Looks like team Discraft lost some players.

INNOVA welcomes Carrie Berlogar, Darrell Nodland and Matt Orum to the team

Where did you get this info from???

From the Innova website... :D

I think Innova is trying to sponsor the whole tour

sounds good!! team of champions!!! :D

Where did you get this info from???

I talked to Burl the other day and she told me.

Yea! Burl will be unstoppable now that she is throwing the best discs! :D

That's Right RheTT

The disc's don't decide the results, the thrower does.

well then why are there so many better players on team innova??? haha,, hhhhmmmmm

disc's don't make the players, I was a struggiling 993 rated player for a year to year in a half throwing all innova, I then switched to discraft, and in 6 months got to that infamous thousand rating.

Could be a statistical fluke with three aces in there :D

congrats!! big milestone , for which i will never reach! however i am pro-innova and feel they are superior , therefore i will take my baby steps (in rating) with innova in my bag!!

Plain and simple both companies make good discs, And a third is on their way more and more all the time. Throw what you like and good luck with the game.

That is right Bla kelly

dam rookie is going to try and get ya in 32 days or so. Can't wait, snow won't go away!

Plain and simple both companies make good discs, And a third is on their way more and more all the time. Throw what you like and good luck with the game.



absolutely , which was my point!! it's all about preference!! and by statistics innova is the preference of more of the best players!!!

Well said, Thrower's who Know, Throw Innova.

well then why are there so many better players on team innova??? haha,, hhhhmmmmm



Because Innova chooses to spend more sponsorship dollars on top players only, where as Discraft sponsors a lot of up and coming players. Both ways promote the company well, and seem to work for each.


Players tend to get chosen by the disc company, they don't just say "I want to be sponsored by Innova cause I like their discs better" and get instant sponsorship.

I "love" people that say Innova's team is stronger as well. That's because Innova has higher qualifacations to be on their team, which restricts the amount of players they sponsor.

Congrats on getting sponsored Matt, as well as getting the 1000 rating. Hopefully see you at March Madness in Columbus.

I honestly think that if there was one disc company and players could throw anything they wanted that is out on the market today most top players would throw the following....

Firebird
Teebird
Roc
Buzzz
Wizard

[QUOTE]
I honestly think that if there was one disc company and players could throw anything they wanted that is out on the market today most top players would throw the following....
Firebird
Teebird
Roc
Buzzz
Wizard [/quote
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You ment to say ......

Flash
Zxpress
Predator (forehand)
Buzzzzzzzzz
Storm
Magnet

LOL, that wasn't even close!

Can you tell me how many touring pro's there are for each company? I mean players that do nothing but disc golf last year. For innova I can think of quite a few, for discraft I can only think of about a handful.

Gateway does not have one single player that JUST plays disc golf. Yet multiple players have won supertours and are almost always in the money. Not too bad for a disc company that has only been around for about 7 years, and only about 4-5 years since having more than 3 disc molds. :)

absolutely , which was my point!! it's all about preference!! and by statistics innova is the preference of more of the best players!!!



The reason for this is most of the top players have been playing for 10 years or more and 10 years ago i hate to say this but INNOVA was the only thing worth throwing back then. So they started with that and got good with that and then got sponsored by them. If all those guys started right now I think they would be split between the two which is what you are going to start seeing in the next 5-10 years because there is another batch of SUPERPROS in the works and they actually have a choice of 2 great companies and one up and coming company. I think your going to start seeing new SUPERPROS throwing Discraft and Gateway along with INNOVA but i dont think there will be ONE company with most of the SUPERPROS like there is now.

If all those guys started right now I think they would be split between the two which is what you are going to start seeing in the next 5-10 years because there is another batch of SUPERPROS in the works and they actually have a choice of 2 great companies and one up and coming company. I think your going to start seeing new SUPERPROS throwing Discraft and Gateway along with INNOVA but i dont think there will be ONE company with most of the SUPERPROS like there is now. [/quote

Interesting, so tell us why so many people have left Discraft to come to Innova?

If I had to guess, I would say its not because of the quality of the discs, its because of other reasons.

I don't know what Innova gives their top players, but I do know that they don't sponsor their up and comers vary well unlike Discraft which give up and comer's good sponsorship which is why we will see a new bread of Discraft sponsored top pros as long as Discraft can keep them.
One the other hand how many new tee-birds has Innova turned out in the past four years: DX, New DX, CE t-mold, CE TL-mold, CFR TL-mold, 10x, 11x, Champion, etc.....

I like innova but when I can find a run of plastic that suits me but there are a lot of times that they **** me off especially when they change the mold or plastic of my main disc IE teebird, spider, starfire, and firebird. At least Discraft's consistent.

You guys have some serious issues! If you people would quit spending energy on stuff like this, and channel it towards your pitiful golf game then maybe one day you to could be sponsored. Thanks for wasting your time and energy on me, by helping my day go by quicker. Carry on...................

If all those guys started right now I think they would be split between the two which is what you are going to start seeing in the next 5-10 years because there is another batch of SUPERPROS in the works and they actually have a choice of 2 great companies and one up and coming company. I think your going to start seeing new SUPERPROS throwing Discraft and Gateway along with INNOVA but i dont think there will be ONE company with most of the SUPERPROS like there is now.




Interesting, so tell us why so many people have left Discraft to come to Innova?


I would say that innova gives their top leave player more than Discraft does since innova doesn't sponsor young talent like Discraft so they have more money open for the top players on their team. Or maybe it's a prestige thing since so many people think innova is better than Discraft or the people on their time are some how better than every one else.

I think it is about the same

would say that innova gives their top leave player more than Discraft does



The perks are very similar. I've been told by a few innova Champion Team members what they get, and i know what D,X,and Z Team Discraft boys get :D

Have you ever heard of Discraft's "Cyclone"? 10 years ago this was just about the hottest disc around!

And before that, the Eclipse was the 'bomb' in 1989 when I started.

That's right. And how long has Discraft had their name next to the Distance record? Anyone remember Scott Stokley?

And how long has Discraft had their name next to the Distance record? Anyone remember Scott Stokley?


I think that had a lot more to do with Scott Stokely than it had to do with X-clones and XLs.

You mean it was the indian, not the arrow? :D

At least Discraft's consistent.



When Discraft starts selling as many discs as Innova does, they'll have the same problems with and not being able to buy the exact same plastic time after time after time. In other words, if a run of 5000 discs takes a lot longer to sell for one company, then that disc will seem more "consistent" because you can buy from the exact batch for a much longer period of time. Unfortunately disc manufaturers don't have a grip on a "vertical market" where they produce the plastic they use, so they are dependant on suppliers who can't always supply the exact same blends time after time.

disc manufaturers don't have a grip on a "vertical market"


Amen.

disc manufaturers don't have a grip on a "vertical market"


Amen.



It would be a crying shame, but the only way to do that would be if a chemical company that produced plastic, would buy out Discraft or Innova. Sure the consistency of the plastic would go up, but we would lose the innovation and % of budget allocated to R&D, which is what we love about these companies. Oh and Gateway, Lightning and Ching too. I hope none of these companies sells out to big business. But it will mean that disc golf is becoming a larger more lucrative sport if that happened.

At least Discraft's consistent.



When Discraft starts selling as many discs as Innova does, they'll have the same problems with and not being able to buy the exact same plastic time after time after time. In other words, if a run of 5000 discs takes a lot longer to sell for one company, then that disc will seem more "consistent" because you can buy from the exact batch for a much longer period of time. Unfortunately disc manufaturers don't have a grip on a "vertical market" where they produce the plastic they use, so they are dependant on suppliers who can't always supply the exact same blends time after time.



I'm curious to know the sales of each company, but I bet that Discraft's sell are equal to innova's.
It just looks like innova out sell Discraft to you Rhett because you live in So Cal and that just happens to be where innova is located. I bet if you went to Michigan you'll find a lot of Discraft being sold.

And how long has Discraft had their name next to the Distance record? Anyone remember Scott Stokley?


I think that had a lot more to do with Scott Stokely than it had to do with X-clones and XLs.



Since someone mentioned Scott Stokely in the context of the Innova v Discraft debate, here is a little story y'all might enjoy.

I was watching the Open men's distance finals at Worlds this year when some toothless shirtless bystander said, "Well all them boys who be throwin' in these here finals is sposored by Innova. I reckon that oughta' tells ya' sumthin'." I was baffled as to what this should tell me, but my new-found buddy was quick to point out that this meant that Innova made the farthest flying discs. I asked if Innova also made the farthest flying discs when Scott Stokely held the distance record. To my amazement, he answered "Well, I reckon he wouldna got hurt if he'd a been throwin' Innova..."

Now obviously there is no way to argue with that type of rational thinking, but my friends who are sponsored by Discraft seemed to get a kick out of the story.

I'm curious to know the sales of each company, but I bet that Discraft's sell are equal to innova's.
It just looks like innova out sell Discraft to you Rhett because you live in So Cal and that just happens to be where innova is located. I bet if you went to Michigan you'll find a lot of Discraft being sold.



I would bet the house that Innova sells more discs than discraft, simply because innova is a much larger company. hence innova west and innova east. i could be mistaken though.

Why are so many of us arguing about what disc company makes better discs? WHO FREAKING CARES!!!! Just find what works for you and don't believe the HYPE!!!

Yep...you know our sport is not going to get any bigger if we all cant get along!!

Eric

how is it that a thread called "TEAM DISCRAFT" is just abunch of people talking about how they like innova disc ? :D

I don't know but from reading the thread it sounds like Team Discraft is the JV Innova team so it probably makes sense to talk about both. Do well and 'graduate' to the Innova team. Screw up and Discraft might take you. Isn't that kinda how it's been? Talk amongst yourselves now.

(Not a member of either team and I throw both. Just making trouble) :eek:

Y E-MAC! Are you coming to the Big Show?

JV ya say Chuck. So, my 47, a 1034 rated round this last Sat is of a JV level? What's that make your 56/ 944 rated round? Squirts or maybe pee-wee level. :D
Guess I'm a JV lifer then. ;)
Resume the non-sense. :D

Y E-MAC! Are you coming to the Big Show?



Yep. I will be there for all 4 events. I'm ready to get out of Kansas where we have about 3 in. of snow on the ground!
Eric

I thought I might flush you out and it worked! If you're comparing your rounds to mine then you're operating at the JV level. Since I don't believe MN has an Innova sponsored player, does that mean our top players still aren't good enough just yet, or were you asked and declined?

(Just workin' ya so I have a chance at league once in a while to not contribute to the TG retirement fund. :) )

I also find all of this amusing.

I love them. I hate them. They rule Cali....but They rule Michigan.

Guess what? They don't care! All They love is your money.

Which raises another question or two. Doesn't Discraft make the Official Ultimate disc? Doesn't this disc sell by the thousands, or millions worldwide? How much larger is Ultimate's player base than disc golf's player base? Is it even larger? Might there already be a thread on this topic?

Discraft does make the official Ultimate disc. Any collgegiate or other sanctioned (or whatever they call it in the Ultimate world) game of ultimate in the entire country has a Ultrastar flying over the grass.

Speaking of money, I hope I get this right. I believe Stork was telling me that he suggested Wham-O make the Ultimate disc when he and Ed were working there. When the owners asked 'how many discs each player used?' Stork said, 'just one per match of 10 or more players.' They laughed and said the market was too small. So, Discraft 'ultimately' ended up making those discs.

Actually I believe Whamo WAS making the Ultimate disc and then the association WANTED to switch to the Discraft UltraStar.

I have no real idea what happend but i do recall having a conversation with someone about this and i think my statement is more along the lines of what happend.

That's pretty funny. Thanks Chuck.

Do you have any idea on how large/small "ultimate" is?

time for a search engine...............

Do you have any idea on how large/small "ultimate" is?




I'm sure the number of casual players is larger, but the Ultimate Players Association (UPA) has about 19,000 members -- and that is people who play competitive Ultimate. At any Ultimate practice there are many discs not just one -- most competitive players probably have at least two ultrastars of their own.

http://www2.upa.org/upa/about

I don't know but from reading the thread it sounds like Team Discraft is the JV Innova team so it probably makes sense to talk about both. Do well and 'graduate' to the Innova team. Screw up and Discraft might take you. Isn't that kinda how it's been? Talk amongst yourselves now.

(Not a member of either team and I throw both. Just making trouble) :eek:




Chuck is this the highest rated round by a woman to date? --

1036 by: Juliana Korver [46] 6/3/2000 Swope (2000 KC Wide Open)

Was she sponsored by Discraft or Innova at that time?

Also, have there been any Team Innova members who switched to Team Discraft?

Also, have there been any Team Innova members who switched to Team Discraft?



I know Cam Todd switched to Discraft, but I do not know the details of that.

From casual conversation with one who knows, the previous "official" ulty disc maker ended up using off-shore (or perhaps cross-border) manufacturing facilities and the resulting product was not what the players wanted and preferred. Enter Discraft

Least that's the take on it I heard.
.

Also, have there been any Team Innova members who switched to Team Discraft?



I know Cam Todd switched to Discraft, but I do not know the details of that.

And Lesli Herndon and Mike Young. Mike Young has switched back to Innova.

I do know that Discraft sells more total $ in Ultrastars than they do ALL their DG stuff combined. And it takes a tenth (if that) of the warehouse space. Innova seems to design a disc for every throw and situation and is therefore saddled with a HUGE stock load and warehousing situation. They're just different approaches to the business.
Neither one is superior. End of story.

Innova began as a company designed to address the needs of disc golfers. Innova triggered the creation of discs designed specificly for driving, putting, etc. We all have benefitted from the fact that the founder of Innova was a disc golfer with skills. Anyone know much about the founding of Discraft and its original product(s)?

I do know that Keith Murray was a tool and die maker by trade. (The profession of my father!) That is why I believe their runs of discs are more similar then Innova's, Keith proably just builds better/longer lasting die's.

This thread cracks me up! I have not looked on this site for quite a while and it never fails to hear the same stupid arguement. I think Blakely said it right, both make good products, pick one you like and get better. As for Chucks comment on the JV Innova team...that is quite funny! How many of you on here talking ***** would love to be on that JV team in a second! :DDiscraft gives the non-touring pros more of a chance, that is known. Does that make them inferior, don't think so. All the Ams that post on this board should be giving them a shot and perhaps get a shot at being sponsored.

Oh yeah, Schweb, go out and practice and quit talking so much crap on here you mullet! You are about to be married and all will change! :o

Frankly, my brand preference is usually for the up and comer like Avis "We try harder," versus the recognized brand leader. I choose Mac over IBM, and Canon over Nikon, for example. So, my JV remark was just tweaking the folks like Timmy who bit, but is one of the great guys on tour regardless of brand preference. In the case of Discraft and Innova or any of the others, if a disc works for me, I'm on it. I just wish it was easier to buy the same model a year later that still flies the same.

Then why dont you switch do Discraft??? ;)

No harm Chuck, I realize your comment was in fun. My post was more toward others on here who make me laugh quite often!

You'll soon get to see I'm throwing the discs that work for me which includes Discraft. :cool:

Oh yeah, Schweb, go out and practice and quit talking so much crap on here you mullet! You are about to be married and all will change! :o

Bradley, what up married man? Things might have changed for you but not for me, I wear the pants in this relationship. :D :eek: :D;)

Keep making comments like that and let them fall on the wrong ears, and you may end up having trouble getting into the pants of your relationship! :D

...what up married man? Things might have changed for you but not for me, I wear the pants in this relationship. :D :eek: :D;)


Spoken like true "about to be/just married" guy! :D


Q. Why does the bride smile when she's walking down the aisle?

A. ...

I don't know but from reading the thread it sounds like Team Discraft is the JV Innova team so it probably makes sense to talk about both. Do well and 'graduate' to the Innova team. Screw up and Discraft might take you. Isn't that kinda how it's been? Talk amongst yourselves now.

(Not a member of either team and I throw both. Just making trouble) :eek:




Chuck is this the highest rated round by a woman to date? --

1036 by: Juliana Korver [46] 6/3/2000 Swope (2000 KC Wide Open)

Was she sponsored by Discraft or Innova at that time?

Also, have there been any Team Innova members who switched to Team Discraft?

That is currently not the highest rated round by a woman, but the round that is beating it will probably be corrected lower in the next ratings update. Juliana was sponsored by Discraft in 2000. I remember because after she carried me to a win in a league doubles event she was running, I received a Discraft Doubles trophy disc.

In the past, I've heard from people who should know, Innova has had an economic advantage over Discraft by virtue of the patent litigation settlement. Presumably the settlement terms expired with the patent and now there is a level playing field.

Doesn't matter. Discwing will make both of them obsolete! :D

Doesn't matter. Discwing will make both of them obsolete!



YEAH RIGHT! /msgboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif I think its safe to say that neither Innova or Discraft will be going very far unless a major company like Nike or something buys them out. And that would take a pretty big check to do that, maybe 8 digits worth of a check.

can you imagine??

Keep making comments like that and let them fall on the wrong ears, and you may end up having trouble getting into the pants of your relationship! :D

Wanna bet, I make that comment to her regularly. I have been down this road b4.

Thanks for the info, I suspected Juliana was throwing Discraft then. Who threw the prewsently highest rated round for a woman and why do you expect it will be corrected down?

As for Discwing -- I hear there are durability issues with their design (iow, the things become very understable very quickly). Can anyone confirm or deny that?

How many of you on here talking ***** would love to be on that JV team in a second! :D



I think it is more like Chevy and Ford lovers arguing over which company is best. It depends on your preferences. Many who truly like one brand over another wouldn't want a brand new free one made by the other company except to sell or trade.

Even though I prefer Innova, I do carry a few discs made by Discraft. Not being a sponsored 1000 rated disc golfer has its privileges :D

robj, i do believe the durability issues come from the plastic that they have thus far been produced in. supposedly once they go into production they are going to use a better plastic. also i remember Dunipace talking about the design and saying something about how it beats up easily, so that could be the case as well.

Keep making comments like that and let them fall on the wrong ears, and you may end up having trouble getting into the pants of your relationship! :D

Wanna bet, I make that comment to her regularly. I have been down this road b4.



each relationship is unique in its own way!! never judge yours by others and do not stereotype!! and definately do not let someone else'es envy affect your judgement!! :D

Keep making comments like that and let them fall on the wrong ears, and you may end up having trouble getting into the pants of your relationship! :D

Wanna bet, I make that comment to her regularly. I have been down this road b4.



each relationship is unique in its own way!! never judge yours by others and do not stereotype!! and definately do not let someone else'es envy affect your judgement!! :D

Yeah, what Efrain said.

Keep making comments like that and let them fall on the wrong ears, and you may end up having trouble getting into the pants of your relationship! :D

Wanna bet, I make that comment to her regularly. I have been down this road b4.



each relationship is unique in its own way!! never judge yours by others and do not stereotype!! and definately do not let someone else'es envy affect your judgement!! :D

Yeah, what Efrain said.



experience is priceless!!!!! :D:D

mos def.

Efrain's my hero!!!!! :D:D:D:D:D

Efrain's my hero!!!!! :D:D:D:D:D



hahaha!! now thats funny!!