can anyone tell me the differences in flight of dx rocs and dx spiders? both assumed heavy. thanks

oh yea--and how does the champion spider differ from dx?

ever heard of a kc pro spider????? that should answer all the questions asked in this thread....any roc is better than any spider any day of the week and twice on sundays

Rocs are too domey and seem slow for me but a Pro line Spider will fly 350 and straight when broken in. When they are new they fly straight and fade at the end. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Spiders fly similar, and are shaped different, if you don't like the larger diameter and grip on a Roc you should give the Spider a try. Tthe Spider is slightly faster and less overstable therefore it flys very striaght. I used to carry both Rocs and Spiders but I simplified the molds I carry, so now I just use a slightly seasoned Roc where I would have used the Spider. You can also get the Spider in Champion Plastic alot cheaper then you can get a Champion Roc....so give it a try.
Cheers,
Matt

thanx- i realize the roc is more popular and i have been throwing them ever since i started-[8 yrs], but i am having grip issues [i use a power grip, tried flip the bird, etc.] and do not have the control with my rocs that i do with my teebirds. i need a wider -rim mid. i will try a spider

IMO, in general, spiders are more overstable than rocs in the same plastic, i.e. DX spiders are more overstable than DX Rocs, CE spiders are more overstable than CE Rocs (excepting 2001 CE Rocs). I find spiders more ballistic (they glide less) than their Rocs counterparts, so they're a better choice for me on "touch" shots (FH and BH) when I want to take a run at the basket but don't want to risk blowing by the basket or having my disc flex out and glide away. CE Spiders are effective FH and flick-roller discs and for UD skip shots. (Spiders are also a great wind putter.)

Can't really comment on how Proline/Champion Spiders compare to DX 'cuz I've only thrown them a handful of times (I stick with CEs), but my impression is that they're closer to DX than CE.

YMMV.

DX spiders are more overstable than DX Rocs


I could not disagree with that statement more. I am no big-arm, but I find DX Spiders to be quite flippy right out of the box while DX Rocs are surprisingly overstable.

DX Roc is only understable if it is beat to heck or you release it with a ton of flutter.

DX spiders are more overstable than DX Rocs


I could not disagree with that statement more. I am no big-arm, but I find DX Spiders to be quite flippy right out of the box while DX Rocs are surprisingly overstable.

Well, obviously, YMDV. :)

I'm no big-arm either (330-350' max), and I rarely keep discs in any plastic in my bag long enough for them to get beat, but I'll go with a DX Spider over a DX Roc on a 200-280' approach if I absolutely, positively don't want the disc to flip; conversely, I'll go with a DX Roc for slow, controlled, 200-300' turnovers. Then again, I also rarely throw midrange discs at more than 75% power, so it's not like Im going to be flipping either of them all over the place.)

What weight Roc and what weight Spider are you talking about?

180 roc and 175 spider

180 roc and 175 spider

174-175g on both. My DX spiders are all first or second run (pre-tarantula hotstamp). They're flatter and softer/floppier�almost SE Soft Rhyno plastic soft�than DX Spider of more recent vintages.

I go max-weight on both, and I only ever used the first run soft bar-stamp Spiders. It's weird because I found the DX Spider to be waaay more flippy than a DX Roc. So much so that I gave up on throwing it and gave the Gator a chance a chance in my bag.

I juts find it really bizarre that you find a new DX Roc, even a "light one" at 175, to be flippier than a DX Spider. Do you get a clean release with a Roc? If the Roc flutters, it sputters...and turns over quick.

Do you get a clean release with a Roc?

As best as I can tell, yes. Over the past year or so, I've probably spent an average of 2-3 hours working on my midrange game on the practice field for every hour I've spent on the course, so I've spent a lot of time tweaking my form to get things smoothed out. These days, I don't notice any appreciable flutter, even throwing premie Rocs and MTA Condors.

yet I have never seen him(fore) play a round in competition

I'm with Rhett on this one. A roc is more overstable than a spider for me. They have different feels and different flights. I prefer the spider cause I have better control with it.

The spider is a smaller disc. I myself prefer a big midrange, something I can really get a hold of. It gives me confidence.

My first ace was with an old CE spider. The current Champion Spiders have sweet plastic! If Innova made their putters in this plastic, there would be alot more people using them.

I just switched to the roc from the spider because I needed a mid range that was easy to turn over which the spider is not. I have thrown spiders since they came out with the bar stamp, dx, true champion, pro-line and some of the new champion. IMO they where all more stable than Roc's in the same plastic. I believe that the roc is more manipulable that a spider and easier to turn over and have it hold the line, where my spiders would hyzer out.

The roc seems to have more glide and tends to be less stable than the spider. The spider is more consistent (stable) but less manipulable. Both are good disc and if you're thinking of trying out the spider go for it.

You may want try a Buzz. It is a great mid range disc :cool:

Just switched my buzz for a new candy type Element.

Very nice, much more predictable than the Buzz.

What's the deal with the Element. Is it a mid range disc ?
What made you change from your Buzz ? just curious. Have
not done much research on it.

trying the spider because the grip of the roc/element/buzz/wasp is not comfortable for me and my grip. i love the flights of the aforementioned discs, but my release is not as consistant as with my teebirds [wider rim] the spiders feel better--hopefully the flight will work for me.

I have one Spider, a first run CE, 176g. As mentioned above & IMHO, it is more overstable than a DX Roc (the only Rocs I throw are DX and Ching) and it handles headwinds more predictably. It has less glide and is better for any sidearm shots...again IMHO.

I carry 4 Roc/Wasp/Buzzz molds, a hard and soft Rhyno, and the above CE Spider...and nothing, NOTHING!, can do what a nicley beat-in DX Roc can do... :cool:

Steven, I think you'll like a Spider. They compliment Rocs quite well.
.02

I used to carry a max-weight pearlescent 1st run CE Spider in the "new Roc" slot of my bag when I was trying to replace the new/seasoned/beat Roc trifecta with all candy midranges. The CE Spider (star stamp) was more overstable than a new DX Roc, but I found it to be less predictable into a head wind. ("Headbreeze", really.) I have no troubles pumping a new DX Roc into a headwind - the stronger the breeze the lower I throw it. Just throw it hard. But the CE Spider would flip sometimes. Kinda strange.

That describes my CE Spider to a "T"...except I had Jeff Ash Brain~Wave it!!!
I've had that Spider flip as well...and too, with a Roc. User error, here.
Headwind? Demon G5i or Rhyno.
Too much 'Candy' obsession out there...DX is way too underated these days.

Too much 'Candy' obsession out there...DX is way too underated these days.

I agree. I actually prefer to throw DX, but with all the woods courses and rocky fairways around here, DX can go from new to beat in 4-5 rounds, which just isn't cost-efficient. Some of the candy in my bag has been there for two-plus years and is still going strong, so while I've always got at least a couple of DX discs in my bag, the majority of the time, I throw candy.

What's the deal with the Element. Is it a mid range disc ?
What made you change from your Buzz ? just curious. Have
not done much research on it.



The Element is 1 of 2 new midranges from Gateway. Flies very straight at lower speeds, and is availbable in all of Gateways plastics.

The Element X is the perfect compliment to the Element. With a blunter nose and a more concave wing, this is THE replacement for all you Roc throwers out there. Very slow, yet stable enough for lower shots with lots of snap. In the "CE" plastic, it will hyzer a tad at the end.

And PLEASE DON'T take this post as and ad and get ****** as me...I was mearly responding to a persons question. Thanks you.

[QUOTE]
Too much 'Candy' obsession out there...DX is way too underated these days.




I disagree. I'm not knocking DX, its just that I prefer to have plastic that will fly with the same consistancy after a year as it did on the first day. I like DX, I just dislike having to constantly adjust my shots with it as it becomes seasoned.

I see guys throw new DX and have it hit a tree , only to hear them say, "well it used to fly straight."

Hit a tree with candy and it still flys just like it did.

I do carry a dx wasp, but I replace them about every three months. My original CE pearl spider has been in my bag for almost three years and it flys just like it did when I got it.

I prefer the marble CE spiders myself.

Too much 'Candy' obsession out there...DX is way too underated these days.




I disagree. I'm not knocking DX, its just that I prefer to have plastic that will fly with the same consistancy after a year...


I hear ya Dave... Rain or shine, I wish that Candy had the 'feel' of DX...and that DX had the durability of Candy! Only in a perfect world... /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

if you like the spider you will like BULLDOG.
BUT throw with care, because it's a jawbreaker!!!!!

they should have a warning stamp on this disc :confused: