue than a "presentation" issue. Did it matter to the players in the event? Not that I've heard.



Consistency has everything to do with presentation ... hence the NT "standards"

You may not hear it directly, but I can assure it did matter to the players, it does matter to the players, it will be said.

How much does it matter? You'll know more next year.

The fact that this tournament has grown from a C tier to a B tier to an A Tier to an NT tells me quite a bit. The fact that par is the only complaint on the mess bored tells me even more. Thanks for the input, though. I mean that sincerely.

I think that all of the complaining that usually takes place on the internet is merely people expressing frustration that the sport they love so much had an event that didn't live up to its fullest potential. I think all of the compliments are merely expressions of gratitude that it got as close to that potential as it did.

With the help of the staff that we had this year, and the players that attended, I think next year will be even better. I know that suggestions meant in helpful spirit will be considered with due care to make the event even more successful in 06.

Cool.

Thanks Eric. I think you're right.


God luck in 06.

Please tell me that in a "AM NT" they at least offer advanced divisions ONLY.

With the help of the staff that we had this year, and the players that attended, I think next year will be even better. I know that suggestions meant in helpful spirit will be considered with due care to make the event even more successful in 06.

i know they have a fair density of COURSES up there, even not including So. Washington. How close is the Portland area to having the VOLUNTEERS to host a Worlds?

Hey John...
Whats Par on "I-5"?
;)
:D

I am referencing the crap that we get to play as an "A" tier that coincides with the Pro NT. I know it's "A".
I feel unless the TD can prove that the Am "A" is not going to be diminished in any way by trying to run along side the Pro's trying to run two coinciding tourneys just doesn't work. Someone will always suffer and the way it is now, the future of the sport is getting the shaft.
Just let the Pro's have their weekend. Run a little B or C for the Am's so that they can still watch the Pro's.
Enough drift, sorry.

Hey John...
Whats Par on "I-5"?
;)
:D



It is a par 3

There are NO AM NT's...Those are A Tier's :p

I didn't mean to insult anyone, but I didn't think so. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif ;)

I am referencing the crap that we get to play as an "A" tier that coincides with the Pro NT. I know it's "A".

By the time that most amateurs have enough experience to make that kind of judgment for themselves, they go pro. And then they start telling their amateur buddies what great events those crappy events are because they know where added cash comes from.

Ha! It's funny 'cause it's true! :D

Hey John...
Whats Par on "I-5"?
;)
:D



It is a par 3



:p Since you chimed in I'll pretend your John :)
What would you guess the Average score taken on the hole is?

Wow, anyone see Dario Re get 9th??

I played with him in the last round, he is a strong player, with a very solid puTT. Least amount of spin I have ever seen on a puTT.

Hey John...
Whats Par on "I-5"?
;)
:D



It is a par 3



:p Since you chimed in I'll pretend your John :)
What would you guess the Average score taken on the hole is?



I would say about 4.5

Least amount of spin I have ever seen on a puTT.



You haven't played with me lately Schweb.. :(
:D

Hey John...
Whats Par on "I-5"?
;)
:D



It is a par 3



:p Since you chimed in I'll pretend your John :)
What would you guess the Average score taken on the hole is?



I would say about 4.5



So WHY is it a Par 3? /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
:D

Same situation.......... ;)

Yeah, but some of us still play for the love of the game.

[/QUOTE]

I would say about 4.5

[/QUOTE]That sounds about right

The holes at McIver were measured using a wheel (so the curves around obstacles were taken into account). This was preferred over lasering due to the curved routes on various holes and the density of foliage in certain areas.

Milo's 27 holes were not significantly changed for this tourney (so come up and try the course!). 9 temporary holes were added with varying difficultly to make 2 courses. The AM divisions played 1 or 2 rounds at Dabney State Park (depending on the division).

Par was used on the courses to simplify score keeping. There are many legitimate par 4s and 5s on the course... if it were scored this way then score checking would have been a nightmare.

Par was used on the courses to simplify score keeping. There are many legitimate par 4s and 5s on the course... if it were scored this way then score checking would have been a nightmare.



I totally agree. Getting the scores right should be the highest priority.

And I had a fantastic time this year and can't wait to come back. McIver's courses are a couple of my favorite courses in the country. I'd rank them up there with Idlewild in KY, Warwick in NY in terms of difficulty.

Par was used on the courses to simplify score keeping. There are many legitimate par 4s and 5s on the course... if it were scored this way then score checking would have been a nightmare.


Sorry, but that is simply not true. Tournament scores are total strokes, period. You add the numbers up the exact same way regardless of par.

Many people seem to have a mental block about this. It's pretty funny, actually.

In any event, people who started on one of those par-5 holes at your event and were late to the round got a huge advantage over those being late to a real par-3 hole.

You add the numbers up the exact same way regardless of par.

Perhaps you mark the cards differently. We used '/' for par and the actual number for 1,2,4,5,6... etc. This way you can quickly scan the card and add/subtract strokes to get a total. Add this to 54 and you get the total strokes. If you had '3's everywhere then you'd need to add everything together which has the greater potential for mistakes. Finally, if the holes had different pars then the players would need to keep track of what par was on that particular hole (another potential scoring mishap).

BTW, there are certain PGA courses where the top pros shoot 'Even'.

I'm glad everyone enjoyed the tourney and thanks for the constructive criticism.

Tournament scores are total strokes, period.

Agreed. So why all the fuss over what par is or isn't?

Because players get brain lock when pars are not 3 on the scorecard, I don't recommend putting them on the scorecard anymore, even 3s. However, that doesn't mean you shouldn't identify par 4s and 5s in the player program (even in an appendix) for handling late player penalties. In addition, using a reasonably correct total par for the course in the online posting will also not cause any scorecard confusion.

Hey John...
Whats Par on "I-5"?

It is a par 3

Since you chimed in I'll pretend your John
What would you guess the Average score taken on the hole is?
I would say about 4.5




Different situation, But close :D

I was wondering when you would get around to hole 13 at Dayla?

It's a par three, at least for the locals :o And I have carded a 2 on it :D

It is also 1 out of 27 holes. Every course has a challenging 3 that some would call a 4. They also usually have a 3 that could be called a 2.

We were discussing an entire course, not one hole.

It is an excellent point though. To wit.

You have a 1,000+ hole at Novato. Has any one ever two'd it?

Maybe it should be the Mean score for par, not the average score.?

Which would place "U-5" :o (hole 13) at Par 3 (since I and others have 2'd it) And your 1000 footer at Par 4 asuuming no one has done that?

If you had '3's everywhere then you'd need to add everything together which has the greater potential for mistakes. Finally, if the holes had different pars then the players would need to keep track of what par was on that particular hole (another potential scoring mishap).



hmmmmmmmm

hmmmmmmmm

hmmmmmmmm

Math cluttering up an NT? Players keeping track of Par? Uhspeakable.

We're more organized than that. Maybe the tour official could help? carry an abacus, or one of those calculator doohickeys? :D

Perhaps you mark the cards differently.


We write the number of throws thrown for each hole, as a number.

I think it's funny how people just have mental breakdowns over this stuff. No matter what the actual par for the holes/course is, you can still use the "3s trick" when adding the scores.

Par was used on the courses to simplify score keeping. There are many legitimate par 4s and 5s on the course... if it were scored this way then score checking would have been a nightmare.


Sorry, but that is simply not true. Tournament scores are total strokes, period. You add the numbers up the exact same way regardless of par.

Many people seem to have a mental block about this. It's pretty funny, actually.

In any event, people who started on one of those par-5 holes at your event and were late to the round got a huge advantage over those being late to a real par-3 hole.



That all started with THE LAME +1, +2, -1, 0 system at DeLa :p

When people cant count it make things hard on the TD to CHECK and RECHECK for addition errors.

All developed with EVERYTHING as Par3
/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I am happy to see that this is, thus far, the biggest internet complaint about the event. In my mind, I think that indicates a success. :D

Perhaps you mark the cards differently.


We write the number of throws thrown for each hole, as a number.

I think it's funny how people just have mental breakdowns over this stuff. No matter what the actual par for the holes/course is, you can still use the "3s trick" when adding the scores.



NNNOOOooooo....Not the "3's trick" That would make far to much sense. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

You would not believe how many people I have tried to explain that one too, That just dont get it.. :confused:

Hey Eric,

Please don't take my posts as complaints about your event. :) I just couldn't let that statement about how hard the math is if it isn't all par-3 go. :D

NNNOOOooooo....Not the "3's trick" That would make far to much sense. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

You would not believe how many people I have tried to explain that one too, That just dont get it.. :confused:


It sounds like they do the "3s trick" up there, only they write a slash instead of a 3.

Personally, I hate it when people say "par" when I have the scorecard, because a lot of disc golfers mumble and I went to a lot of rock concerts in my youth, and it sounds a lot like "four".

Scoring everything par 3 is easy. You make a slash for all the pars and WRITE in all the other numbers. That way all you have to count is the over strokes and then you subract the 2s. Its pretty easy to just score everything as a 3 but if your playing in or TDing a disc golf even you should be able to ADD. Its really not that hard a concept. Its called ELEMENTARY MATH folks. I hope all of you can do that kind of addition :D

I heard the Beaver State was an AMAZING event from more then one person and I regret that I couldnt make it out there this year but I will try my best to make it next year. Congrats to everyone who shot well and Congrats to my boy Slater for Cashing at his first NT and qualifying for USDGC :D

I don't get it :o

Eric, you're right. It's no big deal. The event was a great sucess. We just like kicking around idea's on where stuff came from and where it goes from here.

With things growing so quickly, everyone has a lot of idea's.

And Magilla, is right again, we have had more than our share of scoring issues at Dayla tourneys. Not huge, but a little confusion. We fianlly got in line with the rest of NorCaland that has helped.

The goal is to make things as good and as understandable as possible for everyone so tour players no what to expect.

It's much harder in a large event because people have their own way of doing things in different parts of the country. Like some of my groups at the Masters thought it was weird to circle 2's.

That's why the board is great. people form all over can share idea's in one place.

The hard part is that board posting can be misunderstood, so hopefully no one takes anything to persoanlly, as golfers do like to tease each other a bit. :D

I am happy to see that this is, thus far, the biggest internet complaint about the event. In my mind, I think that indicates a success. :D



OK Erik, JUST FOR YOU.....

YOU GUYS "LICK" :o

You had to have the event soooo close to my KOA event that it was IMPOSSIBLE for me to attend :p

What the heck were you thinking...coordinate a little better next time :mad:
;)
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Pros can learn the "everything is par 4" adding trick when they play the par 68 Nockamixon at Worlds this year. That will be fun...

D'oh! Should've scheduled better! :o

Hey, if you think scheduling an NT is hard, try scheduling your wedding when 90% of the attendees are disc golfers. Late September, anyone?
:D
Erik

Scoring everything par 3 is easy. You make a slash for all the pars and WRITE in all the other numbers.


Ummmm.....except that instead of writing a "slash", you just write a three. Then, when you are adding up the scores, you do the same thing you were doing, but instead of doing nothing for a slash, you do nothing for a three.

Pretty easy.

Hey, if you think scheduling an NT is hard, try scheduling your wedding when 90% of the attendees are disc golfers. Late September, anyone?
:D
Erik


Congrats. :)

Gracias. :D
Now for the important info: She's a 790 rated Adv. Woman. She's won more trophies than I have, and she suggested a blown glass basket as the cake topper. She's also been bugging me about getting the artwork for our wedding mini's finalized before it gets too late.

Yes, I am very lucky, thanks!

Ummmm.....except that instead of writing a "slash", you just write a three. Then, when you are adding up the scores, you do the same thing you were doing, but instead of doing nothing for a slash, you do nothing for a three.

Pretty easy.



Slashes look like slashes no matter what. Ive seen 3s that look like 6s and 8s and many other things. Also its easy to see the birdies and bogies when they are the only numbers on the card. Much easier to ignore a slash then it is a 3.


Which lookes easier

<font size=5>2 2 2 2 2 - - - 4 4 2 2 2 - 2 - 4 -</font>


<font size=5>2 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 4 4 2 2 2 3 2 3 4 3</font>

Which one is easier to score. Which one takes less time. The first one is WAY quicker to score then the second on. Your eyes automatically just skip the slashes and go straight to the numbers.

-1 -1 -1 -1 -1 - - - 1 1 -1 -1 -1 - -1 - 1 - even easier if you're going to the effort to do slashes. It helps when those numbers are written in scorecard boxes though.

Thats just more confusing. skipping the slashes and counting the over strokes then subracting the # of 2s is alot easier then going -1 1 -1 1 and all that crap. Trust me I have tried both way and the way I use it alot less confusing.

Write the score as a number for all holes. Don't let anyone say "par" when reporting their score. It's easy to ignore threes. The comment about 3 looking like other numbers is a bunch of crap. Any number written sloppily is hard to read, and 2s and 4s have more problems than 3s any day!

Easy as pie to ignore 3s. Plus, when you play a real course the par is not 54 and your cardmates are having mental breakdowns, they can just add up all the numbers that are there and do it slowly. You can still use the "3s trick" even if the par if 72, because you know how to do it. The only way to use the "dash trick" is to make par wrong because you are using dashes to mean "par". And a 3 on The Monster is not "par". :)

Now for the important info: She's a 790 rated Adv. Woman. She's won more trophies than I have, and she suggested a blown glass basket as the cake topper. She's also been bugging me about getting the artwork for our wedding mini's finalized before it gets too late.

Yes, I am very lucky, thanks!


Dang, no wonder you are marrying her! The glass basket as a cake topper is awesome. Get some quality photos of that, okay? I might have to get a poster sized print of that. :)

3+3 is 6+4 is 10+3 is 13+3 is 16+4 is 20+3 is 23+3 is 26+2 is 28+3 is 31+5 is 36+3 is 39+4 is 43+3 is 46+3 is 49+2 is 51+4 is 55+3 is 58.

Now, which of those 3's were pars, which were birdies? Was the 5 a double bogey or a par? Were the 4's pars, bogeys or birdies? Were the 2's birdies or eagles?

Who cares? It's the total throws that count. You got 58. If no one got 57 or less, you won.

Seems to me that "slash", "par", "+" or "-" are not scores and therefore cannot be used for scoring:

******************************
804.03 SCORING

B. After each hole is completed, the scorekeeper shall call out each player's name. The called player shall answer with the score in a manner that is clear to all players of the group and the scorekeeper. The scorekeeper shall record that score and read it back, in a manner that is clear to all players of the group.
*********************************

A score is a number. Anything else entered on the scorecard would be in violation of the above rule.

--Mike

A score is a number. Anything else entered on the scorecard would be in violation of the above rule.

--Mike



If the TD says that a slash is equivalent to a 3, then a slash is as valid a score as the 3.

The confusion would come, using the "slash" system with real par values, if some players treated the slash as a 3 and others treated it as "par". Even if you announced it carefully at the player's meeting and put it in the program and on the cards, there would undoubtedly be errors. If you are going to show real pars on the tee signs and/or programs, then you really have to stick with the actual scores on the scorecards, not +/- or "slash" variations.

-Theo

So just to clarify the scoring thing. It's not that the math is hard at all, it's just that it's a little easier and faster to double check scores on a card where all "3"s are marked as "/". With an event of this size with as many players as we had, time is of the essence. When the cards start coming in, the volunteers need to be able to get through them quickly and get the boards set for the next round quickly (you know the players want to see where they are about 2 minutes after they turn in their cards! ;)). The decission to use the "/" method was with this in mind.

Hey there from sunny Malaysia!

I just want to put out a quick note to everyone to say thanks! Thanks for everyone that showed up to play and have some fun... I had a great time and hope you all did too! Thanks to all our volunteers... from the Portland Rocs, Cris, and other people that put in time on the courses, to the core team for all the energy and time you put in. We really appreciate all the efforts and it played a huge part in how well the event went. Thanks to all our sponsors for their support too... huk lab, Next Adventure, Full Sail, Innova, DGA, the Willamette Disc Golf Club, the PDGA, DisConcepts... the list goes on (check out our sponsor page at http://beaverstatefling.orsdiscgolf.com/sponsors_page.htm )Thanks for the weather being just right too!

Thanks for everything!
tgb

Ummmm.....except that instead of writing a "slash", you just write a three. Then, when you are adding up the scores, you do the same thing you were doing, but instead of doing nothing for a slash, you do nothing for a three.

Pretty easy.



Slashes look like slashes no matter what. Ive seen 3s that look like 6s and 8s and many other things. Also its easy to see the birdies and bogies when they are the only numbers on the card. Much easier to ignore a slash then it is a 3.


Which lookes easier

<font size=5>2 2 2 2 2 - - - 4 4 2 2 2 - 2 - 4 -</font>


<font size=5>2 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 4 4 2 2 2 3 2 3 4 3</font>

Which one is easier to score. Which one takes less time. The first one is WAY quicker to score then the second on. Your eyes automatically just skip the slashes and go straight to the numbers.



It would be even easier if you would CIRCLE THOSE 2's :D

It would be even easier if you would CIRCLE THOSE 2's



OH BOY!!! Here we go again

The last half dozen posts illustrate the problem well. Some people are using 2,3,4. Some are using -, /, +. Some are using 2, -, 4.

So what happens if the first guy is using the "-" = 2 system and the second guy is using the "-" = 3 system? FUBAR!

When i'm checking cards, if I get a card with anything other than arabic numbers on it, I give it back and ask for arabic numbers.

Ive NEVER in my life seen or heard of ANYONE marking a - or a / for a 2 or a 4. So I have no Idea what bruce is talking about.