I know that modifying a disc with intent on improving its flight other then designed by the manufacturer is illegal in PDGA play.

But what about fixing a disc? You know, if your disc sits out in the sun too long and warps, gets smashed in the suitcase, or hits an unfortunate tree and tacos? If you take the PDGA rule translation literally, then you cannot straighten out a taco'd disc. You would have to either throw the disc "as is" or throw it away. We also know that you can use your standard conventional oven at low heat to fix a warped candy plastic disc, like if said disc sat in the sun or was bent during travel.

As well, it is common amongst candy discs to have an overspill plastic edge on the bottom of the bead, this is very sharp but will rub off after a few skips off of pavement. You can speed up the process by taking a jack knife and taking off this excess plastic. This is not illegal because that small overflow is a by-product of the molding process.

Now, what about domey vs flat discs? Most manufacturers do not intend on their discs to come out with varied tops. The varied top is due to the cooling process and its variables such as time, temperature, and humidity.

If a manufacturer intended on the design of the disc to be flat, and hence some disc came out domey (adversly effecting their stability ie Stable becomes unstable and visa versa). Following the above interpretations of the rules, would it not be legal to return this disc to the manufacturers intended state, such as making something that turned out domey and fixing it so that it is flat?

Personally, I would not only like to hear from the players, but also from the people who have a say in the matter, like Keith Murray, Dave Dunnipace, Chuck Kennedy, John Houck, and even other members of the PDGA rules committee. What is the concensus on this?

FYI, said disc in question, once restored to original intent has no superior/different flight characteristics then standard production models.

I don't have any official status from which to comment. The one question we've had come up has to do with whether it's legal to roughen an area on the top of candy (or any) plastic so you can get a better grip where your thumb goes? I say 'yes' but I suspect some on the Rules Committee might object.

As far as I am concerned, if you do anything to return the disc to its original (or intended) condition, no problem. The exception would be cracked discs. I believe the rules specifically prohibit repairs of this sort. Repairs of jagged edges, tacos, nose bends, warps, etc. are okay. Excessive sanding may not be, especially if it takes the disc out of compliance with PDGA specs. If the bottom edge is sanded such that the disc is no longer tall enough on the vertical portion of the rim and it did not meet the 5% minimum, it would be out of compliance. If the nose was excessively sanded such that the disc is no longer 21.0 centimeter minimum, it would be out of compliance. This is my opinion, not necessarily PDGA opinion.

I do remember watching Brent Hambrick repair a roc that had a nasty chunk taken out of it. All I can say is that it involved a donor disc, an exacto blade, fire, and a golf towel. ;)

I had punctured a dx valk a while back, and repaired it with a soldering iron and two round, inch wide (and veryvery thin) nickle plates from work. It took a bit of time, but heating the plates up with the iron and keeping it moving allowed the plastic to form back, and quite honestly, it looks like a stain more than anything. Absolutely no sign of any puncture. I don't use it anyway, but it can be done.

802.01 DISCS USED IN PLAY
C. Players may not make post-production modification of discs which alter their original flight characteristics.



I think the operative phrase is original flight characteristics. Repairing a warped disc is returning it, as much as is possible, to its original flight charecteristics. Therefore, it is not in violation of the rule.

However, taking a domey disc and intentionally flattening the dome to make it more stable would be illegal.

However, taking a domey disc and intentionally flattening the dome to make it more stable would be illegal.



Again, only if said disc was designed with a dome. Correct? That is how I read your comment. So a disc designed flat, which after molding developed a dome. It would not be illegal to flatten it. Because that would be restoring it to its intended original condition.

Ok let me restate. Taking a disc that was domey from the factory and flattening the dome would be illegal. i.e. making a 3rd or 4th run CE Valk and trying to make it fly like a 2nd run Valk.

Yes I agree, but if that disc was designed/intended to be flat by the factory, but it ended up domey. And all prior and subsquential runs are designed to be flat, but a precentage comes out domey due to variable cooling conditions. Does THIS still apply to the disc altering rules and hence make it illegal?

Original flight characteristics are the ones it had when it left the factory. Not the ones the designers intended. Strictly speaking, correcting what you see as a factory defect because it isn't like the other 3 you own would be against the rules. But if you have three with no dome, would you be more likely to be accused of altering the one that was different if you did nothing, or of altering one of the four identical ones ?

I do remember watching Brent Hambrick repair a roc that had a nasty chunk taken out of it. All I can say is that it involved a donor disc, an exacto blade, fire, and a golf towel. ;)



So would an action like this be considered illegal? What about if there were no donor disc but simply heating the disc to replace the dent in your disc after striking a sharp edge on a metal pole. Of course, this is strictly theoretical :D.

Possibly you'd have to look up the exact rule in PDGA rule book.

I would personally say that melting a disc to help to bring it back to more of a factory configuration is OK.

I had a HUGE gouge taken off a Flick with a razor blade last week. Now there's a big hunk missing, but it's better than having a flap flapping around the disc during throw, so I consider that legal, even tho it's more than just sanding.

As far as de-doming a disc, that's a grey area. I think the excuse that "other discs of that mold are less domey" is not going to fly with some people. Now if the disc was flatter, then somehow got more domey due to sun/whatever, then I guess you can make a case for de-doming a disc. However, you could easily ruin the disc.

Related to this is the strategy of bending up the lip to make a disc more stable. As time goes on, tree hits and 'tacos' tend to push the lip down, making the disc less stable. Pushing the lip back up makes it sorta more like the disc was when you bought it, so I am generally in favor of that. The problem is a beat disc with the lip pushed up tends to "S" more than the new disc, so it isn't quite the same as the original, is it?

I would LOVE to be able to push the lip down on discs to make the discs less stable so us old fogeys could flip them. But I think that would certainly be a rules violation (the spirit of the rules anyway). So instead I have to wait for the manufacturers to get so old that they start making discs for old farts.

I personally would like to entertain changing the rule so that a player can make any modification he wants to to a disc, as long as it conforms to PDGA standard. Maybe just a trial period to see how it works out.

I believe that you can bend the lip of your disc as much or as often as you want. I don't believe that is a post-production modification any more than gripping harder is a post-production modification. It is what is intended to be done with plastic flying discs and has been done with them ever since they have been made.

I remember in the old dx days and I think the rule was basically the same. Anyways, little gashes and such in dx discs were easily fixed with a lighter. Some people considered it a rule violation, so people would hide in the bushes to fire up their plastic. I was always under the impression that that practice was still questionable (even though I still do it) until I saw the article on disc tuning. If that is OK, then I figure I can take a lighter to my discs in public now. :D

Original flight characteristics are the ones it had when it left the factory. Not the ones the designers intended.


This is well said, if it was the fact we could change them to the intended product, the Epic may have had a chance. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

On a somewhat related note...I have a 10x KC Roc that was my baby. It got a gash in the top plate about an inch and a half long. Is there any way to fix this? I've heard rumors about candle wax and the like but it sounds kinda fishy. Is there any legit way to get my baby back in action?

Hell if it is supposed to be "original flight characteristics" then it would be illegal to tune your discs.

Hell if it is supposed to be "original flight characteristics" then it would be illegal to tune your discs.


You know that is a cruel, yet very legitimate point. Also it would seem illegal to throw any shot which results in taco'ing a disc. Heck, I guess we can't hit trees either, and be careful not to land too hard!

802.01 DISCS USED IN PLAY
C. Players may not make post-production modification of discs which alter their original flight characteristics. This rule does not forbid inevitable wear and tear from usage during play or the moderate sanding of discs to smooth molding imperfections or scrape marks. Discs excessively sanded or painted with a material of detectable thickness are illegal. See sections 802.01 D, E and F.

So could we say that allows tuning also? I mean smacking a tree tunes a disc in a way. Either we adjust it back to the original flight characteristics or we smack another tree and bend it back. My post was meant in total sarcasm, but thanks for pointing out where I was obviously not understanding. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I have a disc which has a small thorn from a Yucca plant sticking through it at an angle. When I was playing doubles last week, I was told that this was an illegal disc. However, to me, this seems to be damage from normal usage and shouldn't make the disc illegal. What is the official stance on this?

A hole through the disc is a perforation. Perforated discs are illegal.

802.01.B B. A disc which is cracked or perforated is illegal.

Theres no hole until I pull out the thorn.

I would imagine that the thorn would be considered something added to the disc to alter its original flight path. Whether it was unintentional or not, it is not something that is a natural part of the disc. Obviously if a chunk was taken out of the disc, then there was nothing we could do about it.

Plus with the availablity of discs these days, I would just toss the punctured disc away, buy an new one and play lots of heavily wooded courses with it untill it beats into the desired turn you desire.

I can buy the argument that it is illegal because it is perforated, but not the fact that it has been altered, unintentionally or not. The rule says "C. Players may not make post-production modification of discs which alter their original flight characteristics. This rule does not forbid inevitable wear and tear from usage during play or the moderate sanding of discs to smooth molding imperfections or scrape marks. "
This is inevitable wear and tear from usage.

The disc is still perforated, even if the thorn is filling up the perforation, I think.

If you get a small implement (I've used a butter knife, a trick I learned as a teenager while treating the ends of sewerpipe to fit together with a rubberized seal.) and heat it over a stove, you can soften, even melt, the plastic around the hole and squeeze it in such a way as to close the perforation.

With a light touch, it's impossible to tell that there ever even was a hole, or that there has been a repair.

I had a SM Roc I loved take a thorn at the Ozark course and called it perforated with the thorn in place. I carried it for the rest of the round without throwing it and laid a smoke on it between rounds for a second and it filled it up nicely. There was no perforation after and no discernable change in thickness so I threw it for 2 more years till it parted my company.