I am a right handed sidearm thrower looking for a little more distance but mostly for some approach help. I first began throwing sidearm because i wasnt getting the D with my backhand. Now it is rare that I throw BH off the tee. I have been trying out different approaches with moderate success. I have seen lots of articles and help for BH throwers but not much for the SA crew. I mainly throw a 172 CE Valk, but also use a 167 Pro Teebird and a 175 CE Orc.

throw it straight. The CE is a good disc and is kinda advanced. I would through the Teebird as it will be easier to get more D with. The main thing is throw it straight. When you put the heat on it, it is gonna turn over....so throw it at the basket and it will turn over, straighten out and then fade back to your original line. The Ce is a great disc but while perfecting your throw will be harder to figure out. If you are putting alot of power on it .....it will just turn over and hold it under alot of conditions. I suggest perfecting the T-bird and then try different discs.

I would say the Orc is your best shot at getting distance because of the high speed and overstability. I also threw mainly sidearm for a while. I started off just taking a couple of steps and keeping my elbow at my side making sure to keep this disc flat. When I got that down good, I started using a run-up and letting my elbow pull away from my body so it's more like a sidearm pitching motion. At release, I'm facing about 45 degrees to the right of the target (RH). I'm still not as accurate this way, but I get more distance. This throw will also require a disc with more stability as you will start to turn everything over. Last year I started throwing a lot more backhand and finally figured it out. I would reccomend working on your backhand to bring that around as there is potentially more distance in that. Otherwise, there is supposedly a Stokely video that has some good sidearm technique on it.

I agree....learn back hand. I started with a side arm and got realy good with it within about 6 months. Around 8 months I learned back hand and now i am learning thumbers and tomahawks. I can get 375-400 with both FH / BH. It is good to have different throws down. Just take your time and learn them correctly.

The Orc is a good FH disc, but if you ever get the chance, pick up an Illusion. They are the perfect blend of speed and stability allowing you to really BOOM one out there. Plus, as they break in, you'll find them to be your longest disc for BH too!

where does most of the power come from when throwing sidearm? from the arm/shoulder? from the elbow? from the wrist?

a couple of weeks ago i was practicing sidearm on a field, and getting over 200 ft consistently, but I was taking several steps, and putting a lot of arm and shoulder into it, and eventually it really made certain muscles sore (mostly the shoulder blade area, and the triceps). I kind of injured myself, so I'm reluctant to use that method again. Since hurting myself I've moved to backhand, and I'm making progress; I can throw much farther, but with little accuracy, and what's more, my heart's not in it as much as sidearm.

From what a lot of the sidearmers on this board say, it sounds like you can get really good distance with a much smoother motion, with one step, or no steps at all. But I can't seem to figure it out. I started practicing it again, with an elite x xs and more effort to make a smooth motion, but I just get these piddly little throws between 100 and 150 feet. Also, I need 2 steps, 1st step right foot to get my (right) arm cocked back in position, and 2nd to add momentum when I throw. I try to lead with my elbow, and add a little wrist snap at the end. Oddly, before I started trying to muscle out shots, I was practicing this smoother motion with a ~175 g soft buzzfly putter, and throwing accurately over 150 feet. I guess I just lost it. :(

keep your elbow in by your hip and snap it with your wrist and fore arm. This is my technique which gets me past 300 evry time and has little stress on the rest of the body. Never heard of an illusion but I will keep my eye out. Another thing that use to mess me up was concentrating to much on the angle of the disc. If you hold it with 2 fingers against the rim and not to firm the g-forces will straighten the disk out during the throw. As long as you trow it straight and not up, it will be sure to get out there. Let me know if this helps any.

never heard of the illusion, just keep your eyes peeled he mentions it on every post lol, :eek:

Grunion, we don't get much gateway in Texas

ahhhh its a gateway disc...did not know that chuy. So thats why I have never heard of it. Hear in Texas we use cow patties for drivers. I have been known to ace a pattie on a daily basis but it has the problem of falling apart upon impact. Get ur [*****] up here Chu man fu!!!

with your elbow in at the hip, what angle does your forearm make with your torso? is it supposed to be even with your body? slightly in front? slightly behind?

I keep it kinda locked and parallel with the ground. I realy do not read to much into it. dont try to do an awkward position. Just do what is natural with the elbow in at the hip. Kinda like throwing a baseball sideways. Just gotta get in the field to know what I am talking about. Keep asking your friends and trying new techniques and youll get that one rip and know what all the hype is about.

yeah, i can't wait for that to happen! i guess i just need more practice and more patience. unfortunately, every single one of my disc golf playing friends throws bh, so i can't get much help from them. it's like when i used to skateboard and was the only goofy footer, and we'd go to all these skate spots that were great for regular stance. the frustration! :) actually, as soon as i get a little more confident i plan on joining in one of those weekly casual $5 tournaments, and seeing if i can get some advice from some more advanced palyers.

I use a left handed X-step. Bassically a mirror image of what I do on a normal backhand. I try to use a disc that is just stable enough for the shot I want to make.

Everyone has different tastes on what to throw off the tee. Most people would say use the most high speed stable disc you can. It's a good tip if you're just learning or don't really throw them often. If you really want to get good with the sidearm, get a neutral flying disc and learn how to control it.

I have been using a beast since day one. That and the Valk are my favs!!!!!

oh, interesting about the x-step, i've mostly heard people say to face forward and throw, i'll have to try that.

next time i can find one in the appropriate weight, i'll be getting a shark, which seems as neutral as they come. i was practicing with my XD, though, and i noticed i was having more trouble with my grip because the disc is so much deeper than most of my drivers.

Yeah the Shark would be good, or a Lepoard.

I don't know that the X-step really does any good with my throw, but I do it anyways. Gotta work the other half of the brain, ya know :cool:

Sabres (Again, a Gateway disc) are neutral too. Just ask Graham, he can confirm this. They are faster than Sharks though, and make a great transition from Midrange to Driver. Another (Non Gateway) disc that I found was pretty neutral, was the Aurora MS by Millenium. I used to be able to put this anywhere I wanted, and the Sweedish kid that won my division at Worlds did the same.

Hey, thanks for the tip. I'm actually planning on buying a Sabre pretty soon. I'm not quite ready to buy discs on-line yet, I need to be able to hold, and grip a disc before I'm comfortable shelling out hard earned cash. It's pretty difficult to find discs in stores around here under the 170g range, and when they do have them they seem to be the more beginner oriented discs. So I think I'll be able to find a light Shark, but I haven't even seen the Sabre in any weights..

Hey, thanks for the tip. I'm actually planning on buying a Sabre pretty soon. I'm not quite ready to buy discs on-line yet, I need to be able to hold, and grip a disc before I'm comfortable shelling out hard earned cash. It's pretty difficult to find discs in stores around here under the 170g range, and when they do have them they seem to be the more beginner oriented discs. So I think I'll be able to find a light Shark, but I haven't even seen the Sabre in any weights..



I gotcha. As far as getting Sabres, you can get any weight you want from the shop. Just give Justin a shout: [email protected]

Sabres aren't just great "in-between" drivers. They are actually very long! They have a neutral flight though, and you will like them. I would get an S Sabre and an E Sabre so you can try them both. They are both great!! Get an H Sabre if you plan on playing in the snow!

I have been suffering from back hand grip problems which results in yanks and early releases. I think that the USDGC with be an all sidearm tourney for me. It's nice to have a back up plan.

Chris, does this 'plan' of using the sidearm AT ALL mean a lowering of your expectations?

Keeping the palm 'up' after release has helped me a lot.
I was surprised how well a newer (Ching) Roc flew sidearm off the tee...straight with great glide and minimal fade.

well, i'm playing in northern california, on the coast... we saw ~1 inch of snow maybe 6 years ago, so that won't be an issue!

I found a great slide show of Scott Stokely doing a sidearm demo here : Stokely sidearm sequence (http://community.webshots.com/slideshow?ID=52832174&key=lLcHNu) .

Wow, was I doing thing wrongs. I think I had taken the idea of "facing forward" (which I have seen posted a lot in the sidearm threads on this board) a bit too far, and I wound up trying to move my shoulder in ways it didn't want to move. There are two sidearm sequences by Stokely here, and he defintely starts facing forward, but the main part of the throw, where the power comes from is done from the side, on through to the final rotation. It really does look a lot like a sidearm baseball throw, reminds me of Randy Johnson or Byung Hyung Kim. I can see how it can generate tons of snap

A couple good things did come out of this.
1) Injuring my shoulder, I've become much more aware of the mechanics of my throws so it will be easier to avoid injury in the future.
2) I forced myself to throw backhand only for 3 weeks while my shoulder healed, and now I have a decent backhand for approaches, and left turns. Using the x-step, it doesn't bother my back at all, though I can still only use +/- %70 power.
3) While resting my shoulder, I also stopped Turbo putting for a few weeks, and learned a pretty decent Push Putt. This has the added benefit of turning a missed putt from 20 feet out, into a "gimmie", rather than another 20+ foot putt from the other side of the pin.

Anyway, it's always nice to look at the positive aspects of a bad situation.

Its all about the whip of the elbow and keeping it low and flat. There is nothing else to descibe it but like throwing a baseball kinda sideways. First work on the arm movement and later concentrate on the snap. I have been throwing sidearm for a year and a half. I still cannot put the snap on it yet because it is so unpredictable. The only thing that is predictable is if I put heat on it , it will turn over every time. How can I put the snap on it and keep it in the air? Anyone got any answers? Please do not answer unless you can throw over 400 ft side arm.

how far can you throw sidearm without putting the snap on it? you must be getting some snap!? i haven't had that problem myself, but it's probably because I can't put too much heat on it with my weak throwing arm.

I can get it 350 to 375 consistanly. I do get soem snap but none of it is wrist. When I snap my wrist I get an insane amount of speed but it just turns over. I believe if I could learn how to tame the angle / pitch of the disc I could get about 450 -500. Its just tuning the release and your muscle memory. I just have no muscle memory when I am releasing everything I have during the snap. Its like seeinfg some pie and not being able to eat any.

Its all about the whip of the elbow and keeping it low and flat. There is nothing else to descibe it but like throwing a baseball kinda sideways.



grunion is right here. My son started out throwing sidearm. It was natural repsonse. He was nine at the time and had been pitching since the age of six. He started out throwing almost (baseball term) three quarter arm. It really did look like you had taken the ball out of his hand and replaced it with a disc. It was a massive turn to the left. He was using the most overstabe drivers Discraft put out to create an S shot. Then one day...he went flat...I mean dead flat. He was throwing a juniors tournament. He went out throwing big S shots and came back throwing line drives. Somewhere out there he flattened everything and started throwing very neutral discs.

I asked him about the approach shots. He still prefers to throw a slightly overstable disc with a little left to create a small S shot.

A sidearm like he throws would kill my arm.

It is actually more natural to throw that way for me. I can get alot further throwing sidearm with alot less effort. BH hurts my elbow when I put the heat on it a few holes in a row. Nothing serious but I know its doing alot more damage than doing the ole confy flickedy flick. I can do a helix, hizer, straight line, and even this insane helix way high. I have mastered turning them over and holding the line to. Now if I could master a consistant whip of the wrist without turning it over to a roller, that would be the shizzle!

I learned on a lefty course, and thus throw predominantly sidearm. The easiest way to get decent distance with some accuracy is throw an overstable disc (Firebird, Monster). Grip it loosely, so you can almost twirl the disc around your middle finger and try to concentrate throwing on a hyzer angle. This will give you a clean release more often than if you grip it tightly, and since you are releasing it hyzer you can wail on it and it will still be fairly flat. One thing to note is when you are releasing it hyzer (I call it "dipped down") it is really easy to throw straight up, so in the beginning aim a little lower and 45 degrees right of where you want to throw. this way when you pull through you will still have a flat straight shot.

To get the most distance (400 to 450), I throw big turnovers with light firebirds (162-165) and medium to light valkyries (167 - 172). I dip down the disc to almost a inverted vertical release and throw well right of where I want it to end up. It goes fairly high and turns over, hitting a glide that should take it to over 400. This shot is really useful if you need a high shot over trees, or basically any time someone else would throw an epic. The longest sidearm throw I have thrown like this one flat land was just over 450 with a 162 CE Firebird. The shot feels like I am throwing it way right, but if you pop it just a little earlier than it feels like you should, you get a huge shot.

Yeah, I have the same problem when I go all out backhand; my elbow gets a little tweaked. I'm sure it's an issue of form, but it still hurts.

Man, seeing as I can only throw 225-250 I have a hard time imagining being able to throw 350-375 and wanting more! So are you getting this far with no wrist motion at all?

I hear about this elbow malady quite often, yet have never experienced it. What I DO get sometimes is a sore spot on my lower back, on the 'offhand' side, about the top of the hipbone. I think that's just from trying to throw too hard, and/or awkwardly....graceful I'm not.

It's never been bad enough to keep me away from the course for more than a single day, fortunately.

I am getting a flick. The wrist is only going from a cocked back position to normal position. If I put a serious flick, lets say cocked back to all the way cocked forward, It is just way to fast for the plastic to stay straight.. I know it is just a matter of time before I see what I am doing wrong. I just dont have the opportunity to try new drives any more. Always keeping score and have the duckets on the line. I never want to try anything other than the norm during my games.,

i thnk the elbow thing is from an improper follow through.

i think the elbow thing is from an improper follow through.

If that's the case, it's pure dumb luck I'm pain free...the best golfer here, another lefty [therefore, lots of sidearms] always sports a neopreme [wetsuit-like material] elbow sleeve, and he's textbook everything.

well, it probably depends on the person, and their technique. i went out to the field today, and i definitely have some lingering pain, but i'm starting to think it is actually related to having too much tension in muscles in my neck and upper back. gotta get that fixed!

on a brighter note, i had my best day yet, though, with sidearm, and backhand.... farthest throws, smoothest deliveries, less effort, best accuracy. all coming from advice on this board, and discgolfreview.com. woohoo!

The only time my elbow hurts is when I over power the back hand shots. I would have to say it is more of a hyper extension than anything. my side arm is gravy and just trying to figure out how to get those big rips without turning the disc over. Still searching for a clue.

Over the trees and through the woods.

Seems to be a conundrum, as more spin should help counteract the increased velocity. Are you getting a clean release with little to no flutter?

very clean release. I beleieve it is the follow through that is extending the elbow to far. Anyway I need opinions on my chicken wing. How can I get a disc not to turn over when I put all the snap on it?

when i flick a disc i like to throw something stable. for a tail wind i throw a cd eagle(172)....for no wind or a head wind i throw either a champion firebird(175) or a pro line monster(174). the best way i found to figure out a flick is to go to a pond and start skipping rocks. i can take any rock at skip it a few times...but the flat ones that look like discs i can skip well into the teens. once you can figure out how to do that...just apply that to your flick game. i keep my middle finger on the rim and place my index finger just inside the small ring under the disc(surrounds the type and weight of a disc) some people just use one finger on the rim. i do it that way because it helps for accuracy and balance. i use that style if im flicking anything from 100 feet to a max s curve about 400. that is the most effective way to learn for anyone in my opinion...but no one has ever heard of me so ............

I've heard of you. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Seems to be a conundrum, as more spin should help counteract the increased velocity. Are you getting a clean release with little to no flutter?



That's what I was thinking too. Perhaps when adding more spin he is also getting more power action. Try slowing down the power and increasing the spin to get a better spin:power ratio. The distance may increase over time. Of course this is just a theory.

the best way i found to figure out a flick is to go to a pond and start skipping rocks. i can take any rock at skip it a few times...but the flat ones that look like discs i can skip well into the teens. once you can figure out how to do that...just apply that to your flick game.



hey, not to split hairs or anything--i totally agree with your skipping stone analogy, and a long evening of skipping stones in Glacier Park this summer is what got the idea of sidearming a disc into my head. however, when skipping stones, don't they actually spin the opposite way than a disc thrown sidearm?

how far can you get without the s-curve? say just a straight shot, or a big hyzer?

Seems to be a conundrum, as more spin should help counteract the increased velocity. Are you getting a clean release with little to no flutter?



That's what I was thinking too. Perhaps when adding more spin he is also getting more power action. Try slowing down the power and increasing the spin to get a better spin:power ratio. The distance may increase over time. Of course this is just a theory.



Best advice yet. It happens when I follow through with the wrist. If I put all the snap on it...it will just turn over. So your saying more spin and it should resolve this problem. Maybe I should try a hyzer instead of the helix with a Monster or Orc. Then it might just turn over a little and go straight before it fades. Any other ideas? I will try to put more spin on it at the mini tonight and see what happens.

yea the rocks spin a different way but thats not the point. its the general motion. the planting of the left foot and the dragging of the right toe and the snap of the wrist. the spin doesnt matter. its all form..............as far as distance goes....a straight flick an easy 250 up to 300. past that range its hard to keep it straight. i would either pick up a more stable driver or just put hyzer on that eagle. but ive figured out the power grip for my back hand so i dont flick for distance anymore. to hard to control a 350 foot flick. why do that when i can grab and orc and throw it straight to my target????

oh, interesting.. i never payed close attention to the snap of the wrist when skipping a stone. for sidearm i am still topping out at 200 ft, though i am getting there with a lot less effort than it used to take me. i know i am missing something in my form to give it that extra snap, probably the wrist motion, and I pretty much have to go anhyzer to get any distance. it'll come soon of these days...

here's a question: how do you tell if a disc turns over, rather than being thrown at a bad angle? i feel like when i attempt the really snap the disc in a sidearm throw that i am releasing normal, but i may just be driving it into the ground, and the ground is definitely where it goes (about 50-75 feet out, then it rolls in a tight circle).

You will see the disc released straight and hold it for a sec. Then you will see it all of a sudden just start turning over. If you are only throwing 200 feet, chances are you do not have enough snap and you are not keeping it level to the ground. After you get some serious heat on it, you will see what is going on and be able to pick it out like clock work.

if i could just get some more snap.... :(

If you want to add forehand distance just start throwing a
Z- Flick. The best forehand disc period.

to tell if your throwing at a bag angle or just turning it over can be corrected by flicking with hyzer. another factor is your foot work. if im going for distance i take a few steps run up but for anything less than 300 i will just stand still and step forward with the left foot and then release. if your driving it into the ground then take the front edge of your disc at a higher angle. yea you make throw them sky high...but just tone the angle down until you figure it out. just go in a field and go at it. but flicking with a stable disc is most important. the most understable disc i flick is a ce eagle. then up to the monster and firebird. now if you are turning those discs over then its your angle. id stay away from any t-birds, orcs, leopards, valks....you can go to those once you figure it out...but the best way to learn a flick is the opposite of a back hand. start with stable instead of understable. keep me informed on the progress!!!

what weight do you use (Z-Flick)?

I throw side arm mainly, and I have run into turning over my z xs quite a bit. To cure this I slow down my arm speed this way I dont loose energy from the fluttering of the disc as it goes from my hand. Grip wise I put one finger under the rim and hold onto it with my thumb, probley not the best way but it feels best for me. Throwing side are is tricky because you can get lots of forward speed but it is hard to get good spin on the disc, about the only disc in my bad i havent turned over is my monster, and I by all means dont have a big arm. A good 80% power shot that is low and level with good spin seems to be my best bet.

Sorry if that seems long and nonsenceacal its late, and there is no spell check.

no that makes good sense. i prefer sidearm, but i have trouble finessing it; usually when i am able to get good spin my aim gets thrown off and i wind up shanking the disc right into the ground. also, i have an old scar on my middle finger and when i am getting good spin, the scar gets irritated and puffs up. maybe i need some tape or something?

With the scar thing you should try just using your pointer finger. If you have a strong thumb you can hold it level, and you have very little on your hand to rub against the disc.

Mad Cow:

You can also reverse your fingers. Put the pad of your index finger on the rim and back it up with the middle finger. Another grip that works well for some people is to put the pad of your middle finger on the rim and bend your index finger
with the tip on the rim. Either of these grips are proven effective and one or the other may protect your scar from being irritated.
Another tip from Disc Golf magazine is paper tape on your finger. It greatly lowers friction (compared to skin or other types of tape) and protects sore spots.
:D

A basic forehand drive to me is very similiar to a serve in Raquetball. To be even more specific, imagine standing on the forehand side of a Raquetball court at about the service line. Your opponent hits a shot that goes by you and you are in perfect position to take it off the back wall. You turn to watch the ball bounce off the back wall about an inch from the side wall, you strike the ball toward the front wall at knee or waist height and the ball strikes the front wall an inch from the side wall at about waist high.
In order to do what I have described you need to be well balanced and confident in your shot. I think that this knowledge is transferrable to disc golf and it is the motion that I think about whenever I need to make a decent accurate drive.
A power forehand is different, that is just a basic forehand.

I am having the same issue with fluttering or turning it over with the heat applied to my shot. Every time I crank on it , the disc turns over. I can get a good 350-375 but I feel like I can do so much more. Then that is when I put the snap and heat on the disc and well it just turns over. It rarely flutters on release. I just know it is simple mechanics and I am just trying to hard and not concentration on the angle of the disc upon release. Been reading articles and think I have solved the problem. Practice practice practice.

i have been playing now for six months. i use a single finger grip on my sidearm throw. i have tried and tried to use the two finger grip for sidearm but not much success. my distance is not that great but my accuracy is fine. any suggestions would be appreciated.

Try the variations Blarg offers, about 4 posts above this one. ;)

Put the pad of your index finger on the rim and back it up with the middle finger. Another grip is to put the pad of your middle finger on the rim and bend your index finger
with the tip on the rim.



I've tried the latter grip, but I wasn't sure if it changed the overall mechaniqs of the throw. The former sounds like it would really be worth a try, and both might help my form. thanks.

One finger and throw anything and everything

My back hand is in a slump. I have been reading the forums and tried some new things but now my backhand is just lost. I am going back to my chicken wing. This is my bread and butter. Now that I am throwing it again I need to surpass 400 feet. The problem is the snap. When I try to pass 325- 350 by putting more snap on it, the disc just turns over. Anybody got any ideas? I have been posting this issue but it is not resolved.