Mikey I've missed you. Personally, I was really looking forward to a new Competition Director with a penchant for diatriabes and blah blah blah, but maybe people like you and I weren't meant to work within larger groups made up of lap dogs and sycophants.

At any rate, looking forward to the 2005 MSDGC, which will make last year's event look like one of next year's new PDGA majors. Ha ha. Yeah, I'm still a royal pain in the butt. In other words, I have my own mind. Too bad so many other good minds have been sucked into that ratfaced Canadian vortex that so many misguided souls consider headquarters.

now wait just a minute there jason! how dare you say such nonsense about the PDGA! this is one of the best run organizations in the whole world! no one, and i mean it, no one could do better! that's why i decided not to run for the board this year, because i think the PDGA just can't do any better. i get giddy everytime i just say PDGA, that's how much i love this organization. PDGA! PDGA! PDGA!

wow, that sure was a good imitation of the PDGA BOD when they meet, wasn't it? talk about people that can't pat themselves on the back enough, hmmm? they even print full-page ads in the DGWN to suck up to each other these days. don't ya love it? i know i do! i love the PDGA! love it! if we didn't have the PDGA, what would we have? oh yeah, a few more $$ in our pockets. but i don't really need money, it grows on trees!

Jason,
Does this mean MSDGC won't be a pdga event for 2005? Or has a final decision not been made yet? I see it is still listed on their tour schedule

It looks like they made it a National Tour

Will there be an AM event at the same time as the NT?
Either way I'll be playing the NT, just was curious.


Last year there was a B tier in NY on this weekend, so no one from my area went to this tournament.They moved the tournament, so a bunch of us are planning on heading to the 05' MSDGC.

The 2005 msdgc has spots for 144 players, 72 Pros and 72 Ams -- four on a hole max. We are also guaranteeing a Pro payout of $15,000, NOT counting the $2,500 we'll be awarding on Friday skins. Already our fundraising efforts are paying off, and work on the new and improved Maple Hill course continues in spurts.

The price: $75 for Pros, $50 for Ams.

As far as our PDGA status, it's up in the air. Hoeniger has warned his delegates not to talk to me, so...I haven't talke to anyone yet. We'll see whether the next Competition Director has a mind of his own.

I will say this. If I were the PDGA, I'd definitely want this tournament on my schedule. As for us MSDGC guys, our question concerning PDGA sanctioning, "How will it improve our event?"

I sense a growing anti-PDGA backlash across the country, brought on by PDGA arrogance and authoritarianism. And it's a sad state of our national organization when one individual's bruised ego takes precedence over the health of the game.

I feel it's time for a new PDGA Executive Director.

so, the msdgc isn't definitely on the NT for 2005? :(

it really would be a shame if the PDGA can't swallow its hubris and put the MSDGC on the NT. jason, shoot me an e-mail and tell me what's up, you know how them PDGA boys hate public criticism! i'm surprised i'm still able to post here.

and don't count on the new Competition Director to be anything but a yes-man. just look at that full-page ad that calhoun took out in DGWN. if you look closely, you'll see Calhoun's right hand behind Brakel's back like he's working a puppet, and Brakel's hand is doing the same to Chapman.

COINCIDENCE???

The 2005 msdgc has spots for 144 players, 72 Pros and 72 Ams -- four on a hole max. We are also guaranteeing a Pro payout of $15,000, NOT counting the $2,500 we'll be awarding on Friday skins. Already our fundraising efforts are paying off, and work on the new and improved Maple Hill course continues in spurts.

The price: $75 for Pros, $50 for Ams.

As far as our PDGA status, it's up in the air. Hoeniger has warned his delegates not to talk to me, so...I haven't talke to anyone yet. We'll see whether the next Competition Director has a mind of his own.

I will say this. If I were the PDGA, I'd definitely want this tournament on my schedule. As for us MSDGC guys, our question concerning PDGA sanctioning, "How will it improve our event?"

I sense a growing anti-PDGA backlash across the country, brought on by PDGA arrogance and authoritarianism. And it's a sad state of our national organization when one individual's bruised ego takes precedence over the health of the game.

I feel it's time for a new PDGA Executive Director.



Sounds Awesome! I will be there if it's sanctioned or not.

One thing I'm wondering is that if those low entry fees are compatible with the NT standards for entry fees. It looks like you'll fill easily w/o sanctioning. Hope everything works out with the PDGA though, since this event should be a NT event.

Since it will probably fill early, when will Registration begin?

I will say this. If I were the PDGA, I'd definitely want this tournament on my schedule. As for us MSDGC guys, our question concerning PDGA sanctioning, "How will it improve our event?"


It depends on what you want out of the tournament. Obviously if you make it a sanctioned tournament, you'll bring in the top players from across the country to play your course. Also, you're payout and "quality of tournament" will be nationally noticed since the results will be published on the pdga website. If you're just looking to have a great tournament for the local guys, making it sanctioned probably wouldn't be the right thing. Personally I hope this tournament get sanctioned and hopefully at the NT level! I think this tournament has the right critiera to become the best NT of the year. I thought it was the best run tournament I went to last year outta the 35 I did attend ( other than USDGC which is in its own class ) and it was only a B tier. I will be there next year no matter what it ends up being!! If it get's sactioned I'm sure I can get a few more WI players to make the drive. :)

Pre-registration has already begun: http://www.marshallstreetdiscgolf.com/proddetail.asp?prod=msdgc%5Fregistration

Mikey uh oh tagteaming. I don't know any of these guys running for PDGA office, but that's a funny image.

Chris Heeren, thank you for your ongoing support. We're attempting to usher in a new paradigm, and to be as cryptic as possible when asked about our NT status. Actually, we don't know anything about it.

Luke Butch yeah baby. See you here for the first time end of August I sincerely hope.

As far as our PDGA status, it's up in the air. Hoeniger has warned his delegates not to talk to me, so...I haven't talke to anyone yet. We'll see whether the next Competition Director has a mind of his own.

I will say this. If I were the PDGA, I'd definitely want this tournament on my schedule. As for us MSDGC guys, our question concerning PDGA sanctioning, "How will it improve our event?"

I sense a growing anti-PDGA backlash across the country, brought on by PDGA arrogance and authoritarianism. And it's a sad state of our national organization when one individual's bruised ego takes precedence over the health of the game.

I feel it's time for a new PDGA Executive Director.



Hmm. I guess no one bothered to check the currently published 2005 PDGA National Tour schedule:

2005 National Tour Schedule (http://www.pdga.com/schedule/search_results.php?search=Search&tier=NT&startDate =2005-01-01)

It's a shame that the organizers of this event, while still coordinating with the PDGA, are bashing the organization publicly. I'm not sure who that helps. I'd prefer to see us working cooperatively on producing the best Tour possible.

Theo Pozzy
PDGA Commissioner

Chris, you were there last year...I think that even if this weren't a pdga sanctioned event, the top pros would travel to it. Last year, 1st place's money was better than almost all of the national event's last year and the MSDGC was a "b tier".

I think people will flock to this tournament because of the brilliantly way it is run, the hospitality of the tournament directors to the players, the great courses, and the HUGE payout. (and I didn't even mention the skins, camping, free dinner, poolball, etc.)

Having said that, I do hope it is a pdga tournament as well...but it doesn't really matter, I'll be there anyway and I can't imagine someone not coming because it's not pdga (especially if you've already been there to know what its' about).

Well for the touring pros, most of them are looking to get their pdga winnings up ( points/money ) so not making it a pdga event would mean not increasing their $$. I know what the tournament was like since I went last year, I'll be there for sure! But other people who haven't been their yet would be hard to convice to go that far for an unsanctioned event.

Theo, with all due respect, you're talking out your butt. The PDGA put us on the schedule without asking us whether we wanted to be on the schedule. And although it sounds and feels a little weird to say, I'm still the tournament director. Listing my friend Steve Dodge as the tourney contact is yet another pathetic attempt by Hoeniger to interfere with our event.

The PDGA doesn't want the best National Tour at the expense of its precious authority, embodied in its extra tournament rules. It would rather extort TDs into falling in line. The whole PDGA tone toward TDs the past few years is "take it or leave it." We have an answer for that kind of arrogance.

And our focus here at Marshall Street is not the best possible tour, just the best possible event, and we don't appreciate it when the PDGA, in its infintesimal wisdom, tries to mess with us.

Besides, if we're not sanctioned you can't call this year to have us notify suspended players of their suspensions.

My advice to you Theo: Wake up or go back to bed.

You act like the PDGA is enforcing 1984 Orwellian controls over their membership and their tournaments. All they ask is that people not drink alcohol WHILE COMPETING IN AN ORGANIZED SPORTING EVENT!!! All they asked for is that you deliver a message to a player traveling on tour for which they had absolutely no contact info. That you disagreed with the PDGA's decision to suspend a player with a long, long history of disciplinary infractions is no matter - all they asked is that you just deliver the message.

Why is this too much to ask for?

ok kids, let's play nice :)

theo, i don't think what anyone said here is bashing. i do think the PDGA takes itself way too seriously in what appears to me is its attempt to make its tour too much like the ball golf tours. come on, we'll never be as uppity as country club ball golfers, and should remember where this sports roots are---a bunch of free-spirited anti-establishment hippie types.

while i respect the time donated to the sport by all board members past and present, that doesn't mean they should continue to ignore the TD's like southwick, orum, and himing who would simply like to be treated with a modicum of respect from pdga staff and board members for one thing and to be able to run their events as they see fit for another. is the pdga is truly happy that NEFA, SN, and Texas 10 hold tournaments that have hundreds of players yet are unsanctioned by the pdga? i really think that the pdga has adopted the attitude that jason refers to as "take us or leave us" and more and more TDs and potential members are choosing the latter.

and should remember where this sports roots are---a bunch of free-spirited anti-establishment hippie types



Times are changing though.

If it is a NT event then it has to follow the guidelines that the PDGA sets forth. This is even if the TD doesn't agree about the no drinking policy.

I also think it is pathetic that people can't go 2 hours without having a beer.

what if ball golf stayed true to its roots? the pga tour wouldnt exist and anyone who played the sport would be a kilt-wearing scotsman whacking the ball with a wooden club.

times change, things change. I don't see a problem with the pdga trying to establish a higher standard for the sport. I *do* see a problem with the BOD acting as a hardlined regime who rely too heavily on the "take us or leave us" mentality though. Even if their vision is what's best for the sport (and I'm not saying it is), they missed an important life lesson along the way which tells you that you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. They should try truly working WITH the td's and the membership (as opposed to just saying they do) to realize their vision: not force it upon everyone and then wonder why it is that people like jason are disgruntled. In my opinion they deserve any backlash that may come from their decisions. Do they feel the MSDGC would be hindered if it wasn't sanctioned, or other events for that matter? Look around at how many successful NON-sanctioned events go on out there. MSDGC 2005 *will* fill, NT or not, sanctioned or not, and it *will* be a fantastic event. In my opinion it's the PDGA that stands to lose this battle (in general, I'm not just referring to their headbutting with jason) if they continue their tack on the matter.

Is the only thing they are headbutting on is the drinking during rounds issue or are there more things?

Jason....At the risk of whipping an expired thoroughbred, would you be willing to list (or direct me to a prior post with a list) what specific PDGA NT rules you have a problem with? I understand you have philosophical issues that probably can't be easily addressed. However, maybe there is a way that the PDGA and rebellious TD's with their own preferences can at least arrive at some kind of compromise with respect to the rules that these TD's find problematic. It would best serve the PDGA, TD's, potential or real sponsors, and the disc community if events like the MSDGC were on the same page with the PDGA. I can't imagine that the real tangible issues (not the philosophical ones) are so important that some kind of compromise can't be reached.

On another note, Jason, we should talk and come up with some kind of dangling carrot that offers incentive for players to attend both your event and our "Skylands Classic at Warwick" NT event the weekend prior to yours. Maybe we could each kick in some kind of sponsorship $$$ for the player(s) whose combined finish at the 2 events is best, for example?? Let's talk....

Dan Doyle
Warwick, NY

This misconception that the current BOD has a "take-it-or-leave-it" attitude is disheartening, to say the least. Unfortunately, there's no easy way to dispel that myth without giving those people more ammunition.

Since I have been on the board (over three years now), I have been working hard to work cooperatively with TDs at all levels. It's been a challenge to try and create a National Tour with initial requirements from from what was a failed marketing effort, and then keep a certain level of consistency and continuity, while addressing a lot of other priorities.

This year, we are working as a group to make life easier on the event directors and staff, and are trying to relax some of our policies in order to retain our biggest and most important group of volunteers. We are trying to provide more flexibility, but while retaining tour standards that I think in general have been favorably received.

From my perspective, it doesn't seem like a "take it or leave it" approach. If there's anything (within reason) we can do to help communicate that better, please let me know.

Theo Pozzy
PDGA Commissioner

I am in, registered 2 day

well, i don't want to speak for the texas 10 or its remarkable TD, but i'm willing to bet that since the texas 10 is sponsored by a beer company, and the pdga has adopted a policy that some people interpret as too strict in regards to alcohol consumption by amateur players on weekends (when people like to drink beer to unwind), i'm willing to bet that might be a big reason why the Texas 10 events are mostly unsanctioned by the PDGA.

or it could be the money :D

or it could be both :D


i would perhaps support banning pros from drinking during rounds, and of course giving TDs the option to ban alcohol from any event. but to deny a frosty beer to some casual hack golfer who's out there playing with his friends in novice (or the lower division of am masters :D ) is simply NO FUN! and if you remove fun from the sport you might not get those casual hacks to come play and enjoy the great sport of disc golf!

just because disc golf has 1,000 people in its Hall of Fame who no one has ever heard of doesn't mean that the biggest organization in the sport (the PDGA) is big enough to be discouraging anyone from playing! dangit guru, if you drew more fees from these players they could give you an even bigger raise than the one you think you deserve! :cool:

Wait, it's not an issue of drinking Jeff (THAT's a different issue, the reason why Pyramids 17 won't be a C Tier.) The 2005 msdgc will be strictly no beer during rounds. Our reasoning: It was really hot, New England weather tends to be the same year to year, people would get too drunk and loud and it's too serious for that, and...we'll have other, tasty, non-alcoholic stuff to drink.

It's not a beer issue. It's a dress code, stoopid PDGA Marshals, interference, imposing, the fact that the PDGA is a bunch of goofballs if they think I'm going to listen to them, and heck with the PDGA in general for taking such a superior tone issue. You've never even been here. You have no idea. I don't care how other TDs do it. And rules? I don't care for any rules besides the rules of play, which are sacred. All else is, well, sorry, up to us. You just tell us how much in greenbacks and WE'LL decide from there. Yeah, since it's a fact that disc golf grew out of a different ethos and at a different time than ball gold, it would make sense that disc golf's growth would follow a different path, but noooooooooo. Let's follow the growth of disc golf. Force it even.

Not you Theo. Let me see..who am I thinking about. Can't focus...medication must...be...off.

There. I only have this one prayer: Lord, please let the PDGA be as stoopid as it really is, and not let us be an NT because I'm a big fathead and the PDGA is a big fathead, and we can be the biggest sumptim sumptin then anyway.

And Lord, one more thing, the most important thing really, all other words merely hype and cybertribe: 144 players.

hey jason you've got to stop getting drunk before you post :)

even i can't figure out where you're going with that post ;)

just kidding. it's obvious you were trying to say, "please people write in lagrassa on your pdga ballots so that we'll have someone who knows it all on the b.o.d." :D

I don't want the job either, Mikey. And contrary to popular belief, I don't think I know it all. But I do know that you guys need to get over Brian Hoeniger. I've met the guy and I'll admit he's no bundle of joy but it's not worth abandoning the PDGA over. In their heart of hearts, Brian and everybody on the BOD has the good of the sport in mind. These are only a few (common sense!) rules, and if they're that unbearable, run the MSDGC unsanctioned - the tourny can stand on its own without PDGA sanctioning.

There are 5 potential issues that the MSDGC & PDGA are currently discussing. Our goal is create the best possible event. Avoiding impositions on this goal is paramount, and we feel that the following issues could cause impositions on us creating the best possible disc golf event. If the NT Agreement does not cause detriment to our event, we will be an NT event in 2005.

1. Entry Fee - We want to offer a high value for the dollar and encourage Regional Pros to participate. Our modest $75 entry fee will ensure that we get a full field, and with our minimum $15K payout, we will be offering a tremendous value. We feel the minimum payout rule is enough, while the fixed rate entry fee - in our case - hurts the player value of our event.

2. Marshalls - We are concerned with the quality and consistency of the marshall program and do not want to endanger the quality of our event to an over zealous PDGA Marshall. In our opinion, Marshalls exist to make passive rulings (ie, speak when spoken to, make a ruling when a player asks to have a rule clarified or to confirm a call. Otherwise, a marshall should make no comment or facial expression.) As we have four competent TDs, who can all make the hard calls and we are all comfortable with the other TDs decisions, we would like to not have PDGA Marshalls.

3. Dress Code - We would like this rule to be significantly relaxed. This is the most petty of our requests and I hope it does not become a sticking point. In our player's packages, we give a MS collared polo shirt, and are hoping to give Innova henleys. Both of these shirts should meet any dress code requirement, but we feel that encouraging and presenting an opportunity to wear a "nice" shirt is enough. Players should not be told what to wear, especially in a sport where comfort is important for success.

4. Media Rights - We would be okay with giving the PDGA 10% of profits (not 15% of gross sales) from the sale of the 2005 MSDGC DVD. The MSDGC DVD is currently a money losing proposition and any extra loss of income would make it harder to justify doing, which should be opposite of the PDGA's goal. Also, PDGA has rights to use footage for non-commercial, public relations purposes & PDGA has the right to approve footage in a preliminary copy of DVD and can only reject footage due to obscenity, profanity, alcohol around competition, any illegal drug use. If PDGA uses footage in a commercial, profit making venture, the 2005 MSDGC will be reimbursed with 10% of the profits.

5. We have decided that Jason should continue to be the front man and should be the person that the PDGA talks with directly. Joe and Steve are Co-TDs with Jason and will be included on all discussions/decisions.

I think I understand what Jason is trying to say. Maybe.

He would like to run his tournament his way. While other tournaments may need help in the form of a Marshall, he feels the MSDGC does not need one, and that a Marshall may be more of a hinderance than a help? He feels that the PDGA should set guidlines rather than rules regarding things that used to be up to the TD (shirts, entry fee, etc.).

Jason is also not the biggest fan of a certain PDGA Administrator. I think he might prefer dealing with someone else.

He'd also like to see Disc Golf not follow the path that Ball Golf did. Different era, different people and culture.

This is the version for those who attempted to decifer Jason's last post and had difficulties.

Luke that's some mighty good deciphering. Someone put a breathilizer on this keyboard.

Things are looking up, though, for those interested in precious PDGA Points and NT stripes and -- YES -- round ratings! Ah stop getting so excited we'll have those either way. But things are looking up! Amazing what one phone call can do.

With regard to the marshall issue at Marshall Street. Has any thought been given to one of the MSDGC staff answering John Chapman's call to become a marshall? They are specifically looking for a marshall or two in the northeast for 2005.

I can picture any member of the esteemed MSDGC staff being a marshall for the northeast and agreeing to "marshall" the MSDGC and perhaps the Skylands NT (the next most local NT event). Already on staff at MSDGC means they aren't an "outsider" causing discomfort for Jason and staff, but being an official marshall fulfills the NT requirement.

And what better way to prove their philosophy of what a marshall should do and be than to set the example first-hand at another NT event? I see it as a win-win situation that could do wonders for future co-operations between the two parties. :D

--Josh

and don't count on the new Competition Director to be anything but a yes-man. just look at that full-page ad that calhoun took out in DGWN. if you look closely, you'll see Calhoun's right hand behind Brakel's back like he's working a puppet, and Brakel's hand is doing the same to Chapman.

COINCIDENCE???

I'd respond but Terry has not told me what to say yet. When I do have something to say, don't go staring at Terry's lips. That spoils the effect.

I'm frankly surprised the editor of DGWN let that picture run. I'm the prettiest one in the picture, and that's truly a sad state of affairs for that to be true. Perhaps any farmers can use that picture to scare away crows.

Chap

Josh that's a good idea. What does it take to become a PDGA Marshal?

This was the original post about the PDGA Marshall position, posted over a year ago under the PDGA announcements topic.


Welcome to the new PDGA Operations Marshal program! The Operations Marshal program was introduced for the 2004 season, to increase the PDGA presence and support of its key tour events, and to reduce the Host�s burden when sanctioning their event with the PDGA. We hope this program will help each event realize its potential.

The Marshal program will be applied to all PDGA Major and NT events, and select SuperTour stops. The PDGA Operations Marshal�s main responsibilities will be to promote the PDGA through on-site marketing and merchandising, to accept lead responsibility for PDGA Rules enforcement, to assist the event Host with PDGA membership and on-line scoring needs, and to provide short stories and photos for immediate use on the PDGA website(s).

The PDGA Operations Marshal program is looking for a few good people, men and women alike! We intend to extend contracts with six (6) to eight (8) independent Operations Marshals located regionally throughout the USA. Highly desirable qualifications include:
� Current Amateur or Professional member in good standing with the PDGA with at least three (3) years of PDGA membership
� Registered PDGA Official. Retesting on PDGA rules and their interpretations will be required prior to acceptance into the program
� Past experience in running high level PDGA sanctioned events
� Computer literacy in Windows, MS Excel and Internet Explorer
� Availability to cover at least three (3) key PDGA sanctioned events in their home regional area. Willingness to drive personal vehicle up to 300 miles each way to/from PDGA sanctioned event(s) under mileage reimbursement
� Strong ability in creative writing and basic photography skills.
The PDGA Operations Marshal program will be used at all PDGA Major and NT events, and selected early year PDGA SuperTour events.

If you are interested in joining the PDGA Operations Marshal program for the 2004 season, send an email to the PDGA Competition Director at Competition@pdga.com with your disc golf resume, ideally by 1 January 2004. We look forward to considering you for exciting new program!

I think Jason is hopped up on goofballs again. Type in the morning buddy, it's when you do your best work, unless you're playing DDC then you're wicked good around dusk...I'll send my money in as soon as i can come up with $75. Anyone wanna sponsor me? :-D

There are 5 potential issues that the MSDGC & PDGA are currently discussing. Our goal is create the best possible event. Avoiding impositions on this goal is paramount, and we feel that the following issues could cause impositions on us creating the best possible disc golf event. If the NT Agreement does not cause detriment to our event, we will be an NT event in 2005.

1. Entry Fee - We want to offer a high value for the dollar and encourage Regional Pros to participate. Our modest $75 entry fee will ensure that we get a full field, and with our minimum $15K payout, we will be offering a tremendous value. We feel the minimum payout rule is enough, while the fixed rate entry fee - in our case - hurts the player value of our event.

2. Marshalls - We are concerned with the quality and consistency of the marshall program and do not want to endanger the quality of our event to an over zealous PDGA Marshall. In our opinion, Marshalls exist to make passive rulings (ie, speak when spoken to, make a ruling when a player asks to have a rule clarified or to confirm a call. Otherwise, a marshall should make no comment or facial expression.) As we have four competent TDs, who can all make the hard calls and we are all comfortable with the other TDs decisions, we would like to not have PDGA Marshalls.

3. Dress Code - We would like this rule to be significantly relaxed. This is the most petty of our requests and I hope it does not become a sticking point. In our player's packages, we give a MS collared polo shirt, and are hoping to give Innova henleys. Both of these shirts should meet any dress code requirement, but we feel that encouraging and presenting an opportunity to wear a "nice" shirt is enough. Players should not be told what to wear, especially in a sport where comfort is important for success.

4. Media Rights - We would be okay with giving the PDGA 10% of profits (not 15% of gross sales) from the sale of the 2005 MSDGC DVD. The MSDGC DVD is currently a money losing proposition and any extra loss of income would make it harder to justify doing, which should be opposite of the PDGA's goal. Also, PDGA has rights to use footage for non-commercial, public relations purposes & PDGA has the right to approve footage in a preliminary copy of DVD and can only reject footage due to obscenity, profanity, alcohol around competition, any illegal drug use. If PDGA uses footage in a commercial, profit making venture, the 2005 MSDGC will be reimbursed with 10% of the profits.

5. We have decided that Jason should continue to be the front man and should be the person that the PDGA talks with directly. Joe and Steve are Co-TDs with Jason and will be included on all discussions/decisions.



Steve,

Thank you for detailing in line items the most important issues regarding the MSDGC and the NT agreements. It's much easier to get to the bottom of the issues when you present them concisely as you have done so, as compared to the vague statements and name-calling (i.e. "PDGA is a bunch of goofballs") that was presented before.

#1) Of all the issues, I agree with the MSDGC the most on this one. The fixed rate entry fee was instituted presumably to guarantee a high minimum payout at every NT event. However, if that minimum payout can be reached through extensive sponsorship, there is no reason that an event cannot charge lower entry fees if they choose. Furthermore, I think I represent a large population of the local fan base who would attend the event for the MSDGC's preferred $75 entry fee and might not otherwise attend the event if the standard (and overpriced) $125 fee is enforced.

#2) I am most suspicious of the MSDGC's stance on this one. To me, it seems like the MSDGC is afraid of a PDGA Marshall observing PDGA rules not being followed, and existing TDs failing to call these violations and enforce them. I am confident that the MSDGC is run with the utmost of professionalism and therefore should have nothing to hide, and should not protest a Marshall's presence.

#3) Every professional sport in the world has a dress code. It seems very odd to me that the MSDGC would give out collared shorts in the player's package yet would balk at enforcing thier wear. That some may complain that collared shorts are not comfortable and that comfort is important for success is not plausible.

#2) I am most suspicious of the MSDGC's stance on this one. To me, it seems like the MSDGC is afraid of a PDGA Marshall observing PDGA rules not being followed, and existing TDs failing to call these violations and enforce them. I am confident that the MSDGC is run with the utmost of professionalism and therefore should have nothing to hide, and should not protest a Marshall's presence.
----------------
Marshalls cannot be everywhere all the time. Therefore, at best, the calls that a Marshall makes will be inconsistent across the tournament. When you pile on the fact that the Marshalls program is new and under staffed (and yes, I too am interested in becoming a "PDGA Marshall" for our event) then you are creating a significant possibility of incorrect inconsistent calls. I can definitely understand out desire to avoid this situation.

-------------
#3) Every professional sport in the world has a dress code. It seems very odd to me that the MSDGC would give out collared shorts in the player's package yet would balk at enforcing thier wear. That some may complain that collared shorts are not comfortable and that comfort is important for success is not plausible.
-----------------
Four words:
Dress Code? Frisbee Golf?

Huh? Just like the Washington Post, if you don't get it, you don't get it - you goofball!

I guess you're right Steve, I just don't get it. To me, this isn't Frisbee golf any more. This is Professional Disc Golf. A National Tour Event. Tournament play in its highest form.

The sport is evolving. Don't get left behind.

Well for the touring pros, most of them are looking to get their pdga winnings up ( points/money )



What in the world does a touring pro care about their pdga winnings (points/money)?

Winnings are winnings. Points are meaningless to touring pros, are they not?

What am I missing?

With $1000 going to the top points earner on the National Tour and a total of $5000 at stake, I'm thinking there might be a few touring pros who care.
http://www.pdgatour.com/points.php

With $1000 going to the top points earner on the National Tour and a total of $5000 at stake, I'm thinking there might be a few touring pros who care.
http://www.pdgatour.com/points.php



um, that's NT points and money, not PDGA points and money. If this event doesn't sanction, then that's just one less NT. Nobody is losing any NT points or money.

If there's not an NT on your weekend (which presumably there isn't for this year for this tournament), then why would a TOURING PRO give a hoot whether your tournament is sanctioned?

Oh and by the way, with the silly way that NT points are calculated (e.g. counting only a certain number of events), the touring pro can easily skip some NTs and not jeopardize getting a full load of points. Any possible loss in NT money could easily be made up with the generous payout of this tournament, if there were a competing NT on the same weekend, which there isn't.

Jeff,
I don't think you can accuse steve of "getting left behind" in our sport. If anything, he is a front runner in our sport. Just go to the tournament and see for yourself. They know what they're doing..leave it at that.

As a touring pro, I can get a bonus from Innova if I finish the year leading in Points.
But I am coming anyway.

> and don't count on the new Competition Director to be anything
> but a yes-man. just look at that full-page ad that calhoun took out
> in DGWN. if you look closely, you'll see Calhoun's right hand
> behind Brakel's back like he's working a puppet, and Brakel's
> hand is doing the same to Chapman.

Ah, Mikey, you are so much fun to have around sometimes :)

The thought of anyone working Brakel as a puppet is hilarious. There are those who think his middle initials are "LC" as in Bruce "Loose Cannon" Brakel! (Well, I made that up - but you can get the point.)

As for Chapman, I do believe that both Bruce and I had met John for the first time only moments before that serendipitous photograph and I personally would not want to try to physically move such a mountain of a man in any way, for any reason.

There are no "yes-men" on the board and I hope there never are. What there are, instead, are smart, experienced, mature people who are willing to spend a ton of time doing some difficult work and having lots of difficult discussions on behalf of the PDGA and disc golf. We argue to the point that it might scare you to be around listening, but we also know how to compromise, to occasionally let go of paranoia, and to disengage from an argument while retaining respect for each other, even when no one got "his way."

That's the kind of people we need on the board and, thank goodness, that's the kind we have.

Ron,

Last year's purse at the MSDGC was $13,245, with a pro purse of $11,980. That's not chump change. Clearly that tournament and their organizers know what they are doing.

But we're a professional organization with a National Tour. Any "frisbee golf" label or sentiment on this type of event is behind the times. Name me a sport whose premier professional tour doesn't set national standards, especially those on uniforms or dress codes. The sport is evolving to the next level, and an increase in professionalism is necessary to accompany it.

schweb! long time no see. i thought you weren't going to tour after the wedding...glad to see you rule the roost. :cool:

wow, that's 4 board members who've posted to this thread now. when money talks, the BOD listens :p

terry, i really am fun to be around sometimes. glad ya'll can take a joke sometimes :)

I will be out again this year, slightly more locally. but full time

I understand your point Jeff, but I'm not in the mood for debating. In all honesty, just go to the tournament and I'm sure a lot of these complaints/concerns you have will vanish when you experience this tournament. Like I've said before and heard many other long time pros say the same thing...there is no tournament that compares to this on the tour (with the exception of the usdgc).

I'm not sure what you're getting at Ron, or what you think my perception of the MSDGC is...I already *know* that the tournament is one of the best out there. I've heard the testimonies from people both personally and online. I'm planning to attend the tournament next year.

I don't know what we are even arguing about, except maybe some of the NT stipulations. While I support the idea of uniform NT standards, I agree 100% with the MSDGC that as long as a minimum purse is reached, a minimum entry fee seems unnecessary and entirely illogical. If sponsorship alone can reach the purse goals, they should be able to charge a $20 entry fee if they wanted to.

And when it comes to NT dress codes, I'm all for professionalism and the wearing of collared shirts. This is not even remotely an "oppressive" or even borderline unreasonable request. We already wear them at Worlds and the USDGC. I have felt this way for a very long time - that the evolution of the sport is partly, but directly, tied to our image. There's no way that I'll attend the MSDGC next August and think, "Boy, this tournament is the greatest I've ever attended, so therefore the wearing of collared shirts should not be enforced." Not gonna happen.

I think my MSDGC quote last year was:
"This is what I want to be doing EVERY weekend!"
I hope the involved parties can work it out as Marshall Street is a needed template for the entire A and NT tours.
The thing is, just like player behavior, people love to talk about so and so, but fail to make the tough call or report behaviors to the ones that can do something about it.
The ever-rotating board this time around is full of amateur disc golfers, and real life professionals. They all bring something to the table and work with the knowledge they have. Marshall Street brings up some valid points about our competition structure. BUT, the PDGA cannot act on things they perceive as one persons opinion.
A great example is entry fees: throughout the year I heard a lot of people majorly complaining about high entries. The PDGA board is only at a handful of tournaments, sure they can see attendance decline from the paperwork, but it is the feedback that allows them to respond.
(No one likes unbridled criticism, but feedback with purpose or suggestions help shape things)
Marshall Street, with many NEFA members has heard this calling and knows that $125 NT fees suck. High entries are stunting our competition base and allowing crappy tournaments to hide behind entry fees to make up the purse.
Collared Shirts, a lot of flack last year. The influential people spoke up and this year nice looking performance wear is allowed. The PDGA just needs quality feedback.
We all want the sport to reach new heights, be proactive and do your part. Marshall Street has a great product that will survive in colors without the PDGA, but as "OUR" player run organization we need to take control of our own destiny.
Funny, all these BOD, so-called "jerks" are running unapposed in this year's election. Even if we had options, only 13% would vote anyway :mad:.
Put some ideas together and start some real discussions, the rest becomes mamby pamby :D
I hope the PDGA works with these great fellas and actually learns some things from them.
I hope Marshall Street and the rest of the players give the PDGA the proper feedback so that they may follow our group guidance.
6,000 players hate the 2 meter rule
6,000 players love the 2 meter rule
Who does the board side with. Not the ********, whining group, but the constructive, proactive group.
Check the Piney Woods thread for economic impact study on a first time B-Tier. We are stronger than you think! Get active.
Marshall Street Rocks!

Jason and I have run through the entire 2005 MSDGC site and it is ready for general dissemination.

There are a couple of new things this year, in addition to the standard silly antics. In particular, enjoy the creation of The Bounty, the Thursday Skins Qualifier, and watch for the coming Affiliate tournaments.

We've got six folks signed up already and we are shooting to become the first tournament to fill nine months early - so come on down and watch us put out some good old fashioned New England hospitality.

Oh yeah, the website address is, confusingly enough:

http://www.msdgc.com

Yo Jay - we are going to make you proud this year, and after Jason's last post about great conversations with Chapman and Gentry (the Competition Director and Tour Director), discussions are definitely headed in a positve direction. Hopefully we can all continue to work together, make the MSDGC even better, add a great event to the NT, and make disc golf gosh darn attractive to even more sponsors.

December 16, 2004

Attention
Steve Dodge #22042
Jason Southwick #5893

Please be advised as follows:

Per the recent discussions between yourselves and the PDGA, and in view of the recent and historical posts made by Jason Southwick at the PDGA and NEFA discussion boards, the PDGA has determined the following:

The PDGA is prepared to sanction the Marshall Street DG Championships as a 2005 National Tour event, subject to the following:

Jason Southwick's status as a PDGA certified official has been revoked. As such he may not serve as a PDGA TD, Assistant TD, or certified official until such time as this decision may be rescinded. Should Jason wish to appeal this decision, he may do so in writing to the PDGA Commissioner.

Steve Dodge must sign the 2005 National Tour Agreement, keeping in mind that the PDGA has addressed all of the other outstanding issues in the agreement, including the use of a marshal, dress code, media rights, and entry fees.

In view of these considerations, please advise the PDGA if you are still intent on sanctioning the 2005 Marshall Street DG Championships at the National Tour or any other PDGA Tour event tier level. Please note that should we not receive confirmation from you by Monday December 20, the event will be removed from the 2005 PDGA National Tour calendar.

Please also be advised that Jason is now on the verge of facing further disciplinary action by the PDGA under Article 10, Section 1 of the Constitution for bringing the association, its staff, and volunteers into public disrepute and thereby "working against the principles of the PDGA, or injuring the good standing of another Active or Supporting member." Should the PDGA read or otherwise learn of any further inflammatory posts or comments made by Jason, the PDGA will have no choice but to move forward
with disciplinary process against him. We urge Jason to consider the seriousness of this situation and to determine whether he wishes to maintain the privileges of PDGA membership, including the ability to participate in any and all PDGA sanctioned events.

In closing, we acknowledge that the PDGA is not perfect and give you our assurance that its leadership welcomes constructive, well presented criticism. However it will not tolerate the type of destructive and highly inflammatory remarks made in public by one of its members, as Jason has chosen to make repeatedly over the past year. Please also note that the PDGA does not have the desire or the intent to hold a monopoly on large well-run disc golf events, and thus we wish you nothing but success with future editions of the Marshall Street DG Championships, whether they are PDGA sanctioned or not, as such events and related efforts contribute positively to the continued growth and evolution of the sport we all love.

Brian Hoeniger
PDGA Executive Director

*****************************************

Now I'll admit I was taken aback by the serious tone of this missive, but I'm happy with what it says. I WOULD like the 2005 to be a PDGA NT. Ron Turner and Chris Heeren and others would like that. And I accept my punishment of not being a certified PDGA Official, and not being the TD or Co-TD at next year's MSDGC. I never do anything but sit around and get drunk during the tournament anyway.

As for being on the verge, well whoah there small group of teleconferencers, I'm a secret admirer of the PDGA. My comments don't always come across as real friendly, but my fundamental beliefs tell me hey, if I'm a member, I also have a voice. Didn't know there were so many rules about the voice part. I will admit many of my remarks were unnecessarily hostile, and there were a couple adjectives I wish I had back.

I recently had conversations with David Gentry the PDGA Tour Director (Manager?) and John Chapmin and it all seemed fine. Steve and Lick and Kelley, the TDs, are okay with whatever dress code you guys come up with, and we're looking forward to showing the Marshal a good time. (We don't know who it'll be yet.)

So I'm duly chastised, and I know that my own actions put me in this odd position, and there's no reason to pick sides, cause I'm waving the white flag, wearing the dunce cap, and I have $55 for the PDGA if they'll have me in the new year.

And to Brian Hoeniger, no free MSDGC DVD for you.

Jason Southwick
NEFA President

There is a whole lot of kissing up happening on this thread.

Wow. I can't say that I'm too suprised. I wonder if the same thing would have happened if this conversation was carried out on a message board other than this one? It did mention below the NEFA and the PDGA board, which make me wonder how much the PDGA monitors different discussion boards. :confused: Suprised at the 4 days they are giving you guys only a few days to make a decision. Sad situation.

Here's the summary:

PDGA - For Mashall Street to be an NT:
-Jason must give up being an certified official, an assistant TD, or the main TD
-Steve must sign the NT agreement and adhere to it's policies
-Steve must declare if it will be an NT by 12/20/04
General:
-Jason may be under further disciplinary action from the PDGA
-PDGA will not tolerate negative public remarks, and suggests positive feedback instead of negative comments.

Jason :
-Wants it to be an NT in 05
-Will give in to demands made of him
-I Said some things I would like back, but I felt most were public feedback that I, as a member, could make.
-Talked with some PDGA people recently and was making good headway here.
-I give up and hope to be a member next year.

How was my Summary?

Pretty good summary. I'm pretty sure most touring pro's would go this year even if it wasn't an NT event. It doesn't matter to me one bit if this event gets sanctioned or not. I see it silly to ban Jason from being a TD, or even assistent TD at his very own tournament. Granted he usually does just sit around and get drunk, then stand up and babble something incoherent at the end while envelopes packed with cash fly around. As soon as i come up with $75 for the event and $25 for nefa membership, i'll send that in, even though i'll only be playing one nefa event for the year, the MSDGC. Unless you guys consider Warwick to be nefa, than make that 2 events. You should also make the Lickathon a nefa points series :-D Too bad i can't make that this year, would love to 4-peat. booooooooooooo
mitch
(unless for some reason Lick wants to fly me up there and back, i can come up with the $50)

Thanks, Jason. I *knew* that if I ever got to meet you I'd like you and your most recent post above confirms that. I will personally make every effort to play in the MSDGC this year if you guys follow through.

Note: Despite the "sig" this posting is a purely personal one and in no way reflects my roles at work for SCUP or on the board for the PDGA.

some people take what's posted on the internet way too seriously.

perhaps because they take themselves too seriously ;)

power trips...they're not just for breakfast anymore!

Mitch, if you can't swing the entry get a hold of me and we can work out a sponsorship deal. The only requirement I'd have is at the awards ceremony you'll be required to read a 12 page dissertation on how generous, caring, and giving I am.

Oh, and you'll have to wear a shirt that says, "My sponsor kicked your honor student's [*****]."

You'll have to refer to me as "Grand Poobah" or "Most Endowed One" at all times.

You'll have to sing "Please Help My Pony" before every tee shot. Bonus points for "Buenos Tardes" if you nail the accent right.

Seriously, let me know and we can work something out.

I think it's his lung. Mitch can sing that - and I will help him because I'll be accepting my award from Lick right after Mitch. Yaaah!

PS. Register early baby. Did I mention that the website has been updated by Jason, the Entertainment Director, and myself? http://www.msdgc.com

So what's the bottom line here? There are too many posts to figure it out.

NT Dress is in effect
Entry fee is less than the $125 because they have more than enough sponsorship for a kick-arse payout
???
???

Were there any other sticking points?

Oh, the beer. What was the result of the beer problem?

The intentions of the MSDGC to be an NT have not changed. Upon receipt of the NT Agreement we will review it, and sign it if there are no undue impositions which will cause harm to our tournament.

We may even have our Entertainment Director review it. :eek:

Steve, Joe, and Kelley
The 2005 MSDGC TDs

Steve: Will Marshall Street be an NT? Or has that not been decided yet?(only 3 days left) I, like many others will want to go either way you decide.


Kinda wondering about some of the stuff in the letter sent to Jason and Steve: Who made these decisions? Is there a group or just one person with this power? maybe one of the board members that post on this thread for personal reasons could shed some light on this. Thanks.

For what it's worth:

I applaud Jason's decision to take responsibility for his comments. No one has ever questioned his ability to organize a great tournament. I believe the contrition to be sincere, and I look forward to having a great event like MSDGC on the NT schedule. We had a good, constructive conversation on the phone on Monday.

Again, these comments are my own. Good luck, and best wishes for success for the 2005 MSDGC.

Chap

In discussions that I and Jason have had with Brian Hoenigher, David Gentry and John Chapman, we have made it repeatedly clear that we all have a common goal of working together to promote disc golf and for us specifically to create one of the greatest tournaments in the world (watch out USDGC! :cool:) Bearing this in mind, the 2004 NT Agreement had some restrictions which caused us to choose to not be an NT event. We have been working with the PDGA to try to relieve some of these issues and hope to be an NT.

The 2005 NT Agreement has not yet been completed so it would be impossible for me (or any other potential NT TD to sign it). I am sure that Brian Hoeniger is aware of this and that he merely wants to know if we still intend to be an NT. We clearly will not know for sure (and I would assume the same would go for all of the other potential NT TDs) if we will be an NT event until we see the final version of the 2005 NT Agreement.

I believe that the PDGA has been trying to be responsive to its membership and this is the primary reason for the perhaps major overhaul of the NT Agreement and this would also be the reason that it is uncharacteristically late.

We, the MSDGC Staff, hope to be an NT event, but we are more than willing to go it unsanctioned if the NT Agreement is unreasonable in the impositions it applies to tournaments.

Are there many changes from the 2004 to the 2005 agreement?

Steve, Jason, Lick, all MSDGC staff and organizers,

First - thank you for all that you do - and sorry I couldn't make it last August - I really wanted to.

Second - Seeing all this hoo ha over being an NT is at once disheartening and encouraging. I'm glad to see that folks can pursue common goals in the face of adversity. It's disappointing to see Jason basically brushed aside as an organizer, TD, official, etc - as he has been (from what I can see) THE driving force for DG in NEFA land over the last few years. I think his financial and personal commitment to DG has been overlooked in the brouhaha over "contract terms" that are seldom enforced.

Personally - I'd be more likely to show up if it wasn't an NT event.

Happy Holidays.

I wish I had some sort of sarcasm to add or some criticism that might enrage the masses but it's better to just sit back and watch the fireworks. I see through all involved here. It's just like a new Eminem cd. All the complaints and protests just increase sales. I'd better mail my entry soon because this tourney will be full by March. Jason and Steve, you guys are tricky basturds.

I'm thinking that if you wanted to enrage the masses or to just get a good laugh you can go to the rules and look at the much ado about thread!!!! You might get a kick outta it!! I know I did and it made me feel all holliday like!!! :D:D:D;)

I registered! Now who is my copilot?

I would be but, I already have a car full of mullets going with me

hysell, you really do see through it all. i'm glad that someone's finally been able to make the PDGA work for us instead of the other way around! glad i could do some small part to generate some publicity :)

i wish i'd taken the time to introduce myself at last year's MSDGC, but i was too busy with the poolball races or studying the incredible course designs or trying to figure out why there's a pizza joint on every corner of massachusetts. what is the fascination with cheese and tomato sauce up there?

oh yeah steve, the PDGA is always "uncharacteristically late" when it comes to scheduling. they're too busy policing message boards to get the schedule done on time! :) D'OH!!!

the opinions expressed in this post are from my split personality, "Frank" , and are not endorsed by underparmikey, mike kernan, the kernan family, this network or any of its affiliates. if contacted by PDGA officials underparmikey will deny any knowledge of this post or any past or future posts.

I am glad to read your words there Jason. I don't think we have ever met, but I found some of what you said offensive to not just myself but to folks I consider friends. I wouldn't expect touring mullets to feel the sting of your insults since in general they never lift a finger to help organize events, but for those who do your blanket insults at the PDGA were inappropriate. I'm quite sure you, as what appears to be a great and hard working TD and organizer, would not react well to such insults hurled your direction.

Let's all hope for the best in this.

Grab a napkin, Nick. I think you got some PDGA on your chin.

And oh yeah, I'm a fan of Marshall Street. The colors of their shirts are a little questionable but other than that, I have no complaints. I've even let Steve ride in my corvette. My mom has never been in my corvette.

And on another note. I am a fan of the PDGA as well. Without them, I would be a postwhore on some other message board.

Nick, touring mullets don't have time to help organize an event, they're too busy touring, though Brinster has helped with Warwicks events, and i'm sure other touring guys have helped here and there.
Steve Dodge and Dan Howard, i'm amazed you guys know Ween. When i was asking for sponsorship to get up there it wasn't for the MSDGC or Warwick, it was for the Lickathon. Now i KNOW you're not willing to sponsor a plane flight for a one day non-sanctioned little marathon put on by a pregnant man. Though i do appreciate the offer :) And i would sing too, before every teeshot if it made you feel better. I'd even break out the 'sumo' or the 'michael jackson' dances too, but only if you were in my group.
I will be there for Warwick and MSDGC...somehow.
Mitch

Mitch, if you want to work something out, let me know. All I can offer for Lickathon would be a place to crash.

Maybe I'll sell you a chicken
With poison interlaced wis' da meat

Grab a napkin, Nick. I think you got some PDGA on your chin.



I wasn't talking about the PDGA BoD, I was talking about Dan Doyle, Steve Winchester, Tony Ellis, K.B. Clark, Harold Duvall and others. Jason, whether intentional or not, insulted them all and the people that volunteer to help their events or just improve the promotion of disc golf in general.

Some touring players put out quite a lot Yeti and Dez for example, others not. In general though it really can't be expected that they be able to understand why Jason's words were off the hook and uncalled for towards his peers.

I didn't say what I said to them, I said it to Jason, someone who should know better.

Disc Golf Feudalism is a dead end, as is being a Disc Golf Martyr. I�ve lived through that time and seen too many not to try and call out a warning to them.

I take Jason at his word, that he regrets some of the things he said here. I also hold no grudge if it was sincere. But let�s be 100% clear here, Jason was very wrong in his handling of this, there was no call to disparage all who give of their time and money to make our sport what it is.

I don�t expect Dan Howard to get any of it. Why would he? He has never put anything on the line.

(I've seen trouble makers come and go too...)

Hey Rob,

Who did you say was not working with whom? Who was strong arming whom? Who was being assinine to whom?

Read again, and you decide.

I am completely done with this topic. Unless Jason or someone on the board contacts me I will not revisite this but ugly thread again.

Nick Kight
PDGA DB Monitor
PDGA Course Evaluation Director
MADC Secretary
MADC Web Master
MADC Schedule Coordinator

Mr monitor I have double vision.

What is going on.

looks like they restored the thread. cheers for that

I don�t expect Dan Howard to get any of it. Why would he? He has never put anything on the line.

(I've seen trouble makers come and go too...)



Guys that run courses on their own property put it on the line. Guys that selflessly promote their own, as well as other course's events put it on the line. Guys that make a living by running a pro shop out of their own house put it on the line. Guys that open up their house and property to others for days at a time with no desire for compensation put it on the line.

Guys that 'monitor' a message board don't.

Not that I expect you to make the correlation, Nick, but my questioning of certain policies and/or procedures of the PDGA (a membership that I fund and have donated significant time volunteering for) is no different than what you have done on the Presidential Election thread. And for what it's worth, what Jason has said about 'guru' is less inflammatory and offensive than what you have said about President Bush on that very same thread. It's less offensive than what Cam Todd has said to more than one TD as a matter of fact.

You are a U.S. citizen exercising your right to question your leadership, and I am a PDGA member exercising the very same right. Jason has a helluva lot more on the line than either one of us, and he is doing the same thing.

In hopes that this is done, I am not going to argue with you Dan. I know Jason is a doer, I have said as much, and I don�t want to disparage our touring pros or you for that matter. They and you I�m sure are doing your best to contribute as you are able.

All I ask is that before we jump all over each other with half truths and hearsay, that we encourage the concerned parties to try and communicate constructively, even if that turns out to be not working together. Is that unreasonable? I mean millions of dollars, secret service men and a lifetime of social class separation does not separate us does it?

Yes, Brian is my friend, and I don�t like people saying stupid mean spirited things about him, 1/10th truth or not. Theo is my friend. Terry is my friend. Cartlon is my friend. Dan Doyle is my friend. Ron Turner is my friend. Chris Hysell is my friend. Chris Himing is my friend. I�m sure Jason would be if we ever met. I am blessed with many many many many friends in disc golf as hopefully we all are. We can easily let pettiness and pride cloud our hearts and make us forget our brotherhood here on the message board or in the anonymity of the big world, but let us not forget that when we meet face to face that we are just men. With all of our shortcomings and our better skills we simply try to do our best.

Perhaps I have misspoken, more than likely I have from time to time, but friends forgive friends. They understand that they misspeak and go on.