I have tried throwing my new Epic every way possible. Backhand hyser, anhyser, flat also, forehand anhyser, vertical, hyser as well as backhand upside down, also 45 degrees up. I get the same result. I throw most drivers about 300' max. New to the game. The advertisement said the first throws would make me wonder why anybody would make such a disc. I am beginning to wonder. I just wanted some 450' drives. Help!

I have the same results with the Epic, but I believe it's the fact that I can't throw it hard enough.
A guy I play with sometimes throws tomahawks with the Epic that can go over 400 feet. For him, the disc turns over more than 360 degrees until it's flying nose down on about a 20 degree incline for a long glide. He can also flip it a bit beyond this point sometimes and after about 150 feet of glide it rolls another 100 feet!
:eek:
He has a huge arm. I don't.

For me, the disc generally turns over just enough to dive straight down and lands on its edge and does not roll. :confused:

I have heard this from several people. Some can and some can't. I did find an article that discussed tuning claiming anyone can throw this disk and get long drives. Turning the edges up makes it more overstable, down less stable. Does anyone know what a weaker thrower needs to make this fly regarding tuning as well as technique?

New to the game. I just wanted some 450' drives. Help!



NO DISC WILL MAKE YOU THROW 450'. SERIOUS DISTANCE ONLY COMES WITH SERIOUS TECHNIQUE WORK AND PRACTICE.

It's like putting a 400 shot of nitrous on a KIA.

Perhaps you did not notice the bump in my cheek where my tongue was positioned. Also, capitals and bold means you are yelling. Nice to meet you too.

I think you should just forget about the Epic because it will never give you long flight with predictablity. To learn to throw far you need the proper technique not power. Blake T articles would be a good reference to learn the X-step and a better technique for longer predictable throws. By saying you don't need power I am 15 and weigh 135lbs but I can throw 450' on a fairly regular basis and proved it at worlds to myself, but it is you accuracy not the Distance that will get you to higher levels in this game. Another thing is that I feel like most people that putting is the main factor in the game and that in tournaments it is "Drive for show putt for dough" /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I'm 60 and 235 lbs. I didn't say I didn't need power, the tuning article by the Epic engineer said you could throw the Epic without a lot of power through proper tuning. Do you know anything about that? I am also a ball golfer and regularly drive out to 300 to 320 yards with accuracy. Those distances allow you to putt strokes sooner from closer distances. That "putt for dough" platitude was originated by short knockers. Also, as you must be aware, if you give up distance for accuracy you will never learn to throw far. That has been reiterated by Harvey Penik, Andrew Agassi and other professionals. Disc golf may be unique but the laws of physics don't change. I have a coach who plays in the pro ranks but has no experience with the Epic. I just want the Epic to do something other than hit the ground on edge. I've seen a strong player throw a tomahawk throw with some success. Others say throw it upsidedown... I wasn't looking for a lecture just a clue. Come on guys , try a little harder.

People 'are' trying to help you. CLUE: The epic sucks!
The epic is a disc that takes major torque(physics). The only thing it is good for is thumbers over tall obstacles from what I've seen and tried. It's a gimmick. Don't believe everything you read on the display. I only know one guy that even has one in his bag.

Check out the distance secrets articles posted above.

If you are 60 like you said above, get the lightest discs you can find. You'll get more distance Practicing smooth deliveries with good snap(torque).

The epic is not the answer to your distance problems.

By the way, I prefer accuracy over distance. And I put way more emphasis on putting than any other part of my game. Just my $.02.

And what does Andre Agassi need distance for?

I understand the help but I have read the stuff on distance etc with Ray somebady and Tennehan (sp?)but the clue is what you said the epic sucks. I got fished in. Andre isn't interested in distance but he learned how to hit the ball hard and then learned how to control it. Certainly the smooth application of bio mechanics is the secret to all sports activities. I am working on that quite hard but the epic wouldn't fly at all. Others told me the same thing. I did see one guy have success so it intrigued me. I will mess with the tuning less stable and see what happens

I think most of the people in here are just trying to say that in our beloved game, that you can only get max distance via perfect form. You can't just overpower a disc out to pro distances... that amount of D takes lots of practice and more PRACTICE on technique... yeah it sucks to have to do it... but its the only way.

Thank you for the kind reply. I guess that any suggestion that a newbie could throw 450' without doing the time was heretical. It was a tongue in cheek comment and not the point of my post. The title was about a certain disc that hit the ground unceremoniously. Saying it is crap according to most knowledgeable participants was very instructive. Distance is something that will come in time and I will work and wait. The problem was that this crappy disk would not fly no matter what I did. Now I know it's not me. I will play with it some more to see what can be done but as is it won't fly for me/ Thanks

The epic is tunable, and can become fairly predictable one tuned with enough practice on a football field. The disc is at once one of the most (high speed) understable and (low speed) overstable discs I have ever thrown. It has very little tolerance for changes in speed or torque. It will deliver dramatic distance when tuned properly for your arm and throwing motion.

Big problems:
Because it is tunable, it will be re-tuned by anything it hits on a DG course.
Because it's flight pattern is so different from any other DG disc, spending a lot of time with this disc seems to detract from the consistency of your other discs (just an observation, YMMV)

Sorry for trying to take your head off on the first post. I'm trying to be helpful but you've gotta understand that we get this question about twice a week and just get fed up with it.

Like everyone has said, the Epic is probably the worst disc to learn on. Because it's tunable, it will "tune" itself every time it hits something, even the ground! Contrary to popular belief, the key to distance is consistancy. Once you can throw 300' consistantly (or any distance for that matter), start experimenting with your form. Also, experiment with different grips to find which one works best for you. I switched my grip every day until I found the best grip for me, the 4 finger birdie.

Go toBlake's site (http://www.discgolfreview.com/). There are some great articles there that will help you create your style, and find what works best for YOU. Everyone is different, but one thing remains for every disc golfer: There is no replacement for practice.

Thanks for those last two responses. Interesting, but I took the Epic out today along with all my best and longest discs to, what else, a football field. After tuning the Epic down a few times I was amazed. It started to average 20 ft (5-35) further than my farthest disc. Very predictable in direction too. Felt really good. I shot each disk perhaps 35 times and no disk matched it even once including some less than stellar throws with the epic. I did notice that hitting the ground became more severe after my second session later in the day. Tuning was changing. No problem. Monday at the shop, I will do a heat set on the disc to retard its motion. It appears to be a low density polyethelene since it does float. Another plus. I will approach the curing temperature slowly so as not to make it brittle. The disk appears to be fast but because of the wide rim it flys unlike other fast disks that drop quickly as they lose speed. I am new to the sport but I do have 10 different disc models. Multiples of several. So I do have a decent cross section. It also lands pretty straight. If I can heat set it, I have a new favorite. This is what I do for work. I take what at first sounds like a good idea, turns out terrible and figure out why and fix it to gain an advantage. Works most of the time. Sometimes it's just a bad idea.

If you heat-set the disc it will be an illegal disc for tournament play. It's great for pleasure and practice, though.

Are you refering to rule 805 B.(13)? I would not exceed the maximum rigidity rating. Otherwise, the rules refer to not altering the weight or flight characteristics and speaks of sanding and adding material of measurable thickness ie changing the configuration and shape of the plastic. It does not appear to regulate tuning and "natural aging of the plastic". Or has there been a decision made in the past which become a rule interpretation as in the USGA.

If you heat up that plastic, it's going to warp. It will also change the flight charachteristics and the configuration of the plastic.

If you freeze the tuning, you're changing the flight charachteristics. You're also changing the configuration of the plastic and you will probably warp the disc.

This is why most people don't throw the Epic. Because it's so easily "tunable", it tends to tune itself mid-round, and it will never stop. Because it's so hard to keep tuning it exactly the same way, most people will throw a more conventional disc. I suggest you put the Epic away and do the same. You're game will thank you down the line. Even if you have to sacrifice distance now, you will have more distance in the end.

No he's refering to rule 802.01 c

<font color="red">C. Players may not make post-production modification of discs which alter their original flight characteristics.</font> This rule does not forbid inevitable wear and tear from usage during play or the moderate sanding of discs to smooth molding imperfections or scrape marks. Discs excessively sanded or painted with a material of detectable thickness are illegal. See sections 802.01 D, E and F.

D. Discs must be specifically approved by the director if questioned by another player or an official, but in no case shall the disc be approved if it violates any of the above specifications. Any specifically non-approved disc (per the director) shall be considered illegal, and the player shall be penalized in accordance with 802.01 E.

E. A player who carries an illegal disc during play shall receive two penalty throws, without a warning, if observed by two or more players of the group or an official. A player who repeatedly throws an illegal disc during the round may be subject to disqualification in accordance with 804.05 A (3).

F. All discs used in play, except mini marker discs, must be uniquely marked in ink or pigment-based marking which has no detectable thickness. A player shall receive a warning for the first instance of throwing an unmarked disc if observed by two or more players of the group or an official. After the warning has been given, each subsequent throw by the player with an unmarked disc shall incur one penalty throw if observed by two or more players of the group or an official.

How can the Epic be worth a ***** if you have to cook it to make it be predictable? :confused: /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

It started to average 20 ft (5-35) further than my farthest disc.



What other discs were you using? Also, can you describe the throw you used (i.e. do you release flat, relase hyzer, release anhyzer) and the flight pattern of your fartherst throws (i.e. big "S", flatten from a hyzer, just went straight)?

Perhaps it will be possible for someone to recommend a disc that's similar to your tuned Epic that won't untune when you hit something and you won't have to bake it to make it worth keeping. It may even be a less expensive disc.

i used an epic for one game it was useless. i threw it into the field as i was leaving and left it for someone else to have a bad da with haha.

I wouldn't be shocked to find out that DiscCoastie works for Aerobie. If ever I saw a sales pitch this is it.

"Oh I can't throw this disc, can you help me?"

"Don't use the disc, it will wipe out the rest of your game (add in other good advice here)."

"Hey, if I tune it just right man can I throw it good. I'm continuting to experiment."

Kid, I've travelled all around the galaxy and I've never seen any legal means of beating hard practice and good technique in any sport. Yes, distance will help you, but there are lots of big guns out there who stink it up, but there are no accuracy players out there that do. If your legit, dump the disc and go hit the fields. Otherwise, your wasting your time. If your selling, no one's buying, everyone in the community tried this disc, and if your throwing with good technique, it is way to unpredictable.

Listen to the kid. Big Small, Old Young, I've seen em all throw over 400 and they all did it by having good technique and not by using a gimic disc.

BTW kid - kudos on having a very mature attitude on what's important in any sport. I didn't clue in until I was over 40. Doh!

Hey i have a 500 plus foot drive up for trade if somone wants to trade me a putt that goes in 70% of the time from 50 feet and 90 percent of the time from 30 ft and in.

Are there any takers???

i used an epic for one game it was useless. i threw it into the field as i was leaving and left it for someone else to have a bad da with haha.



The Epic and the Arrow were my first discs. I don't throw the Arrow anymore, and I flipped the Epic one day into the pond on hole 7 at Cedar Hills in Raleigh, NC.

That's the great thing about both the Epic and the Arrow. They float. The bad thing about them is that you'll need them to float, the way they fly. (The Epic flies wild, and the Arrow doesn't fly far enough.)

I wish I still had the Epic, for novelty reasons only, but I didn't fish it out of the pond. And there wasn't enough wind to justify waiting around for it to float to the edge.

When I came back to hole 7 at the end of my practice round, it was gone. My name and number was on it, but maybe someone who got it thought they were doing me a favor keeping the Epic from me. (Ri-i-i-i-ight.)

In any case, my accuracy has improved since I stopped using that disc.

Hey i have a 500 plus foot drive up for trade if somone wants to trade me a putt that goes in 70% of the time from 50 feet and 90 percent of the time from 30 ft and in.

Are there any takers???



how about a 300' drive and I'll throw in 60% from 20' and in?

For a limited time only, I'll thorw in a few choice profanities I bellow when I shank the easies.

Id have to say that i already have that myself so not a good trade for me. I would have to become a better putter to give up some of my distance.

Wait a minute i think ill just go practice on my chainstar for an hour a day and keep my FREAKIN 500 plus drive :D

Just a note:
Any long range disc is tunable to a noticeable degree. There is a very good article about tuning discs by Alan Adler in Disc Golf magazine #66.
If you bend the rim downwards at 45 degree intervals, it will become less stable. Upwards to make it more overstable.
{Lower edge = less stable. Higher edge = more overstable.}
This is one of the main reasons that beat up discs become less stable over time. Hitting things generally will bend the rim downwards over time.
The Epic may be more tunable because of the huge width of the rim at it's widest and the type of plastic it is made from.

That right there is some good advice. Tuning the disc before you throw it has noticable difference for sure. If i have a shot i want to throw that needs to be more stable then my Orange Tsunami but not as stable as my Blue one then i just tune it real fast before i throw it and it works better then going up to the disc that would be too stable. Tuning is Great and your right you can tune ANY DISC :D

Sure, any disc is tunable, but most discs don't change tuning as drastically as the Epic from throw to throw. I am not sure I can get nearly the variations in flight patterns from a typical disc by tuning that I can get from my Epic. Fun disc to have to screw around with, terrible disc to play a round with.

Fun disc to have to screw around with, terrible disc to play a round with.



I think that was the blurb on the packaging! (Or if not, it should be.)

All these replies and no one answered the question on how to tune a disc! The PDGA mag had an article on this a few issues ago and it applies to any type of disc. Basically you bend the disc away from the top to make it more understable and toward the top to make it more stable. In other words, the more 'domey' the disc, the more understable it will become. This is why discs become understable after hitting a lot of trees (they become more domed).

All these replies and no one answered the question on how to tune a disc! The PDGA mag had an article on this a few issues ago and it applies to any type of disc. Basically you bend the disc away from the top to make it more understable and toward the top to make it more stable. In other words, the more 'domey' the disc, the more understable it will become. This is why discs become understable after hitting a lot of trees (they become more domed).



Just a note:
Any long range disc is tunable to a noticeable degree. There is a very good article about tuning discs by Alan Adler in Disc Golf magazine #66.
If you bend the rim downwards at 45 degree intervals, it will become less stable. Upwards to make it more overstable.
{Lower edge = less stable. Higher edge = more overstable.}
This is one of the main reasons that beat up discs become less stable over time. Hitting things generally will bend the rim downwards over time.
The Epic may be more tunable because of the huge width of the rim at it's widest and the type of plastic it is made from.

This was posted about 5 posts ago and i think someone said something about it earlier then that. :o

I wonder what the Epic would be like if it were released in a plastic such as Z. Aerobie probably would have had alot more success with their golf discs if they had sold the rights to Innova or Discraft.

It's me again. No I don't work for Aerobie. It's good to hear you guys were able to keep this up until I got back to you. I spent three sessions bending the crap out of the EPIC and it has held for most of a week. Turned out it was difficult to tune until I left it on the dashboard in the sun. Warm, it bent fairly easily and has stayed that way. Is that illegal?

I hear all the pontificating. "It will never work" is the most common thing I hear when I am working on a breakthrough. Those words are tough to chew. I try never to say anything can't be done.

Anyway, I am up to 325' in three sessions. Accuracy is improving too. I throw for distance aiming at soccer goals 2-3 times a week. Every night (7+ times a week) I throw from 120 feet in including short puts until I can hit consistantly. I have a basket in my backyard which I hit from 120 feet 2 to 3 times per session. It is amazing how critical people can be without having anything but a preconceived opinion.

<font color="blue"> </font>
A new platitude: You can't putt a 20 footer until you get within 20 feet.

In response to the question:
My drivers are either straight or overstable. I throw backhand, slight anhyzer. The better throws straighten up and fly straight until it slows down and then turns left at the end with the overstable drivers. I throw shorter distances using a lot of anhyser and get a big s curve when that is advantageous. The straight JLS and Polaris I throw basically flat to slight hyzer I guess and they curve less at the end. My grip, I can't remember the name(begins with a P), was selected because of arthritis in my hand. The index finger goes over on top with the thumb on top of it. 2nd and 3rd fingers go under the rim. The thumb gives me control and eliminates(mostly) early releases. The epic gives more support to my fingers due to the wide rim.They hurt less. BIG PLUS!!!

Sounds like you're thinking of the Bonapane grip. You seem to be using a modified version.
The actual Bonapane grip I've seen has the thumb on
top of the rim with the index finger locked over and behind
the first joint on the thumb.
Sounds weird, but once your finger is locked you can completely let your hand go limp and the disc will stay
ltightly gripped between the first and second fingers.

Whatever works best for the individual is great! :D

P.S.
Glad you got it to work. I've seen two other players use it very effectively, though they threw amazing corkscrew accurate tomahawks.

It's me again. No I don't work for Aerobie. It's good to hear you guys were able to keep this up until I got back to you. I spent three sessions bending the crap out of the EPIC and it has held for most of a week. Turned out it was difficult to tune until I left it on the dashboard in the sun. Warm, it bent fairly easily and has stayed that way. Is that illegal?

I hear all the pontificating. "It will never work" is the most common thing I hear when I am working on a breakthrough. Those words are tough to chew. I try never to say anything can't be done.




One of the biggest selling points of the Epic, it's "tuneability," is the main reason people don't like it. IMO, the most important aspect of a disc is it's predictability. You have to know what it will do every time you throw it. For the Epic to be tuneable the plastic has to have limited memory which means it will have limited predictability and limited usefulness.

You seem to have come up with a solution for that problem, which I can appreciate, but it's questionable legality limits how useful the solution will be. The other solutions to the problem you found, the lacking predictability of the disc, has been solved before by using plastics that have a lot of shape memory. That solution happens to be legal.

You may have stumbled onto something, though. If you can tune an Epic to fly like you want it to, and bake it to stay that way, you may be able to let others throw it and see if they can suggest a disc with a similar flight pattern. That way you'll be able to find a disc that flys the way you like off the shelf and that you won't have to tune and bake every time you get a new one. Plus you won't have to question the legality of the disc.

To Discoastie: if you want to improve your scores stop throwing the Epic! Any disc that you have to tune to use is garbage.

Luke Butch:

Good point, Luke. I'd have to agree that any disc you 'have' to tune to use would be a pain. However, any driver can be tuned. Some players 'tune' discs without even realizing it.
One of the best players at my local is a guy who can regularly throw 500 foot drives. When he's on the tee getting ready to drive, I've noticed he flexes the disc up until it's almost bent in half as he's lining up his throw. Were he playing ball golf, I'd call this part of his 'waggle.' He bends the disc several times, then hauls off and fires it. What he's done,
probably unconsciously, is 'tune' the disc to be more overstable for his monstrous snap.

'Baking' a disc to retain its tuning is another issue entirely.
In my experience, it is impossible. You cannot 'freeze' a particular tuning of a disc by heating it. If anything, heating a disc will eventually destroy its structural integrity, and it will actually lose its ability to hold its form.

The bottom line is there are some players that might find the Epic useful. Especially tomahawk throwers, as it's possible to throw an awesome Epic corkscrew tomahawk over 400 feet quite accurately..

Again, any driver is tunable. Most players don't do it because they're unaware of the possibility.

OK I give in to you guys. The Epic sucks. It is a scourge on the disc golf society. People who use it throw tomahawks or thumbers. So to serve my pennance I volunteer to rid the world of Epics. If you have one of these offensive discs, let me know, in a private Email and I will pay the shipping plus a fee for your trouble. It's the least I can do. Maybe I can melt them down or something.

See newbies can learn.

One of the best players at my local is a guy who can regularly throw 500 foot drives. When he's on the tee getting ready to drive, I've noticed he flexes the disc up until it's almost bent in half as he's lining up his throw.



Ever seen any top pros do this? No.

Approximate quote from the Stokely book: " if all of the top pros do something, it's probably a good idea. If none of the top pros do something its probably not worth trying".

Humm let's see..............

What if Edison said, "All the smart people use candles....."

or what if Burt Rattan said, All the conventional planes and rockets are all we ever need so........"

Where would we be??

PM me and get rid of those sucky EPICS

What have you got to lose?

One of the best players at my local is a guy who can regularly throw 500 foot drives. When he's on the tee getting ready to drive, I've noticed he flexes the disc up until it's almost bent in half as he's lining up his throw.



Ever seen any top pros do this? No.

Approximate quote from the Stokely book: " if all of the top pros do something, it's probably a good idea. If none of the top pros do something its probably not worth trying".



All the top pro's only have one thing in common: years and years of serious practice. Other than that, there are no similarities between pros. A pro could come on board tomorrow, tune his disc, and throw an accurate 600' every time. In that case, would you do it?

In reality, there is no quick way to learn how to throw well. The only thing you can do is practice, and work on your technique. If you're really serious, spend some time thinking about the mechanics of throwing. Experiment with everything, and find what works best for you, not what works better for Ken Climo.

I keep hearing about what the pros do, what best players do and what works for you. Well I have found that the EPIC flies better FOR ME. If anybody has any of these discs that YOU feel are so terrible I can use them. There are solid scientific reasons why this is a good design. If aeronautics is your specialty perhaps you would have offered something better than "Epics Suck" Not a very scientific reason. And before you all expound on how physics doesn't apply to frisbee flipping, that argument won't cut it. How hard I practice is of no concern to anyone but myself. You guys take yourselves a bit too seriously. This is my last post on this site and I won't be reading any of your answers so have fun. Thanks to those of you who were helpful. Disc on!

Not sure why I feel compelled to reply, but here goes.

It is good that you enjoy the epic. I bought one when they came out and tried it out for a while. On a field, I could get some crazy flight patterns and distance. Unfortunately for me, these tree things happen to be all over my favorite courses. One hit, and the lip would be terribly bent, sometimes, an indention of over 1/8 inch. I don't think that would be re-tuneable.

Obviously the extra 25 feet or so you are getting in the field is an improvement that you feel makes the disc worthwhile to you. For the majority of players, the downside of the disc is way more than the extra 10-15% distance improvement.

I woulld expect to see more unbalenced designes like the epic in the future, but the epic is not the answer that most people are looking for. I'd mail you my dented one, but it is probably now in the Gulf of Mexico. It didn't quite make it over the Brazos.

Not even sure thats worth .02.