I was wondering why there are so few women and junior disc golfers. Does anyone have any opinions on this issue? I used to play a lot of disc golf in college (over 15 years ago). I noticed back then that there were very few women and junior disc golfers. But I really didn�t think that much about it. Disc golf was something I did with my friends, not something I invited my girlfriend to do. When I started working and got married, I kind of left the sport (I was lucky if I played 1 or 2 rounds a year).

Last spring my daughter (Nicole) started playing disc golf with me, and she really liked the sport. Nicole turned 9 years old this past August. By the middle of summer she was shooting rounds in the 90�s, so I entered her in 2 leagues and put her in 3 tournaments. Here is what I have seen so far:

� 1st tournament � 2 females (including Nicole) out of 15 players � 3 juniors (2 boys plus Nicole)
� 2nd tournament � 5 females (including Nicole) out of 54 players. Nicole was the only player in the rec women�s division. No junior�s division.
� 3rd tournament � 12 females (including Nicole) out of 152 players � 4 juniors (3 boys plus Nicole).
� 1st league - 6 of the 68 players were female (including Nicole) � Nicole was the only junior player.
� 2nd league - 2 of the 24 players are female (including Nicole). Nicole was the only junior player.

So in the 3 tournament and 2 leagues Nicole has played in, only 8.63% of the players have been female. Nicole has been the only junior female in the 3 tournament and 2 leagues she has played so far. In fact Nicole mentioned to me that she has never even seen another girl (kid) on a disc golf course.

Since there were no junior girls for Nicole to play with, I searched the PDGA website to see if there were any other junior girls that were Nicole�s age. I found a girl named Kira Brakel from Michigan who was 10 years old. So I started showing Kira�s scores to Nicole. For example, I would show Nicole that Kira shot an 86 in a tournament. So Nicole�s was determined to beat Kira�s score. As Nicole�s scores got better, I continued to show her Kira�s scores (83, 80, 77, then 75). Nicole�s best score so far is a 76 in league play. Now I am sure Kira is a much better player than Nicole (Nicole shooting a 76 at a short, easy local course, is no comparison to Kira shooting a 75 at the 2004 Junior World Championships). But for now, Kira is all she has to compare herself to. Nicole likes having someone to compete with; even if it is someone in Michigan that she will never meet (Nicole lives in Texas).

So again I am wondering why there are so few women and junior disc golfers. My wife doesn�t play because she worries about messing up her finger nails. Nicole wants to have a disc golf event for her Girl Scout troop next spring (it is already on the troop calendar). She also want for organize a juniors disc golf league next summer. I told Nicole that I would get opinions on why there are so few females and juniors playing disc golf, by seeking input on the PDGA website. So does anyone have any opinions or insights into this issue?

Thank���Rick

I was wondering why there are so few women and junior disc golfers.

Sadly, 8.63% might actually be above average. :confused:

...I've wondered about this, too. The 'best' answer I've heard is that many women don't feel comfortable out on the course, and that is a bleeping-shame. I haven't heard about it happening HERE, but I've heard stories about the ladies being heckled, for being 'slow', or WHATEVER...that's just plain poor etiquette, and NOT acceptable!

Glib answer, to get the ball rolling: Be encouraging to all newbies, esp. Women and Juniors!

[waxing nostalgic mode]: When I was beginning competitive athletics [in the mid-70's], we weren�t that far removed from the days of women being BANNED from the Boston Marathon! Now look at the numbers; it's dang-near equal. So there is hope...

It happens around here, slo. Boy does it happen. Frequently the women's groups are slow. But just as frequently the women are being held up by the guys ahead of them, but the guys behind still blame the women.

Plus there are hardly any women out there, so when one does show up a lot of us disc golfers just don't know how to act. Especially if it's a single girl.

Here's what I think is the real problem, though. And nobody ever wants to hear it. There's too much swearing and drunkeness and pot smoking going on. Parents don't usually take their kids out where the f-bomb is being screamed all the time. Or where drunks are acting like idiots. Or where you constantly have to answer the "what's that smell, daddy?" question. So very few kids out there disc golfing.

I don't think girls, in general, like to be hooted at and harassed when they aren't going out on parade. (I think when they are dressed to the nines to go clubbing it's a different story. :) ) Us guys are morons. And there are a lot of us. And plenty of us are screaming f-bombs over bad shots.

You might want to start a Junior Girls League. Make field trips with your group to nearby tournaments. You might start something big.

Frequently the women's groups are slow. But just as frequently the women are being held up by the guys ahead of them, but the guys behind still blame the women.



Too true.

Sorry to hear that...is that E.I. too? Morley I can see delays; haven't heard that about Oceanside.

...Is your short answer we need to 'clean up our act'? I'm bothered by the swearing, too...unseemly, anywhere!

You might want to start a Junior Girls League. Make field trips with your group to nearby tournaments. You might start something big.



Kira's dad Bruce runs the Waterford Girls group up in Michigan. See if he would lend his knowledge to help out something.

Sorry to hear that...is that E.I. too? Morley I can see delays; haven't heard that about Oceanside.


I was talking about tournaments, including ones at ElDo! :eek: (Everywhere, actually.)

Yikes! My blissfull innocence went poof!

Is putting women/juniors in 3-somes at all a help? In regards to speed-of-play, that is.

It always helps to put "slower players" in smaller groups, but it is not always the women that are the slowest players.

I think it isn't all that popular for juniors because they don't offer organized teams at most schools. Why play disc golf with mom and/or dad when you can play baseball, football, soccer, basketball, track, wresteling, tennis, ball golf or volleyball with your friends at school?

Other possible solutions: Perhaps not for PDGA-sanctioned events, but for "minis": Hand out 'play free' passes for vets to give to newbies. Have a 'no pay' policy for Juniors and Women...no prizes, but they get the 'feel' of an organized event. Not mention one which costs nothing: Watch yer language!!

...keep 'em coming, please.

It always helps to put "slower players" in smaller groups, but it is not always the women that are the slowest players.

Duly noted. Of course, with any 3-some, that figures to deplete the field 1-2 spots, but isn't a smooth-running event a priority, too?

I think it isn't all that popular for juniors because they don't offer organized teams at most schools. Why play disc golf with mom and/or dad when you can play baseball, football, soccer, basketball, track, wrestling, tennis, ball golf or volleyball with your friends at school?


It's a small start, but we have 8-9 boys from the High School 1/2 mile away who have formed a team. We're closer than the ball and stick course! ;)

It always helps to put "slower players" in smaller groups, but it is not always the women that are the slowest players.



Too true................it's usually the masters :D:D

jason you punk :Dyoungster

but isn't a smooth-running event a priority, too?


That depends on who you ask. The people who can't bother to pre-register think that anything less than 5-somes and ghost cards are a conspiracy against them! :eek:

13 rec. females signed up for texas 10 final. all guaranteed to cash. quite a few who are also qualified for the bonus. which means they have played in at least 4 events.

I noticed that turnout. We might have to try and make a family road trip next year. :)

But there isn't much about the awesome Texas10 that is "normal" compared to regular DG tourneys. Himing is a fantastic over-achiever. It'd definitely be worth it for all SoCal disc golfers to pitch in and buy him a house in SoCal so he'd live out here run tourneys here. :D

ya know, that would definitely be worth a thousand bucks. But can I find 649 other people who felt the same way?

Frequently the women's groups are slow. But just as frequently the women are being held up by the guys ahead of them, but the guys behind still blame the women.



Too true.



This attitude hasn't stopped me, but it has definitely affected my friends. Nothing like a group of guys who want to play through, assuming we're the slow group, when the entire course is backed up.

It does leave a bad feeling.

It does leave a bad feeling.



Yep it does. In 2002, my wife's card was placed in front of some of the touring pros at TX States. From all the whining she heard from them, you'd think those guys were 8 years old. (Now that we know more, one of them only acts like he's 8)

It's even funnier (for me, annoying for her) to hear some of the Rec division complain, especially when they are playing the short tees and the Advanced women are playing the regular/long tees.....

Most of the women who do play around here do their best to ignore it. Thanks to TDs like Himing and others, who work to create a more inclusive and supportive atmosphere, more women are getting involved.

Rick, I've brought my 10 year old daughter Shannon to 2 tournaments this year but both times her 12 year old cousin Melissa (Dan Howard's daughter) played also. Both times the TD has allowed the girls to play from "short tees" (at our discretion) to speed play and they've only played the first round of a 2 round tournament. Shannon has now expressed an interest in playing both rounds which adds a new problem, she won't be with me for the second round and I've got to have faith in the disc golf community or bring a chaperone for her. I think I've got her convinced that with some work she could do well at the 2006 worlds in the 12 & under division (road trip!!!) and I can honestly say that I'm looking forward to spending more time out on the course with her.

Kira will be excited to hear that there is a kid in Texas following her scores and trying to catch up. Kira has been trying to catch up with Kelsey and Kelsey's friends for four years, and has caught up with most of them.

Junior disc golf happens when a dedicated parent puts the kids first and himself or herself second. Terry Calhoun did that for a couple of years for Ben and Ben's friends and Jim Schultz did that for a couple of years for Wade and Wade's friends. Their example encouraged Diana and I to do that for Kelsey and her friends.

A good place to start is to encourage your kid to invite her friends to go play casual rounds to learn how to play. You should bring ice cream money. Don't be trying to teach them a lot of stuff. That will be not fun. Just teach them to throw from where it lands and count all their throws. Learn to use lots of positive reinforcement phrases, like, "Good throw!" "Nice putt!" "Great drive!" "You are really getting the hang of this!"

I did not start taking Kelsey to tournaments until she had a group of friends who wanted to play tournaments. We did not start a league until we had a group of kids whose moms would drop them off at the park once a week to play disc golf with Kelsey, her friends, and her parents.

No matter how good your girl is, or is not, if you can take the time off and get her out of school, come on up for the USWDGC in Peoria in September. There she will meet other junior disc golfers, have a chance to meet all the top pro women, and have a lot of fun.

At first it will feel like a huge sacrifice and commitment on your end because you will be sacrificing your personal disc golf time for your kid. Four years later, I'm really glad I did.

IMO, getting more kids and women to play are 2 somewhat seperate issues.

As for the kids, as a rule, they should be placed in their own group and a non-playing adult should go with them. That way they play from their own tees (if necessary) and the adult helps to keep them focused. They are going to be slow if they are made to play from adult tees. The tees that they shoot from should let them shoot no more than a 5 or 6 AT THE MOST on any hole. Most holes should be shot in 3 or 4 throws. I make some "stupid short" holes for the youngest kids so they get an ace run or 2. Of course the older or more experienced the kid, the longer the holes can be.

The womens issue is more complex. Women tend to be less into the competative thing than guys are. As a result, they are less women who are inclinded to want to play tournament golf. To get women playing in the first place, it is usually up to the boyfriend/husband to get them playing. The problem with that is that guys usually give their girlfriend/wife their old beat up heavy plastic to throw. Most ladies won't be able to throw them well enough to see the improvement needed to keep them throwing. Also, if the guy doesn't have good technique, how can he teach her to throw correctly? Here is where an experienced women disc golfer can step in. The ladies league in Des Moines and Kansas City have been successful in getting more ladies playing. You have to have a women willing to put in the time to get the other ladies playing in a relaxed teaching atmosphere. That can be the stumbling block.

The womens issue is more complex. Women tend to be less into the competative thing than guys are.



Agreed.

BUT, I think we simply need to attract women to the sport from other competitive venues. The traditional - bring your girlfriend/wife out to play is fun at first for some women, but when they realize that they are not competitive and tourney play is not fun for them, they leave. Women who are already involved in competitive sports in high school and college should be a target market - but our sport does not market.

Let me repeat - OUR SPORT DOES NOT MARKET - this is the main reason our overall attendance is pretty sucky IMO.

Imagine if you could get the DGWN through publishers clearing house :eek: and the newest issue with a great pic of Brigitta on the cover arrived at your doorstep and your 12 YO daughter took an interest in the mag and then the sport! Wouldn't that be cool? :cool:

Funny my two boys could care less about disc golf...they play, but I have to suggest it.

It's my 4 year old daughter (Piper)that meets me at the door when I get home and asks me to play disc with her! She is relentless! I never actually thought I would find myself saying "I don't feel like playing disc right now"... I think it and I go out and throw with her.

I, for one, am well aware that the PDGA doesn't market itself. Nor does the DGWN (it doesn't have to, you sign up for the PDGA...you GET the DGWN whether you want it or not!)
Why should Rick spend money marketing????

I spent the last year Marketing the WVO specifically to Women! And it kind of worked. I would have liked to have 30 women at the WVO...but.

I try to be a big proponent of Womens DG...Things like playing in the Mixed Doubles instead of Pro's...taking time to help techniques when necessary...

Besides the women are nicer to look at then the men. (that's just my opinion)

Play mixed...help a woman feel welcome!

MS

Tees! You are so smart!

I remember the first time I had the opportunity to play doubles and it at my first PDGA event.. the 9th Annual WVO!

I (not being shy) asked a local club player if he would be my mixed doubles partner and I was so thrilled that he said yes. Jim V was a great partner, very supportive and didn't get mad or anything when he had to do most of the work during the rounds.

Mixed doubles and doubles events are a great way to introduce women to tourney play in a non-threatening way.

The key is still to find the right type of women to introduce - not all women enjoy competing. Those of us who do enjoy it - compete as fiercly as the top card of MPO in the final round of Worlds. :)

BUT, I think we simply need to attract women to the sport from other competitive venues. The traditional - bring your girlfriend/wife out to play is fun at first for some women, but when they realize that they are not competitive and tourney play is not fun for them, they leave. Women who are already involved in competitive sports in high school and college should be a target market - but our sport does not market.




I agree that women who participated in competative sports in the past are the ones who are more likely to want to play competative disc golf. You're also correct then you say that disc golf is not marketed. It's not marketed to anyone in general and certainly not women in particular.

Yes, there are TDs out there that do a great job in attempting to attract women to events. However we get more women just playing. There are a lot of women disc golfers out there, they just don't know that they are... yet!

Some of the replies mentioned slowness of play in juniors and females. Pace of play was a big concern of mine when Nicole 1st started playing. Nicole wanted to play in a league or in a tournament right away. However I didn�t think my fellow disc golfers would appreciate playing with someone who took 150 strokes to complete a round. So I waited until Nicole�s scores got into the low 90�s to enter her in a tournament or league. I don�t think women or juniors should have to achieve a certain score before playing in a league or tournament, but I was worried that Nicole would not be received well if she took too long to play a round. Even though her average is now around 80 strokes per round on the 2 short courses we normally play, she still plays slow. She is very deliberate in lining up her shots and she gets distracted (picking up sticks and stuff) when it is not her turn to play, so she is not always ready to throw when it is her turn. Also I don�t want to take the fun out of the game for her by constantly rushing her. Unfortunately I do find myself rushing her more than I probably should.

So far there have been very few negatives with regard to Nicole playing disc golf. Nicole has noticed the drinking and the F-word being used. In one tournament, the boys she was playing with would take off to the next hole before Nicole was finished playing the current hole (this bothered Nicole a little, but overall the boys were very nice to her). In league, Nicole likes playing with and meeting new people. But it is sometimes hard to get on a card. However I understand that people want to play with their friends and with people who have a similar skill level to themselves (and not have to watch their language or topic of conversation). I also understand that Nicole plays a little slow, so it doesn�t bother me when we have to play alone. But I am sure that Nicole would rather be on a card that is more than just me and her.

There have been very few negatives, but many positives. EVERYONE Nicole has met on the disc golf course has been very encouraging. When she sees someone we have played with, she always wants to go say hi. Some of the women disc golfers have come and introduced themselves and complimented her on her play. People we have never met have come and introduce themselves, saying that they have heard good things about Nicole. Even the 2 boys at the tournament that kept going to the next hole while Nicole was still playing, said many nice things to her. They would comment on the snap in her throws, and that her scores were better than the 12 year old girls they have played with in the past (Nicole was 8 years old at the time). They told her several times that she would be a world champion some day. So Nicole has received great support and encouragement from everyone so far. This is probably one of the reasons she likes the game so much.

Anyway, I thought I would share our experiences so far.

Thanks��..Rick

In one tournament, the boys she was playing with would take off to the next hole before Nicole was finished playing the current hole (this bothered Nicole a little, but overall the boys were very nice to her).



I've experienced the same thing in every tourney I've played, with the exception of USWDGC in Peoria this past year. I don't know what it is, because when the guys are slower, I always wait. I keep playing with the boys and put up with the crap that happens, the negativity and such, but were I not so fiercely into disc golf, I'd probably have quit by now. I can see why not many women play, but I keep going and inviting other gals. Sadly, when I invite other girls out, I hear horror stories about how they've been treated. I even had some random guy send me a Yahoo message the other day to tell me he'd seen me at my favorite course and I couldn't play for [*****] and I had no business being out there, along with some other derogotory comments. *sigh*
I'll never quit, though. I'm too hooked, LoL.

Rick,

Don't know whether or not you've seen the article in DGWN (Disc Golf World News) earlier this year (July?) about a girl scout troop that held a disc golf outing, but you may be able to get some useful ideas on the format for your event from the article. There's also a Suggestions for a DG Youth Program (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Board=Miscellaneous&Number=51107&Searchpage=0&Main=51107&Search=true&#Post51107) thread here on the board that may be helpful as well.

The last two women who to got into tourneys, around here, are a former college swimmer, and a former college softballer. I don't know about Emina, nor Laurie, also kinda recent.

If a child is young enough to need a chaperone, and there is divisioning, is the club in any way responsible for this safety aspect?

If eventday brings 8 Women and 4 Seniors, is that 3 x foursomes with a buffer hole following, or would 3W, 3W, 3S, 2W/1S over 4 pads work better? Is that kosher?

Is alternate shot the best format for Mixed?
Are shorter tees for the ladies in Mixed at all feasible?

If a child is young enough to need a chaperone, and there is divisioning, is the club in any way responsible for this safety aspect?


If your child is young enough to need to a chaperone, you need to be a parent and be prepared to do it.

I was fortunate when I started bringing Megan to tourneys: Michael Valdiserri was helping SoCal at the time and would walk with the under-12 division. But we haven't had any extra help on tournament days to offer that lately, so parents need to be prepared to do it.

Its funny that people mention pace of play, because in my only tournement experience, the women and juniors attending didn't hold anyone up, it was a bunch of whiny pro's who held up almost half of the feild.
At one point, we hackey-sacked for about a half hour while 7 cards piled up at the tee.
Sad.

it's even worse that people would give women and children attitude in a public park. Grow up.

I noticed that turnout. We might have to try and make a family road trip next year. :)

But there isn't much about the awesome Texas10 that is "normal" compared to regular DG tourneys. Himing is a fantastic over-achiever. It'd definitely be worth it for all SoCal disc golfers to pitch in and buy him a house in SoCal so he'd live out here run tourneys here. :D



Thanks Rhett. I look forward to seeing your family over here next year. I tell you what, I will pay your trip over here for the tournament if you get me that house over your way :D I always wanted to live in Huntington Beach but I guess San Diego would work.

I am looking forward to 21 Amateur women playing this Saturday at the Texas 10 Finals. Then on Sunday we expect about 10 Pro's for a great ladies turnout. Several of the players here are pregnant (due this week) otherwise it would be several more.

Thanks to all these girls for the support and thanks to the guys that play in these events that welcome and encourage them to play and have fun.

Rhett a 2 bedroom deal is fine.

Thanks
Chris

I know some tournies have juniors play in between rounds or after This allows them to play a their own pace at their own special course. Parents can also be there to help his or HER child stay focused an into what they are doing. It might also be encouraged for better adults to spectate and cheer.

ce



Lets change the term Soccer Mom to Disc Golf Mom or Dad

thank you!
i hate to hear from people the round was slow because they were waiting on the women. most of the time that is BS!
there was a big issue with this last year at the memorial.
the first round i was luckey enough to shoot with JK and on (i think hole 4 or 5) there was a huge backup. we were the first group of women.....so who are we wating on??? the open men. then to hear them complain about waiting? i was luckey enough to be in a group that did finish their round everyday. the women can tee of b4 the group of guys is done if its a 500 foot hole,cuz none of us are gonna reach them. but the guys who are waiting on the guys (which inevitably caused the backup) they have to wait till the hole is cleared out cuz they can throw that distance. my group didnt want to throw untill they were done though because we didnt want a "whiney" pro to be distracted.
hopefully they will do somethin abou those holes that caused the back up. i liked the mandos, but i dont think anyone liked havin to sit and wait for a half hour right after starting.

i have been tryin to come up with a good reason for why there are so few women in the sport. when i come up with you can be sure i will post it. i think the sport is so open for women. women get treated great (in my opinion) and where else can you go and have the female to male ratio at 1:99? i appriciate the ratio, but itd be sweet for it to be even.

I think the basic reason is that women, in general, don't feel compelled to get out show that they can kick each other's butts like guys are driven to do. I'm not saying all women and all guys, but in general.

I think our percentages are off, though. I think there are some things we can do to get more women playing, but I don't think it will ever be 50-50. Could defintely be better than 95-5.

I agree with bigminiarm. Women enjoy the outdoors and competition but not as much as men. Look at any outdoor sport, ball golf, fishing, hunting, baseball, and there are woman players just not an abundance. I used to date a woman who enjoys disc golf but didn't like to distrub the guys play and she felt like we were always waiting on her. Our group enjoyed her play but I couldn't convince her. In the few tournaments I play the woman players compete just as hard if not harder and seem th have more fun than the guys.
If anybody figures out how to get more woman playing let me know. More power to woman that play disc golf.
Long live both gender disc golf. :DJP

I think that if most of us guys would "RESPECT" women more, they would play more. It's gotta feel uncomfortable for a woman to show up on a course, and be gleered at and harrassed by the abundance of men (not all), even if the intent was not negative. It would be like a guy wanting to get into a quilting club. Sounds good until you are the only guy sitting there quilting, being analized by a large group of women.

I used to date a woman who enjoys disc golf but didn't like to distrub the guys play and she felt like we were always waiting on her. Our group enjoyed her play but I couldn't convince her.


My wife gets this way sometimes. I think it is because there are so many times that us guys (not us in particular, but us in general) act bothered by chicks being out there that this can happen even when the particular group of neanderthals like having the women play.

...where else can you go and have the female to male ratio at 1:99? i appriciate the ratio, but itd be sweet for it to be even.

I think it's closer to 7.5:92.5, but I get the point...sometimes I'll notice an 11-14% participation ratio, but those marks tend to get 'evened out' down the line :(

Thanks for the comments, all!

maybe the asisine (sp?) comments like : "good shot" when she knows as well as others there know it was not a good shot.

Those comments tend to tick me off too, but we all do it... try to build someone up who may be having a hard round.

Well, if you know she knows, then you wouldn't say that, eh? I think I 'get' what you mean, though...don't be condescending. Knowing the difference takes a bit of familiarity.

...since I'm in 'that mode' at the moment; I was quite appalled, yesterday, by the amount of times, AND decibel level, I heard "FREAK!" uttered/screamed by guys of whom I thought better...THAT is certainly NOT encouraging!

...like calling the rules, admonishing these [unthinking] outbursts is a thankless job. I do what I can; I trust others similarly concerned will [continue] to do the same. Thanks!

i definately hate the "nice shot" when it clearly sux.
but its all in good nature. i guess i do it too.

"Better to err on the side of...etc." ?!? Well, the shooter's ensuing countenance can give a clue...the comment is either appreciated, or not. That's what I insinuated by 'familiar'.

Girlie.
I guess I'll have to remember to comment on how bad all of your shots are (deserved or not) if ever we play. :cool:

I agree, I hate to hear "nice shot" when it was clearly a bad shot.

i definately hate the "nice shot" when it clearly sux.


So the question is, if I'm playing Dischick and she's beating me should I make sure I say "nice shot" and "not bad" when she hacks? Will it get in her head, or will it **** her off and make her play better?

Inquiring minds need ot know... :)

I agree, I hate to hear "nice shot" when it was clearly a bad shot.

I certainly concur; but people have different standards...if a parent brings a kid here, and it goes but 30ft., yet straight, that might elicit a "Whoo!". However, if someone [with whom I'm not familiar] throws a drive into the circle, but makes a grimace, they prolly wouldn't appreciate an 'attaboy'.

We all know that 'Nice Up' isn't always a positive remark :D (especially from 30 feet)

I think women get intimidated by playing with the men. I mean dont get me wrong i know a few women in MI who LOVE playing in the mens groups and dont really like playing with other women. But seriously lets look at this.

Me and 2 of my friends are playing a casual round at our home course and we come up on a female golfer playing by herself. Of course we ask her to play along. We then step up to a 550 foot hole that is fairly open and me and 1 of my friends step up and rip 450 ft drives and the other guys throws like 375. How do you think the girl who just joined our group is going to feel??? I would have to say intimidated no matter what we think or say.

All of us could care less if it takes her 2 or 3 throws to our one shot. We are just out there to have fun and throw some frisbees but she may be thinking wow if i dont throw it perfect these guys are going to get mad or blah blah blah whatever else she thinks we are going to think or say.

I for one would love to play casual rounds with a female golfer. The thing is that NEVER happens at my home course. The only female we see there is the one who used to run our league.

I have tried and tried some more to get girls to come out and play a round with me. No i dont give them my old plastic i have some 150 class stuff laying around and i even bought my ex some 150 class discs so i am prepared to play with a new female. We get to the course and start playing the short tees so that it will be more enjoyable for the new female. I throw my first drive and it lands 10 feet from the basket. Then i say "go ahead its your turn" the usual response is i feel stupid or i am going to suck or no ill just watch you. Then after a few moments of convinsing they finally throw their first shot. 8 out of ten times it a huge nose up sky hyzer RHBH. So we walk to the next shot and the same thing occurs. They say they dont want to throw or that they are embarrassed or something along those lines and they end up just picking up the discs i loaned them and walking with me :mad: This actually frustrates me more then them taking a 7 on every hole we play because i want them to actually play and have fun not just tag along while i shoot. I mean sure thats great sometimes but when i take a girl to show her the sport i want her to play not just watch.

So i say the way to get more women out is to start a WOMENS NITE or a WOMENS LEAGUE so they can all start out together and play with some women who they are not intimidated by. This way they can all think the suck together and have fun with it. Instead of playing with a bunch of guys who they are afraid they are going to look stupid in front of if they cant throw 350 ft. If they are playing with a couple other women who have never played and one who is decent they will have a better time and they can laugh at eachother instead of thinking they are getting laught at by us (big bad guyz) That way they want to play and want to get better but dont feel as much pressure or intimidation.

I for one would LOVE to see more women disc golfers.
I would have to say that it needs to get promoted more to the women who are already competitive in sports or who have been competitive before because some women just dont like to be in competition.

That us just my opinion i could be wrong.

Play opposite handed with catch plastic for a challenge. You play long tee and she plays short if you're still too good.

Yeah. Maybe when i take a new female out i will try and learn to play left handed with my discs. Then we can both learn together. Or she can atleast laugh at me :o

For whatever reason you may have, it's a good thing that you want to support women in disc golf cbdiscpimp and as a woman I thank you. :)

I'm not sure to what level you would like to support us, but the ladies who own Sassy Pants (http://www.sassypantsgear.com/) sponser women in disc golf in a unique way. They have created a Pass the Sass Fund (http://www.sassypantsgear.com/sponsorship2.html) to help female discers get to tournaments. :cool:

Hey Now Gnduke! Don't play ;) I mean let's play! :D Let's play soon - when are you leaving Texas? /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Hey girlie PM me some more info on how i can help support or maybe even sponsor a new female for a tournament.

God knows we need more women in this sport!!!!!!!!!!!!

I mean its cool to go out and play some golf with the guys but id like to be able to one day go out and play in a 4 some with 3 girls and myself but right now that **** near impossible unless your around the week before an NT event or your at Worlds.

PM me and fill me in on this sassy pants thing.

I think that some women don't like to play with guys that have bad additude . It's no fun to play on a card of guys that have bad jugment. The reason why I don't play junior's anymore is because there are not very many that play in california,so I paly rec. men.

Playing off-handed is a keen idea! :cool:Who laughs best?!? :D

I'm not going to rush out and buy any articles of women's clothing because of that deal, but hat's off to Sassy Pants! R-r-r-r-r-AD!!

I'm thinking Womens' leagues are a boffo idea, though. I'm hoping to hear some details about that, 'round here, official-like, <font size=2>QUITE</font> soon. I'll pledge to provide time, scorecards, do the math, and...well, I'll need more details, but prolly along the lines of "stay out-of-the way". ;)

i funnel energy in very strange ways.....not just in disc golf, but pool and darts as well.
if things from the "outside" world pi ss me off (that do not include disc golf) i tend to shoot on fire. versus if its golf, and im mad, nothin gets better.
if im havin a good day, i dont care how i am shooting. but we all always have more fun when shootin hot.
so rhett bring it on

mills, i dont think all women are intimadated by the guys who "throw farther" then them. even b4 i got into the scene and played casual, by myself, if i stepped up to a group and they invited me along, i thought it was pretty dam HOT if they could throw far, and/or accurately. i see it as a way of helping my game. afterall, if i ever win anything, i wanna beat people who are better than me.

crusher i agree with you 100%, no women like to play with guys who have bad attitudes. i can think of one person who i love to death as a friend, but golfing with them is torture. after every drive they scream obscenities, which the disc. board wont allow me to post. first of all it gets old, second i hate to see my boy beat up on himslf, and third, even though they are so mad, they still threw it like 500 feet, atleast 200 ft farther than my "good" drive. yes, that gets old. i understand we all get mad or can be too hard on ourselves, but it ruins my game to hear someone yelling FUNK OR SHI T after every drive.

i wont mention names, but you know who you are.

Girlie I don't know. It may be a while.

C'mon down for World Doubles next year.

so rhett bring it on


Where's yer smiley??? :)

Like I said, I need to know what to do when you're beating me. So it looks like I'll need to get you mad. :D

As for the distance thing, since you do come out and play tourneys you already aren't a "normal" chick. :) I think there is some validity to the thought that some women feel like they are holding up the group when they only throw half as far as the guys they're with. Probably not intimidated so much as not wanting to slow everybody down. Most of guys are usually pretty happy to have some women playing and don't mind, but how do you get the girls to believe you that it's no problem without them feeling patronized?

when i visit home with my fiance we often play de la veaga with her old high school friends. they are regular players of the course, playing many times a week. mostly we just play for fun, but to even the competition we do two things:
1) 'girl par': weaker players (not just girls, excuse the term, it's silly, but meant to be tongue in cheek) get +1 for par on every shot.
2) relative scoring: each shot no matter how bad or how good you do, you can only get a -1, a +1 or a 0. So if you throw a 5, two guys get par, 1 guy gets a birdie, and your drunk/stoned friend throws a 6 the birdie gets -1, the stoner gets +1 and everyone else gets 0. over 18 or more holes everyone has their bad shots, and everyone gets lucky. sometimes the weaker players do throw actual par forcing the others to go for birdies, and can even get the -1.

Then wait until the end when when the guys who threw mostly par complain about how they would have done better if you kept score normally. :D i agree with others here, mostly i see groups of 3-6 dudes playing rounds, sometimes i see wifes/girlfriends playing along, more rarely do i see a single girl or two playing with a group of dudes, and never have i seen a group of all or mostly women.

crusher i agree with you 100%, no women like to play with guys who have bad attitudes. i can think of one person who i love to death as a friend, but golfing with them is torture. after every drive they scream obscenities, which the disc. board wont allow me to post. first of all it gets old, second i hate to see my boy beat up on himslf, and third, even though they are so mad, they still threw it like 500 feet, atleast 200 ft farther than my "good" drive. yes, that gets old. i understand we all get mad or can be too hard on ourselves, but it ruins my game to hear someone yelling FUNK OR SHI T after every drive.

i wont mention names, but you know who you are.






I resemble that remark. You have to admit though i have gotten better. The thing is your the only person i seem to do this around when i play casual That is if you are talking about me???

If not then forget i even said anything.

more rarely do i see a single girl or two playing with a group of dudes, and never have i seen a group of all or mostly women.


An encouraging thing is that the few times play Morley lately, I now usually see a foursome of women playing. It's like the girls all met at the course to play a round instead of going there with their boyfriends/husbands. I think it is great and hope to see a lot more of that happening.

Garublador wrote:

�Why play disc golf with mom and/or dad when you can play baseball, football, soccer, basketball, track, wrestling, tennis, ball golf or volleyball with your friends at school?�

I spoke with a friend this past weekend (he was the one who introduced me to disc golf many years ago) about this issue. He didn�t have an opinion on why there are so few women disc golfers, but he did have an opinion on why there are so few junior players. He said something along the lines of what garublador wrote. He said that kids don�t tend to stay with disc golf over the long run, since there are many other sports that they can play. In addition, as a child grows older, each sport requires more and more time and commitment.

I know that Nicole would like to play disc golf more often, but her other sports require so much time and commitment. Maybe some other parents out there can relate to this. Right now Nicole�s main sports are soccer (fall & spring) and basketball (summer & winter). In soccer she plays for a top division one soccer club. Her team is one of the best in the city and is working on another undefeated season. She trains with professional trainers twice a week (1.5 hour sessions), and plays on the weekend. On her off days, she does speed and agility training. Basketball is starting to require a lot of training and commitment as well. In addition, she plays up in both sports, meaning she competes with older kids (for example, when she was 8 this past summer, she was playing basketball against 9 and 10 year olds). Since she is younger than the girls she competes against, she practices harder. During her 1st disc golf league, she had to go straight from soccer practice to the disc golf course. This required a sacrifice on her part (she is usually very tired after soccer training), but she insisted that she wanted to play disc golf league. She also plays tennis, golf, gymnastics, and swim team. But she does these on the side just for fun, not for serious competition.

In every sport Nicole plays, there are tons of kids for her to play with. She has good friends in every sport she plays. In fact, the main reason she plays some of her sports is so she can play with her friends (however most of her friends only play one sport). Disc golf is the only sport that has no other kids for Nicole to play with. She plays disc golf because she likes the sport. But she also plays because she is daddy�s little girl and we have a wonderful time together. I make sure that she understands that disc golf is something we do TOGETHER, not something that I do where she tags along. We work on improving her game as much or more than improving mine. I let her know that we are there for her to have fun, and for me to have fun with her. Her schedule is busier than mine, but we always try to find time to play. Hopefully she will always enjoy playing a round of disc golf with her dad

Nicole already wrote out a plan for a junior�s league, with different divisions and everything. She wants to plan it, organize it, and find sponsors to donate discs for the juniors to use (one midrange and one putter for each player). She wants to get some of her friends to start playing next spring and start the actual junior�s league next summer. I don�t know if she will follow through with the idea, but I told her that I will support her if she really wants to do it. So I guess we will have to wait and see.

Anyway, I just wanted to share my friend�s opinion. I also wanted to say that I understand the challenges of juniors who play other sports and want to play disc golf too.

Thanks���Rick

Back in the early 90s I had a successful summer park league with 11-13 year olds. A few stuck with it while others drifted away when they got jobs and discovered girls. One player in particular had a promising disc golf future by the time he was 15. However, he also happened to be good at soccer and hockey. The High School athletic director visited his parents and in essence called disc golf a 'trash' sport with no chance for a scholarship and Jason had such potential in the other sports but was wasting too much time playing disc golf. Jason disappeared and we finally saw him again a few years ago when he came back to play recreationally about 8 years later.

Why are there so few women and junior disc golfers?

No Amateur Classification... Yeah I know, but it is as true this time as it was every other time.

I think womens leagues are a great idea. We have one here in Madison WI, and all different types of skill levels come to play it. Alot more people will come out and play in league because they know no one will care if they suck. This helps them to be able to become better in a comfortable setting. Playing tournaments is another issue. I think women don't want to spend so much money just to play with one or two other women unless they really want to play to get better.

Bruce Brakel wrote:

�Kira will be excited to hear that there is a kid in Texas following her scores and trying to catch up. Kira has been trying to catch up with Kelsey and Kelsey's friends for four years, and has caught up with most of them.�

Bruce, I showed your post to Nicole last night and you should have seen her reaction. She was so excited that you were going to tell Kira about her. You definitely made her day! She said to tell Kira hi for her. Nicole will be playing in Ziegen Light Texas 10 Finals tournament this weekend (Nov. 13th) in Lewisville Texas. She will be playing in the recreational women�s division. She knows that she will be playing against grown-ups, so she fully expects to finish in last place. However, she said she is going to try her best just in case Kira checks on her scores (I thought that was so cute :)).

Anyway, thanks for your post. I found it very informative. I agree that I am sacrificing my personal disc golf time for Nicole. But I am having so much fun playing with her, that I am enjoying disc golf more than ever.

Thanks again���.Rick

Seems that playing as a Jr in PDGA events is much like playing as a women - the kid has to have a very strong individual and internal desire to play since there is very little opportunity to play "with others like you". (Unlike in something like a summer league where there are opportunities for social interactions.) Sounds like Nicole has it!

I thought that it was cool that Nicole found Kira. Can anyone suggest any way that my kids could figure out some others who are comparable to them ratings-wise? (Or comparable in age and experience.) I'm not even sure that ratings are really available for Juniors ... the kids have played in 4 PDGA events since September but none have official results up yet. (Or can anyone who follows this thread suggest their own kids for comparison - my boys are 12 and 14 and just started playing in June - Connor and Greg Thompson are their names.)

I would look at the Junior World Championship results to see a lot of active Junior players and their ratings. It doesn't show exact ages but you can approximate based on the divisions they entered based on age limits. There's link right on the PDGA Home page.

In the handicap league I play in each week, I'm almost always the only woman playing, except the past 3, 4 weeks.

When I first started playing, I unfortunately had the boyfriends heavy clunker Aviar which I hated throwing. I played (still do) rounds with a lot of pro men, including the boyfriend who taught me etiquette really fast. Heh. But now I have my own good plastic.

I still get a little intimidated playing with new people, More so with men then women. But I've been lucky so far. I've met some really nice people who have really helped my game.

I've noticed that some of the best players aren't usually so cocky and obnoxious, they are really soft spoken a nd totally mellow guys.

It's not so much gender thats an issue for me, its manners. It doesn't always have to ruin it as long as you can tune the trouble out, but when you have a good group, and good guidance, that makes for a really good experience. But I love playing with other women, its refreshing.

Last week I was without my boyfriend during the Bay Series, and this guy he knows who saw me yells out "hey!! where's your old man?" he's being all demanding! Like what am I doing without Bob?? Heaven forbid. :D

Also recently, after finishing a round with Neil Bondy and Pete Sontag (these guys are good examples of an ideal group mate) this loser says to my boyfriend "Man, your so lucky your girl plays with you" then he asks - "so how does she throw?"

I'm standing right there!!! My boyfriend didn't say anyhitng, and I just I said "I throw backhand" but I was obviously annoyed.

I don't thinkhe realized how lame he sounded.

I think your boyfriend's lucky that you go and throw with him also. I try to get my wife out whenever possible, and I love it when she plays. It's like a double whamee. Disc golf and time with my best friend.

Yeah, I thinkit's great way to spend time together. It's my favorite thing to do with him, it;s my favorite thing to do period. Disc Golf &amp; Bikram Yoga anyhow. :D

(yoga is great for your game!!! everyone should give it a try!)

I can see how it would not apeal to certain people. The game does have a weird learning curve. You get okay at it, then you plateau out for a while, then you have a few breakthroughs. It can be really mentally taxing.

The only problem with playing with my boyfriend is that I get really frustrated when Bob repeats certain things over and over again, and acts to much like a coach... It's like SHUT UP already!! :D But we've learned to set ceratin boundaries.

Back on topic - And this goes for all the guys trying to get their girlfriend/wife/transexual lady friend to play - Don't give them your heavy discs to start with. It makes it difficult, and it can be really discouraging when the disc always dives hard left, and you can't throw a turnover. Also, start them out at an easy course. My first round ever was at Novato, CA's Stafford Lake. It's one of the toughest in The Bay Area (besides DeLa). 1000 foor hole? I don't think so. :mad:

...start them out at an easy course. My first round ever was at Novato, CA's Stafford Lake. It's one of the toughest in The Bay Area (besides DeLa). 1000 foor hole? I don't think so. :mad:



Or how about that 400 foot +100 ft elevation first hole?? My girlfriend and I, both rank beginners, actually love to go to Stafford Lake together because it's so beautiful, and with very little traffic, unless you count deer. Sometimes we skip some holes, or play from our own made up tees to make certain holes more realistic, or even *shudder* not keep track of the number of throws.. :eek: I actually played hole 9 (1000+ ft) and it took me 9 throws! Woulda been 8, but I was a bit overzealous with my first putt attempt, and it blew by the basket. I imagine there are people who could get a 3 on that hole.

But yeah, Stafford is so hard it makes DeLa seem like Chabot Park in Hayward. ;)

...start them out at an easy course. My first round ever was at Novato, CA's Stafford Lake. It's one of the toughest in The Bay Area (besides DeLa). 1000 foor hole? I don't think so. :mad:




Or how about that 400 foot +100 ft elevation first hole?? My girlfriend and I, both rank beginners, actually love to go to Stafford Lake together because it's so beautiful, and with very little traffic, unless you count deer. Sometimes we skip some holes, or play from our own made up tees to make certain holes more realistic, or even *shudder* not keep track of the number of throws.. :eek: I actually played hole 9 (1000+ ft) and it took me 9 throws! Woulda been 8, but I was a bit overzealous with my first putt attempt, and it blew by the basket. I imagine there are people who could get a 3 on that hole.

But yeah, Stafford is so hard it makes DeLa seem like Chabot Park in Hayward. ;)



That first hole sttraight up the hill was my first time throwing a golf disc. I think my disc ended up landing some where 40 feet left of the tee. I will never forget that. Haha!!! It was like Disc Golf boot camp!

But I finished the round. :D


Funny you mention Dela and hayward - I haven't played either!

I've played Novato, SF (my home course, I hope it stays!!), Berkeley once, White bear Lake in Minnesota, Green (Grass?) Valley in St. Paul (thats about as hard a Stafford Lake, possible harder), one in Denver CO., and the course in Auburn CA,

That first hole sttraight up the hill was my first time throwing a golf disc. I think my disc ended up landing some where 40 feet left of the tee. I will never forget that. Haha!!! It was like Disc Golf boot camp!
But I finished the round. :D
Funny you mention Dela and hayward - I haven't played either!




wow, that's pretty impressive, playing a whole round at Stafford as your first dg experience!

Dela, as you've probably heard, is an awesome course, I have a hard time choosing between Dela and Stafford as the best local course, but I usually defer to Stafford just for the beauty of the course, and the low amount of traffic. Dela is so crowded, but it is for a reason, that course has every type of shot you can imagine, but it still manages to be quite beginner friendly. It goes from wide open, to tree alleys, to wide open over tree alleys, to wide open looking out onto the bay.

Chabot park on the other hand is kind of silly, but still fun; it has 9 holes, mostly between 100 ft and 250ft, there might be one over 300. It also has quite a healthy drug trade going on in the parking lot. Good for practice.

How's SF's course? I haven't made it there yet, though I remember walking by 3 kind of short, straight wide open holes on my way through the park once..

That first hole sttraight up the hill was my first time throwing a golf disc. I think my disc ended up landing some where 40 feet left of the tee. I will never forget that. Haha!!! It was like Disc Golf boot camp!
But I finished the round. :D
Funny you mention Dela and hayward - I haven't played either!




wow, that's pretty impressive, playing a whole round at Stafford as your first dg experience!

Dela, as you've probably heard, is an awesome course, I have a hard time choosing between Dela and Stafford as the best local course, but I usually defer to Stafford just for the beauty of the course, and the low amount of traffic. Dela is so crowded, but it is for a reason, that course has every type of shot you can imagine, but it still manages to be quite beginner friendly. It goes from wide open, to tree alleys, to wide open over tree alleys, to wide open looking out onto the bay.

Chabot park on the other hand is kind of silly, but still fun; it has 9 holes, mostly between 100 ft and 250ft, there might be one over 300. It also has quite a healthy drug trade going on in the parking lot. Good for practice.

How's SF's course? I haven't made it there yet, though I remember walking by 3 kind of short, straight wide open holes on my way through the park once..



San Francisco is a fun, challanging little course. Its 12 holes but the last three are wheelchair accesible (it was required to get the course approved)

but the other 9 are fron 200 at the shortest-400 feet at the longest. Each hole has 2 tees and 2 pin positions.

there are a few that are relatively unobstructed, but most of them have tight alleys or you have to throw through the woods! But these shots have good hyzer and turnover options as well. There are a few elevation changes. It's kinda wacky.

my favorite hole is hole 4, from the long tee you want to throw an anhyzer make past a few trees to the right and then have it fade left at abut halfway down. An S shot basically.Half way down the fairway, it goes from a little down hil to down hill, and the pin is nestled between some trees a shrubs, with abou t30 feet of clearence surrounding it.
Its not really an ace run, but my boyfriend Aced it three weeks ago!

Anyway, thats my favorite shot, its one of the few holes I can I can drive almost the whole way to the pin from the short tee. :) My best drive ever is probably just short of 200 feet, maybe a little more.

I can't wait to go to Dela, we don't have a car so we don't have many opportunities.

I didn't get into DG until a few months ago. I play at the Temple course and have to say that everyone i have met there has been very nice and polite to me. I haven't met any women there yet but look forward to meeting some. When i played last Saturday there was a group of guys ahead of me and they were even going to let me play through. I have even been frustrated enough to ask myself why i am playing....but am competitive enough to keep playing. A Pro DG woman has been a great supporter of keeping me playing and telling me to hang in there and keep playing.

DG is not promoted enough. I didn't learn about it until i met a guy who was into it and didn't start playing until a rec woman got me out on the course. I think it is a great sport whether or not you are playing casual or tournament. More women should play. I think it is great that TD's like Himing kudos the women at tounaments. Word gets around and women want to play his tourney's (which i will next year).

My youngest son has even caddied for me and likes to go out and toss plastic around with me from time to time. I think that even though i have not been playing for long this is a great time for us to do something together. I even plan on taking him with me next year to some tournaments. Couldn't ask for a cuter caddie ;)

To all the women who play, it is a great thing that you do....to all the men who play, what would you do without us to add more beauty and skill to the game :D

I would like to say thanks to the guys who let me play with them today! Thanks to Nick for being my partner. I enjoyed playing with you and look forward to playing again. It is all about having fun and I did!!

Thanks! :D

San Francisco is a fun, challanging little course.
my favorite hole is hole 4 ... its one of the few holes I can I can drive almost the whole way to the pin from the short tee. :) My best drive ever is probably just short of 200 feet, maybe a little more.

I can't wait to go to Dela, we don't have a car so we don't have many opportunities.



My best drive is probably ~225ft, and that was with a little anhyzer and a left-to-right tailwind. What do you throw? I throw RH and use an X Comet for straight and right turns, an X Storm for straight and left turns, and a Z XS for sidearm. Actually, sometimes I just keep it simple and play with my XD putter. I use a fan/pinch grip, because anything stronger tends to lead to grip lock. :confused:

This week is a great week. I played Stafford Lake today, and managed some pars, will play De LaVeaga on Thanksgiving, and hopefully SF on Saturday or Sunday. Yeah...

I play in the junior division and the only juniors I see in tournys are me and my friends ussually.

I have a reasons why there are not as many women playing. reason one some guys mostly complain about how women play so slow . we don't want want to hear it so keep it to yourselves. :p

Megan...I don't complain...You're a good player, and when you get your woman muscles you'll have to change your screen name to just CRUSHER :D

i am not talking about you. i am just saying in general most guys complain.

I actually think there are quite a few female and junior players.however , most are more casual players and not involved in organized competition.Then again there are thousands of golfers in the city i live in!!

that is tue

I agree, Meagan. Also, hearing stuff like "you throw like a girl" or when I do well on a course it's "dang, you let Susan beat you". That drives me crazy. I usually ignore it but sometimes........