I am in my low 50s and just started in disc golf, and absolutely love the game. I've been reading alot and trying to apply what I've learned about the proper throw, but my current distance has been an average of 172', with my longest drive of 234'. Can anyone tell me whats an acceptable average distance throw for someone my age? Thanks

If you learn the proper technique and use your body efficently, I think almost anyone can drive 300-325'.

www.discgolfreview.com (http://www.discgolfreview.com)

It has several articles on driving form and TONS of videos.

I would say 250 to 325, if you learn proper mechanics, possibly even further.

I would not base your distance throw against anybody else. The game is about the all around skill. If you can get that 234ft drive deadly accurate, then you would get the same score as me on a 430ft hole. Sure I can get it within the 30 diameter from the pin off the tee box, but if your second shot lands within 5ft, it still leaves me with a 30ft putt.

Work on form and accuracy, your natural distance should come after that.

Practice putting and upshots. Thats where the game is really won and lost. The distance will come in time but accuracy on the upshots and putting is the MOST important thing in this game. Wish i had known that fact when i started playing. I wouldnt have wasted all those hours in the field just trying to throw as far as i could and i could have spent them practicing my accuracy and putting :mad:

I so agree Mills. i used to spend an hour or so each day in front of my house tosing my discs in the field. shoulda spent that down at the course putting

Okay people, this gentleman needs to learn to throw farther than 200'. He didn't ask how to putt or how to approach.

I am sure he understands the concept of golf and that putting is very important. However, that isn't what he asked.

someones cranky. were telling him to not worry about his distance as it will eventually come. worry about more important things first

I am not being cranky. I was just trying to keep the thread on point. It isn't like I started a thread and said, "I can only throw 450'. Can someone help me throw farther?" Obviously, he needs to learn ALL aspects of the game to improve. Just because he didn't mention accuracy and putting in his original post, doesn't mean that he doesn't practice them.

with the proper mechanics and whatnot, you can easily throw 250. i can do that without an x-step/runup/what-have-you, and i've had a few surgeries on my front (right) knee, so i cant put too much weight on it.

The guy did kinda ask for help with distance, not to become a rising star. I agree on reading material on discgolfreview.com. Excellent advice. Ken Climo's site also has some good information for beginners.

Just keep trying to throw harder whenever you play, you have to get out of your comfort zone to learn to throw further, it might feel like you have no control over your drives for a while but you will learn to control it with practice and consistency of trying to throw harder, and putting more arm speed into your disc. I think that anyone has the ability to throw over 300 ft consistently unless they are physically bounded in some way. I'm still learning to throw further and further by watching others throw and trying different disks, start throwig orcs, and you'll throw an extra 30-50 ft right away.
Just my 2 cents.

I was just trying to keep the thread on point. It isn't like I started a thread and said, "I can only throw 450'. Can someone help me throw farther?".



HAH HAH HAH HAH oooooooooo, good one.

WOW!!! What a TERRIFIC response ! Thank you all so much for your advice. It is fantastic that there are people who care about other people, even in sports. I've played all the popular sports in my lifetime and very few athletes offer or even care about their fellow athlete....It is definitely commendable.....

Anyway, I read EVERYONES reply and they are all excellent comments/suggestions. Some additional notes:
- when I throw stationary (no steps, just legs/hips/shoulders), thats when I can throw ~172'-234'. But when I try to put a step or two (including the x-step), it doesn't add any more distance to my throw and I end up throwing the disc high.
- I"ve been concentrating on throwing stationary to get more consistent/accurate and once I get it down right, I plan to add a step, get that down right, then another step, until I throw the x-step correctly. Is this the right way to go about it?

- Concerning putting/approach, absolutely a must to practice. I bought a basket for my yard and practice the short approach and putt daily (except when the weather is bad) for 30-60 minutes. So I am working on my all around game.

Although I"ve only been playing ~6 months, I get frustrated when I cannot get the distance that others can get. I'm not trying to be a Climo, not at my age anyway (LOL), but I would like to be able to throw 250-300' respectibly.

Thanks again everyone, I REALLY APPRECIATE ALL your suggestions...it means a lot to me.....

WOW!!! What a TERRIFIC response ! Thank you all so much for your advice. It is fantastic that there are people who care about other people, even in sports. I've played all the popular sports in my lifetime and very few athletes offer or even care about their fellow athlete....It is definitely commendable.....


Or...people like to hear themselves talk :o


- when I throw stationary (no steps, just legs/hips/shoulders), thats when I can throw ~172'-234'. But when I try to put a step or two (including the x-step), it doesn't add any more distance to my throw and I end up throwing the disc high.


You might try the steps again. Don't go through the steps quickly, do it slowly until you and your body understand the proper foot placements and body rotations (I'd suggest not throwing a disc while doing this, just do the steps without a disc). When you feel more comfortable with the steps, grab a disc and try to throw without throwing too hard, you are working on form at this point, not distance. If you end up throwing too high again, pay attention to the angle of the disc when you release it, you might be pointing the front of the disc upwards a bit. If that doesn't seem to be the problem there are two more things I would check. What is your arm doing after you release the disc, it should follow through at an even level with your release point, saying your arm isn't flying up high after you let go. And finally, make sure that you aren't leaning backward away from your drive at all, this can also cause the disc to elevate improperly.

Go to the sites listed above and study other people drive, then mimick it in slow motion, then apply it.


I would like to be able to throw 250-300' respectibly.



If you are otherwise in good physical condition, this will be no problem at all.

Armond ... it's obvious you have the most important aspect of the game, or any game for that matter in hand, passion to play! That alone will do wonders for your game. As a 46 year old, and also a new player (played many years but didn't practice!), I commend your learning and playing the game! I love it too.

To answer your question and stay on topic ... If you have just started throwing, I think your driving distance is perfectly normal. It will improve significantly if you learn the x-step, proper form, and practice.

The x-step is essential to getting more distance. It is something that you have to practice and improve upon before you will see results. Keep at it. Work out in a park or somewhere that is really comfortable for you to chuck discs far. Get 6-10 similar or exactly the same driving discs and really concentrate on form. Don't try to throw too hard, form is more important. I have done this with drives, midrange shots (take your basket to the park and practice shots from a couple hundred feet and in), and putts. I use 6 discs, all the same for each distance. Even doing this once a week will improve your overall game, including your drives.

Fair weather golfer? I live in CO and play regularly in the snow and rain. Has helped me several times in tournaments when it started raining and the "competition" was shutdown. It's good to play in bad conditions too.

http://www.scottstokely.com has some videos and a book that is also good references to the game. So will say it's a little out of date, but I find reviewing it occasionally helpful in reeling back in some of my bad habits. It's always good to have a visual reference to good throwing form (especially if you don't have the opportunity � as many of the people on this message board do � to play with better or expert players regularly), and Scott is a pretty good driver. I have also found watching the tournament DVD's that are available another good reference to good form, and the variety of it.

I live in a remote mountain town, and often play with guys that don't practice at all. They always complain about their driving distance (and every other shot for that matter). In one year of practice, on average, I drive 25-50% further than them on every hole now, because I practice a couple times a week. Not on the course, but in a park. I have cut, on average, 14 strokes off my game in about 6 months. They all HATE ME! Just kidding.
They don't say practice makes perfect for nothing.

Stick with it and practice, and bet money that by this time next year you WILL be driving over 300 ft., for sure!

I got a few questions before i say anything.

What disc are you using to drive with???
Are you RHBH (righty backhand) or Lefty Backhand???
What weight discs are you throwing???
How far do you reach back when you throw???
What grip are you using when you drive??? IE: Fan Grip, Power Grip. Bird Grip. 3 Finger Power Grip etc etc etc.

If you tell me these things it will be alot easier for me to give you advice. That is if you want advice from me.

I taught myself how to throw and how to throw far. I wont say how far because the guys on here will just jump all over me and say all i do is brag about being able to throw far. But if you want some help id be happy to give you some advice i would just like to know the answers to those questions before i just start shooting off random advice.

All you do is brag about throwing far.

All you do is brag about throwing far.


:D

You guys are hillarious. One time a thread gets turned into DiscPimp can throw 900 ft and thats all you guys think i talk about. See this is the time where you guys say some stupid comment like that and then i come back with a comment and then you guys say that i started talking about my distance when really it was you guys who brought up the situation.

To answer Big_DG_Pimpn's questions:
- I throw Innovas sidewinder, eagle, orc, or valkyrie depending on what I'm trying to do.
- I'm a RHBH player
- the weights I use range between 160 - 170
- my reach is as far back as I can get with nearly a straight arm extended
- I tend to use a 3-finger power grip (no pinky). I use to use the 4-finger power grip but I tended to hold onto the disk to long and threw far right.

thanks to the others and their suggestions, I will definitely try them all.

you do mention you thorw far quite a bit man...

but i also see that about half the time someone else brings your distance up...

maybe we should all just leave pimp alone, he can throw far (maybe not as far as he says sometimes, maybe so) and we all know he can throw far, people vouch for the fact that he can throw far, whats all the need for discussion about pimps throwing distance???

1. He can throw far
2. He may not throw as far as he can say sometimes, but he still thorows hella far
3. He constantly admits that he can throw far but wishes he would have worked on his short game more
4. Some of us will never believe pimp about how far he can throw

Why don't we just leave it at that? It seems that other people seem more concerned about how far pimp can throw than he is...

I just think we all could spend a lot less time worrying about how far pimp can or can't throw and could spend more time posting things that relate to the thread... imo

just my 2 cents

How far do you guys throw in the snow?I went out today just to work on my drive (which in hindsight was a total waste of time!) and it was like I ve never known how to drive.Absolutly no footing which is a big part of my drive,Three sweatshirts on which didnt even allow me to get a good pull back plus when I went to rip the disc it would catch on my clothing or shoulder.my good rips were 350' Has Anyone else experienced this nightmarish driving hell?

LOL ... I experience this every time I go to my local course. We have had those conditions here since November! And when it's not snow/ice ... it's a mud hole! LOL Gotta love Colorado.
#1 I have purchased a great pair of boots. I use LOWA GTX Mid boots. GREAT sole on these. Good traction, but still allows me to rotate nicely. I can't say enough good things about this boot. Gore-Tex lining keeps my feet dry too. NOTE: They are not cheap. And being someone who is used to "pro-form" purchases, I was shocked to pay $125 for a pair of boots. However, I have not regretted it for a moment. They are fantastic boots.
#2 since you still can't run ... go-slow and take deliberate steps. Still use the X-step, but take it slowly. Your not going to drive as far, but you can still be accurate.
Hope this helps.

Note: CE I'm sure you already know this. Thought I would post suggestions for those that throw a lot less than 350 in harsh conditions ... lol

One other suggestion. Comfy down jacket, or fleece/synthetic underwear layers ... instead of sweatshirts. You can go much lighter and be a lot more comfortable throwing. Here in CO I wear one light synthetic top, and a fleece lined wind jacket ... usually does it for me unless it's really freezing. Then I pull out my North Face down jacket. It's really light and big enough that it doesn't restrict my throwing much.

Pretty much everything you need to know has been covered here.

Learn the X-step, it is a key point.

Here is the link to Disc Golf Reviews

http://www.discgolfreview.com/resources/articles.shtml

Read the article by Dave Dunipace, go do it, then re-read the article. Repeat numerous times.

While I think the article by Dave, and points made by Blake are very good, I've never agreed with the idea of tendon bounce. For me, tendon bounce is essentially a wrist flick that is so integrated into your throwing motion that it is subconscious. I spent a year and a half trying to get this bounce into my throw then went back to basics, added in a wrist flick to everything outlined by Dave and Blake and Shazam, my average throw is 350 and I limit out at 390. I can roll 400 and limit out at 450. Too bad my technique goes South in tournaments. :) (BTW - I'm 44). Whatever you want to call it, at the hit (the point the disc leaves your hand), your wrist pivots and this pivot puts proper tourque on the disc which is necessary for good distance and accuracy. When you read Dave and Blake's articles you will understand this issue clearly.


The other thing to do is streeeeetch! I do yoga 3 times a week. You can't put your body into it as well unless you are limber and that comes with stretching; especially for us older guys.

Stop setting yourself up for it then.I did it in humor.Call your lawyer, dude.

A couple of things directly. I have experimented with the three finger and four finger power grips. If you are grip locking on your four finger it is because you are using too much arm and arm speed. You need your grip to be as powerful as possible because when your tendon bounce or wrist flick slings the disc out, a week grip allows the disc to slip out before you can impart full power on it. I'm guessing the three finger grip works for you because as you over arm it the disc slips out before you have a chance to pull it too far to the right. Remember you are pulling through fast but loose until your forearm and wrist unwind at the hit.

Secondly, a good reach back is great but as Dave writes, only reach back as far as is necessary. Too much reach back takes you to far from your center of gravity. You are reaching back when your motion and throw need to be going forward.

Think about buying some of the Worlds or NT DVDs. There are 100s of great throws from all the top pros that you can examine and study.

BTW - acceptable distance depends on what you are aiming for. I play Am Masters and some of the very best players aren't throwing much over 300 feet. On the other hand, the very best are usually up closer to 350 feet and a little more. However, as has been said, distance won't get you the win, accuracy, upshots and putts will. I can throw as long as the best in my pool (at least in the tournaments I've played) and yet I'm generally at the bottom of the pool. The good players lay their upshots on the dime and putt lights out.

To answer Big_DG_Pimpn's questions:
I throw Innovas sidewinder, eagle, orc, or valkyrie depending on what I'm trying to do. <font color="red"> If you like Innova I would say those are great discs to start with. You may even want to try a Leapord. </font>
I'm a RHBH player <font color="red"> Good. You have the lefty holes just as much as the rest of us. </font>
weights I use range between 160 - 170 <font color="red"> If your going for more distance then you might want to try all the discs that your throwing in a 160 and under. They are a little easier to throw and will help you develope better technique in the long run.</font>
my reach is as far back as I can get with nearly a straight arm extended
I tend to use a 3-finger power grip (no pinky). I use to use the 4-finger power grip but I tended to hold onto the disk to long and threw far right. <font color="red"> I suggest you go back to the 4 finger because as said above you awant your grip to be as strong as possible beause once you develope good snap the disc may start to slip out of your hand before the hit and you will be losing everything left.

<font color="red"> I also suggest that you learn the run up all at one time. Start out slow. I use a 4 step run up with a semi X step. I start out facing the the target and i step left and turn sideways on my first step them i complete my X step and throw. Its very controlled and very balanced which is key to accuracy and distance. Control Smoothness and balance so you get the best transfer of power possible. I also think its a good thing to be on the balls of your feet and not flat footed. It makes the transfer of energy so much more smooth and It makes the follow threw alot easier on your joints if you start on the ball and roll toward the heel instead of being flat footed and putting sever amounts of pressure on your right knee. </font>
</font>




Thats how i do it except i throw max weight Discraft discs but i use the modifyed X Step and 4 Finger modifyed power grip when i am driving.

I hope that helped you. If you have any more questions feel free to PM me and ill help you with anything that i can.

DiscGolfReview is a great website as everyone else has said. It can teach you some great things but watching what other people do and trying to imitate that is how i got where i am today. Not that where i am is so great but i just watched and tryed no one really ever taught me.

what is a modified x step and modified power grip??

Lyle and Big_dig, thanks very much for your detailed and thorough suggestions. I will definitely go to work on them and let you know how I'm progressing over the next couple months.
Thanks again

I really dont cross my legs to make and X i kind of just bring my left one right in line with my right one. I dont think they every really cross. My modifyed power grip is hard to explain. I dont have ANY of the pads of my fingers resting on the inner wall of the disc. I basically make a fan grip and then slide and cram all my fingers up against the rip and my indexfinger rest along the bottow lip of the disc. Hard to explain. Sorry if that was confusing

confusing yes!!!

I think you would have to see it to actually know what im talking about.

Don't worry, it cannot be more confusing then my grip. I don't really hold onto my disc untill I start to swing my arm forward. And at that time I have no idea how many fingers I am using or how they are configured. I (think) it is a 4 finger power grip, I had been using a 3 finger power grip with my index finger on the bead. But have since changed grips to what I have now. So when people ask me how I can throw far, I really don't know, I just tell them "Throw frisbee hard".

Two things:

One, what does the current flight of your discs look like ? Is it mainly flat, all hyzer (angling left for a right handed thrower), or s-shots ?


Two, one thing that I have noticed, Throwing far and throwing hard are not the same thing.

The throwing motion is more of a whipping motion from the legs and torso with the arm as a lever more than a pushing point. The longest throws I have also seem to require the least arm stress. Kind of like a golf swing or a power baseball swing.

Everything starts closed (ball golf terms in reference to the target), then the legs move, the hips open, the large back muscles are pulled around by the hips, then the shoulder is pulled by the back muscles. The result is all of the speed and force is a product of your large muscle groups, not your arm.

Just my observations, but if you walk through it slow a few times, you can feel the natural tensions in the related muscle groups. Then you need a strong grip to generate enough snap (spin) to offset the speed.

gnduke,Big_DG,et.al., I had 15 minutes last night before heading to the campus to tutor students in computer networking and just in that 15 minutes I threw a 236' throw right down the 'throat'! WOW! Then I stood stationary and threw ~ 170-180'...thats an IMPROVEMENT already!!!

Answer to GNDUKE: My disc tends to fly hyzer and not S. HOw can I get the S flight???? Also, I play in a handicap league every sunday, and there is this fairway that is ~375' long, and the first ~200' is straight, then takes a HARD right to the basket. I watch some of the experienced players throw their disc that start out 'straight' and then turn right just at the right time. How do these RHBH players do it? My discs either go straight or fade, even when I use a Sidewinder/Eagle/Archangel,et.al..

Can anyone give me any suggestions? Or am I rushing myself and it will come later?

thnx :confused:

Lyle, I read those articles by Dave Dunipace and they were excellent. THere's a lot to grasp and then take it to the field, but I'm determined and excited by everyone's support.My goal is to get to the 300' mark and I"ll be happy.thanks alot

If you just started I wouldnt worry about being able to FLIP your disc which is what the guys your talking about are doing. You have to throw a understable or beat in disc on a hyzer and it just does it on its own. That will come later though. Just get what you already have dialed in then move on to new shots.

What techniques were you using when you practiced in the field yesterday??? Just wondering what advice you were going off of and what worked well and what didnt???

I kinda used all the suggestions mentioned. What I mean is that they all allude to timing, smoothness, don't THROW with your arm but with your legs/hips/back/shoulders and use your arm as a catapult, if you will. The concentration needs to be on the disc at HIT time. I used a slow/smooth x-step approach(your suggestion) with a bent-elbow approach (suggested by Dave Dunipace's Distance Secrets write-up). It'll take some practice to get it right, but its a start.

One question for you, what does it mean to put a tight grip on the disc at 'hit' time? do you actually try to squeeze the disc just when its time to release the disc? How does one know how much squeeze to put on a disc? One time I held it so hard the disc landed 5 feet from my feet and to my direct right side....it was funny but at the same time confusing...any help is appreciated.

I try to keep all my muscles as loose as possible till I start my pull threw. At that point i start to tighten up all my muscles including my grip on the disc. This gives you more of a WHIP like affect when your throwing and staying loose till the pullthrew will allow you to reachback even further then you were before.

I like the bent elbow technique as well. Thats what i use on ALL my shots.

Keep practicing and the distance will come. In the mean time practice your putting and upshots about 10 times as much as you practice your distance and you will improve much faster. I wish i had known that when i started out.

great suggestion....thats exactly what I will do. I have an innova portable basket in my yard and make good use of it. thanks alot

ok, I had 15 minutes in the rain/sleet to practice my new throws while at lunch today, and they were not very good. I'm sure it was a combination of excitement, rain on the discs(didn't bring my towel), and shoulder tension(trying to keep the rain out of the neck). But anyway, perhaps someone can give an idea of why the following is happening:

- I've now started to work on the bent-elbow format which has improved my accuracy and form, but

- I am still throwing with the nose point upward(I can see the top of the disc) even when the release seems to be flat nosed.

2 things that I tried to apply to correct this:

1) at address, I hold out my arm to the target in the shape of a handshake but with it pointed downward.

2) I am pretty sure I am on my right foot when I begin my extension of the elbow to rip point.

3) One habit that I have is trying to throw with my arm so I know right away when that happens, I have no distance and my disc is deffinitely nosed upward. But even when I think I threw it correctly, and the disc fly's ~180-220', I can see the top of the disc which means the nose is up.

I know that if I can just get the nose to stay down, my distance will improve dramatically. So does anyone have an answer for me? ok, how about a suggestion or two????

thanks,
Armand

I am just not a big proponent of the bent elbow technique, I feel that it robs power and arm speed. Plus it reminds me of an ultimate thrower.

If you look at the drives of the top pros, their arms are relatively straight, but not with their elbow locked. Theory is, as your hand is further away from your body, it will gain more velocity then if you have to open up your elbow. Also, as you open your elbow your wrist turns, this is likely what is causing you to release with the nose up. It takes practice and is not easy. Yes, you will lose accuracy for a short time, but as you get better with the straight arm drive, (using your back and shoulders to throw), you will gain both distance and accuracy in the end.

- I've now started to work on the bent-elbow format which has improved my accuracy and form, but

- I am still throwing with the nose point upward(I can see the top of the disc) even when the release seems to be flat nosed.

2 things that I tried to apply to correct this:

1) at address, I hold out my arm to the target in the shape of a handshake but with it pointed downward.

2) I am pretty sure I am on my right foot when I begin my extension of the elbow to rip point.

3) One habit that I have is trying to throw with my arm so I know right away when that happens, I have no distance and my disc is deffinitely nosed upward. But even when I think I threw it correctly, and the disc fly's ~180-220', I can see the top of the disc which means the nose is up.

I know that if I can just get the nose to stay down, my distance will improve dramatically. So does anyone have an answer for me? ok, how about a suggestion or two????




I have a few questions before i say anything.

When you release are both your feet still on the ground or is all your weight on your right foot with you left foot off the ground???

Second. If you left foot is off the ground is it swinging around to the left and making you rotate on your right foot or is it just staying behind you???

I find that then i start releasing nose up that i am not making a good follow threw on my throw. There for my body and are are pointed slightly toward the sky thus the nose up release.

You are right about the nose up release robbing you of distance though. It KILLS your distance because the disc just ends up stahling out and takin a hard dive left.

When your done throwing the disc how does your body look??? Where is the left side of your body??? Is it behind you points to the left or pointed down the fairway???

- I've now started to work on the bent-elbow format which has improved my accuracy and form, but

- I am still throwing with the nose point upward(I can see the top of the disc) even when the release seems to be flat nosed.

2 things that I tried to apply to correct this:

1) at address, I hold out my arm to the target in the shape of a handshake but with it pointed downward.

2) I am pretty sure I am on my right foot when I begin my extension of the elbow to rip point.

3) One habit that I have is trying to throw with my arm so I know right away when that happens, I have no distance and my disc is deffinitely nosed upward. But even when I think I threw it correctly, and the disc fly's ~180-220', I can see the top of the disc which means the nose is up.

I know that if I can just get the nose to stay down, my distance will improve dramatically. So does anyone have an answer for me? ok, how about a suggestion or two????




I have a few questions before i say anything.

When you release are both your feet still on the ground or is all your weight on your right foot with you left foot off the ground??? <font color="red"> I believe my foot is slightly off the ground but I must confess I haven't been paying attention to it, so I"ll have to check it out.
<font color="black"> </font>
Second. If you left foot is off the ground is it swinging around to the left and making you rotate on your right foot or is it just staying behind you??? <font color="red"> </font> I do believe it is rotating around but perhaps a little on the late side? The reason I say that is because I do end up with my left foot in front of me.
<font color="black"> </font>

I find that when i start releasing nose up that i am not making a good follow threw on my throw. There for my body and are are pointed slightly toward the sky thus the nose up release. <font color="red"> </font> Because I haven't paid much attention to this area, I guess I need to find that out first.
<font color="black"> </font>
You are right about the nose up release robbing you of distance though. It KILLS your distance because the disc just ends up stahling out and takin a hard dive left.

When your done throwing the disc how does your body look??? Where is the left side of your body??? Is it behind you points to the left or pointed down the fairway???

<font color="red"> </font> Again, I need to check it out first. I do know that I usually end up with my left foot in front of me when all is said and done.

I would say that you are doing it correctly but maybe you are starting your pullthrew a little bit early in your run up which can throw EVERYTHING off. The keys to distance and accuracy are. Timing balance and smoothness (if thats even a word) I would say timing and balance are the 2 you should concentrate on the most. Once you get the timing and balance down you will prolly look smooth anyway. I find my best throws to be when i take an a slow balanced run up and just go threw the motions. When i start trying to throw hard everything goes to hell(atleast when im on the course) Throwing for pure distance is a completley differnt technique all together.

So i would say work on your timing and balance and you should be able to keep that nose down.

One more thing though. When you release are you releasing at waist height or are you releasing at chest height???

Also when you reach back are you reaching back at chest height or waist height???

I only ask this because if you are reaching back at wait height and releasing at chest height then that would also create a nose up release resulting in loss off distance and extreme hyzer.

I am just not a big proponent of the bent elbow technique, I feel that it robs power and arm speed. Plus it reminds me of an ultimate thrower.



What about Steve Brinster and all the other pros who use bent elbow?

What about Steve Brinster and all the other pros who use bent elbow?



Potentially you can use ANY form you want as long as you can get it to be consisten. There are alot of ball golfers that have HORRIBLE form but are still great golfers. Its just works for them.

I myseld and a big fan of the bent elbow technique and choose to use it. Some people love it some people hate it. It comes down to whatever works for you. :D

What about Steve Brinster and all the other pros who use bent elbow?



Potentially you can use ANY form you want as long as you can get it to be consisten. There are alot of ball golfers that have HORRIBLE form but are still great golfers. Its just works for them.

I myseld and a big fan of the bent elbow technique and choose to use it. Some people love it some people hate it. It comes down to whatever works for you. :D



A lot of it comes down to your size. I am 6'4" and have long arms, so the full reachback is great for me.

It is kinda like poker. Howard Lederer is tight, solid and conservative (most of the time) and Gus Hansen will raise with almost any 2 crap cards in the deck. They both make millions.

Do what works for you, stick with it, and perfect it.

It is kinda like poker. Howard Lederer is tight, solid and conservative (most of the time) and Gus Hansen will raise with almost any 2 crap cards in the deck. They both make millions.



This is very true. There are many different styles of play in EVERY sport you just have to find the one that works for you and then try your hardest to perfect it.

[QUOTE]
What about Steve Brinster and all the other pros who use bent elbow?



Potentially you can use ANY form you want as long as you can get it to be consisten. There are alot of ball golfers that have HORRIBLE form but are still great golfers. Its just works for them.

I myseld and a big fan of the bent elbow technique and choose to use it. Some people love it some people hate it. It comes down to whatever works for you. :D




I am a wee 5'-4" and use the full reach back... heck gotta get power from somewhere

2 of our biggest arms in the state throw completely differently but boom 550'. They don't try to throw like each other. They stick to what they know.

I would say that you are doing it correctly but maybe you are starting your pullthrew a little bit early in your run up which can throw EVERYTHING off. The keys to distance and accuracy are. Timing balance and smoothness (if thats even a word) I would say timing and balance are the 2 you should concentrate on the most. Once you get the timing and balance down you will prolly look smooth anyway. I find my best throws to be when i take an a slow balanced run up and just go threw the motions. When i start trying to throw hard everything goes to hell(atleast when im on the course) Throwing for pure distance is a completley differnt technique all together.

So i would say work on your timing and balance and you should be able to keep that nose down.

One more thing though. When you release are you releasing at waist height or are you releasing at chest height???

Also when you reach back are you reaching back at chest height or waist height???

I only ask this because if you are reaching back at wait height and releasing at chest height then that would also create a nose up release resulting in loss off distance and extreme hyzer.



Yes, I thought about where I was releasing, chest height or waist height. Lets just say I start out at chest height. What could be happening is 1) I may actually be releasing just at the precise moment when I move to my right leg, which means my weight is still behind at the time of starting my release; or 2) I may be turning my wrist and throwing my arm upward between release and follow through.

Concerning Bent elbow and the full reach methods, I was using the full reach method before I tried the bent elbow. I find that I have less control with the full reach than the bent elbow, but thats me. Also, pros that use the bent elbow include Dave Dunipace, Steve Brinster, and Brian Schweberger to name just a few. Bottom line, throw what is best for you!

One question for you, what does it mean to put a tight grip on the disc at 'hit' time? do you actually try to squeeze the disc just when its time to release the disc? How does one know how much squeeze to put on a disc? One time I held it so hard the disc landed 5 feet from my feet and to my direct right side....it was funny but at the same time confusing...any help is appreciated.



I'm guessing you have gotten a lot of replies to this question. Here is my perspective. The idea of tightening your grip at the hit, for me, is misplaced. Take a look at some of the copious video that is out there. All the pros take a tight grip at the start; you can tell this because they flex the crud out of their discs during their wind up and approach to the throw.

I think what this is suppossed to convey is two things. The first is that you don't start ripping the disc with your hand and forearm until the very end of throw right before the hit. You aren't suppossed to be pulling through with your arm until after your legs, torso, and shoulders have pulled through. As your body comes around to face the target, your elbow leads bending the forearm in and bringing the disc closer to your chest (I'm describing the reach back method here). When your arm reaches the maximum bend for an efficient throw and your body has rotated far enough, you unwind your forearm and acheive "tendon bounce" (or wrist flick). That forearm unwind is incredibly powerful and feels like you are pulling the disc with a crushing blow. As your wrist unwinds accelerating the disc it feels like you are squeezing it with a great deal of power. It feels great and the disc jumps out of your hand flies out about 100 feet and then flips about 5 degrees side to side and then seems to go forever.

However, for me, the concept of simply bringing the wrist to a stop, or attempted stop, while squeezing the disc never got great results. It may be that I am accomplishing the same thing Dave describes but trying to do what he described never worked well for me. Every thing else seems to fit what he is saying.

As for the bent elbow technique (and I haven't read through the other posts on this yet). For me, the bent elbow forces you to put your power on the forearm unwind. It is all to easy on the reach back method to start pulling through with your arm (upper arm) and unwinding the forearm too soon. With the bent elbow technique you can focus on only unwinding once you are in the proper position. I use the reach back method but have to focus on not pulling through with my arm until I get all my other parts in motion.

Personally, I recommend to people I run into that they use the bent arm. To get it to work you have to have proper forearm unwind timing. With the reach back method you can use an overstable disc and arm power and still got reasonably good results. On the other hand, for me personally, I have never gotten the same distance with the bent elbow. But then again, I haven't worked it as hard as I've worked the reach back technique.

I believe, and I may be incorrect, that your rotation and unwind happen after you transfer your weight to the plant foot. Again this is from video watching. I think if you are getting your hit immediately after that plant you are pulling through to early. That plant foot is the base of your power. All the drive of your legs and torso feed down through that plant foot.

One other thing about the reach back method. For me, the period between the disc moving forward and getting my elbow fully bent is sort of a cocking time. I am able to get more of a whip out of the throw. This can be seen clearly in the throws by Ken Jarvis, Steve Rico, and Barry Shultz seen on Theo Pozzy's site.

http://home.comcast.net/~tpozzy/prodrives.htm

You're going to love these videos!

The throwing motion is more of a whipping motion from the legs and torso with the arm as a lever more than a pushing point. The longest throws I have also seem to require the least arm stress. Kind of like a golf swing or a power baseball swing.

Everything starts closed (ball golf terms in reference to the target), then the legs move, the hips open, the large back muscles are pulled around by the hips, then the shoulder is pulled by the back muscles. The result is all of the speed and force is a product of your large muscle groups, not your arm.

Just my observations, but if you walk through it slow a few times, you can feel the natural tensions in the related muscle groups. Then you need a strong grip to generate enough snap (spin) to offset the speed.



That was probably the best way I've seen that information put.

So, technique is what gives you distance. Part of technique is timing, timing when you use your muscles right? When do you use your muscles and which ones? Does the power from the throw start with strongly kicking off from your left foot right after your right one has been planted? and then use each muscle group traveling upwards and ending up to your shoulders?

I was with Kid Roc and saw how he throw his orcs and teebirds. He sure can throw over 450 feet! Lucky He is tall and has a long arm. For me I am average 5 11 tall and normal arm. Plus I am 36 yrs old. My best far throw was 420 feet. Normally I can shoot 350 to 380. I usually throw all rocs and aviars on the open field during lunch hours. It helped my game alot. Just use your imaginary baskets like small trees and throw all to that trees in about 200 to 250 feets with hyzer or anhyzer. Once I witnessed Nolan can threw real real far on hole 1 (veterns park) He threw orc and went over the street to apt! :eek:

When do you use your muscles and which ones?



For me, the rotation starts with the right leg coming forward, and the power starts with the left foot pushing off as the hips open toward the target. The main pull is from the larger back muscles as the torso starts to follow the hips and ending with the shoulder starting the turn last and working to catch up and pass the everything else before the hit.

But that's just me, and I top out around 400'

Theo Pozzy's site. http://home.comcast.net/~tpozzy/prodrives.htm



Use your space bar to go frame by frame. You'll see that when their plant foot is planted that they THEN begin to bring their arm forward.
For nose up flights, try to consciously follow through a little more down with your throwing shoulder/arm, this will encourage the disc into a better nose down configuration resulting in a low line drive "golf shot". Distance will 'occur' with time and smoothness.
.02

If you're shots are going pretty straight and level without any major stalling or hyzering, and you think they're nose up, maybe it'd help to concentrate on keeping your wrist pointing down throughout the entire pull through. I know I used to **** my wrist down before I reached back, and then forgot about it. I tried concentrating on keeping it down throughout the entire throw a couple times and my release seemed much cleaner and the disc seemed to be flying better, I wasn't looking at the flight plate to see if I could see it, but I think I achieved a nose down release due to keeping my wrist cocked down.

Distance is important. People with good D have an automatic advantage.

1. Holes where you have to throw over a lake, people with no D have to take extra shots to throw around the shoreline because they can't go over the lake.

2. People with good D can throw 250 foot upshots and only use 50% of their effort, so they have more control. People with no D have to use 90% of their effort and lose accuracy.

Now I have to go learn how to throw far.

2. People with good D can throw 250 foot upshots and only use 50% of their effort, so they have more control. People with no D have to use 90% of their effort and lose accuracy.



Disagreed. I've seen plenty of players with a crush have trouble with upshots. They lose control on touch shots because the speed and motion is not the same as a drive.

very true lou!!!