just got my hands on some Roc-ish /Wasp-ish lookin discs from Dave Mac. Woke him up at 6:00 in the morning so I can go check em out. OK, played a quick 9 at Endicott Park here in St Louis. And the Element flies like a.........Gateway Element. I parked hole 1 which is a shorty straight shot that I always skip hyzer since its downhill and it floated nicely. Good low speed hyzer on that shot. Next hole is 450 or so uphill so I didn't drive it but I threw a real sweet flat upshot that was nothing other than stable, no hyzer when I threw it flat and hard. I got close with my driver on the next 2 (missed both putts) and drove on hole 5 with a driver. Decided to try it out on a mulligan and ripped a flat shot with just a bit of hyzer and it floated closer to hole 6 than 5. It seems to hold whatever line you put it on in my opinion. These were with an "S" plastic one. I wouldn't compare it to any other disc though. I would reccomend these to anyone who wants a good medium to long range control driver. I only threw 1 anhyser with it from the rough and hit a tree so no news about annies with it. The flat top makes it faster than my trusty yellow G9i's with a not dissimilar flight. Way to go David! Do I gotta give em back now?

Are they protos? I have been hearing about it for awhile and wanted to see it.

So how would you compare this disc to the ROC? I would think it would be a faster, less floaty ROC, with similar stability. I love S plastic, but the Demon is too fast for me to use it as a dedicated midrange. If the Element is close enough to the ROC, I will switch just for S plastic's sake!

The 1st run elements fly very similiar to a slightly broken in flat top san marino roc.
The hold a line similiar to a Wizard but faster and more glide. They can also be thrown lower than Wizards and still get a little more D!
Justin and I were throwing them for distance after the tourney and were getting them out about 425-450 with a 360!
The have a very slow turn and a looooong glide.

Most players who were throwing them thought they were really straight flying, especially players with a little less armspeed.
All of elements so far were ran in the "S" plastic.

They should be slight more overstable in the Evolution plastic,should run some of those on monday.

After a few days of throwing the Element heres the report:

Guys with medium power and a smooth release will think they are a great straight flying mid-range that can turn or fade on demand.
Newer players who dont have a lot of power should REALLY like this disc as their main control driver and even get a nice "S" curve out of it!
It can still be thrown very far, as the speed and glide are similiar to a ce cobra or Z storm.
Big arm throwers with bad technique(turbulance in their release) would probably think they were a little flippy unless they threw them high in the air with hyzer..
We sent some off as players packs for the upcoming gdstour in Austin MN and will also send them to Oregon for the Sassy fall fantastic.
If anyone wants to buy some of the prototypes call the shop 314 429 3472.
We should have around 60 of the 1st runs left after the 2 events players packs are shipped.( we may retool it some or make another version right away that is more overstable)
We would love to get some feedback before we do, especially from newer players, which should be are target market.

Dang you made them THAT fast? I thought the Element was going to be a slow midrange like the ROC! Oh well...I'll still try one.

Don't make it more overstable! We've already got the Demon!! We really don't need another one.

A z storm and champion cobra are barely faster than a roc/wasp.( most players would hardly be able to tell the difference in the speed).
We will try and run a few Elements in the "H" and Evoloution Plastics before we do any retooling.
We will also consider the reports from those who test fly them over the next few weeks!

I know we need a more beginner friendly disc that is not as domey as the sabre, but also want to fill the gap between the wizard and sabre for the more competitive players as well.

Way to support the Sassy Fall Fantastic!!!!

Anxious to get mine David!!

Dave, how much you want for one of the proto elements? My game would just thrive if I had a disc for shots that are just comfortably out of the range of my wizards.

A z storm and champion cobra are barely faster than a roc/wasp.( most players would hardly be able to tell the difference in the speed).
We will try and run a few Elements in the "H" and Evoloution Plastics before we do any retooling.
We will also consider the reports from those who test fly them over the next few weeks!

I know we need a more beginner friendly disc that is not as domey as the sabre, but also want to fill the gap between the wizard and sabre for the more competitive players as well.




Thanks for always listening to the players, Dave! When the Element comes out, Gateway is going to be the most complete line of high quality discs, in my opinion! Are you planning on running all the current molds in all 3 types of plastic once the Element is completed?

We will be running the Element in Evolution plastic on friday if all goes well.
We had a few non dried samples of E, just to check the wight of a batch. The Element is a bit bigger in diameter than the roc so it may be leagel to 181 or 182 which could help add some stability once we get some up that high!
I will also try to get a few run in "H" as well after a few blends of E are molded and test flown!

Hey I like my discs big! Bigger means slower, and usually less stable. Match that with Gateway technology and you've got a winner! Sounds like the disc will be very neutral flying, kind of like a slower sabre!

We will be running the Element in Evolution plastic on friday if all goes well.
We had a few non dried samples of E, just to check the wight of a batch. The Element is a bit bigger in diameter than the roc so it may be leagel to 181 or 182 which could help add some stability once we get some up that high!
I will also try to get a few run in "H" as well after a few blends of E are molded and test flown!



Makes me drool!!! Can't wait!!

Slower sabre is really close,
We may be putting a slightly bigger bead on the Element so it will be a little straighter for shots under 12 feet high.
They turn a little to quick for me personally when thrown for low line drives at 80% power.
Again we will wait for more players to test fly them and give us feedback before we do any retooling.

Slower sabre is really close,
We may be putting a slightly bigger bead on the Element so it will be a little straighter for shots under 12 feet high.
They turn a little to quick for me personally when thrown for low line drives at 80% power.
Again we will wait for more players to test fly them and give us feedback before we do any retooling.



A bigger bead sounds like it would be nice (Base on your description). If its turning for straight ahead shots, I would definatly want the bigger bead.

We are Thinking of coming out with "The Element line of mid-ranges"
Earth Wind Fire and Water, or somthing close to this.
My thinking is this 1st run is so good for higher left to right shots when thrown flat and it flies dead straight when thrown with a little hyzer and nose up, that Maybe we should'nt retool this one at all but build a new wing with more concave and bigger bead to add stability. We could also build another top that could slow it down some more with a flatter nose similiar to a KC roc.
This would give us 2 tops and 2 wings for 4 mid-ranges.
So my question is: should we just have new names for each or does the 4 elements of this planet sound cool enough for the names of our 4 mid-ranges?
We will know more once we run some in the Evolution plastic tonight!

So my question is: should we just have new names for each or does the 4 elements of this planet sound cool enough for the names of our 4 mid-ranges?



The four element names sound pretty cool to me. I like the idea of related names for discs that share similarities. It makes them easier to categorize in my mind, which makes them more memorable. If they all had unrelated names then it would be hard to relate them to one another.

That sounds cool. It would tie in well with the other names too (wizard, illusion, spirit). What would be really cool would be if you got the alchemical symbols for the elements and used em as the stamps.

What would be really cool would be if you got the alchemical symbols for the elements and used em as the stamps.



What would be even cooler is if you could do that and get the symbols to only show up in sunlight or heat. I'm sure your manufacturing department wouldn't have any trouble doing that, right? ;)

Love the idea. I agree that having themed lines of discs make it easier to keep track of what you have and what you use it for. May be good for sales, too...people will want to get the complete line.

"wind" should be the most stable headwind version. "water" should float :cool:"earth" should be the most understable version (prone to rolling on the ground?) and "fire" should... umm.... dammit, I'm out.

In all seriousness, I think different names would be best if all four versions really will perform that much differently from each other. Even if you call them the "Wind Element", "Fire Element", and so on instead of "wind", "fire", et al.

I just want one of the straight flying ones... I would love to have one in both speeds. Let me know when you get them done and ready for sale Dave.

Thats a toughie Dave. On one hand, I like the name Element for a disc, but the concept of the Element line of discs sounds cool too! I think though, to limit confusion, you should have seperate names for each.

Either way, I dig the idea of 2 tops and 2 wings. Gives a whole spectrum of possibilities!

(If you do go with the Elements idea, go with really cool names as opposed to just Earth Wind Fire Water. Like Inferno or Glacier or whatever.)

I think you should keep it simple. Make one element mold in a huge weight range and in all 3 plastics, and you should be able to get ANY desired stability!

If you have 4 molds that are jsut slightly different, it's just going to add alot of frustration for us. With misstamps and typical inconsistancy, you aren't going to be able to catergorise them unless they are significantly different. Just keep it simple. Cool Idea though!

It worked for Discraft.... i.e. Wasp and Buzz

Ok but for some reason, Discraft's manufacturing techniques are much more consistant than Gateway's. Plus, the Z wasp and Z Buzz are significantly different in flight. There is a reason they aren't making the D or X Buzz mainstream, but Discraft is a much larger company and they have alot of disc overlap. Gateway eliminates overlap, and the Element will fill the only hole in their lineup, in my opinion.

Basically, I would rather have the Element now than wait for 4 discs to come out at the same time. It also eliminates confusion as to which disc is right. It's just unnessisary right now.

I think the D-Buzz is mainstream.

And I like the idea of 4 different discs.

I too like the idea, but agree that the overlap could cause confusion. We'll just have to wait and see. I think that with a bigger bead, and full weight range in all 3 plastics, we should be set. We'll just have to wait and see what David wants to do.

It worked for Discraft.... i.e. Wasp and Buzz



Not to mention the Preditor, Wildcat and Talon or the XL, XS and the plethora of other "X" discs or the MRV and MRX. Innova does it too with the Cheetah, Leopard and Gazelle or the Valkyrie, Beast (Minataur...sp?) and Orc. I'm not sure how closely they are related moldwise, but they seem to be groups of similar discs with related names.

Anyone here play D&D?

How about:
Earth Elemental
Fire Elemental
Water Elemental
Air Elemental

We will be sending the Element off to the pdga on monday so it should be approved for next weekends play.
We ran some E and H yesterday and used one during a little money round for a few birds and a quick $5!
The E stayed really flat and the surface was quite tacky, all were grey similiar to the E Wizards from a few months back. The flight is very stable( STRAIGHT) for players with lower armspeeds and the glide is everything they need. If you get on them they turn over really nice. I would say this disc is awesome for mid range shots of 150-300 distance as they appear to have very little fall off at the end of the flight. The best performance is when throw with a slight hyzer making them stand up and fly flat.

During the day while prototyping, Justin and I threw them back and forth in the street about 30 times each sliding across the concrete quite often, besides the tire tracks on a few of them there were almost no signs of wear. A+ on durability.

The H we ran were almost the exact plastic as the older Yellow super rocs. Tacky on the surface, a little springy with a lot of memory. All "H" were yellow and few are H/E.
Didnt get many test throws but the 1st impression was they had a little more fade on deceleration.
All in all the element's flight characteristics in the 3 different plastics were similiar.

I still think most big arm players, who may lack some technique, would like to see them a little more beefy on the nose and with a bigger bead, but for the other 95% of the players they should work well for their intended usage!!!

We will be sending the Element off to the pdga on monday so it should be approved for next weekends play.
We ran some E and H yesterday and used one during a little money round for a few birds and a quick $5!
The E stayed really flat and the surface was quite tacky, all were grey similiar to the E Wizards from a few months back. The flight is very stable( STRAIGHT) for players with lower armspeeds and the glide is everything they need. If you get on them they turn over really nice. I would say this disc is awesome for mid range shots of 150-300 distance as they appear to have very little fall off at the end of the flight. The best performance is when throw with a slight hyzer making them stand up and fly flat.

During the day while prototyping, Justin and I threw them back and forth in the street about 30 times each sliding across the concrete quite often, besides the tire tracks on a few of them there were almost no signs of wear. A+ on durability.





PERFECT! Cut, print, that's a wrap! Don't change a thing, Dave! Let the "Big guns" throw Demons, this is the disc everyone's been waiting for!

I second that Graham... my bag needs a trustworthy stable midrange. Only hole I really have (besides my form).

We will be sending the Element off to the pdga on monday so it should be approved for next weekends play.
We ran some E and H yesterday and used one during a little money round for a few birds and a quick $5!
The E stayed really flat and the surface was quite tacky, all were grey similiar to the E Wizards from a few months back. The flight is very stable( STRAIGHT) for players with lower armspeeds and the glide is everything they need. If you get on them they turn over really nice. I would say this disc is awesome for mid range shots of 150-300 distance as they appear to have very little fall off at the end of the flight. The best performance is when throw with a slight hyzer making them stand up and fly flat.

During the day while prototyping, Justin and I threw them back and forth in the street about 30 times each sliding across the concrete quite often, besides the tire tracks on a few of them there were almost no signs of wear. A+ on durability.





PERFECT! Cut, print, that's a wrap! Don't change a thing, Dave! Let the "Big guns" throw Demons, this is the disc everyone's been waiting for!



I thought the "S" Element I have flew just like a Buzzz. I think retooling a duplicate mold, allowing it to feature a big bead would make it more stable and that they would compliment each other just as the Wasp/Buzzz do. Either way, its a sweet disc!

After spending about an hour or two throwing the new "S" - Element...here is my review of it.

The one that I have been throwing is a white s-plastic that weighs in at 175g. When thrown flat with about 75% power and giving it about 10-15 ft. of height, the disc held a nice slow anhyzer for me that finished off at about 320 ft. When throwing with about 75% power and releasing it with a bit of hyzer on it, it flipped flat and flew straight for quite a while and then had a very suttle left finish. The left finish was very minimal. And this time it landed about 340ft. The disc when thrown flat with about 50% power flew straight as an arrow and had a slight left fade on the end of it. Throwing it 50% with a little bit of hyzer yielded a nice result as well. Throwing at 50% I would say that it got out there to about 280-300. I am going to go out and do some more testing with it tonight and try throwing it with full power and see how it handles it.

Now, if I were to change anything, I would put a little bit bigger bead on it so that it was a little bit more high speed stable. I also tried it for a roller. It makes for a nice medium range roller...but not a long range one.

All in all, I am very pleased with this disc. I think that this disc fills a void that the gateway line up has been missing. Can't wait to see what they come up with next. I do know that this disc will definitely go in the bag once it is pdga approved. Keep up the good work Dave and crew.

Wow this disc sounds most excelent. I was hoping it would be similar to the buzz, because I finally just threw one and it was very nice! It flew like a ROC, except you didn't have to think about so many factors when you threw it!

I think after this disc, Dave is planning on making a valkyrie/teebird type disc. That would be nice to have a short-rimmed driver without the huge dome that is charachteristic of Gateway "SRDs"!

(ps that's Short Rimmed Drivers)

After a week of throwing the Element in all 3 plastics and getting feedback from others, it looks like we will just leave it alone for now.
Weve sent out about 400 that should hit the courses by this weekend or next.
It flies so sweet for new players I would hate to take that away from them. Teamed up with a sabre and wizard in a starter set will help players develop proper technique from their first throw on.

Now I am trying to figure out what would be better next, a beefier nose or bigger bead?
Eventually there will be both and our mid-range line up will be covered for sure!!!!!!!!!
Any thoughts on naming 3 other element type discs?
Does EARTH, WIND, FIRE and WATER sound cool enough.
OR do the names Odyssee and Intruder seem more like mid-range?

Does EARTH, WIND, FIRE and WATER sound cool enough.
OR do the names Odyssee and Intruder seem more like mid-range?



Personally, I prefer Earth, Wind, Fire and Water.

I think next up should be a big bead. As far as naming goes...either or. You could always save those names for the next discs.

Dave, are you already selling the Element? If so I need to give you a call and order a handful.

The Earth, Wind, Fire and Water idea is pretty cool, but which name you going to give to the current embodiment of the Element?

It would be great if the Water version floated.

It would be great if the Water version floated.



Great, so when I chuck it into a lake not only is it gone, but I would be able to see it floating out there mocking me that I couldn't get to it... that's what I don't get about floating discs... if you get them in water... yeah great they float... but it isn't like they float TO YOU... still a matter of getting to it.

Dave,

I still like the idea of the 4 elements as names, provided all 4 named discs have different flight characteristics.

Regardless, people in SE WI or NE IL can get an Element from me @ the Widdershins Open - a GDSTour Am event on 10/30 in Waukegan IL.

http://discontinuum.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=1320

It would be great if the Water version floated.



Great, so when I chuck it into a lake not only is it gone, but I would be able to see it floating out there mocking me that I couldn't get to it... that's what I don't get about floating discs... if you get them in water... yeah great they float... but it isn't like they float TO YOU... still a matter of getting to it.



It depends on the water hazard. Having a floating disc might not help you if you're in the middle of a big lake, but it can be nice if you're only 5' away from the edge in a little pond in a park with who-knows-what lurking on the bottom.

We ran some glow Elements tonight.
They are made with the SUPER glow material similiar to the DGA glofly.
It takes about 30 minutes for a full charge but then they stay glowing for several hours.
Regular charging works great too!

There should be some for sale at the 3 gdstours on october 30th (Halloween weekend).
1 in waukeegan Il 1 in massachusettes at the dam pyramids I think and the other is about 45 minutes from DC not sure where exactly.
They will cost between $15 and $20 retail! 165g-182g

We measured the disc today before we sent it to the technical standards. It came in well over 22 cm allowing it to way over 182 grams!!!!
We will wait for the official measurement from Jeff Homburg,

For those of you who do not know, Gateway glow is the finest glow plastic you will ever find. It is the most durrable of the glow plastics (excluding CFR) and is by far the brightest and longest glowing of any plastic.

There IS one bad thing about this plastic. If you play with a full bag of it, it will emit so much light that everyone will be blinded, and night play will be impossible. It would also be inhumane to owls, rodents, and the like. It may also confuse some roosters, resulting in loud calls and angry neighbors. :D:D:eek: :cool:

Just make sure that when you use Gateway glow, you wear sunglasses.

Amen to that Graham....

Guru, Dave, and others,

Gateway recently submitted the Element for PDGA testing. This disc was found to comply with all PDGA requirements, so it has been added to the list of PDGA-approved discs (attached Excel file). The PDGA logo and "PDGA Approved" are now permitted for use by the manufacturer in association with this product. Test measurements are listed below.

Element
Certification No. 04-12
Outside diameter: 22.1 cm
Height: 1.7 cm
Rim depth: 1.3 cm
Rim thickness: 1.3 cm
Inside rim diameter: 19.6 cm
Flexibility rating: 6.35 kg
Rim configuration rating: 39.5
Maximum weight allowed: 183.4 g

Discontinuously,
Jeff Homburg (#1025)
PDGA Tech Standards Chair

Great news!

That is great news. Now I can put it in my bag for our upcoming tournament...

Happy birthday Disc Chucker!

Thanks Graham...

Happy Birthday from me also chucker... that's pretty cool that you get the little birthday cake... never seen that before.

that is good news. my question however, is can i use the prototype elements that i have in tournament play, even though they aren't marked as pdga approved? i saw a thread somewhere about an ace race disc that was given in a players pack prior to being approved, then it was later approved and it was legal...is this the same kind of situation? it would sure be wonderful if it is, but i guess it wouldn't kill me to buy more gateway plastic :D

The Protos are legal as soon as PDGA says so. Stick or no sticker. Although, it wouldn't hurt to get some more! Also check out the other Gateway molds if you haven't already done so!

The Protos are legal as soon as PDGA says so. Stick or no sticker. Although, it wouldn't hurt to get some more! Also check out the other Gateway molds if you haven't already done so!


that's awesome. i will be getting some more, but i'm planning on going to the codorus tourney on the 23 and didn't want to try and break another one in.
as far as other gateway plastic, i use wizards and have recently been throwing the sabre...both very :D

Yeah, Sabres are extremely underrated.

Yeah, Sabres are extremely underrated.



Aint that the truth! I love when people say "those sabres are only good for short turnovers." I just throw my head back and laugh, and 400' later, I pick up my sabre! :D

The big brown truck payed me a visit today. I recieved 3 Elements, coutesy of Dave and Gateway Disc Sports. I recieved...

175 Green S Element
167 Yellow H Element
175 Gray E Element

These discs are way better than I ever expected. They fly slightly faster than a DX ROC, about the same as a D WASP. The wing is more sloped and Buzzz-esuqe. It sits nicely in the hand and comes off the fingers cleanly. The Element is a large diameter disc, slightly larger than a ROC, which gives it a very controlable feel.



The Element is different in every plastic.

The S Element is a great starting point. It will turn right out of the box, glide long, and fade just like a new ROC. The S Element does not drop when it turns right. In fact, it's hard to even tell it's going right because it tails so smoothly. This disc is wider than a ROC, and it's dome is very flat. It is easy to throw 300' and can be pushed even further. It flies straight with any power, from 10 to 100 percent.

The H Element is the most overstable of the Elements. If the S Element is the ROC, the H Element is the Super ROC. The dome is tall, as is customary with H discs. This disc is very smooth through the air, and fades harder than the S or E Elements. It glides a little longer than the S Element, but it's overstability stops it from gliding further than the E Element. My H Element is almost 10 grams lighter than my other Elements, and it's yellow, Gateway H's least stable color, so it's very curvy. It likes to go out to the right and then fade back, making a nice S-curve. Even at 10g lighter than my other Elements, it fades more.

The E Element is my favorite so far. This disc is slightly slower than the H Element, about the same as the S. The durrability and grip of E plastic is amazing. The E Element is straighter at high speeds, and fades less than the other Elements. This disc flies like a strange blend between the Sabre and the Wizard. It loves to go fast, but it will fly slow and straight just like a Wizard. This disc is much like the Z Buzz, except in superior E plastic.



Each one of these discs will fly 300' for me at about 70 percent. I didn't push them much harder, because there was no need. The E Element will always be a part of my bag now. This IS the disc we have all been waiting for. The Element and the Wizard are such a perfect combination that I couldn't imagine using anything else under 330'. Cut, Print, That's a wrap. Now, on to the big stuff.

Sounds great! I've been throwing my "S" Element since I got it, and I can't wait to throw a few in different plastic. Sounds like "E" is THE one to get for me!

Question:
So are you saying that the "E" resists turn the best, but fades like "S"? I love the low fade of the "S", but I wished it didn't turn so much. Either way, its such a sweet mold!!

So would you say the S Element would be the most beginner friendly?

So would you say the S Element would be the most beginner friendly?



I haven't thrown the other Elements, but Dave definatly made it sound like the "S" Element is the most begginer friendly Gateway disc.

In the near future, I could see a three disc begginer set that includes a "S" Sabre, "S" Element and a "S" Soft Wizard. Makes sense!

It is easy to throw 300' and can be pushed even further. It flies straight with any power, from 10 to 100 percent.



Each one of these discs will fly 300' for me at about 70 percent. I didn't push them much harder, because there was no need. The E Element will always be a part of my bag now. This IS the disc we have all been waiting for. The Element and the Wizard are such a perfect combination that I couldn't imagine using anything else under 330'. Cut, Print, That's a wrap. Now, on to the big stuff.




discgraham, want to try these out, and your review is greatly appreciated, can you give me some info on your ability so i can make a better comparison....ie. how far do you usually throw a midrange, driver in normal conditions, are you right handed/left handed, things like that.... i throw a roc for midrange and want to replace it possibly, im accurate with it 350' in normal conditions on or off the teepad (rhbh).....

In the near future, I could see a three disc begginer set that includes a "S" Sabre, "S" Element and a "S" Soft Wizard. Makes sense!



I would buy that set in a second.

Shopping for new discs.... man, it's like being a kid in a candy store. Plus, my local course is so short (9 holes, avg ~200 ft) that I like to play it several times through with different discs, and different approaches (sidearm, lefty, putter only, discraft only, [gateway only], etc...).

In the near future, I could see a three disc begginer set that includes a "S" Sabre, "S" Element and a "S" Soft Wizard. Makes sense!



I would buy that set in a second.

Shopping for new discs.... man, it's like being a kid in a candy store. Plus, my local course is so short (9 holes, avg ~200 ft) that I like to play it several times through with different discs, and different approaches (sidearm, lefty, putter only, discraft only, [gateway only], etc...).



Except I despise the soft wizard.. Now the firm wizard on the other hand, well there is nothing that compares to it... Pure gold!

discgraham, want to try these out, and your review is greatly appreciated, can you give me some info on your ability so i can make a better comparison....ie. how far do you usually throw a midrange, driver in normal conditions, are you right handed/left handed, things like that.... i throw a roc for midrange and want to replace it possibly, im accurate with it 350' in normal conditions on or off the teepad (rhbh).....



I can only throw a ROC/Wasp 300'. If you throw ROC's 350', you might try the E or H Element. A 184 S Element might be the ticket for you. I would suggest getting one of each because they are all great discs.

Sounds great! I've been throwing my "S" Element since I got it, and I can't wait to throw a few in different plastic. Sounds like "E" is THE one to get for me!

Question:
So are you saying that the "E" resists turn the best, but fades like "S"? I love the low fade of the "S", but I wished it didn't turn so much. Either way, its such a sweet mold!!



The E Element does not have as much fade as the S Wizard. The H Wizard has much more fade than either, but they were only run in yellow, which is a very understable color. If you get a 180+ H Element, it might be what you're looking for.

I can only throw a ROC/Wasp 300'. If you throw ROC's 350', you might try the E or H Element. A 184 S Element might be the ticket for you. I would suggest getting one of each because they are all great discs.




thanks, discgraham.

Now we just need them to ANSWER THE PHONE!!! :mad:

Now we just need them to ANSWER THE PHONE!!! :mad:



As previously mentioned David's moving the shop and Justin (The Shop Manager) is off at the USDGC. Email David directly, and I'm sure he'll work something out for you.
(David@GDSTour.com)

This thing is not a "Roc like disc". I tried my buddies out today and I would call it more like a stratus or a stingray! I think that a person could get the same action out of a beat wizard or super beat demon.

The one I tried was in the S plastic.

Smitty,
Broken in San marino roc is what I would compare an S Element to. Was the Element you threw somewhat broken in.
We dont really mind if the S element is compared to the understable discs that you mentioned, as they appeal to a much wider audience.
The E and H are no where near as understable as an S but as far as comparing it to a stingray or stratus, only if your release is full of turbulance.
The E element is similiar to a CE cobra or Z storm though, which are also comparable to a san marino roc!
We are already working on a new top that has a more blunt nose and less abrupt transition from leading edge to flight plate. This will put it closer to a KC roc in stability, speed and glide.
I personally prefer the S plastic for shots when I need control, That is why we are already making a more overstable version. Hopefully the new one will fly like the Current E element, but in the S!

No, it was pretty much brand new. I don't think that there is anything wrong with being compared to a stratus or stingray!!! Both have been around for along time, and both have their uses!!!

I would love to try and roll that mother, I think that it would make a good roller. It would go out maybe 300-350 depending on how much [*****] you put on it and turn to the right!

I don't think it is a bad disc, I just don't think it is a Roc!


Smitty

I would love to try and roll that mother, I think that it would make a good roller. It would go out maybe 300-350 depending on how much [*****] you put on it and turn to the right!




My though exactly...
Once mine gets too beat, and once I get my hands on the Element X or an "CE" Element, I just might try rolling it in certain situations.

This thing is not a "Roc like disc". I tried my buddies out today and I would call it more like a stratus or a stingray! I think that a person could get the same action out of a beat wizard or super beat demon.

The one I tried was in the S plastic.



One thing that I've noticed, is that I can get a farther/straighter flight when I ease up on it a little. If I throw it with "3 Iron" strength, it flips and never returns. Now if I throw it with "7 Iron" strength, it flies straight and true. Now if you need a "3 Iron" type throw, stick with a Blaze, or wait and try the Element X.

I can't believe you guys think this disc is Understable! The best stage of the ROC is where you release it with a slight hyser release and it goes dead straight. That's what the S Element does right out of the box.

The E Element is just plain straight for me. Do I just have a super-human smooth release, or what? It flies easier, farther, and more consistantly than any other midrange I've thrown, including 2001 ROCs, Buzzzs, San Marions, Ontarios, ect.

I can't believe you guys think this disc is Understable! The best stage of the ROC is where you release it with a slight hyser release and it goes dead straight. That's what the S Element does right out of the box.

The E Element is just plain straight for me. Do I just have a super-human smooth release, or what? It flies easier, farther, and more consistantly than any other midrange I've thrown, including 2001 ROCs, Buzzzs, San Marions, Ontarios, ect.



I agree! I've spent a week learning it and just used it at a tournament on a wooded, highly technical course. I almost hit two aces and got all but one of my birdies during the whole day with the Element (the other was a Blaze!). The player's pack included an E Element, so I'll have to try that out; I've been throwing only S's.
They are just lasers. Slight hyzer and a nice release and they will fly super straight all the way into the ground. On an anhyzer, I can make it hold that all the way to the ground and the same for a hyzer although that is a little bit more difficult, so the Element X will be nice though not ENTIRELY necessary.
I have a good roller and love throwing slightly understable/lightly beat versions of neutral discs to roll, so when I caught two trees with the same Element, I took it to the field and rolled it. It was one of the sweetest rolling discs I've ever owned! I landed it on a slight angle and it rolled straiiiiiiiiight. It was a soccer field and I rolled it fence to fence (it literally hit the chainlink on the other side, beating it up slightly more) every time.
I looooove my Elements. They just do everything but extreme hyzers, so I still have a Demon in the bag, but we'll see if the X gets rid of that as well. They are different beasts entirely, but the KC Roc used to be my most overstable midrange.
With this disc, if you put too much arm for the amount of snap you give it, it will turnover although it doesn't flutter off like a Roc. You still know if you released it properly or not though.
If you don't want your 176g Element anymore because it's a Stingray to you, I've got a laundry basket full of other plastic and I'd gladly trade for it.
Shane

The tournament where I recieved my 176 S Element was a tournament designed to introduce women to the sport. I gave it to one of the tourney participants. Sorry. :p

The tournament where I recieved my 176 S Element was a tournament designed to introduce women to the sport. I gave it to one of the tourney participants. Sorry. :p



At least you didn't just call it junk and give it to a random noob...Women seem to like it...My sister gets her best shots out of the "S" Element I gave her and my broken in too much to be too useful to me "S" Sabres

For all you guys who think the Element is "Understable", try easing up on the stregnth. It doesn't take as much effort as the ROC, and you can throw it 300' on about 70 percent power. It has the same flight and speed as a ROC, yet the throw takes less effort and is easier to replicate. A no-brainer for me.

I get what you're saying, Graham, but why bother when there are Rocs? I threw the Element quite a bit, and discovered that less power would produce a striaghter flight, but with less power, the low speed overstability kicks in sooner. I think that the Element is fine, but it requires more finesse for the same shot as a Roc, right? So why bother? :D

Again, I think that when they retool this disc (Element X or something) I'll try it again. It's a step in the right direction, but not there yet.

the low speed overstability kicks in sooner



What overstability? I haven't run into any fade yet. They fade less than broken in ROCs! Maybe I just got super straight ones.

I guess this disc just clicks with my technique. I'm sorry you guys can't put it to any use.

i really like the element, but my brother can't throw it any better than a wet noodle...i think a lot of it is tequnique and preference. i like to be able to finees a disc rather than throw full power. i do seem to see a little low speed overstability, but i can aim a little more right, or add a little power or anhyzer angle to make it land right where i want. but i can definitely see that the disc is not for everybody. some guys are just roc guys :D

i really like the element, but my brother can't throw it any better than a wet noodle...i think a lot of it is tequnique and preference. i like to be able to finees a disc rather than throw full power. i do seem to see a little low speed overstability, but i can aim a little more right, or add a little power or anhyzer angle to make it land right where i want. but i can definitely see that the disc is not for everybody. some guys are just roc guys :D



Roc Shmock...if you take the time to learn a disc, you can use it just as good as any disc in its class.

Erik,
Did you see any of the E elements at the Sassy pants event?

Absolutely love the S Element.. dead straight the entire flight, no fade really to speak of.

Have an E Element, but haven't had the chance to throw it yet. I'm not a huge fan of the E plastic though, so we'll see.

Jay, can you relate the Gateway plastic prefix letters to plastic types we might be familiar with?

What is S? What is E, or whatever other letters they are using?

Jay, can you relate the Gateway plastic prefix letters to plastic types we might be familiar with?

What is S? What is E, or whatever other letters they are using?



http://www.gdstour.com/plastics/index.html



I'm no expert when it comes to plastics, but I find that "S" is kind of like a much stiffer, stronger version of DX plastic and that "H" feels similiar to the plastic Innova used for the "Iowa World's" Rocs, but doesn't warp when it hits stuff. It's kind of slick and shiney. I haven't held "E" yet, but it's analogous to other high end plastics (Champion/Z).

Here's what someone who knows what they're talking about thinks:

http://www.discgolfreview.com/resources/articles/plastics.shtml

Jay, can you relate the Gateway plastic prefix letters to plastic types we might be familiar with?

What is S? What is E, or whatever other letters they are using?



Sorry Bruce :D

The S is along the lines of DX plastic.
The H plastic tends to create more dome, feel wise I would compare it to the Super Roc plastic.
E plastic is Gateway's strongest plastic. I guess it would be comparable to Innova's Champion plastic. It is very very durable, but kind of gummy. Not as stiff as Z or old CE plastic. It's a shame too, I can't stand soft discs.

That help Bruce?

Jay, can you relate the Gateway plastic prefix letters to plastic types we might be familiar with?

What is S? What is E, or whatever other letters they are using?



Sorry Bruce :D

The S is along the lines of DX plastic.
The H plastic tends to create more dome, feel wise I would compare it to the Super Roc plastic.
E plastic is Gateway's strongest plastic. I guess it would be comparable to Innova's Champion plastic. It is very very durable, but kind of gummy. Not as stiff as Z or old CE plastic. It's a shame too, I can't stand soft discs.

That help Bruce?



I dunno man, I have several Sabres and Spirits in the Clear Evolution ("CE") and they are pretty stiff...not old Innova CE stiff, but more so than 150 class Champion stuff for sure!

I dunno man, I have several Sabres and Spirits in the Clear Evolution ("CE") and they are pretty stiff...not old Innova CE stiff, but more so than 150 class Champion stuff for sure!



I can only speak from personal experience. I have never seen anything in cE plastic, but would love to get a hold of an element in it. I have called the shop many times and never get an answer.

Anyways as I was saying though I have used a Wizard, Element, and SD in the E plastic and all of them have been rather soft and gummy.

Jay, had I known you were/are trying to get some of the clear E Elements I would have asked Dave to throw a couple into the supplimental shipment they sent for the Widdershins.

Dave - if you haven't sent that yet, could you drop a couple in?

Dave:
No I didn't. I saw some schweet tie dye E Wizards that the girls were giving out amongst the trophies. All I saw were the S Elements, which was disapointing because I wanted to try the other plastics in that mold. I think next time I see Cam, I'll hit him up to try an H or E version.

Would any of the revisions that you have in mind for this mold involve the depth of the rim or the height of the dome? Like I said, I am eager to try the evolved versions of this disc when they're out.

I had a 169g E Speed Demon that was stiffer than any old CE stuff I've ever seen. Alas it now rests at the bottom of a creek unless someone fished it out.

Also my S Sabre sure seems to be stiffer and more durable than any DX stuff I've thrown lately. I would compare it to the DX Innova used 10 years ago that aged so much more slowly than the stuff now.

Dave:
Do you have any artwork for the stamp yet? When are you running the Element X?

Does anyone have any pictures of the profile of the edge? Would love to see some ... for those of us less fortunate to have one in their hands.

I can't wait to get one!!!!

I played a round today using just my "S" Element off the tee....and man was I pleased!

You can throw it with less than 70% strength (Thus more controlable) and it holds the straight line for about 300' or so and then just kinda sits down. The whole flight is SLOW and controled. With some hyzer you can get on it more, but the best results come from about 70% and flat.

LeW,
The changes for the next version of the mid-range will be a more blunt nose and a less abrupt transition to the flight plate, compared to the Element. Right now the transition happens in about a 1/2" and the new one will be closer to an inch and also starting .100 thousandths above the parting line instead of the .030 of the element.
Does this make since to you?
The 1st run of E elements were gray, flat and fairly flexible. The latest 3 runs of E elements are more," Original cE " type plastic that is more firm ( clear, milky white and green). The discs wind up with a little dome and a faster speed when in glide mode and decelerating. Similiar to E wizards they fade more on deceleration.

My hope for the Next generation of Element type mid-range is that the S is slightly overstable and breaks in to become straight and the E is KC roc overstable and stays that way!
They should be ready to sample by next week. hopefully.

That sounds great. I hope you realize that I was just trying to give an honest review. I think the retooled version will definetely be something to try out. (Maybe I'll even take the advise of so many on this bbs and just give yall a call!) Thanks for the update.

Dave, have mine been sent out yet? I am not too patient.

YES!

Mine should be here shortly.

Oh joy! New midranges to play the new course in Fayetteville...I just have to keep them out of the lake :)

I just got another "S", a "H"/"E" and a "CE". Hope to get out tomorrow and throw them! I'll post how they flew, although I assume that Graham probably had 'em perty close.

I can't wait to try out an H/E or "CE" plastic one...hopefully my boys down is Osky will bring some up for the Open this weekend... Still loving the "S" one. Very easy to control.

I can't wait to try out an H/E or "CE" plastic one...hopefully my boys down is Osky will bring some up for the Open this weekend... Still loving the "S" one. Very easy to control.



Just off feel, I like the way the "H"/"E" domes up. The "S" is really flat, and the "H"/"E" has a dome comparable to an "S" Sabre. Plus I hear that thats the more overstable of the Elements, so I'm drooling on them. BUT, the CE seems durable as all hell, so I'll just have to judge them after I've thrown them. Either way, I'm falling in love with this disc! No more long waits while Demons break in!

The "S" Element only requires about 70% strength to get it to go on a frozen rope! Nice and slow, and sits down pretty much right on the line. ALso, you can put a little height on it w/o worrying about killer hyzer at the end. If you really wanna rip one with the "S", a little hyzer and height might be required, but forget that...just throw it softer...the results are amazing!

The "H"/"E" Element I threw was IMHO the best flight out of the 3. With this one, you can throw it more like a normal midrange, and get the same flight described for "S". Won't quite come out all the way off an Anhyzer, but the "S" is more suited for turnovers anyways.

The "CE" (Clear Evolution) Element is pretty nice as well. This one resists turn at high speed the same as the "H"/"E" does, but sits down with less fade ala "S" Element. Plus, this plastic is VERY durable, and feels pretty good.

All 3 can be thrown with height w/o worry of nasty finishes. "H"/"E" is best suited for headwinds, and the "S" can get crazy distance with a tailwind. I like the "H"/"E" best overall, but am very impressed at how great the "S" flies with so little effort. By not having to reach back as far, you don't have to turn away from you target as much and you are thus more accurate. I love the Element, and with the addition of the ElementX, there will be no midrange shot I can't handle.
Need a longer, more hyzerish shot than your Element can handle...throw a Blaze! I can see it now...The old 1,2,3 combo... The Blaze, Element, and Element X!

Like David mentioned, the ElementX in "S" will be KC Rocish to start, but break in straight, and in "CE" it will be KCish and stay that way FOREVER!

they have not even made an element x yet have they?

No we havent ran any yet but the mold is being cut right now and should be ready within a week or so.
The difference between an element and elementX( or whatever name we give it) should be similiar to that of the Sabre and Blaze if things go according to plan.

No we havent ran any yet but the mold is being cut right now and should be ready within a week or so.
The difference between an element and elementX( or whatever name we give it) should be similiar to that of the Sabre and Blaze if things go according to plan.



I like the comparison and prefer Blazes over Sabres...so MAN, I can't wait for the retool!!

me and ed burde were tossing a couple of standard plastic elements back and forth at the friz a couple weeks ago, and i must say they are a sweet disc. very very much like a san marino roc. keep up the good work dave.

KId roc.
You get the discs yet?

Chris ,
We wont actually be retooling the existing element, but building another top with a more blunt nose to add stability. The fact the element is stable to a little understable in the "S" plastic and dead stable to a little over stable in the E is great.
We need the new disc to be be slightly overstable in the "S"
And overstable in the E.
What do you guys think of the name Laser or Lazer for the new version?

Chris ,
We wont actually be retooling the existing element, but building another top with a more blunt nose to add stability. The fact the element is stable to a little understable in the "S" plastic and dead stable to a little over stable in the E is great.
We need the new disc to be be slightly overstable in the "S"
And overstable in the E.
What do you guys think of the name Laser or Lazer for the new version?



I gotcha on the mold. As far as the name goes, wasn't there an old Discraft disc named Lazer?

What do you guys think of the name Laser or Lazer for the new version?



This just made me realize just how many discs are named after American Gladiators:

Blaze
Sabre
Viper
Tank
Storm
Hawk
Laser (potentially)

What do you guys think of the name Laser or Lazer for the new version?



Sounds great. I like Laser, but I still think you should name a disc "The Solution". That's the sweetest name for a disc I've ever heard!

I vote for E2 or E-Squared or something... I dislike the laser personally

KId roc.
You get the discs yet?



No, but UPS usually doesn't make it here til 5-6pm.

Lazer isn't bad, although I think that b/c its gonna kick some [*****], it should have a pretty bad [*****] name to match.
Heres a random name that sounds kinda cool: Xero (Pronounced Zero)

What ever happened to "The Odyssey" as a name for a disc? Or is that still in the works?

What ever happened to "The Odyssey" as a name for a disc? Or is that still in the works?



I think he's saving that for the next driver.

I still want a disc called a machete or lumberjack... us hacks need discs like that. :D

Machetes not a bad name...

I would throw "The Pirate." Because every time I did, I'd holler, "Arrrr! Thar be me shot, says I."

What ever happened to "The Odyssey" as a name for a disc? Or is that still in the works?



I think he's saving that for the next driver.



I think Odyssey is a better name for a midrange and Laser is a better name for a driver...especally if it's a straight, long driver.

KId roc.
You get the discs yet?



No, but UPS usually doesn't make it here til 5-6pm.



Dave, do you have a UPS tracking number?

i got a grey E plastic element given to me today and i have to say it has a whole lot more flip to it than the proto S plastic elements, it's still a good disc to have though.

i got a grey E plastic element given to me today and i have to say it has a whole lot more flip to it than the proto S plastic elements, it's still a good disc to have though.



Is it "CE" or just "E"? My "CE" avoids flipping a little more, and sits down with about the same hyzer. This is all assuming you are only throwing with about 65%-75%.

What do you guys think of the name Laser or Lazer for the new version?



Sounds great. I like Laser, but I still think you should name a disc "The Solution". That's the sweetest name for a disc I've ever heard!

im so glad i came up with that :p

Let's see: "Odyssey," "Element" -- is the next Gateway disc going to be called the "Pilot?" Maybe a fast driver called the "S2000?" I wonder...

Kid roc,
Did they make it there today?
I'll check with justin for the tracking # if they didnt.

Don't have them yet.

just to verify, the grey E element was turning over hard with only about 75% power if that.

just to verify, the grey E element was turning over hard with only about 75% power if that.



It's not the disc that's the problem.


I hope I'm not wrong, but....

I GOT THE FIRST ELEMENT ACE!!

the hole was a wooded, uphill 250' gradual anhyser. I used my Yellow 167 H Element and threw it with about 70 percent, a tiny hyser angle, and watched it float to the right and smash into the chains. I love how gradually this disc turns. The only other disc I've thrown that is even close is the Xpress.

It's not the disc that's the problem.


theres no problem at all, the element i happen to have just turns over when thrown flat with about 75% of my power. :D

Where can i get my hands on some of these things???

I throw all Discraft but would love to give these things a try.
Who knows they might be better then my BUZZZ???
Prolly not but i would sure like to find out.

Id love to try 1 in each plastic in the max weight.

Have you sent any to any places in MI???

Let's see: "Odyssey," "Element" -- is the next Gateway disc going to be called the "Pilot?" Maybe a fast driver called the "S2000?" I wonder...



He he he I like it! Here's some descriptions...

The S2000: A disc that loves to turn. Will turn fast and come out fast. Not the fastest in a straight line, but almost unbeatable in the turns. Comes only in light weights.

The Civic: A slow disc that is predictable but does not accel at anything. The disc does not handle torque well, but it is very durrable.

The Civic SI: A slightly faster model of our Civic, the Civic SI is a little faster out of the hand. These discs are covered in decals and ugly paint schemes. Because of this, most people think they are fast discs, but are always disapointed off the tee.

The Pilot: A disc that strives to be excelent, but falls short. It is best used for shots that do not requre efficency or much torque. A rare disc because it has no desirable charachteristics.


:cool::cool:

(P.S. I'm not a Honda fan except for the S2k)

And don't forget the "Insight," a slow hybrid disc that can be used for approaches and putting.

people sure do defend the element. i am pulling for gateway also, but have to say the few throws i had with an e were proving the disc slightly unstable. sure, with technique you could go 65% power and have a stingray[dx] go straight for 300ft., but that is not the point.

Hey pimp...the element is very similar to a storm...but maybe a touch more stable(straighter). I have taken out all of my roc's and replaced them with elements... Love this disc...

Where can i get some of them to try out???

Mike Barnett at http://www.sunkingdiscs.com has some proto's in stock, in several different plastics, including GLO.
Tell him I sent ya!

people sure do defend the element. i am pulling for gateway also, but have to say the few throws i had with an e were proving the disc slightly unstable. sure, with technique you could go 65% power and have a stingray[dx] go straight for 300ft., but that is not the point.



Well just wait for the next midiron to come out. Personally, I love the fact that I don't have to look away from the target (Shorter reach back, thus less power) and still get a straight flight. Its not your grip'n'rip midrange. For that, wait for the next Gateway disc (ElementX/Lazer/Whichever).

Hey pimp...the element is very similar to a storm...but maybe a touch more stable(straighter). I have taken out all of my roc's and replaced them with elements... Love this disc...



Yeah, this is definatly THE disc to learn and enjoy! I use it for only about 250'-300' straight shots, but its capable of turnovers like none other, and with some hyzer, you can really get on it. Can't wait to throw the next midrange. Davids made the comparison:
The Element is to the Sabre what the ElementX will be to the Blaze. MAN, I CAN'T WAIT!!!

just to verify, the grey E element was turning over hard with only about 75% power if that.



It's not the disc that's the problem.


I hope I'm not wrong, but....

I GOT THE FIRST ELEMENT ACE!!

the hole was a wooded, uphill 250' gradual anhyser. I used my Yellow 167 H Element and threw it with about 70 percent, a tiny hyser angle, and watched it float to the right and smash into the chains. I love how gradually this disc turns. The only other disc I've thrown that is even close is the Xpress.



I've hit basket several times already. Did it again tonight...the ace fund for our league is at $450...to bad it hit basket! Oh well, easy 2!

Discchucker, more stable like a Z-Storm? And faster than a Roc like a Storm?

I want mine. :( UPS is ssssllllllllooooooowwwwwww! I guess I won't get to try them until Monday. I am about to leave for the OK Open.

Discchucker, more stable like a Z-Storm? And faster than a Roc like a Storm?



It's about the same speed as a ROC and floats more than a ROC. With my first few throws, I made the mistake of throwing it like a ROC. If you throw it like a ROC, it will probably turn over. If you throw it at 60-70 percent, it will go 300' straight and predictable. That's why I love it! A midrange that is as easy to throw as a driver, yet still as controlable and consistant as a ROC.

Kid Roc,
I checked the tracking and it says it was delivered.
I will double check the address.
If you get this ask George to give you a few or the Td has some.

I would say that Dave's assessment of it being comparable to a z-storm or champion cobra is about right...but maybe a touch faster than those two. It's a great disc.

Joe,
We have a run of Black E that are similiar to the tacky black demons your talking about.
They are the most beefy of the elements but still not that overstable.
We hope to have the new mold ready to sample by this week.
It will have a more blunt nose and less abrupt transition from leading edge to flight plate. Closer to a KC roc/wasp.
I want to have a mid range that I can lean on in the S without having to back off any.
I currently use the blaze for this type of shot and will continue to. It just takes a little moretechnigue, power and clean release to get the blaze to react properly on shots under 300. The new overstable version of the element will compliment the current element a little better for those with less armspeed who could use the glide.

Can't wait to try them out Dave. Decide on a name yet?

Dave, still no Elements. :(

What address did you send them to?

Dave:
Are you giving it a bead, or will the mentioned changes be enough to add the needed stability?

Danny,
I am really sorry your discs are not there yet.
I think we sent them to the last place we sent you discs.
Did you move?
I will have justin check the address and call ups tomorrow.
The tracking # says it was delivered on the 26th.

For now we are changing the top or "above the parting line"
It should be similiar to the difference between a blaze and Sabre.
The choice of names so far are few.
Laser or Lazer:
Dagger ( if it is really overstable)
I would like to use Warrior since we dont use it anymore, but it may be too soon and possibly confuse people.
Any one with an idea for a KC roc like disc name feel free to PM me.
If I use it we will send you a box of them.

Danny,
I am really sorry your discs are not there yet.
I think we sent them to the last place we sent you discs.
Did you move?
I will have justin check the address and call ups tomorrow.
The tracking # says it was delivered on the 26th.



I did move but it was back in May. I thought I had got discs from you since then but maybe not. Sorry about that. Let me know what I need to do.

Justin will just resend your discs out tomorrow.
I hope whoever has them enjoys them.

What did UPS say? I would think that it would be sent back to you.

Do you have my new address?

extensive element testing yesterday. multiple wind angles. for comparison, i took a couple seasoned rancho rocs. the elements were a 180 clear e and a 182 opaque e. the elements were flippy compared to the broken in rocs. distance was about the same as the rocs when i got them to fly straight. they had very little fade at the end, even when new, which was nice. i like the profile, and the very small bead. i do not throw premium plastic for midrangers, so the grip was a little squirrelly for me. thrown less than full power with hyzer,it would flip up and fly very straight. great disc, but not what i like in my mids. for me to take the rocs out of my bag, i would need the element to be dx/kc roc-stable in s plastic. i like the s better than innova kc/dx, so if the new element[x?] flys like a roc in s plastic, i will switch--can't wait to find out. the current element would be a great newbie or turnover mid, i would compare it's flight to a slightly seasoned dx shark-----very, very straight at +/- 65-70% power.

....Which is a great shot when needed. I too look forward to the next midrange for most midiron shots, but just in the past weeks since its been in my bag, my Elements (180g CE and 176g S) have gotten enough birdies to keep its place.

I can't wait until David runs the next disc...they sound like they will be perfect compliments!

(I can't tell you HOW MANY people love "S" plastic and will switch when the next disc comes out!!)

Okay.....so I got like 10 Elements now. Took them out the past 2 days and threw them around a bit. This disc is longer Wizard. It will do anything you want it to do. Doesn't hold up really well into a headwind but I know that isn't its purpose. It flies just like my beat up yellow Roc (Ol' Yeller :D). I can throw it flat about 60% and it will fly really straight about 200-250'. I can throw it flat and hard and it will flip and not come out of it, which is nice. If I want it to go straight 300'+, I just throw it hard with some hyzer and it stands up and stays straight.

A disc like this can be great for 200-300' straight and anhyzer holes.

I am loving that this disc came out. It takes me a really long time to beat up a Roc just how I want it. It took me 6 months to get Ol' Yeller flipping just how I want it. I don't want all that time to be wasted with one throw that ends up in the water. With the Element, I can lose it and replace it on the spot.

It is IMO, the 2nd best disc Gateway has made (Wizard is the best). I will be throwing it and maybe I can hit an ace with it this Sunday for $30,000! BOOOM!!!!!!!!!!

what plastic is yours in KidRoc?

When will this fabled new run of more overstable (perhaps beaded) elements be run, and when can I get some?

I have 4 E's, 2 Glows and 4 S's. They all fly the same for me.

When will this fabled new run of more overstable (perhaps beaded) elements be run, and when can I get some?



It will have a more blunt nose, a more noticable transition on the wing, and possibly a small bead. Dave should be running some this week, or early next weekend. Hes still working on the name, although Titan was winning the poll last I checked. Once he posts that theyre ready, you can call the office to get your very own.

I got one 174 S plastic last Friday in the mail from DiscinDeadHead in a trade. I threw it a couple of times last weekend but not really seriously because I was in a doubles mini Saturday and a singles mini on Sunday. I went out yesterday and really tried it to learn it. I threw it as a practice shot on hole 17 Cedarock short pads. 300' big annie across a valley, fairly open but a few trees to negotiate. Nothing but chains. I'm sold.

Dave's description of it flying like a well broken in San Marino Roc or Champion Cobra is right on. It's stable to slightly understable depending on armspeed but very controlable. I have thrown it about 360'-375' with full power but it required quite a bit of hyzer and having a tailwind wouldn't hurt either. I know that's probably pushing it beyond what it was really designed for as Dave and everyone else has mentioned that it should probably be thrown at 50-75% power. It's definitely earned a place in my bag as a finesse or tailwind midrange or for 300-350' anhyzers.

Great disc guys, can't wait till the ElementX, or Titan, or whatever you guys decide to call it comes out. This thing's bada$$ and a slightly more stable one shouldn't be a bad thing either.

Hmmm... Come to think of it, most of the aces I've had since Gateway started making discs have been with Gateway discs (2 with Demons, 2 with Wizards, and now an Element all since 2000). I'm still throwing my Rocs, a Champion Cobra and an Aviar as midrange discs but they just don't seem to like metal for some reason. Is this a sign?

Hmmm... Come to think of it, most of the aces I've had since Gateway started making discs have been with Gateway discs (2 with Demons, 2 with Wizards, and now an Element all since 2000). I'm still throwing my Rocs, a Champion Cobra and an Aviar as midrange discs but they just don't seem to like metal for some reason. Is this a sign?


Yes.

He he I love the Demon. I have 5 of them. One has 6 aces, one has 3, one has 2, and the others have one. They are money fo sho. I should really put some back in the bag!

The Element is an awesome disc! I haven't been able to throw mine past about 320' in calm conditions, but I did throw one 400' in a tailwind! I can't wait for the more stable one, even though I love the current one. The Element is second only to the Wizard in terms of greatness!