We're trying to put together some demographic information for a couple of our sustaining sponsors. If you can spare a minute, please take the time to fill out this 12 question survey.

You may respond to the survey by clicking the following URL: http://www.AdvancedSurvey.com

When you arrive at the Advanced Survey homepage, type in survey number 22200 in the "Take A Survey" box.

Thank you very much for taking the time to answer these questions.

-Dan

Just did the survey, hope you get some good feedback.
I did a Disc Golf Economic Impact study on a new B-Tier tournament in isolated Tyler, TX just this fall. I had 55 out of 71 players participate and the results are pretty darn exciting. I know of a few people who have already used this as fuel for getting sponsorship and new courses approved.
I am sending it to Dan. If anyone else thinks it would be of help for your cause, send me a PM and I'll send it to you as well.

Thanks Yeti. I enabled the survey results so you can check them out after you take the survey.

I'll send the results to anyone that wants them.

Thanks for participating!

-Dan

I am all in :D

Good way to put up a survey. Maybe the PDGA should go ahead and do our surveys that way :D

Good way to put up a survey. Maybe the PDGA should go ahead and do our surveys that way :D



What do you care? You HATE the PDGA anyway. All we are is a bunch of old guys that sit around and make rules and shove them down your throat. What difference would a survey make? We are going to do what we darn well please, especially if it inconveniences YOU. In fact, it's in our secret rules for decision making. Rule 47, See what might really pi** off Steve Mills, 'cause if it does, then it's good for the rest of disc golf. Followed by Rule 48, Let's pi** off all the touring pros, TD's, women, juniors, intermediates, league directors, manufacturers, and while we are at it, throw in the rest of the membership. After all, they DID elect us to stampede over them.

Look, Millz...The PDGA has done surveys, quite extensive ones, at that. They give us all sorts of information that we use to help make decisions. Just because the members that are responsible enough to respond are those that are a bit more mature, doesn't mean that the surveys are invalid. So what if you lost yours or it got hijacked? There weren't a lot of responses from members your age anyway, which tells me that your demographic just doesn't care.

BTW, that online survey tool is nice, and all, but it allows someone to take the survey over and over, thereby skewing the results. It also does not take into account those members that do not have internet access or cannot be contacted by email. That is why we send out a hard copy of surveys in the membership packet. It is the one time of the year that we communicate in an equal way with all of the members. If they choose to respond, great. If not, that is their loss.

I'm realistic enough to know that not every decision the Board makes is going to please every member. But we DO think about these things, we DO talk to people, we DO look at survey results, we DO have the welfare of the organization in mind, really, we do. All I ever see out of you is reactionary, selfish ranting. How about bringing something positive to the table? With all the time you spend (on your employer's dime) whining and raving about the injustices done to you by the PDGA, you certainly could come up with some positive suggestions, and communicate them to the Board members.

See you in Scottsdale. If you can find your way outa the bar and away from the poker table, that is. I'm anxious to see if you have the cojones to actually talk to the Board face to face the way you talk to and about us on here.

My views, only. Not speaking for the Board.

Well said! :cool:

You know, the old guy has a point.

Well said Jon! :D:D:D:DJust finished taking the survey. :p

i got your back, pimp /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

maybe we can form a picket line outside the Summit to protest a few recent BOD decisions?

Good way to put up a survey. Maybe the PDGA should go ahead and do our surveys that way :D



What do you care? You HATE the PDGA anyway. All we are is a bunch of old guys that sit around and make rules and shove them down your throat. What difference would a survey make? We are going to do what we darn well please, especially if it inconveniences YOU. In fact, it's in our secret rules for decision making. Rule 47, See what might really pi** off Steve Mills, 'cause if it does, then it's good for the rest of disc golf. Followed by Rule 48, Let's pi** off all the touring pros, TD's, women, juniors, intermediates, league directors, manufacturers, and while we are at it, throw in the rest of the membership. After all, they DID elect us to stampede over them.





I was going to renew and cast votes but why should I when a person goes on a public forum and does not act professional. Why should I vote or care about people who act like this? I am sure you are a better person than this garbage you are spewing to Mills even if he gets under your skin YOU are representing the PDGA. I am glad I don't vote if this is what I can look forward to getting from you people on the board.

I was going to renew and cast votes but why should I when a person goes on a public forum and does not act professional. Why should I vote or care about people who act like this? I am sure you are a better person than this garbage you are spewing to Mills even if he gets under your skin YOU are representing the PDGA. I am glad I don't vote if this is what I can look forward to getting from you people on the board.



Waaaaa Waaaaaa.

I personally would much rather vote for a group of people that interact with the membership as humans with a little authenticity rather than boring political correctness that you might mistake as professionalism.

These guys volunteer tons of time and energy and it is refreshing to see a little frustration worded in a clearly sarcastic tone. I'm not sure if you missed the rest of Jon's post where he took a lot of time interacting with Mills. What other organization that's the size of the PDGA do you see BOD folks interacting publicly with disgruntled members?

Personally, I love it and find it refreshing! Thanks Jon.

Do you really expect BOD members not to respond to continual abuse from members who won't take the time to submit their opinions direct but would rather rip the ORG on this board?

Up to a point, yes. But they are human, and volunteers. They can only take so much. I think Jon's post expresses the frustration of not just dealing with Mills, but several people who have done the same thing year after year.

What do you care? You HATE the PDGA anyway. All we are is a bunch of old guys that sit around and make rules and shove them down your throat. What difference would a survey make? We are going to do what we darn well please, especially if it inconveniences YOU. In fact, it's in our secret rules for decision making. Rule 47, See what might really pi** off Steve Mills, 'cause if it does, then it's good for the rest of disc golf. Followed by Rule 48, Let's pi** off all the touring pros, TD's, women, juniors, intermediates, league directors, manufacturers, and while we are at it, throw in the rest of the membership. After all, they DID elect us to stampede over them.

Look, Millz...The PDGA has done surveys, quite extensive ones, at that. They give us all sorts of information that we use to help make decisions. Just because the members that are responsible enough to respond are those that are a bit more mature, doesn't mean that the surveys are invalid. So what if you lost yours or it got hijacked? There weren't a lot of responses from members your age anyway, which tells me that your demographic just doesn't care.

BTW, that online survey tool is nice, and all, but it allows someone to take the survey over and over, thereby skewing the results. It also does not take into account those members that do not have internet access or cannot be contacted by email. That is why we send out a hard copy of surveys in the membership packet. It is the one time of the year that we communicate in an equal way with all of the members. If they choose to respond, great. If not, that is their loss.

I'm realistic enough to know that not every decision the Board makes is going to please every member. But we DO think about these things, we DO talk to people, we DO look at survey results, we DO have the welfare of the organization in mind, really, we do. All I ever see out of you is reactionary, selfish ranting. How about bringing something positive to the table? With all the time you spend (on your employer's dime) whining and raving about the injustices done to you by the PDGA, you certainly could come up with some positive suggestions, and communicate them to the Board members.

See you in Scottsdale. If you can find your way outa the bar and away from the poker table, that is. I'm anxious to see if you have the cojones to actually talk to the Board face to face the way you talk to and about us on here.




This right here is perfect. We have BOD member lashing out and being complete jerks to the members who have every right to say and express how they feel about the organization they PAY to be a part of. First off when i said you guys were out to get me i was being sarcastic so you can take that comment right out. Second you are addmitting that the people who elect the board and the people who are on the board are OLDER. Lets not say more mature because we know maturity doesnt come with AGE. Third if you read why i have to say you will see that i do suggest other way to do things. Make the survey and Ballots online. You can set up surveys and ballots that you can only vote once. Hell you can even do it right here on THIS board, so its not very hard to do. Give something back to the members who fill out the survey. IE a disc a mini, 5 dollar credit to something at PDGA.COM. That way they will go and spend money at PDGA.COM which will go right back into supporting the PDGA which is what we all want anyway right??? Fourth i dont like the comments about getting pulled away from the bar and poker table either. Are you saying im an alcoholic or a gambling addict??? That whole post was a real ethical thing for a BOD member to do. I mean seriously now if your going to volunteer for a position on the BOD your going to have to deal with people complaining and ******** about EVERYTHING you do so you should have the self control to just take it all in and not lash out and make accusations and sarcastic comments that just do not need to be made. I mean i guess its ok though since at the bottom it says that your just talking for yourself and not the BOD. Oh wait it doesnt matter if you say that because anything you do or say reflects on the BOD. Man they must be proud that you can lash out and talk trash to a PAYING MEMBER of the organization that they run. Thats really proffesional. Im real glad your one of the people who runs the organization that i PAY to be a member of. Lastly you were right. Why should i vote or make my voice known when you already said that they people who elect you guys and make decision on this stuff are all OLDER guys that dont have near the same views as i do so unless i can get ALL my age group to start voting and sending the surveys back what i vote for and what i say inthe survey really isnt going to matter that much now is it???

By the way could you get me the data on what the Average age of a PDGA member is and what the average age of the BOD members are and what the average age is for people who voted and returned their surveys, because i would really like to know that information. Thanks and i will be seeing you out in AZ.

wow jon

as a BOD i don't think you should have expressed yourself that way

but it's nice to you you guys are human :D

I thought Jon made some good points and addressed some of your key whinings, millz, after he blew up at you. You should read the whole thing again. The Agitated BOD Member has obviously read all of your posts.

Wow it looks like im not the only one who didnt feel like that was proffesional.

I love how all these people say VOLUNTEER like it gives the person who VOLUNTEERED an excuse to do a crappy job or be unproffesional. Thats the biggest COP OUT i have ever heard. Its ok for him to be unproffesional and do a crappy job because he VOLUNTEERED. Thats freakin hillarious and a joke in itself. Maybe thats why the PDGA is run how it is because its a bunch of VOLUNTEERS who dont put 100% effort forward because they get nothing in return. Im sorry but i dont care if you get paid or you volunteer you should still put 100% into it. I mean would you be ok with a VOLNUTEER figherfighter just putting out half the fire on your house then driving away or showing up and being like oh that fires not that bad i have better things to do and drive off. I mean from what you guys are saying that would be perfectly fine because hes only VOLUNTEERING so he should have to do a great job or anything. LMFAO

I cant wait to sit in on one of these meetings and see what really goes on and then voice my opinion if i feel it neccesary.

Note that Jon signed off on that note as a personal opinion, not as a BOD member.

pimp

instead of running your mouth off and bashing the BOD'S why don't you run for some kind of office or position on the BOD or be the state cord. for MI. so you can change everything since you have all the answer's or would that cut into your time posting crap all over the discussion board

Note that Jon signed off on that note as a personal opinion, not as a BOD member.



Does that make it ok for a BOD member to act the way he did. Im on the BOD that governs this whole organization but im going to come on the board and act unproffestional but its ok cuz ill say it my opinion and everything will be fine. NO. No matter what you do your representing the PDGA BOD. I dont care if its your own opinion or not. If your on the BOD you should have enough proffessionalism to keep your own opinions to yourself or atleast express them in an email or PM as you have requested I do. Looks like your just as bad as I am there Jon. Real good way to change my mind about our BOD. I think you just bumped the board up a couple notches on the coolness scale. Oh wait no you just ****** me off even more and reinforced exactly what i thought in the first place.

Keep up the good work. Your doing a FINE job running and representing our organization.

For some reason it is completely acceptable for non-BOD members to be totally unprofessional when bashing the PDGA and the BOD members. However, when they recieve a like response from a BOD member, who states that they are expressing personal opinions and not BOD policies, and are using a personal message board account, that there is some sort of problem.

Can you spell hypocrisy? Probably not.

Damned if you do and damned it you don't I suppose.

pimp

instead of running your mouth off and bashing the BOD'S why don't you run for some kind of office or position on the BOD or be the state cord. for MI. so you can change everything since you have all the answer's or would that cut into your time posting crap all over the discussion board



You know why i dont run for office. First off because i know i dont have the time for it which would in turn not let me put 100% concetration on it like i would want to. Second off i wont get elected anyway because no one in my age bracket votes on this stuff anyway. Third because i work 50 hours a week Mon-Fri then on the weekends im spending my time trying to improve my game and travel across the country to tournaments and figure out a way to start up my own businaess. It all comes back to me not having time which is not fair to the people who elect me to be their REP. I dont want to do a half [*****] job because i dont have the time and then just cop out by saying sorry guys but what can you expect im only a VOLUNTEER. Thats what i hate about this organization and even though i think i could do a GREAT job if given the time and oppurtunity to do so i want to help correct the problem not get sucked into it.

Note that Jon signed off on that note as a personal opinion, not as a BOD member.



I don't have a dog in this fight, and have no desire to take either side. However, I don't think that declaring a rant to be one's personal opinion makes any bit of difference. If a politician, corporate CEO or board member, clergyman, school superintendent or principal, etc. makes says something obnoxious or politically incorrect in public, calling it their personal opinion won't keep them from taking heat for it from the organization they represent.

I was with you on the survey, until you asked my income. I know you're trying to get demographics to sponsors, but with no option to skip the question, that one caused me to quit the survey.

Why did it cause you to skip the survey. Its not like you put your name and phone number in the survey or anything that would even state who you are. Plus how much money you make has no bearing on anything at all. I dont really make crap but i filled out that part of the survey.

You know why i dont run for office. First off because i know i dont have the time for it which would in turn not let me put 100% concetration on it like i would want to. Second off i wont get elected anyway because no one in my age bracket votes on this stuff anyway. Third because i work 50 hours a week Mon-Fri then on the weekends im spending my time trying to improve my game and travel across the country to tournaments and figure out a way to start up my own businaess. It all comes back to me not having time which is not fair to the people who elect me to be their REP. I dont want to do a half [*****] job because i dont have the time and then just cop out by saying sorry guys but what can you expect im only a VOLUNTEER. Thats what i hate about this organization and even though i think i could do a GREAT job if given the time and oppurtunity to do so i want to help correct the problem not get sucked into it.



that sounds like 95% of the people on the BOD'S story steve
and yet they find time to volunteer thier time, and what do they get for it. they get to listen to people like you who give them a bunch of crap,is it thier fault that only 10% at best return questioneers and surveys.it sounds like you should be mad at the 90% for letting you down.the BOD is a thankless job in my opinion

idahojon's response was a well thought out, clear representation of his views. The fact that the retort was just a bunch of personal attacks with perhaps a sentence or two placed randomly that barely touched on the issues brought up shows that all the moron wants is to complain for the sake of complaining and seeing his posts up on a screen. Even the comment about drinking, while scathing (and funny) has a basis in fact. How many times have we heard the excuse about why he didn't throw is message board D at Worlds? Nothing idahojon said was out of the blue, undeserved or unprofessional.

hold up there, this thread was just a simple request for some folks to fill out a survey. i've also been taking results at a couple of local courses and am happy to share those results with whomever would like to see them.

i think disc golfers are some of the most passionate people i've ever met. thank god, our parks need the love.

peace.
-dan

oh, and thanks for all the responses like the ability to skip out of a question, allowing you to only take it once, and some of the others i've received. they really do help a lot.

dan
pimp is good at turning a thread into a 'all about me thread" real easy

i took your survey and thought a lot of the question were irrelevent to golf just my opinion
TFO

Don't worry about Jon. With his recent outbursts against millz and Reese, I get the feeling he's about "BODed out". Prolly won't be seeing him run for re-election, eh?

That'll open up a spot for a "!00%-er" to fill. Oh, wait. Except for whoever Mikey runs against, BOD positions are almost always unopposed elections.

Must be a great job to have with so many willing candidates lining up for it.

that sounds like 95% of the people on the BOD'S story steve
and yet they find time to volunteer thier time, and what do they get for it. they get to listen to people like you who give them a bunch of crap,is it thier fault that only 10% at best return questioneers and surveys.it sounds like you should be mad at the 90% for letting you down.the BOD is a thankless job in my opinion



Exactly my point. They are in the same position I am and they CHOOSE to volunteer their time. That right there is the first mistake that is being made. People that dont have enough time to put 100% focus and effort into their position are not doing the job the way it should be done simply because they DONT HAVE TIME. The oh they are just Volunteers excuse is just rediculous. If your going to vonlunteer be ready to do your job 100%. People that our vonlunteering for these positions shouldnt be people with full time jobs and families to take care of becaue not matter how well they think they are doing the job they arent doing it as well as they could if they had TIME.

Exactly my point. They are in the same position I am and they CHOOSE to volunteer their time. That right there is the first mistake that is being made. People that dont have enough time to put 100% focus and effort into their position are not doing the job the way it should be done simply because they DONT HAVE TIME.


Whatever. If we only had people who had the time we wouldn't have an organization.

Dear PDGA BOD, thank you for all that you do for me. Please ignore that cry-baby millz. He has no idea about the real world. Please be assured that I, and many many others, really appreciate the work you put into disc golf.

Rhett

dan
pimp is good at turning a thread into a 'all about me thread" real easy

i took your survey and thought a lot of the question were irrelevent to golf just my opinion
TFO



Actually i voice my opinion or make one comment about something then YOU GUYS turn it into a lets attack pimp because he has an OPINION thread and i have to respond to all the attacks and defend myself. I think you guys all need to take a chill pill. EVERYONE is allowed to have an opinion, just because i make mine known doesnt me that im an [*****]HOLE of that you guys can now come on a bash me. Im not bashing anything. Im stating that I am upset with the way things are being done and if it wasnt for all the great tournaments and the Ratings and DGWN i wouldnt be a member of this organization. The simple fact right now is that the PDGA is a monopoly and if you want to play a serious amount of good tournament golf you HAVE to be a member. There really is no other choice.

great feedback. the questions in the survey are from a sponsors perspective. for instance, knowing that disc golfers like dinning makes it easier to solicit restaurants, or that they shop online, etc.

keep the feedback coming, thanks again!

peace.
-Dan

I mean would you be ok with a VOLNUTEER figherfighter just putting out half the fire on your house then driving away or showing up and being like oh that fires not that bad i have better things to do and drive off. I mean from what you guys are saying that would be perfectly fine because hes only VOLUNTEERING so he should have to do a great job or anything. LMFAO

I cant wait to sit in on one of these meetings and see what really goes on and then voice my opinion if i feel it neccesary.

I think it would be more like the volunteer fireman putting out the fire on your house and you moaning 'cause he got your stuff all wet.

People that our vonlunteering for these positions shouldnt be people with full time jobs and families to take care of becaue not matter how well they think they are doing the job they arent doing it as well as they could if they had TIME.




I agree with that statement.

I will point out though that most of these guys are running unopposed. They step up maybe because no one else will.

Should they step completely aside and see what happens even if the result is no BOD at all?

Should we figure a way to pay these BOD positions a small salary to induce more candidates and more effort by those holding the position?

Whatever. If we only had people who had the time we wouldn't have an organization.



So your saying that because people who dont have time our running our organization dont have time then i should give them a break. Thats just like the late fee thing. Should you wave late fees because someone is broke and didnt have the money in time. NO if you dont have the money you shouldnt be playing anyway. Same here. If you dont have the time to do the job then dont volunteer for it. Whats so wrong with what i am saying???

I guess i just think that if im going to do something im going to do it ALL OUT 100% because its not worth doing something any other way. There are lots of things i wish i could do for the PDGA but im not going to because i dont beleive in doing things HALF [*****]ED because that just causes more of a problem then not doing anything at all.

Pimp,
Would you pay a $150-200 PDGA fee in order to have a paid staff? You'd probably need to double that to have a paid BOD also.

If you don't want volunteers then we all have to pay.

I took the survey and am surprised at some of the early demographic results. Cool, though.

I think it would be more like the volunteer fireman putting out the fire on your house and you moaning 'cause he got your stuff all wet.



Actually its nothing like that because any time people make any comments about how someone isnt doing a good job people always pop back with well come on give him a break hes ONLY A VOLUNTEER!!!! Like thats a good excuse for not doing a good job. That no excuse at all. Just because you VOLUNTEER doesnt give you the right to not do a good job. Maybe its more like the firefighter showing up and spraying the neighbors house when your is on fire and the city saying come on you cant be mad hes ONLY A VOLUNTEER!!!!!!!

I will point out though that most of these guys are running unopposed. They step up maybe because no one else will. <font color="red"> This is very true and very sad at the same time. </font>

Should they step completely aside and see what happens even if the result is no BOD at all? <font color="red"> No BOD may be better then a have [*****]ED BOD </font>

Should we figure a way to pay these BOD positions a small salary to induce more candidates and more effort by those holding the position? <font color="red"> Yes we should and if this was the case im sure alot more people would run and be willing to put forth some REAL time and effort to get the job done. Hell if i could make enough money to keep me healthy alive and on the road all summer then i would consider running </font>

Or maybe it's like some guy volunteering to protect YOUR country... following the orders of YOUR president... getting himself killed far away from home.

Then some dude who enjoys the freedom he defended uses that freedom to talk about what a dumb ***** guy he was for not doing a better job.

>Should they step completely aside and see what happens >even if the result is no BOD at all? No BOD may be better >then a have [*****]ED BOD

Here's the problem with your logic.
There is no way that having no BOD would be better than having the people that are currently volunteering their time. The entire sport would completely regress.

Its really nothing like that because when you CHOOSE to go into the army and whatever and defend OUR country then you get PAID to do so. So they really arent volunteering at all they are applying for a job and then getting paid to listen to their boss.

In no way am i downgrading our armed forces. Alot of my friend defend this country and our in Iraq and Afgahnistan right now and i have the highest amount of respect for them that i could have for anyone. They fight and die so that i can sit here on the computer and say what i want and do what i want.

My hear goes out to all those people overseas and i thank them from the bottom of my heart.

Now back to my regularly scheduled debating :D

Here's the problem with your logic.
There is no way that having no BOD would be better than having the people that are currently volunteering their time. The entire sport would completely regress.



What do you think the sport is doing right now???

The reason its becoming more and more popular is because more and more people are playing it and people are bringing new people into the sport. Its not growing and getting new players because the PDGA just said Pros could play AM. Actually i think it may lose players and members because of this.

There is already a paid staff with what the members currently pay.

I hardly think that double is needed. The positions should pay SOMETHING. Lets say the members dues were raised $10....that is over $80,000 dollars that could go to paying all the BOD members a small salary.Even half that would be reason enough to have more poeple step up. That's better then a kick in the teeth if you ask me.

Dear PDGA BOD, thank you for all that you do for me. Please ignore that cry-baby millz. He has no idea about the real world. Please be assured that I, and many many others, really appreciate the work you put into disc golf.

Rhett



me too PDGA thank you for all you do.

The reason its becoming more and more popular is because more and more people are playing it and people are bringing new people into the sport.

More and more people wouldn't be playing or bringing new people in without the 25+ years of orginization effort that have been put in to make this a more attractive sport.

Rules
Course directories
Disc golf publication
membership
stat tracking
handing out money to put in new courses

There is already a paid staff with what the members currently pay.

I hardly think that double is needed. The positions should pay SOMETHING. Lets say the members dues were raised $10....that is over $80,000 dollars that could go to paying all the BOD members a small salary.Even half that would be reason enough to have more poeple step up. That's better then a kick in the teeth if you ask me.



Why not raise them by 40 dollars. I mean for what we get 40 bucks is super cheap for an Amateur and 70 is cheap for a Pro. I wouldnt mind paying 80 next year and 110 the year after that when i turn pro because we do get ratings and DGWN and A Tiers and NTs that only members can participate in. When you think about it 80 dollar is 6.67 a month. If you cant afford that then you shouldnt be playing tournament disc golf in the first place. For pros its 9.17 a month and and you know those guys can afford it. All they would have to do is sell 1 disc a month for 10 bucks. Raising the dues 40 bucks for everyone would be 320,000 dollars that could be put back into the PDGA and used to pay BOD members a good amount of money to do the job they are doing for free right now. That way you would get more people running and if more people are running then more people are going to vote because when you have 3 people running and someone in the PDGA knows NONE of those people they they arent going to vote but if one of your friends or their friends is running and you think they would do a good job then your going to take the time to vote and make sure who you want in is in.

steve

are your friends paid or volunteers :eek: :D

More and more people wouldn't be playing or bringing new people in without the 25+ years of orginization effort that have been put in to make this a more attractive sport.



Your absolutely right but it doesnt give them an excuse to start doing a poor job.

I also thank the PDGA for all that they do I am just starting to get more and more upset about the rules and regulations that they are passing and the way they are going about things.

I can be appreciative and ****** off at the same time. I never said i didnt appreciate what they do i just said im ****** off and upset about some of the things they have been doing recently.

steve

are your friends paid or volunteers



Easy now Jack. You know im a good guy i just have a voice and if im upset im going to use it. They are volunteers though. I think they like to watch me throw 550 and thats why they stick around ;) LMFAO

Now we're getting somewhere.

I would imagine that your are upset about the Open player getting to play advanced thing.

Hey, if it's a bad idea then time will show that it is. If it sucks so bad then many players will voice their displeasure and the divisional structure decision will be changed. You have voiced your opinion.... you should let it go now.

If you are willing to pay more for your membership, there are Ace, Birdie, and Eagle memberships available now.

I have been in the Ace club every year but the first.

Im just sick of the PDGA saying things are going to be good for the sport then trying them out for a year and then saying oh sorry we made another mistake that wasnt a good idea lets do this. Its starting to get annoying.

Thats voluntary and you get things for paying the extra money. What i want would be mandatory and there would be nothing extra given. All the money would go back into the PDGA and to pay board members then people would also have a reason to vote because there money would be paying the people they elected. As of right now not voting or filling out surveys doesnt cost you anything.

We're trying to put together some demographic information for a couple of our sustaining sponsors. If you can spare a minute, please take the time to fill out this 12 question survey.

You may respond to the survey by clicking the following URL: http://www.AdvancedSurvey.com

When you arrive at the Advanced Survey homepage, type in survey number 22200 in the "Take A Survey" box.

Thank you very much for taking the time to answer these questions.

-Dan



back on topic :D

Or maybe it's like some guy volunteering to protect YOUR country... following the orders of YOUR president... getting himself killed far away from home.

Then some dude who enjoys the freedom he defended uses that freedom to talk about what a dumb ***** guy he was for not doing a better job.



Uhh...Todd? Are you really comparing the PDGA BOD to the brave men and women that defend this country? Please say that you were drunk when you wrote that.

Im just sick of the PDGA saying things are going to be good for the sport then trying them out for a year and then saying oh sorry we made another mistake that wasnt a good idea lets do this. Its starting to get annoying.


What would you suggest as a better course of action? There are changes that are needed.


And by the way, the current BOD isn't suddenty starting to do a crappy job after 25 years of amazing BOD work. The current BOD is probably the most organized and business-modelled as we have ever had. And I think they are doing great things, and lots of them.

And I mean no disrespect towards any previous BODs. Each BOD we have had has evolved as the sport has grown and evolved, and it is quite amazing that each did what it did when it did. All the efforts of the previous BODs moved the sport to where it has gotten big enough and has enough exposure to pull the current BID members from the population. None are the "best", as I think they have all been the best, and quite amazing, at the time.

Im just sick of the PDGA saying things are going to be good for the sport then trying them out for a year and then saying oh sorry we made another mistake that wasnt a good idea lets do this. Its starting to get annoying.



I don't know that we are talking about mistakes. I mean... it's trial and error used to solve a problem.

Problem: Sandbagging
Trial solution: Create divisions based on ratings.

Now it would seem that that is the perfect solution.... wouldn't it? PDGA tried it out, for some reason players didn't embrace it. PDGA got rid of it.

I mean... the alternative is not doing anything to solve the problem. I don't think we want to ignore problems. We try to fix things. I doesn't work. We try again.

It's sort of a human condition... the alternative is to give up. We don't want to be a bunch of quiters.

Now perhaps you would have better quality ideas to try. If that is the case then just run for a position. Sure you can't give 100%, but guess what... nobody in the world can.

Maybe your XX% will be more productive than the current members... who knows. All that is for sure is that what you do now is NOT productive. Not at all.

Uhh...Todd? Are you really comparing the PDGA BOD to the brave men and women that defend this country? Please say that you were drunk when you wrote that.



Yeah... bad analogy.
I was in the first gulf war and I was a BOD member.... I just felt a bit underapreciated for both... that was the real analogy.

I mean at least soldiers get paid something. I never met anyone that was in to die for the big bucks though.

Having volunteers on the BOD means that the people are doing the work because they love the sport. Having paid BOD members would mean that they are doing the work for the money. I would rather have the volunteer.

Don't worry about it Todd, I thought I remembered you saying once that you served so it struck me as odd.

Of course, you could have just said you were drunk, I would have let it slide. :D

Oh and thanks. For both.

Thats voluntary and you get things for paying the extra money. What i want would be mandatory and there would be nothing extra given. All the money would go back into the PDGA and to pay board members then people would also have a reason to vote because there money would be paying the people they elected. As of right now not voting or filling out surveys doesnt cost you anything.



If this is one of your proposals, I will not vote for you for BOD! You seem to not have a grasp on salaries and human motivation factors.

1) $80K divided 4-6 ways is less than $20K. What quality of minds and skill-sets do you think you would get for that?! You would get a bunch of highschool dropouts who are in it for the money.
2) The motivation of a volunteer who is stretching themselves for the love of a cause is much higher than the typical person attracted by a $7.50/hour job. Do you want the PDGA to be run by burger flippers? Nothing against burger flippers, but it would take the best of the best of the best burger flipper in the world to match the talent, experience, passion, and business/organizational accumen of the current PDGA BOD.
3) You think the outcry and fallout resulting from the "Pro's playing Am" rule change is serious? The fallout from raising the membership rate to a level to support a fulltime BOD would dwarf it 100-1000 fold.

Any other good proposals up your sleeves there Pimp?

And by the way, the current BOD isn't suddenty starting to do a crappy job after 25 years of amazing BOD work. The current BOD is probably the most organized and business-modelled as we have ever had. And I think they are doing great things, and lots of them.




Can you inform me of what great things you think they do??? Since i obviously dont know. Maybe that will offset how upset i am about the things i think they are doing wrong. This is a serious question not a smart [*****] comment and i would like to hear from the people defending the BOD what things they think the board is doing that a great.

I appreciate that you included the option of "widowed" in the marital status section. Too frequently, we're forced to choose between single, married, or divorced. So far, I'm the only respondent in the "widowed" category... :o

Ratings, EDGE and the support thereof, database driven website with all kinds of stats to look up, an in-process major revision of the rule book (yes, other BODs have done this too), the NT and attempts to build a product that will be mass-marketable, a promise to hold tourneys to tier-standards (I haven't heard of any tourneys being demoted, but I am hopeful that this really comes about), this messageboard as it currently stands, the marshall program that helps bigger tourneys with direct PDGA support.

That's all I come up with this second.

This is a serious question not a smart [*****] comment and i would like to hear from the people defending the BOD what things they think the board is doing that a great.

Ratings
Disc golf live
PDGA charitable foundation (which includes)
-matching baskets program
-innovation grants
-a governmentally accepted tax free charity.
Disc Golf World News
PDGA Radio
This web site
The National Tour
Nat. Disc golf center in Georgia (a huge accomplishment)
Some very nice world championships these past couple years
-yeah, the local hosts do tons of work, but so does the
PDGA.
Reaching out and working with orgs. in other countries
Disc standards and acceptance
PDGA affiliate club program
National scheduling... very tough stuff

I'm sure there is more... that was just off the top of my head.

Having volunteers on the BOD means that the people are doing the work because they love the sport. Having paid BOD members would mean that they are doing the work for the money. I would rather have the volunteer.



Ditto. If we started having paid BOD members this would turn into something extremely similar to real american politics. The system in place (volunteers) is the best fit for the PDGA's Consititution.

ARTICLE II
Section 1
'To promote the sport of disc golf in ways which will enhance the enjoyment of the game for its members and for the general public. To encourage good spirit and fellowship among all who play disc golf.'

All the volunteer board is trying to do is ENHANCE THE ENJOYMENT OF THE GAME FOR ITS MEMBERS.

Do not take any actions of the board and make them personal. That was a JOKE by John. A JOKE. His own opinion. And while you may associate him with the Board because that's where he volunteers, his opinion is still HIS OPINION. As he told us all at the end of his post.

I repeat, THE BOARD IS TRYING TO ENHANCE THE ENJOYMENT OF DISC GOLF FOR IT'S MEMBERS!

ARTICLE II
Section 2
'To maintain an organized framework for representative government by members of the association.'

These Board members are just guys who love the sport so much they want others to enjoy it as well. That is why they donate their time (as well as their money (they are PAYING members as well PIMP)). They do not make decisions to hurt disc golf or make it less enjoyable for its members (they are all members too!!). Thats exactly what they are trying not to do.

QUESTION: Why would the Board Members donate all this time, money, effort and STRESS??? (by the way most of their stress is from irrational people who do not think of the big picture, just "what can the board do for me?")

AWNSER: see ARTICLE II; Section 1.

Ref: PDGA's Constitution @ http://www.pdga.com/documents/PDGA_constitution.pdf

The board was not assembled to make every single person HAPPY.

They are here to make the ENTIRE POPULATION of disc golfers HAPPY. (well as happy as a large group of arguing, competing, extremely competive people can)

I think they do a great job and there is no way i could ever do what they do. (right now, but maybe much, much later.) ;)

If this is one of your proposals, I will not vote for you for BOD! You seem to not have a grasp on salaries and human motivation factors.

1) $80K divided 4-6 ways is less than $20K. What quality of minds and skill-sets do you think you would get for that?! You would get a bunch of highschool dropouts who are in it for the money.
2) The motivation of a volunteer who is stretching themselves for the love of a cause is much higher than the typical person attracted by a $7.50/hour job. Do you want the PDGA to be run by burger flippers? Nothing against burger flippers, but it would take the best of the best of the best burger flipper in the world to match the talent, experience, passion, and business/organizational accumen of the current PDGA BOD.
3) You think the outcry and fallout resulting from the "Pro's playing Am" rule change is serious? The fallout from raising the membership rate to a level to support a fulltime BOD would dwarf it 100-1000 fold.

Any other good proposals up your sleeves there Pimp?




My recomendation if your read the other thread was to raise dues by 40 dollars a person which would equate to 320,000 dollars a year which spilt 6 way ways would be more then 50,000 dollars a year. 50,000 dollars a year to be a disc golf board member im pretty sure you would get some **** good people to run for that position.

You are also wrong about drawfing the membership by raising fees 40 dollars a person. 80 and 110 dollars a year to be a member is pocket change. If you cant afford it then you shouldnt be playing tournaments in the first place.

Todd, most of what you posted there was done by volunteers other than the current BOD. until the BOD makes a real effort to get people to run against them, they won't have my respect. the past couple of elections they've pulled the maneuver of having one member resign a couple months before the end of their term, then appointing some puppet who is then the incumbent in the next election---most members vote for the incumbents in PDGA elections.

so the result is, there are only reactionary people on our current BOD, none whatsoever who have any real vision, or who have given much thought to how much better this organization and sport could be. they debate useless issues to death like the 2M fiasco and has-been pros playing am. they allow Guru to post attacks against great TD's while suspending TD's for attacking Guru. Then they come on the message board and act like they're god's gift to the sport when they're just a bunch of posers who only joined the BOD to further their own ideas and rarely listen to any outsiders.

oh and Rhett is a sycophantic poser too :p

[QUOTE]

Uhh...Todd? Are you really comparing the PDGA BOD to the brave men and women that defend this country? Please say that you were drunk when you wrote that.



Yeah... bad analogy.
I was in the first gulf war and I was a BOD member.... I just felt a bit underapreciated for both... that was the real analogy.

I mean at least soldiers get paid something. I never met anyone that was in to die for the big bucks though.

I thank you as well, Todd.


Mills, for the last month since your Pimp vs. Grunion crap, I havent said anything to you at all.Why? Because your posts actually were productive. As opposed to telling everyone in every post you throw a country mile, you actually started telling people HOW you throw that far. I thought up until I read your constant ******** and moaning here that you were laying out some really solid posts. Long story short is put up or shut up. You want changes, run for election. This guy is attacking you and I dont feel like its very proffesional, but I cant blame him, all your doing is whinning. Let it go and go back to making productive posts. I was actually enjoying some of them. Or do you need another " get rid of pimp" survey to decrease the size of your head?

Todd, most of what you posted there was done by volunteers other than the current BOD. until the BOD makes a real effort to get people to run against them, they won't have my respect. the past couple of elections they've pulled the maneuver of having one member resign a couple months before the end of their term, then appointing some puppet who is then the incumbent in the next election---most members vote for the incumbents in PDGA elections.

so the result is, there are only reactionary people on our current BOD, none whatsoever who have any real vision, or who have given much thought to how much better this organization and sport could be. they debate useless issues to death like the 2M fiasco and has-been pros playing am. they allow Guru to post attacks against great TD's while suspending TD's for attacking Guru. Then they come on the message board and act like they're god's gift to the sport when they're just a bunch of posers who only joined the BOD to further their own ideas and rarely listen to any outsiders.

oh and Rhett is a sycophantic poser too :p



Wow. I couldn't dissagree more with any of that.
About a third of the initiatives I posted about came about in the past 3 years... the remainder are ongoing and moving toward realization.

I don't know how the PDGA could encourage more poeple to run for positions. The truth is that these positions are not desirable to anyone save the few people willing to put out an effort commensurate with their love of the game. I can't see any reason anyone would donate their time and effort for any personal gain... there is none to be had.

Was the 2M rule debated to death?
I mean the way it is now... If a TD doesn't like the rule he can remove it. If he's indifferent then it stays. The PDGA just put it in the members hands... "do what you like" they said. "What?!?!?", replied some members, "Do what I want?!?!? That's the stupidest thing I ever heard of!!!!"

I don't get it.

And as far as BOD members popping off at obtuse members who just don't understand what's going on... well... it's a very unprofessional and very human thing to do. I can understand them giving back 1% of the abuse they get.

Long story short is put up or shut up. You want changes, run for election. This guy is attacking you and I dont feel like its very proffesional, but I cant blame him, all your doing is whinning.



I agree that all I am doing right now is complaing but on the other thread we have actually been talking about how we can improve what is going on at this point. I am trying to make more constructive posts and give suggestions of how i think things could be done differently. I am about done with this conversation and rant because it seems to be going no where and it really doesnt have all that much effect on me i just dont think it is a move that will bring more players into the sport i think its a move that will actually make players leave. I have spoke my mind and will be trying to talk to some BOD members while i am in AZ and see how that goes. Untill then i am done complaining about what i dont like. I will however discuss how we could fix what i think is wrong.

Back to Pimping :D

Mikey, why is it you only got one vote?

I guess maybe your track record and your platform weren't really very desrable to anybody. Even if such a diabolical plan were put in place to prevent you from joining the BOD, it couldn't possibly keep you from getting any votes. So maybe that evil plan isn't the real reason you didn't elected.

Other than Mikey, the only other person I can think of that lost an election was Andi Lehman. And instead of whining and crying making up conspiracy theories, she volunteered to help out doing stuff similar to the position she sought.

Note that Jon signed off on that note as a personal opinion, not as a BOD member.

well, even so jon was a complete total pompous idiot [*****] and he should be ashamed for his response. this is not the first time he has denigrated someone on this message board. he obviously has a very high opinion of himself and believes he is above the common man. maybe he's partaked in too many heritage activities - he is pretty old ya know. and dont bother playing the eagle scout card - i was in scouts also - its where i smoked for the first (hundred or so) times.

oh by the way, this is just some random words, not the opinion of any human being. :D

:D

Dang pimp, you are bummed out about something. Sorry I don't know what it is but to be quite honest I don't have enough time to spend poring over the board to see all the topics. I'm too busy out here in Washington keeping two courses going, introducing new people to the sport, working with parks departments, going to club meetings, etc. Oh yeah, and I work full time plus side work. Oh yeah, and somehow I try to fit in enough practice to keep people like Hammock, Oates, Leonard (fill in any Pro Master that likes to whoop on me here) in my sights at tourneys.

You do have the right and almost obligation to question that which you do not find to be correct. However, be prepared to take the heat for not being ready to step up and be the man in place of the man you don't approve of. I know I was critical of TD's until I was told to be one myself and now I understand after years of work and years of responses like yours.

I know Jon and his response shocked me. I am a person who does push the envelope in many ways and I have never seen or heard him act that way. He has always been a picture of professionalism You may want to check yourself to see if maybe you aren't coming off in a real bad way.

As far as OLD guys running things, what does age have to do with anything? Am I too old at 42 to relate to the public? Does anyone lose touch at a certain age and how can you tell? I think the age thing is way out of context and I can only imagine an apology is in order. This is coming from a guy who was probably a punk before you were in school and I still am. The fact is that maybe those that are still young and in more of an athletic prime don't want to give up their time to help.

So there you go. You said it yourself. You've got to play and that takes away volunteer time. Try not to be too crtical of those that aren't that selfish.

Thanks PDGA BOD. Even when I disagree with decisions you make I know you are trying to do the best for EVERYONE.

Later,
Papa

I'm too busy out here in Washington keeping two courses going, introducing new people to the sport, working with parks departments, going to club meetings, etc. Oh yeah, and I work full time plus side work. Oh yeah, and somehow I try to fit in enough practice to keep people like Hammock, Oates, Leonard (fill in any Pro Master that likes to whoop on me here) in my sights at tourneys.




And keepin' the hair just right. Don't downplay yourself, Scott.

When will I see some footage from your course?

Joe

OK, let's see....

I guess I shoulda taken the day off work to respond to all the responses....but it wouldn't have mattered. There are those that understood what I was trying to express, and those that didn't.

So let's start with this:

I apologize to Steve and to the membership for what was perceived by quite a few to be an unprofessional response to what I viewed as Mr. Mills' persistant and personal attacks on the intelligence, integrity, and dedication of myself and my colleagues on the Board of Directors.

That having been said, I also have this to say. I'm a member of this organization, like most of the posters here. So, Board member or not, I have just as much right to express my frustration at the discussion as anyone. And that expression of frustration sometimes goes beyond sweetness and light.

You should listen to what Todd Branch writes. He served on the Board a few years ago and I'm sure that he got to endure some of the same complaining back then. He appreciates what it takes to give some service to the organization and recognizes what has transpired since. It's not perfect, but it seems to be progress.

As far as a paid board goes, it isn't going to happen. This is a not-for-profit organization, and other than travel expenses, is not allowed to compensate directors.

When it's said, "I work 50 hours a week and don't have time to volunteer," do you think that the rest of us just sit around on our rears doing nothing but PDGA stuff? We have educators, managers, attorneys, accountants, and tech experts serving on the Board. If any of us got to spend a mere 50 hours a week on our "real jobs" it would be a luxury. I travel away from home at least 8 and up to 15 days a month and I know some of the others do as well. So please don't expect more from us than we have time to give beyond the real world.

I'm sorry you are unhappy with the Board and the PDGA, Steve. I'm sorry more players your age don't care enough about the organization to participate, but that's the way it is. Please blame them in the future, not us. I wish we had 70, 80, 90, 100% of the membership care enough to vote. I wish we had 1% care enough to write, call, talk to us personally about their issues, instead of berating us in this forum.

And one last thing: As far as "no one forces anyone to fight and die," Steve...you are so very wrong. The Honorable Richard Nixon forced me to fight, though I was lucky enough to not die. A few of my high school buddies did die, and I suppose I could have avoided it somehow, but I followed the law of the land, at the time, and served. I hope George W. doesn't continue to screw things up so they bring back the draft, because, you, Mr. Mills, will be right in the thick of it, as will my son, and I don't wish that experience on anyone. I respect and honor those who defend our freedom, but I pray for the day that wars can be fought civilly, with words, or not at all.

Again, my personal response. Nothing official. Just l'il ole me.

God, I hope that was a period to end this thread. At least get back to the original intent. What was it again?

God, I hope that was a period to end this thread. At least get back to the original intent. What was it again?



I think it was to find out just who disc golfers really were, by a survey of some sort. :D

We're trying to put together some demographic information for a couple of our sustaining sponsors. If you can spare a minute, please take the time to fill out this 12 question survey.

You may respond to the survey by clicking the following URL: http://www.AdvancedSurvey.com

When you arrive at the Advanced Survey homepage, type in survey number 22200 in the "Take A Survey" box.

Thank you very much for taking the time to answer these questions.

-Dan

God, I hope that was a period to end this thread. At least get back to the original intent. What was it again?



Nope, not done yet. I'm days behind as usual but this begs more. The notion that Jon's post was somehow, rude... overboard... inappropriate, seems a little silly to me. Jon's post, while slightly aggressive, was mainly in defense of the accomplishments of the BOD and other volunteers. It didn't even attack Millz, it simply asked him, given his general attitude, why he cares?

The naivety of people amazes me. The total lack of understanding of the costs of running any organization, and the lack of understanding of the shocking amount of work that gets done in this organization by volunteers, both on the board and off, is bigger than our national dept.

Just an FYI Millz, many of us couldn't do what the BOD does, most of them pick up their own costs including travel so we probably couldn't afford it (can you believe those guys, I mean paying to work for this organization, what losers). Furthermore, we couldn't work directly for the PDGA because, pardon me, most of what they do is to try and get people to work together, and that requires a level head, and good communications skills. One simply has to look at the lack of both here to realize that the BOD has skills most of us can't even comprehend. :D

I apologize yet again for the thread drift.

Jon, you have my appreciation and thanks for busting a hump for the rest of us losers.

Mikey, why is it you only got one vote?

I guess maybe your track record and your platform weren't really very desrable to anybody. Even if such a diabolical plan were put in place to prevent you from joining the BOD, it couldn't possibly keep you from getting any votes. So maybe that evil plan isn't the real reason you didn't elected.

Other than Mikey, the only other person I can think of that lost an election was Andi Lehman. And instead of whining and crying making up conspiracy theories, she volunteered to help out doing stuff similar to the position she sought.




Rhett, I only got one vote BECAUSE I WASN'T ON THE BALLOT, sycophant! D'OH! i ran in 2003 not last year.

FYI, I volunteer constantly to help out the National Tour Committee get off its lazy [*****] and get some sponsorship and get its schedule done before December every year, but am rebuffed. I volunteered last week to write up something for the front page of pdga.com about the first pro supertour of 2005, but do i get a response? nope, i get an email from the puppetmaster telling me he deleted the thread about the b-tier I ran. I've asked to help with evaluating the courses i've been playing while i'm out on tour this year, but can't get anyone on that project to send me the documents to do it. Let's face it, you just can't work with these people unless you are a sycophant like you rhett. bow down and hail Guru or you ain't worth spit to these losers.

I've asked to help with evaluating the courses i've been playing while i'm out on tour this year, but can't get anyone on that project to send me the documents to do it.



The Course Evaluation Project has been given to the State Coordinators, as one of their duties. Please feel free to offer your services to your State Coordinator or the Coordinator in any state where you might be available to do an evaluation.

thank you bruce.

I may be way off base but I run into the same situation Mikey. If you vounteer and get nothing it isn't that you're being rebuffed. That humming sound you hear is a staff that is so busy that they don't have the time to respond (I'm not going to even try and argue that they would be better served to step back and spend more time managing volunteers and less time doing the grunt work - mainly because I don't know how reliable volunteers are or the breakdown of the workload). It seems to me that the best way to help is to do it. Find out something that needs to be done, work up a rough and submit it. That way you take the burden off their hands to have to direct you.

Let's take for example a sponsorship recuitment package that I developed for Texas States. As a start it is a great document that could be modified for use throughout the country. I was even asked if it could be used and said yes and I would even help. Has anything been done? No. Why? Well there are things that have to be done to keep the organization going forward and right now that doesn't include this. The best way to proceed would be to do it myself and submit the result. Have I? No! Right now I'm committed to local projects. I could say, well they never asked, but I know better. When I get time, I will polish the document, make it generally formattable and send it in. If it is useful it will be used. If not, well...

My guess is this is how much of the stuff from Chuck gets done. He gets a good idea, works it up and shazam, the BOD says hey good job, Thanks!

Quote for the day: self starters are always the best.

Lyle,
After reading several of your post I would like to say that YOU are the sort of person that would make a fine addition to the BOD.

Do you have much spare time?
Do you have a thick skin?
Do you have plenty of extra cash?

Someone who could dedicate time to the sole task of coordinating volunteer efforts is just the sort of thing the PDGA needs. We tossed the idea around while I was on the BOD and 'volunteer coordinator' got lumped into someone's already overloaded task list.

I'd even be willing to help you and make it a tag-team mission if you are so inclined.

If you think that this is something you might be adept at then drop me a line via email. I'd leave the organizational duties up to you (since I really have no idea on how to go about it) but I'm sure I could be a worthy assistant.

nope, i get an email from the puppetmaster telling me he deleted the thread about the b-tier I ran



I was wondering about this myself. What happened to your Mardi Gras madness thread? Was it deleted because of the furor over you partly paying the Open women's division winner with a gift certificate instead of the cash she was supposed to win?

Lyle,

If by polish the document you mean edit it, I would be willing to take a look. Let me know via PM if I can be of any help.

Lung, you've got to do better than that. We paid out over 110% in cash to our Pro Women's division(the B-tier requirement), then threw in the gift certifcate for 2 free nights at the Holiday Inn Metairie on top of that. Pro Women's entry fee was only $33, doosh. Don't ever let the facts get in the way of post, Jeffrey. And don't mention that our first-place Open guy got more than the first place at a bunch of Supertours last year either while you're knocking our little event that paid out over $8700 in one day.

...I only got one vote BECAUSE I WASN'T ON THE BALLOT...


Really? I thought you were running for Competition Director this year. I didn't bother voting this year because I didn't think you had a chance.

Lung, you've got to do better than that. We paid out over 110% in cash to our Pro Women's division(the B-tier requirement), then threw in the gift certifcate for 2 free nights at the Holiday Inn Metairie on top of that. Pro Women's entry fee was only $33, doosh. Don't ever let the facts get in the way of post, Jeffrey. And don't mention that our first-place Open guy got more than the first place at a bunch of Supertours last year either while you're knocking our little event that paid out over $8700 in one day.



Okay, by your own admission $8,700 was paid out. 110% of the ladies entry fee is $132.00, an extra $12.00 of added cash, your so charitable. So what? My question would be more like, what was the payout to the men's divisions? Percentage wise and such.

I know I could go back and do the math and sling it around here as I ask "why, why the marked inequity, and you all wonder why there aren't more ladies playing?" but somehow, it's not worth the time and effort. It would just be wasted here.

So, what was the percentage? :confused:

The proof is in the pudding, oh, I meant payout!

What's really sad is that the official PDGA results show $298 paid out to the Open Women's winner, when she in fact received far less money than that, $100. Instead she received a hotel gift certificate that works only locally, requiring her to drive four hours to use it.

uh, what is all this whining about? it's pretty obvious neither of you have run an event before. I just filled out the TD report and followed the PDGA's instructions and that's how the PDGA instructions read...put the value of additional prizes into the payout. FYI, when computing payout %, you deduct the $3 PDGA fees before adding the 10% a B-tier requires. go ahead and whine all you all want, if andi doesn't want her gift certificate i'll buy it from her, but we paid out the 110% minimum to the ladies and then threw in a nice prize on top of that.

so how about you posers go run a tournament and see if you can even come close to the MGM payout? how about you posers attend the MGM and see how good it was before you criticize?

i calculate the men's open payout at about 230 %. how many events will top that in 2005? about 1%. maybe.

for you to say that the payout at the MGM, where every player got a t-shirt and sweet catered free lunch on top of the chance to win over $1000, is the reason women don't play disc golf is pretty ludicrous. pass me some of that stanky weed you got from president bush please...