In the package that I recieved today with my PDGA ballot, among other things, I found the standards of PDGA events. This sheet stated that pro's with a rating below 950 could play as amateurs and amateurs had to have a rating below 950. Can someone please explain this, I probably have misinterpreted it.

Read the 2005 PDGA Tour Standards. (http://www.pdga.com/documents/td/05TourStandards.pdf)

Yup, thats right. Pros that are 'washed up' with ratings of 950 or lower will now be able to play again with others players of the same rating.

below 955

Right. So if you're 952, what are you supposed to do? :confused:
The ratings guidelines suggest 950+ play pro.
The new standards allow <955 to play Am.

Well now, that is confusing!

Hows the injury coming tafe?

Right. So if you're 952, what are you supposed to do? :confused:
The ratings guidelines suggest 950+ play pro.
The new standards allow <955 to play Am.


well, you can play washed-up Am because you're allowed to or you can pro and adhere to the spirit of the pdga guidelines :)

you could just play either, real bad like 880 or something, and then with the next ratings the dilemna would go away.

[/QUOTE]
well, you can play washed-up Am because you're allowed to or you can pro and adhere to the spirit of the pdga guidelines :)



[/QUOTE]
adhere to the spirit of the pdga,that should be in the joke thread right :confused:
when you got players drinking beer ,smoking pot,marking thier lay more favorable on a bad lay,saying you got a three when you know you took a four on the hole,
sponsered players yelling at TD'S and having explosive tempers
just to name a few is that what you call adhering to the spirit of the pdga :eek:

you can call me washed up if you want,i've added up all my rated rounds scene 2001 to 2004 and i came up with a rating of 928 but the pdga has me rated at 940
if i do decide to play ams next year, it will be because i can and that i'm adhering to the guidelines set fourth by the pdga which says i can because of my rating :D

i perfer to call myself a "HACK OR PERTENDER" :eek:

Right. So if you're 952, what are you supposed to do? :confused:
..cut..



it's hysterisis applied on the upward and downward transitions

Done with the opthamologist, and I was tested at 20/20 last time. Dust and light bug me at times, but no permanent damage that will effect me at all. Thanks for asking.

Right. So if you're 952, what are you supposed to do? :confused:
..cut..



it's hysterisis applied on the upward and downward transitions



Yup, depends if that 952 is rising or falling.

If your rating is 955 or less you can play both pro and am.. If your rating is a 956 then you are pro only.. It is cut and dry..

This is nice for me who is only 928 these days. my worst rating since 1998. YIKES!!!! It might be fun playing the big am tournies again and actually competing for a chance. Moving up pro too early was definitely not a good decision, but with all of the crap the good ams received back in the late 90's, you kind of had to move up. I'll definitely hit up a few am events next year.

amatuers can have any rating as long as they don't accept cash. i think they are only suggesting if you have a rating over 950 and are playing AM YOU MAY BE A BAGGER! :D

If your rating is 955 or less you can play both pro and am.. If your rating is a 956 then you are pro only.. It is cut and dry..



will players currently above 955 that have never played open or cashed be forced into the open divisions?

Not for now. The break is actually between 954 and 955. Only pros below 955 can play am.

Dr. Evil:

You should be embarrased to display that Redskin disc the way they are playing. We have a few high school teams here in OK that could give the SKINS a game

ouch, thats too harsh Nina! the skins gave the eagles a game for 3 quarters, and gave the 10-1 steelers a game for 60 minutes. add an offensive line and the skins are a playoff team. they've been in a super bowl before the cowboys figure out which end of the straw to use. ;)

They both suck like Baltimore Crack Ho's :o

If your rating is 955 or less you can play both pro and am.. If your rating is a 956 then you are pro only..



from the pdga:
" this innovation is aimed at increasing member player retention by providing pro women,older pro mem and less competitive male players(washed up as some would like to say) with more incentive to compete in pdga events"

if the pdga is willing to do this now,does this mean that they will be more apt. to grant re-classification or is this just another way of saying"we are throwing the old dog a bone" and hoping it will go away happy with it's treat (scooby snack) ?

I think they are saying that with this rule change, there is no longer a need for reclassifications, and If an old pro ever regains their ability, they will automatically be forced to play in the Pro division instead of being able to choose when to move up again (as they would if they had been allowed to reclassify).

I'm not sure anyone can predict the next move after this change because there are several directions it could go including just continuing this 'pro in am' option. This will be an experiment to see if the option is used, by whom, and if there are other issues that come up as a result.

i can see your point there but if thier gonna let me, a older male player (i.e. master) play am why would they restrict me from playing adv.am masters ?

Pros over 39 can play Adv Am Master if their rating is under 915. Check the changes. It's more than just Pros playing Am under 955 rating. Women pros have similar options with different rating breaks for going back and playing in Am women divisions.

if the pdga is willing to do this now,does this mean that they will be more apt. to grant re-classification or is this just another way of saying"we are throwing the old dog a bone" and hoping it will go away happy with it's treat (scooby snack) ?



Answer: we already approve 90% or more of the reclassification requests received. The bigger issue here is for people to know that a reclassification request is required, they cant just decide to go back to Am as some Pro players have done. Such players do not get Am points when they play Am, can get a warning letter from PDGA (more work), and in a couple of the more blatant instances (ie a pro rated 955+ in 2005 who wins an Am event) we send them a more forceful letter or email advising them to return their script and trophy to the TD or the next highest finisher (pain in the *** for all concerned). Just another example of players not playing by the rules, which in these cases, more often than not, they have not even read. (SIGH)

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reply: well i guess i fell into that 10% who didn't get approved :(
but at least know i can play adv. am. if i choose to next year :D
thank you for giving me options for 2005 :cool:

I will likely be moving up to Open late spring of 2005 after Am World Doubles, but with these new PDGA guidelines I am happy because I know the people I will be competeing with then will be better then me. It is awful to have someone win your division by more then 10 strokes a day (in Am or Adv). I am only moving up because of a desire to get better, personally I do not care if I lose, I just do not like baggers winning. I fear that this will let the greedy people have a loophole to win.

Although it is a good idea for the people who are struggling in open and would rather compete. My above examples are about the unfortunate few who ruin competition for the rest.

According to the ratings I can still play Recreational!!! How many rec players do you know that are 70% from 25-30ft and can drive 450ft? Two bad rounds out of my few rated rounds and my rating is scarred.

I will likely be moving up to Open late spring of 2005 after Am World Doubles......... According to the ratings I can still play Recreational!!!



Good luck with that...

According to the ratings I can still play Recreational!!! How many rec players do you know that are 70% from 25-30ft and can drive 450ft? Two bad rounds out of my few rated rounds and my rating is scarred.



Right now, as I play, a bad round for me is basically rated 880, normal rounds about 910 and good rounds around 925, in tournaments. In the South there are not alot of PDGA events, alot of people down here do not like the PDGA and hence will not sanction, so they are primarily Southern National Events. (this is comparing my scores to what actual rated rounds are on particular courses.)

As I mentioned in my above statement. I am moving up to make myself better, not to win tournaments. I believe in playing quality tournaments and not quantity so the money will not be a big deal. Those who play with me and know my rating, think its a bunch of junk. I only lost by one stroke on a "money" round to a pro with a current rating of 960.

Also my moving up is not definate. I have only been playing for 10 months now, I need to improve on my sidearm, it is only about 25% effective, and my overhand thumbers, I have the tomahawk, but the thumber falls the wrong direction then it is supposed to. With out those two throws, (my backhand is pretty darn good), I will not move up. But you only play as good as your competition. And I eventually want to be a semi touring pro, so far you cannot make more money in disc golf as you can with a Masters Degree.

I will not feel bad losing if I am playing good.

reply: well i guess i fell into that 10% who didn't get approved :(
but at least know i can play adv. am. if i choose to next year :D
thank you for giving me options for 2005 :cool:



jack...you beat me a couple of times proving you should play pro only :D:D

i might be joining you in am tournies if i play like i played at the us masters first round the rest of this year :p

jack...you beat me a couple of times proving you should play pro only :D:D




i can hear the "that a boys" coming in now :o
i'll put that on my tombstone

*RIP*
TFO
i beat keithjohnson a few times
:D

i'll put that on my tombstone

*RIP*
TFO
i beat keithjohnson a few times
:D


Can't everybody put that on their tombstone? :)

I will likely be moving up to Open late spring of 2005 after Am World Doubles......... According to the ratings I can still play Recreational!!!



Good luck with that...



From personal expeience I would suggest not moving up until you win a tournament or have multiple top finishes. Moving to open with a rating in the 850's is not right.

Most pros will not like you playing open even if you are donating. You will be taking so many more throws than them, not making easy shots, taking more time, etc. Start playing 930-950 golf in tournaments , then you're ready to move up. With you're rating you should play in Int.

850 is a Rec rating, not Int.

Yeah, but he's really playing well above his rating, due to reasons he stated above.

Most pros will not like you playing open even if you are donating.

I have not yet met any of those pros!

But playing above your rating in casual rounds is something a lot of people do. Familiar course, non-tournament situation, etc comes into play.

Bruce: Imagine it was only open players playing a particular course during a tournament. He's playing 870 golf, while the 2nd last pro player is playing 930. The lead card of Open is behind them(full field) and is waiting on him what seems to be every hole. You couldn't see some top pros getting frustrated? Or for that matter a lot of pros who know their round would be going by quicker if this rec player was not playing pro.

I'm was talking about bigger tournaments, not local non- sanctioned tournaments.

If a player plays right along, the number of strokes a player takes need not be related to the time it takes him to play the course. At the last tournament I ran, in the morning and afternoon I had all threesomes. Both rounds it was the two junior girls and their third player who finished first. Based on what I've seen, pros are often the slowest players. Maybe it is different in New York.

I don't know what I should think right now. When I am at the courses playing with people, they constantly ask when I am moving up? Here everyone says move down even though they have never played with me.
I was playing Int when I parked a 390ft uphill shot, the guy in my group said that he never wanted to see me in Int again (friendly of course), so I moved up. I also moved up because I was consistantly beating the bottom half of the Adv players. Right now, I am about top 25% advanced around the south, the past few tournaments I have played I would have easily won Int, (justifing being in adv) but now I am starting to beat a few people playing open. I play regularly with a couple top pros here in town, one on our regular course and the other I play safari with.

I do not see group of pros all getting birdies on holes every hole. I doubt my threes will slow them up so much. Plus I am realistic about my expectations in the open division. No, I will not be playing with the Climo's, Todd's, Russell's and Shultz's of the game, and I likely would not enter an A-teir as a open player for a while, I would stick to C and B tiers to hon in my skills. I have yet to play an A teir advanced, first will be Bowling Green.

I don't play this game for the prizes, I play to get better. When I play for stuff like discs, I do not throw as good when I am playing skins or rounds for cash. Eventually I will become a cashing pro, but not now. I just want to play with better people to make myself better. That is how I practice and how I want to compete. I wish my PDGA box scores justified my reasonings.

BTW, the only time "I" would talk someone out of changing a division was if they were not personally ready for it. If someone wants to move up, then I encourage them as long as they are realistic. If you are in a tournament with me next summer in the Open division and I am in your group first round, I am not sorry if I mess up your game with an extra stroke or two. Because if you're messed up by another players game, especially one you are doing better then, then your mental game may not be that good either. (I feel that is the lousiest excuse in the world). Although it is bad when groups are mixed during the rounds, you should at least play with your division.

History of my advancement
1995 Started playing Ultimate in school/local tournaments
1999 Won first Ultimate Tournament; Balloon Fest Warsaw In.
Feb 2004 Picked up a golf disc for first time ever
March 2004 Broke 300ft barrier
April 2004 Broke par at George Ward in Birmingham Al, medium/long set up.
May 2004 Broke 400ft barrier
July 2004 Moved up to Advanced Division
October 2004 Broke 450ft barrier, gained 70% putting from 25-30ft
Novemeber 2004 Broke par George Ward Park, Birmingham Al, 2004 Tax Tourney set up during league play. (par is always 3x # of holes)

I figure by next May I should be ready at this current level of advancement, each week I get better and better. And I have a very very good coach and friend who thinks my goals are realistic, 12 time World Champion Tom Monroe, our wives work together, thats how I got to know him.

Sorry for making this long, I just had a lot of points I felt I needed to rebutte.

At the last tournament I ran, in the morning and afternoon I had all threesomes. Both rounds it was the two junior girls and their third player who finished first. Based on what I've seen, . pros are often the slowest players



Glad I'm not the only one who noticed that :D.

Of course in the Open division every shot counts a little bit more than in any other







Disclaimer: not ragging on the pros, but that is often the slowest division............but at the same time pointing out that EVERY shot does make a difference at that level also ;)

Of course in the Open division every shot counts a little bit more than in any other







Disclaimer: not ragging on the pros, but that is often the slowest division............but at the same time pointing out that EVERY shot does make a difference at that level also ;)



I dont know about you, but when I shoot in tournements (Adv, JV player) every shot I take is just as important to me as if I were to be playing Open. I hate losing! :p ;) :D

Bruce: Imagine it was only open players playing a particular course during a tournament. He's playing 870 golf, while the 2nd last pro player is playing 930. The lead card of Open is behind them(full field) and is waiting on him what seems to be every hole. You couldn't see some top pros getting frustrated? Or for that matter a lot of pros who know their round would be going by quicker if this rec player was not playing pro.




Ok, Luke, think about it this way. He's playing 870 golf, while the 2nd to last pro is playing 930 golf. That means, on average, these two golfers will be separated by 6 strokes per round. So that's one stroke every 3 holes? Hardly slowing the game down, especially since most of those strokes are probably going to come around the green (missing 25 footers, etc.). The lead card would be waiting, regardless. One 870 golfer won't make that much difference.

Disclaimer: not ragging on the pros, but that is often the slowest division............but at the same time pointing out that EVERY shot does make a difference at that level also


wow, where are these mythical tournaments where the pros are the slowest division??? I want to know so I can go play! If that was the case, tournaments would go soooo much quicker! I've been looking for that kinda tournament for a long time!

wow, where are these mythical tournaments where the pros are the slowest division??? I want to know so I can go play! If that was the case, tournaments would go soooo much quicker! I've been looking for that kinda tournament for a long time!



You definately must not be playing here in TX. The pros always finish last it seems. Granted this is good for guys like me who suck and get to watch them for a while.

Disclaimer: not ragging on the pros, but that is often the slowest division............but at the same time pointing out that EVERY shot does make a difference at that level also


wow, where are these mythical tournaments where the pros are the slowest division??? I want to know so I can go play! If that was the case, tournaments would go soooo much quicker! I've been looking for that kinda tournament for a long time!



I agree. There was a recent tournament I attended where all groups were 4 somes and a group of Adv. Masters finished 45 minutes after most groups were in.
Earlier this year I was on the bottom card of Open playing behind the lead card of pro masters. We waited at least 5 minutes on every tee.

Hey, be nice...we're old and it takes longer to push those carts everywhere we go...you try putting when your dang cart is rolling down the hill towards the creek.

Of course, if you were on the lead card where it mattered, instead of the last pro card where ya ain't gonna cash no matter what, you might play a little slower too.

Geesh...dang whippersnappers...how's it feel to be schmacked by a geezer??

What are you smoking man.

The pros here in Texas are never the last ones to finish.

Maybe the pro masters.

They are when it's a doubles tournament, and one of them gets so stinking drunk that he can hardly walk....

Oh wait, he was an Am playing in a pro division.

Ive seen plenty of Pros that take forever in Oregon.

I've heard the lead card of MPO referred to as "The Prima-donna Card" on more than one occasion.

well when the ams are playing short tees and I can pro's taking a little longer . . . oh wait, no I can't. I've never seen the pro's finish after the ams

They are when it's a doubles tournament, and one of them gets so stinking drunk that he can hardly walk....

Oh wait, he was an Am playing in a pro division.



Seen this happen way to many times. Sometimes it also happens to an Am playing pro in a pdga event. That's why it isn't fun on the bottom card of pro. These are the people that cause the bottom cards to play slow.

Good idea to add to your post count by helping to revive a thread that had been dead for almost a month. This should help your rating get over 1000 Chris.

The Advanced players definitely play faster than the Open players.
I am not talking about female, master, or newbie AM divisions.

I still find that hard to believe.

We are talking about ams play Vs pro play and there is no way that the pros are ever the last ones to finish.

If they are it is probably because they were weighting on the women or masters to play.

:p

pros take their time and throw less than most advance players :D

And if yall would stop putting the women behind the rec men we would finish faster. It never fails, we get stuck behind the bottom rec/ intermediate dfl card most of the time.

All it takes is one slow player to dlow things down. I've seen slow players in most divisions. It really gets bad when 2 or more slow players end up on the same card. Then the whole tournament starts backing up. I remember spending half of a round in Crowley wondering if our group somehow ended up on the wrong course. We didn't see another golfer for over 9 holes.

maybe it IS just a regional thing... but i know at nearly every tournament i go to, the pros are last to come in.

except for NH states when my card (AM1) was. we didnt think we were playing that slowly given the monsoon, but I got in darn near an hour after my wife and my AM2 buddies got finished

This thread has never been dead for more than a month, but now I will make sure to revive it if it ever happens to die for over a month :)

This thread has never been dead for more than a month, but now I will make sure to revive it if it ever happens to die for over a month :)

I thought it was Schweb's job to revive dead threads!

This thread has never been dead for more than a month, but now I will make sure to revive it if it ever happens to die for over a month :)

I thought it was Schweb's job to revive dead threads!



Just because Schweb posts in a thread doesn't mean it isn't still dead...

why not !!

From what I've seen, slow players exist at every level. Hell, I know I've played strings of holes slowly--mainly due to repetitive tree syndrome.

However, the Out-of-Town Pros play slower than anyone else in their division (vs O-o-T Ams at any level versus their divisions), mostly due to unfamiliarity with a course. O-o-T Ams tend to chuck and hope it works out. :)

And I agree with Danielle's assessment of why the women play so slow. Putting them behind the Rec DFL card is not a good idea. Nor is putting them in front of the Recs when Advanced is playing longs and Rec is playing shorts. Kat has wanted to hurt some Rec players in that situation, being that those Recs are better players even though the only play half of some holes. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

All things being equal, leader cards are usually the slowest. Hence the term "Leader Card Golf." :)