My friend Steve (actually him and a few other of my other friends) say that any throw from the tee box that goes in the basket is an ace. So they proceed to throw every disc in their bag at short holes to try to get their coveted "ace". I say that any person can sit there with a stack of discs and throw until they get it the first time. I say that the only true aces are the ones that are thrown on the first throw from the tee. They still only play the first disc thrown (scorewise) but if they happened to throw their 5th disc into the basket, they would call it an ace. What side would you guys take in this argument?

First shot is an ace.

All others are "mulli-aces". Fun, but not a real ace.

If it's not a tournament or league, it doesn't count. All other throws are practice throws.

I like to limp-reraise with Aces in early position, but I'll bet at least 4 or 5 times the big blind in later position, even more if there are multiple callers. The preflop advantage with Aces is highly diminished when you have too many players seeing the flop.

Oh wait, sorry, wrong message board. :o

If it's not a tournament or league, it doesn't count. All other throws are practice throws.



This makes it seem that the only reason for playing disc golf is to play in tournaments. Some people will play disc golf all their lives without ever playing in a tournament. Just as some people play ball golf without ever playing in tournaments.

The reason they play is to have fun. And while they're having fun, if they throw a disc from the tee into the basket, they're going to turn around and say to people that they've just thrown an ace. Just as in ball golf, if someone plays a round and scores a hole in one, they're going to slap some high-fives celebrating that.

Really, it's going to be hard to grow this sport, as so many want, if you only "count" what happens in tournament play. Let's call an ace an ace when they happen and allow people to enjoy them whatever the setting.

Speaking as someone who is a member of the PDGA but has yet to play a tournament or throw his first ace...

websters:
The act of hitting a golf ball in the hole with one's first shot.

so if they throw 5 times from the box, and the 5th one sticks, that is his 5th shot, so no it is not an ace.

I like to limp-reraise with Aces in early position, but I'll bet at least 4 or 5 times the big blind in later position, even more if there are multiple callers. The preflop advantage with Aces is highly diminished when you have too many players seeing the flop.

Oh wait, sorry, wrong message board. :o



I like the way you think!

websters:
The act of hitting a golf ball in the hole with one's first shot.

so if they throw 5 times from the box, and the 5th one sticks, that is his 5th shot, so no it is not an ace.



Well, if you want to play dueling dictionaries, my Random House says that a golf ace is "a shot in which the ball is driven from the tee into the hole in one stroke." That definition allows for any of the throws to be called aces if any one of them is successful from the tee.

Dictionaries, shmictionaries, right?

These players were having something like a home-run derby, except it was an ace derby, and they were just having fun. No, baseball stats don't count home-runs that occur during a home-run derby, they count them during games. But we in disc golf don't capture and publish lifetime stats like how many aces did a player throw -- if we did, I'd probably be a little more hard-nosed about this, too.

As it is, I'm thinking they can go ahead and count them as aces. I doubt they made very many, even by that method. Heck, if getting an ace is so important, I know a course with a 110-foot hole that probably makes getting an ace really easy, even if you don't throw multiple times from the tee. Just knowing someone got an ace tells you little about how hard or lucky it was to get it.

I cut my teeth on Winton Woods, a **** short course by today's standards. I have so many aces I quit counting 15 years ago.
However, something akin to your situation happened last month, and I got an ace, dammit! When I play casual, and no one's behind me, I'll often throw a "what if" second shot. This is how I get to know different shots for the same holes. I've recently started throwing sidearm quite well. I was playing Harbin a few weeks back. No one behind me. Some holes I just took one tee shot. Some I emptied the bag. I had a particularly horrible tee shot on a short hole (yes, I always play from my first tee shot; took a 3 on the hole). On about the fourth shot, a sidearm, it went in! My first sidearm ace. That counts every bit as much as the several dozen before it, in my eyes.

websters:
The act of hitting a golf ball in the hole with one's first shot.


websters:
The act of hitting a golf ball in the hole with one's first shot.

Hmm ... interesting. What edition are you using, Nix? Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary (11th ed.) defines "ace" as "a golf score of one stroke on a hole; also : a hole made in one stroke." So does Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=ace&x=15&y=15)

Webster's Online Dictionary defines "ace" as "3. Play in one stroke; of holes, in golf." (http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/english/ac/ace.html)


so if they throw 5 times from the box, and the 5th one sticks, that is his 5th shot, so no it is not an ace.

So I suppose the next time you play Cali in doubles and your disc goes in the basket on your second throw from the teepad, you're not going to mark a 1 on your scorecard and you won't accept the ace pot because it was your second shot from the teepad? :D

I'm going to have to disagree, Dan. If you limp with rockets then you risk someone coming in with trash and making a straight or flush on you. Put out a decent bet to scare away the trash hands and let everyone who thinks they have a good hand run head first into your great hand.

Dixon, I'll only try the limp reraise if I know there's an aggressive player to my left that will most likely raise. From there I reraise 3 or 4 times what he brought it up to. If I'm at a table full of rocks, then of course I fire away.
A guy I know has a great saying - "The only thing worse than losing with pocket Aces is not winning big enough with them."

We have always played doubles with the understanding that if you are the "oddman" and throw a second shot "ace", you get the "1" on the scorecard, but not the ace pot (afterall, everyone else only gets one chance per hole at the ace pot).

I would only count the first throw from any tee as an ace. Emptying your bag and getting an 'ace' on the 5th shot needs to be kept in a different column on your lifetime stats sheet. Two of my buddies have made a second shot ace and when asked how many aces they have they respond "2 legit aces and one 2nd shot ace" ...

Jim - please don't bring tournament or mini's into the equation. There are so many of us that never play tournaments or mini's but still log over 100 rounds a year.

My point is that if it's not a competetive round, then it's all "practice". 1st shot or 5th shot off the tee.

My point is that if it's not a competetive round, then it's all "practice". 1st shot or 5th shot off the tee.



If you don't compete in tournaments, then what are you "practicing" for?

Practice for me is quite different than doubles, tags, skins, or even a casual round. Sure, in a way they are all practice, but so are PDGA rounds in that light!

Practice is going to a feild and cranking it towards a distant tree again and again and again. It is throwing 200 100 foot anhyzers at a target. It is putting 100 times a day in your basement. And generally speaking it is something none of us do enough of... /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif ;) :)

This entry matches pretty much the way I see it as well. There are different kinds of aces. I have many aces, but none of them were during sanctioned PDGA play. All were during casual rounds. If I threw five discs at a hole and the 5th one went in, I would say "hey, I made an ace during practice today" and describe the circumstances, but to me, it's the ones that happen during a round that count. It doesn't have to be during a sanctioned tournament to be counted towards one's personal total. That being said, any total given should differentiate between tournament aces, casual round aces, practice aces, unwitnessed aces, etc. In the end, whether any of these are aces or not is a personal thing.

This one is easy. If your first shot goes in, it's an ace. If your second (or 3rd etc.) shot goes in, it's a mulligan ace. A TRUE ace is the first throw from the tee-pad.

Anyone could ace a short hole after throwing a box of discs at it, right? With each successive shot you better learn the weight, therefore making the chance of an ace more likely.

So a true ace can only be the first throw, when you don't have muscle memory working for you - just whatever memory you, as a somewhat fuzzed-out discgolfer have left.

As for doubles, what a stupid argument to make. When the format dictates that both players throw each given shot, including the tee-shot, of course the second tee-shot counts!

It's a format thing, not an exception to the hard fast rule which we all now know - an ace is an ace. If you empty the bag and the last one goes in, call it an ace if it makes you happy, but what is your heart telling you? It's just not a 'clean' ace is it? Mr brother hit one a few weeks ago on his 6th throw and while he was happy, he wasn't jumping up and down....

"There is no I, there is no opponent...."
Bruce Lee

you can call a penny a dime but at the end of the day it's still a penny :D

Anyone could ace a short hole after throwing a box of discs at it, right? With each successive shot you better learn the weight, therefore making the chance of an ace more likely.


What does the likelihood of making an ace have to do with calling an ace an ace?

Everyone who practices, using whatever method, should increase their chances to make an ace. Right?

Anything from tee pad to basket is an ace. I dont care if you throw 50 drives at it in a row it would be the same as playing 50 rounds there and getting it on your 3rd round. An Ace is an ACE is an ACE. Tee pad to basket is an ACE.

I wont pay you for a second or third drive ACE but its still an ace :D

Lotsa people arguing about this and gee whiz, ain't it fun? Bear with me and keep up, there's a quiz next week.... ;-)

Some simple definitions, math, and philosophy to help more clearly define a Disc Golf Ace. Which, I've you've ever had one, is possibly the best feeling in the world. It simply depends how long you've waited since your last one.

Zen and the Art of Thrower-psycho Mulligans.

Your Drive, the one that COUNTS in your round, whether it's fun golf or Worlds or whatever, is the first one. Lets call it (D) for short.

After every (D), your disc will be at rest somewhere (your lie) which we can call (R), for result. (R)'s main property is the sum of (D) plus envirionmental factors (E). Every time you throw a shot this (R) property is exhibited and the disc ends up EXACTLY where you threw it, and no place else. Isn't that deep?

If the drive has an extremely positive result (ie in the basket) what are the chances that you're going to say "dammit, I'm throwing a mulligan." Not too good probably. Therefore, an ace is rarely followed by a Mulligan (M).

Mulligan (M) = a shot thrown after your first one. Therefore, it doesn't count towards your round. So if you get an ace with a mulligan throw, you can't write down a 1. But is it an ace?? Hang on, we're getting there....

If (R) is negative (ie lie is quite far from the basket), another, tertiary property of (D) is revealed - the possibility of an (M) appearing. Mulligan potential is calculated by multiplying the following factors - result of (D), player skill, degree of casuality and success of round being played, wife-waiting-at-home-factor (the uncertainty principle), mulligan already thrown by buddy factor, and several other minor factors. If (M) is more than .725 then there is a better than 92.7% chance the given player will throw a mulligan. (M) can be expressed as (R)2(D)2 (your second drive and your second lie).

So we finally get the the thick of things. Very rarely is your (D)rive an Ace, which we'll call (A). An (A)ce is physically the (R)esult of the right disc, a lucky wind, and the right throw. We can call these factors (P), for Perfection. (R)esult + (P)erfection = (A). But can (A) be arrived at with (M) in the equation? Well, let's see about that.

Hmmmmmm. It follows then, that

(D)rive + (E)nvirionment = (R)esult
and
(R)esult + (P)erfection = (A)ce

Don't forget,
(M)ulligan = (R)2(D)2

And here's the rub -
(A)ce cannot = (M)
because
(M) = (R)2(D)2, not (R) + (P)

(A) disappeared when your first shot missed the basket. As soon as (M) reared it's ugly head, (R)2(D)2 showed up to spoil the (P) and disturb the (E).

So (D)(R)(E)(A)(M) on if you think any attempt after your first one counts as an Ace. No matter what you do, you can't argue with the facts.

Professor Rip Van Anhyzer
Chair, Department of Insanity
University of Zero Gravity
Orbital Station 42

Dude ... that was ... like ... ummm ... nevermind, I don't even know what to say :cool:

I just happened to get a "mulligan" ace while warming up for the 2nd round of a tournament this weekend. Was throwing multiple drives to get warmed up, and one of them went in.

I made a throw from a tee to a basket. That's the definition of an Ace. I didn't get any money from it, but it was still an Ace.

So, what if I decide to play holes 1 & 10 over and over and over (only taking one drive on each) instead of playing a full round of 18?

If I ace hole 1 on my third try (my 5th hole of the day), does it count?

Yup, that would count, because it was your first throw at that tee-box. You're playing a round, right? An Ace is a ace in an ace..... but if you ace a hole on any throw after your first, you've used all the previous throws to establish weight, angle, etc. and therefore it's not a true ace.

If you can't count it on your score for the hole, you can't count it as an ace, can you? As you know, the second one always goes in ....

I just happened to get a "mulligan" ace while warming up for the 2nd round of a tournament this weekend. Was throwing multiple drives to get warmed up, and one of them went in.

I made a throw from a tee to a basket. That's the definition of an Ace. I didn't get any money from it, but it was still an Ace.



Doens't "Ace" mean "one," as in you score a 1 for that hole (i.e. one throw from the teebox to the basket)? If it's your third throw it would mean you scored a 3 so how could it be an "ace?"

It doesn't have to be in a tournament, but you do have to follow the rules to get an ace.

It would probably be more than a 3 because the rest are practice throws and wouldn't count except for adding strokes.

I agree with what garublador wrote above, (and all the other similar posts) An Ace only REALLY counts when its your first shot.

I mean really, emptying out your bag on a short dinker hole. Do your ego's need that much boosting. Some rinky dink courses that exist I don't even count when I get an Ace. When people ask how many Ace's I have gotten, I say 1. I never mention the 6 I got in 1 day on a <100 foot hole in Winton Woods.

Doens't "Ace" mean "one," as in you score a 1 for that hole (i.e. one throw from the teebox to the basket)? If it's your third throw it would mean you scored a 3 so how could it be an "ace?"

It doesn't have to be in a tournament, but you do have to follow the rules to get an ace.



How could I score if it it was a casual practice throw. And where are these rules for non- tournament throws?

websters:
The act of hitting a golf ball in the hole with one's first shot.

so if they throw 5 times from the box, and the 5th one sticks, that is his 5th shot, so no it is not an ace.



After the first throw (1), each throw is a "practice throw" which is a one stroke penalty(2), plus the throw itself (3). At that point I would start saying, "Nice par, double bogey, quadruple bogey.... etc"

Doens't "Ace" mean "one," as in you score a 1 for that hole (i.e. one throw from the teebox to the basket)? If it's your third throw it would mean you scored a 3 so how could it be an "ace?"

It doesn't have to be in a tournament, but you do have to follow the rules to get an ace.



How could I score if it it was a casual practice throw. And where are these rules for non- tournament throws?



If you don't follow the rules of disc golf then how do you know you're playing disc golf? Why not just make up your own rules and terms and call every throw from the teebox an ace? I could say I shot 36 under par if, for my rules, I defined par as 2 over what I threw for a hole. According to your argument, you'd have to acknowledge that I can consistantly shoot 36 under par simply because I said so.

In other words, sure you can make up your own definitions for disc golf terms, but they won't mean anything to other golfers. For everyone to speak the same language you all have to follow the same rules.

One time when I was discing alone I threw this shot that nailed the chains. As I was screaming "WHO'S YOUR DADDY" at the top of my lungs the disc fell out to the ground. I looked around and didn't see anyone. I started thinking to myself that I really wanted that ace so I began to pretend that I actually got one. After about an hour or so of doing this I actually believed that I did get an ace on that hole. And I'm going to tell everyone that I got another ace the other day. Because I really did get one. Yep. :cool:

For me, aces don�t come around very often. I have been playing for about 7(?) years, and I only have two. Neither one was in a tournament so some of you might say they don�t count. These two aces were on the same hole, at my home course, about three years apart, and I will never forget either of them. I am not going to rehash the details, but I will say this hole is very short, and not very exciting, but still, both shots will be called ace till the day I die!!!!! I can still see them flying through the air and catching chains. I still remember jumping up and down and screaming both times, slapping high fives with my buddy Chad, and yellin some more. In the world of disc golf, this is one of the best feelings there is, period!

Yesterday I was throwing a round again, with my friend Chad. We play very competitively (no extra throws, no mulligans, just good old fashioned disc golf) and keep score every time we play, on paper, with no cheating. Well, yesterday, Chad was losing, and on hole twelve, he threw his Buzzz on a fairly short hole and missed completely, right after my shot was right under the pin. He was mad! So he reached in for his Wasp (the disc I just threw). I love to watch this disc fly, long slow hyzer. Halfway there I said �there it is�, then bam!!! It stuck. We started yelling just like we do on every ace either of us hits, because it WAS an ace! Oh, maybe not in every sense of the word, or the true meaning, but it was an ace! We laughed, screamed, and high fived some more. It was great!!

Of course, when I wrote down his score, I wrote 3! ;)

I get aces all the time. I take my putters out and stand about three feet from the basket and toss em in. One shot, that's an ace right? :D

That ace I got on my third throw from the tee box makes up for all those times I've thrown in an open field without the benefit of a basket to know how close I would have been otherwise. When I threw that mulligan in, I still got a three on the hole from my first shot. I know how to keep score. I won't cheat myself into thinking I scored better by playing personal "best disc". Anyone who would tell me I didn't get an ace because of a silly technicality should look at the way they practice. You have a subconscious problem with your own game, and you're trying to project it onto me. http://pages.prodigy.net/indianahawkeye/newpage04/10.gif

I get aces all the time. I take my putters out and stand about three feet from the basket and toss em in. One shot, that's an ace right? :D



If that's the only way you can ace, fine. The rest of us define an ace as a throw from a tee into it's corresponding basket.

Do you guys think its weird if I bring all my 50 discs to this course by me that has like an easy 200ft hole and throw them all ?

what if i video tape it?

ok, lets say you get bored one day, take 10 discs, and PLAY 10 rounds at the same time. 1 or more of those discs goes ace on an hole, would they be legit aces ?

ok, lets say you get bored one day, take 10 discs, and PLAY 10 rounds at the same time. 1 or more of those discs goes ace on an hole, would they be legit aces ?

Playing multiple rounds concurrently, keeping score separately for each, is common around here, esp. during the fall and winter when daylight is at a premium. It's also an efficient use of practice time.

I, as do most, consider any ace hit under those conditions legitimate.

This is an interesting thread fo' sheezy.

Part of the thrill that comes with carding a '1', is because of it's rarity and multitude of determining factors. I have three aces in 8 years. I also have one second shot ace, but when asked I reply "3". We can argue all day about the definition of a golf ace. I find it much more impressive that someone picked the right disc and threw the right shot, with the right angle and power - the first time. Second, third, etc. shots allow you to compensate for whatever your first shot didn't do right. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of times that I throw two and three times after my initial tee shot, but it's just for fun. It's still very cool and exciting to see a tee shot go in, regardless of which throw it was. Somebody put a poll up here (I don't know how) and let's get a consensus on the matter. :)

Acton, Where did you get that disc that's your avatar. Sooooo cool!

I don't have any aces. I did witness one that was on a made up hole we would play on our way off the course. It wasn't a "legit" hole because it wasn't on the course map/design, but it was a legit par three when played, so I still consider the shot i witnessed and ace.

It was his first drive, and the first drive of the day on that hole.

I think mulligan aces are exzactly that. Mulligans.
I would still love to have one under my belt though. :D

I'll start a poll just for fun if I can figure out how, but for now it seems the consensus (and common sense) is that the first shot from a tee to a target is an Ace. It doesn't matter if you're alone, if you taped it, if you got a satellite image of it from big brother, or even if it's a legitimate 95 foot hole on a weird course somewhere. If your first shot goes in, celebrate! If your second (and therefore a practice) shot goes in, nice work, real pretty and all, but it's still only a mulligan Ace.

Poll in the works.

Asimov was the best BTW, and he was dead on. I know this isn't the thread for this, but please guys, don't re-elect a guy who starts wars. It, like, isn't very cool, regardless what's going on in that country. It, like, isn't your business until the UN says so. It's called democracy and I really hope you can elect a leader who has a firm grip on that concept.

Ah, forget it. One man can't influence world events that much, can he? If he can, we're all in trouble so it doesn't matter then anyways.

If it was your current guy versus a dead fish, I'd vote for the fish before even asking how long he'd been dead. Kinda like Ashcroft - he lost to a dead guy!!! So he has to be conveniently appointed to keep him in the old boys club. Now THAT is comedy!!

R. Daneel Olivaw

Yes but Daneel would never have played DG, he wouldn't have wanted to beat a human and thus leave them disheartened (remember the three laws of robotics).

On the other hand, Daneel would never have approved of our current political situation, but he would have loved the perfection of an Ace. :D

I always like to walk up to certain tee's on my favorite course and tell the people with me that "this is an acehole."

It makes me sound real refined, even if I'm not wearing a collared shirt. :D

I have a shot for a deuce that's longer than any ace I've ever thrown. I cherish that deuce more than most of the aces I've thrown.

Separately, I have deuced Hole 11-C at Seneca... I cherish that more than any of my 8 aces. Any hole I've ever aced... there have been hundreds before and hundreds after on that same hole.

I only know 1 other person whose deuced 11-C at Seneca.

To me, it's all about probability. But to most, it's all about how they interpret words like "ace" and "deuce". I doubt I'll convince anyone that some deuces are better than some aces. In my book, an extremely low probability deuce is more rewarding than an ace that gets hit all the time.

I have a shot for a deuce that's longer than any ace I've ever thrown. I cherish that deuce more than most of the aces I've thrown.




i know what you mean,i got a couple deuce's that went through mega tree lines zig zaging the whole way that where way cooler than a ace :D

I have one ACE that i consider to be a GREAT ACE.

At my home course or Cass Benton i aced number 8 from the short pad. Its 390 FT. And there is a huge bushy tree in the middle of the fairway so you cant go straight at it. The only way to ace is it to throw a huge turn or a flexing S shot. I have hit the basket 2 and aced it once. This is a great ace because to my knowledge no one else has EVER aced this hole. :eek: :D:D:D

I have a second shot on a par save that i like better then my other 2 aces. I only have three but then again i dont ever TRY and get aces. I always try and throw shots that end up UNDER the basket not inside it. In my opinion unless you say hey im TRYING to ace this and ace is just a bad shot that got lucky. :p

Who cares what other people think? If you think it is an ace, then by golly it is. So everyone on this thread is right in my opinion, except for anyone out there that is mean. I don't like mean people.

I agree, some aces are over-rated. Especially ones that happen on short holes that get hit all the time. An ace on a hole that rarely gets hit is a LOT more special.

As for deuces, they can be just as good or better cause there's rarely any doubt - you were going for chain.

A long (or tricky) deuce is a sweeeet thing - at a tourney a few years ago, I was playing a par 4 which had a mando, an uphill tee-pad with no run-up, and which was just plain long. I got a huge drive off (about 150 meters with a CE Valk) and it cleared the mando and left me about 75 meters away. My second shot (probably a ROC) hit dead center for a rare eagle!! Even better, they had a cash prize for an eagle, which I didn't find out about until the awards were handed out.

Aces, ya they're nice, but it's true that they're kinda lucky cause we're all playing for birdies most of the time aren't we? I know I'm usually just trying to get under the basket....
--------------------

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Guess who gave us that gem? Do YOU have any weapons down there Georgie-poo? You wouldn't attack anyone, would you? Then you wouldn't be free anymore... and we'd all have to pay for it...

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