First of all, I know there are a lot of Rocheads out there so please try and be objective.

I lost my Z-MRV (approx 170 gm.) last night. It was a straight to left fade shot for me. Could get about 280' out of it with some s-curve, and always came back left in a mild to moderate wind (essential.)

I am thinking about picking up a Roc or Wasp instead to give one of those a try. I would like to stick with the premium plastic so the stability doesn't change over time.

What is a Super Roc?

Would I have to get a different weight with the Roc or Wasp to keep the same characteristics?

Thanks for your input.

EDIT: replaced Buzzz with Wasp.

Well I'm a huge fan of the Buzzz so that would be my suggestion. You will probably throw a Buzzz a little further than your MRV. I carry 3 of them all at 178g

When you go to pick up a Bzzz take a look at the dome. Some of them have a slightly higher dome. These will go right a little easier than the flat ones. The X Buzzz will also tend to go right just a hair more and seems to be a little slower to me.

wasp

BUZZZZ all the way...

I use 1st Run Z, 2nd Run Z (move overstable), X Buzzz, and the D Buzzz... Sweet discs if you can control the glide...(most people say the buzzz has too much glide).

I've never thrown a super roc, but it appears that they are in that pro plastic. My experience with that plastic is that they will beat up quickly and the flight characteristics will change to flippy and unusable. To get the good plastic for rocs that will not change over time, you will need one of the USDGC ones and they will be high dollar.

So, if you are not willing to go the expensive roc route and are looking for a mildly overstable midrange closer to the 2003 USDGC roc, I recommend the candy sharks. They are regular price, not real fast, and very predictable.

If you want a very overstable midrange, use a Z-wasp.

As for the buzz, my Z buzz is very nice, but the amount of glide I get with it is hard to predict and limits how often I throw it.

Thanks Martin, I was thinking Wasp, not Buzzz. No offense slomo, I need something more overstable as I have a beat hawk that currently fits my annie requirements.

I have heard a Z Wasp flies like a 2001 CE Roc. I tried the Wasp and I like my KC Pro Rocs Better. Then I tried the Buzzz. Sold! Mine is a first run 172, flat top! This disc will go any way I throw it. Glides better than the roc, and will finish! It will take some head wind, but not as much as my KC Pro. I have heard the Super Roc is not as stable, and softer plastic. They are too expensive for me if the plastic is softer, cause I hit lots of trees. Try the Buzzz (Re-tooled Wasp).

i have a first run z-buzzz and love it, the thing has a LOT of glide on it. but the only problem i have is that it can get flippy if i try and muscle it too much. my Z-MRV is my hard-and-flat midrange and i know i will almost always get the left fade at the end, and i also trust it more in the wind over my buzzz. i do carry both discs though

Yeah Champ Shark!!! seriously, it's a really good midrange fade disc. It's alot more high speed stable than it's Dx counterparts. ;)

Dead straight = X Buzz

Straight w/ little left = Z Buzz

Straight w/ hard left = Z Wasp

if you want dead straight buy a storm. good glide, but not *too* much (as some people have above complained about the z-buzzz having too much) and very, very controllable and stable.

Dead straight = X Buzz

Straight w/ little left = Z Buzz

Straight w/ hard left = Z Wasp



Maybe I just need to try a different Z Wasp, cause the one I had was flippy. It was made of that clear Z and then dyed. It was 179. Who knows... I have another, so I might as well try it.

you might try the new discraft prototype also. it is z plastic and is quite similar in flight to a non-z MRV. i replaced my MRVs with Buzzz's, but never really dialed in the Buzzz. the Buzzz is now out and the new proto is in (i hope it's approved soon!)

BUZZ. Hands down best midrange on the market...although I am biased to one brand of disc.
Got me an ace with one just last weekend...now I got a 1st run on the wall! :D
B.

Thanks for the info everyone. I went and bought an x-wasp at lunch since I need it on Monday. Limited edition Minnesota Majestic stamp.. got it for $11 since the stamp was a little messed up. I figured the extra stability would help with short forehand shots. Also picked up a dx beast to as my foray into the high speed discs. I've got some practicing to do.

if you can see the basket............. Z-Buzzzz

to get around the obstacles........... X- Wasp

I am a HUGE advocate of the X-wasp, I have 12 of them or something like that. If you find you don't like it, private message me and I'll make it worth your while ;)

Enjoy it though, beautiful disc!

Why do you want to stay with high end plastics? Any ROC thrower will vouch for the durrability of the DX ROC. It is extremely durrable...I have one that is over 6 months old with no knicks on it!!

If you absolutely have to have high end plastic, I can't recomend the Super ROC. I would suggest another Z-MRV, or a Buzzz. The Buzzz is more like the MRV in flight except slightly longer. The Z Wasps are very overstable.

Also, if you like the MRV, you may want to give the MRX a try!! This disc has the most glide of any overstable midrange!!

Id say throw a QMS.Its the most underrated mid-range on the market.I compare them to used {not beat] DX ROCs.I personally think the buzz is way overrated,but do like the Z- Wasp for long shots that need to drop left.Its the only Discraft I throw and am impressed by the lenth it gets.I dont want to hear about how awesome the Buzz is.I know people love it.I just dont dig it.

if you can see the basket............. Z-Buzzzz

to get around the obstacles........... X- Wasp




Yeah thats basically how I do it too :D

As for the buzz, my Z buzz is very nice, but the amount of glide I get with it is hard to predict and limits how often I throw it.




If you're going to start basing what you throwing on how predictable your game is James, you're in trouble. :D

Krusen, if you want to learn the feel of only one disc and carry a dozen different ones in various stages of "beat" for different things, then a Roc is fine. If you'd like to carry a few midranges to fit all your needs instead, and that will fly the same way everytime you need them, get a Z-Buzzz, a Z-Wasp and a Pro-D version of both for when it rains. You're welcome. ;)

As for the buzz, my Z buzz is very nice, but the amount of glide I get with it is hard to predict and limits how often I throw it.




If you're going to start basing what you throwing on how predictable your game is James, you're in trouble. :D

Krusen, if you want to learn the feel of only one disc and carry a dozen different ones in various stages of "beat" for different things, then a Roc is fine. If you'd like to carry a few midranges to fit all your needs instead, and that will fly the same way everytime you need them, get a Z-Buzzz, a Z-Wasp and a Pro-D version of both for when it rains. You're welcome. ;)



Wow, Mark. That was actually some great advice. :D

Why you gotta act surprised?

Cool Thread. First, I am a Roc Fanatic. Carry Three, I'm not tuff enuf to carry any more. I think the new Super Roc is more overstable and more durable than the old Super Roc. I agree that the Z Wasp is a great disc and alot like a CE Roc. I agree that the Champion Shark is a nice available disc. Now the Buzz, That is a totally awesome disc. Will go where you throw it, probably for a long long time. Feels better in my hand than most discs. But, like I said, Roc Nut. Oh Yea, my QMS comment; underated & sweet. 2 QMS aces ( I retired a straight Roc and needed a straight disc ). 12 Roc aces. My first ace was a MRX.

Get a Z Buzz- it's the best midrange out there. If you want a shorter range straight driver, get an MRV.

get a Z-Buzzz, a Z-Wasp and a Pro-D version of both for when it rains. You're welcome. ;)



mark, are you saying that the pro-d is better for wet weather? if you are, then I just might have to disagree with you for the 1st time :eek: IMO, the Z plastic gets unusually grippy after getting wet and being dried off.
B.

I think that is what he is saying.. and I would somewhat agree but I also agree with what you said.... I think the problem with that is getting it completely dry. However, I would always prefer to carry one less disc in favor of a towel.... or another copy of the Z: I do like candy.

Mmmm... Chocolate covered wasps

I throw a first run Z-Buzzz and really dig the straight flight. However, I recently travelled across the atlantic and left my Z-Buzzz at home. Now I've picked up a Champion Spider, and I am impressed with it. I don't think anyone has mentioned the disc in this thread, but it is very predictable. Pretty slow flight, a bit overstable. I don't think you can throw it as far as the Buzzz for example, but it's a disc to rely on. Very grippy plastic that feels smooth in the hand.

IMO, Champion Spiders are very nice! It's too bad Innova doesn't make their putters in Champion Spider plastic!

I like Old Super SE Rocs better... It glides longer and go straight. Also, Very long Anhyzer! 2001 CE Roc and 2004 Glow Ce Roc are good for Big Long Hyzer.

get a Z-Buzzz, a Z-Wasp and a Pro-D version of both for when it rains. You're welcome. ;)



mark, are you saying that the pro-d is better for wet weather? if you are, then I just might have to disagree with you for the 1st time :eek: IMO, the Z plastic gets unusually grippy after getting wet and being dried off.
B.



First, what I was getting at was that for me, gripping DX and Pro-D style plastic when wet is generally easier for me that the slicker premium plastics. I do agree that of these premiums, Z is the grippiest when wet, as long as you can keep a reasonably dry towel on hand.

Secondly, B, if that's the first time you've ever disagreed with me then you are obviously a man of high character, superior breeding and supreme intelligence. Kudos to you on being an outstanding human being. :D

Well, I am satisfied with my new 170g X-Wasp. Flies very straight, and hyzers out for the last 20% or so of flight if I give it enough height. Great for short right turns with a forehand where I turned the MRV over too much. I may end up buying a DX-Roc also just for kicks.

P.S. I love my new 172g DX Beast. Added 30' on my first few throws with it. When thrown flat, I get a predictable s-curve out of it for about 340'.

Krusen, welcome to the wonderful world of the Wasp!

I seriously think you oughta give a max weight Pro-D version a try as well.

Enjoy.

you are obviously a man of high character, superior breeding and supreme intelligence. Kudos to you on being an outstanding human being. :D



SUPERIOR BREEDING! that's some funny *** chit atwood.
:eek: :eek: :eek:
B.

I am a HUGE advocate of the X-wasp, I have 12 of them or something like that. If you find you don't like it, private message me and I'll make it worth your while ;)

Enjoy it though, beautiful disc!



hey ryangwillim, I tried to PM you but don't know if that service is working for me (I send and it says 0 sent messages on my home)
but, if you're interested, I got a stack of earlier run black x-wasps just sitting in the closet. I threw them for a while and then switched to the buzzz. I think a buddy of mine has the same situation. So, I don't know if your keen on the whole shipping across the country thing, but if you feel like making an inquiry, just PM me. I can still recieve PMs.
B.