...to use as an overstable distance driver. i throw a champ tee and a speed demon, and need something faster and a little more overstable than the teebird, but not as radically overstable as the sd. i was thinking firebird or predator. i would want the disc to be champ or z plastic. thanks all

Champion Orc ? :cool:

rim too wide, not overstable enough. maybe a heavy though...

i was thinking firebird or predator. i would want the disc to be champ or z plastic. thanks all



I'd have to say that you just answered your own question. That is unless you are looking for something that is fast like your Speed Demon. Then you are looking at an Orc (not really all that overstable), a Spirit (not all that different from your Speed Demon really), or an Illusion (pretty fast, overstable, but still controlable, but still a little different).
I know I'm gonna get fried by the Discraft guys on the board because I didn't list anything Discraft. I just don't know anything about Discraft because we don't get any here in Burlington. I have to drive 30-45 minutes to find a decent selection of Discraft. Online is an option but i like to see how the disc feels in my hand before I hand my money over.

firebird,monster,predator,xtra,xtreme,heavy orc.

I agree

Champion Banshee or Monster

firebird,monster,predator,xtra,xtreme,heavy orc.



couldn't have said it better myself :cool:

I'd say a banshee.

Spirits and Illusions are CRAZY fast, and pretty overstable new. Gey your hands on a candy Evolution Proline ("E") Spirit, and you won't be dissappointed! Faster than a Speed Demon, yet not quite as overstable, but still more than a TeeBird or Banshee. Definatly what you need.
You can get one through Gateway directly at and at a reasonable price too!
[email protected]

Red or Orange Flash.

Tsunami, Z Pred, Xtra, Extreme, Reaper, Talon, NEW Z Flick when you can get them. They are CRAZY fast and will be OVERSTABLE in max weights. These things are OVERSTABLE at 150 class :D

If your an INNOVA guy. FIREBIRDS nuff said

Dude, Spirits and Illusions are WAY faster than Predetors and FireChickens.

Red or Orange Flash.



Yeah, I can't see anyone agreeing with this. The flash is a piece of crap IMO. I haven't thrown a less predictable disc since the X Reaper came out.

Besides the flash is less stable than a teebird.

Get a monster, banshee, or firebird. Or maybe a zipper Viking.

Yeah... get a zipper viking... fall in love with it, lose it, get a new one- which in all likelihood would be a later run, then be confused (Why am I always turning this thing over?) ...the later runs were MUCH more understable... you'd be better off buying a talon/eagle/firebird/predator...more consistent discs, better into the wind, IMHO...

Erick

Red or Orange Flash.



Are you kidding?
I've never thrown one, but I know they are considered flippy.
For an overstable disc, I would say the following:
Gateway "E" Spirit
Discraft "Z" Predator
Innova Champion FireBird

Red or Orange Flash.



While I really like the Flash (in all colors, the non-1st run ones all throw the same for me) they are definately NOT overstable, and with a good snap they are barely just stable if not understable enough for a good S-curve.

I would have to say a preditor or maybe a banshee.

Orc, Orc, Orc .... no-one throws these? They rule in the wind..

TSUNAMI TSUNAMI TSUNAMI. Orcs arent very stable as it is if you put them in a head wind they are going to go RIGHT

I'll have to try one, don't own one, but will soon!!

I have a Zipper Viking from my players package pro worlds AZ is anyone interested? I am looking for older Ranchos Big Bird stamp 177-180 PM me.

If your looking for a disc that will go straight and fade hard at the end, get a Z Pred or a C Firebird.

If you want a disc that will turn throughout the flight, get an Xtra or a Banshee.

If you want a disc that is similar to the Teebird, but has more overstable tendancys, the C Eagle is for you!



With the exception of the Xtreme, Whippet, RAM, all overstable discs are fast.

What about the Tsunami? I got a 174 as part of a players package and it appears that it will replace my firebird. Fast, little less overstable but it gets the job done. It seems to like gradual left turn rather than a knife, but when I threw it with a hyzer angle it turned pretty hard. Give it a try I know I wouldn't have but am glad I did. Also the I like the Illusions speed, but its lack of glide hurts. Good tomahawk disc.

I have a Zipper Viking from my players package pro worlds AZ is anyone interested? I am looking for older Ranchos Big Bird stamp 177-180 PM me.



Whats Zipper mean? I had a Viking I got from a guy that was at Flagstaff last year for worlds, and was curious what this meant.

First run viking. It's called a zipper viking because it has very slight ridges in the surface of the plastic that make a zipper like noise when you run your finger lightly across it. It seems to be a first run champion thing from my experience. I may be wrong about that but I've noticed it also on first run starfires and rhynos too.

My Flash disc has those grooves. Like a cd. Also makes a noise when you run a fingernail across it.
Must be a spun-steel mold. Wonder if it helps or hurts or neither?

Most Z discs have a Zipper effect. It's pretty rare for Innova though.

My Flash disc has those grooves. Like a cd. Also makes a noise when you run a fingernail across it.
Must be a spun-steel mold. Wonder if it helps or hurts or neither?



I've noticed that about my Flashes too. I can kind of see them on other Z discs (mostly my Pred), but the lip is so wide on the flash that it really sticks out. Haven't noticed them that much on my Crushes though...

The last DGWN says that flash is less stable than a crush. I was having issues with the crush being understable(and I had a green one), so when I picked up a blue flash, it turned into my turnover driver.

When I picked up my orange flash, I never had 2 throws with the same flight path.

The flash is junk IMHO. But whatever floats your boat.

My overstable drivers in my bag are now the predator, orc, and CE Firebird.

It's all about technique!

Yeah, but I've heard a lot of Discraft throwers bash the Flash for being so squirlly. Really inconsistant I heard.

Z Talon, That should a fast disc between the T-Bird and the Speed Demon. Just another choice out of many.

Either a Z Crush, Z Talon, or X Predator

It's all about technique!



If I throw a disc with 45 degrees of hyzer(like I had to do with the flashes) and have the disc flip flat and then turnover it is more about the disc than the technique.

Flashes are flippy

i have to release mine with so much hyzer that it hurts my wrist and i dont get max d with it.

I have a Flash, and cannot come close to turning it over.
:p

I have a fairly big arm Blarg, on avg. I toss 380ft with a 174 Dx firebird, i can hit 400 with my X-talon but have no clue where it will land

Well, I certainly don't have a big arm. I can throw about 300 feet, but that's not on average. My longest throw to date was about 330 feet and that was just last week. Only playing for a year so far.
For me, it's more about power and technique than the disc.
I know some players who can pretty much turn anything over.
I can only turn lighter discs over. Any driver over 170g for me, is overstable. My Flash is 172g.

I can throw ~425 with a beat X TALON (not very accurately) but I still can't flip most "distance" drivers to the point where they are too flippy. Everyone has a different throw, and discs that are understable for some might be overstable for others. The only way to know is if you throw the disc.

I agree, it's mostly technique and power.
However, I'd bet you can flip any 150g driver, especially once it's seasoned a bit.
:cool:

about 420 is my longest drive and that is also with a X talon i do believe it is about 172g, It is not very preditable of where it is going but when i just need the D then i can actually use it. i do a firly tight S curve with the talon becuase it flips over too much so i have to release with a some hyzer

I agree, it's mostly technique and power.
However, I'd bet you can flip any 150g driver, especially once it's seasoned a bit.
:cool:



"seasoned" I like that :D

I agree, it's mostly technique and power.
However, I'd bet you can flip any 150g driver, especially once it's seasoned a bit.
:cool:



Sure I CAN flip almost ANY disc but when I am throwing for distance, I'm not focusing on flipping a disc...I'm focusing on throwing a pure distance shot. To me, distance shots are achieved by letting the disc flip up from a hyser angle and take a natural line drive s-curve. The other type of shot I see is where people try to flip the disc from flat and get a huge S out of it. Now, to me, it's much more efficent to put your effort into making the disc penetrate forward rather than forcing the disc hard right. This is why I prefer the less stable type of discs like the DX Teebird, X Talon, and Wildcat. Out of these, the Talon is best for my throw.

This is what works for me and I can't guarntee that it will work for you. My current technique and results have come from lots of practice and woodsheding.

DiscGraham:

My longest drives have that same hyzer flips flat pattern too.
I just use different discs. So far, I can only do it with 2 or three of my discs.
I can't make the heavier weights 'flip' yet. :(

Yeah you just have to find the right disc for your style of throw. This particular style we use is very sensative and very individual, so if you find a disc that works with your throw, use it!

I prefer to use beat up heavy discs because all my discs are heavier and using the same weight range eliminates allows me to get much more consistant releases. Here is a little list of discs I have had success with...

X Xpress
Cyclone (old)
DX Teebird
DX Eagle
X and Z Wildcat
X Talon

These are just some of my favorites.

Dare you to try and flip my 147 Speed Demon.
(Saving if for the Japan Open some day...)

mid 160s Monster. It's easier to throw than the heavy ones, and will stay flat (or anhyzer if you want) for a long time, but you can't flip it. It will come back hard in the end. So predictable, and fun to play with in head/crosswinds. By crosswinds, I mean a wind that blows opposite the direction the disc fades.

Try one if you can find one. They are out there... somewhere...

Dare you to try and flip my 147 Speed Demon.
(Saving if for the Japan Open some day...)



Thats why I said almost all! Speed Demons are insane. I used to use a 170 S SD for distance but I broke it in half on a overhand throw. I have a 177 H SD that was straight out of the box. Interesting....

Champion Firebird is all you need.

Dare you to try and flip my 147 Speed Demon.
(Saving if for the Japan Open some day...)



I did throw a 174 Spirit. Was more overstable than a Speed Demon. Insane. Had to throw roller angle with it. It still came out of flex.
Standard overstable , go with a Champion Firebird.
A little more stability , try a 170gram Monster.
Even more , Champion Whippet.

Yeah, but I'd say a Whippet is more in the Demon range. Not very fast compared to Spirits and FireChickens.

Champion Firebird is all you need.



Z Pred and Tsunamis are all you need :D

Lives are all you guys need! Just throw the friggin disc!!!
:cool:

thanks guys--i wqas looking for something to go straight and then fade. even into a headwind. sounds like firebird/z-pred. speed d/spirit are too much

tried a couple champ firebirds 174---they were too overstable for my needs--almost as much as my speed demon. are they going to make heavy z-flicks? that might be nice. the 150 is fairly beefy

Don't overlook the Champion Monster, very fast and overstable. I also recommend the Champion Orc for a straight to overstable high-speed disc. Look at the ratings on the Innova website www.innovadiscs.com (http://www.innovadiscs.com)

Don't overlook the Champion Monster, very fast and overstable. I also recommend the Champion Orc for a straight to overstable high-speed disc. Look at the ratings on the Innova website www.innovadiscs.com (http://www.innovadiscs.com)



Yeah don't overlook the Monster, but you'd be better off overlooking the Innova ratings!

Firebird is all you need for overstable wise. The champion plastic is super stable.

Yeah don't overlook the Monster, but you'd be better off overlooking the Innova ratings!

[/QUOTE]
Yeah, they seem to almost be able to bend reality in the favor of there newest drivers. Go to tee pad Tee pads (http://www.teepad.bigstep.com/DiscCharacteristicSpreadsheet.htm) they have some good ratings imo AND they compare many discs. Compare them to innova's chart, especially the Dragon (i think innova is rating the mold and not compensating enough for its light 150gram weight turning factor (innova says -2 and teepad says its -4 Also, they got great prices (specials) I got 2 orcs for 10.00 ea plus small shipping!

Say, if you look at the monster vs the firebird youll see what i think could be an example (innova says monster (newer mold) is faster) I have both but have not raced them yet. What do youns think? I gotta lighten my bag and like em both. Oh, in answer to your question, id recomend the Orc to any am3 and up. Oh, also, check your teebird, ifn its the TL, get a T (i love em for swinging to and fro through trees down a strait farway as it comes back to hyser faster. Plus I find that when the disc is taking its initial high speed turn and starts running away to the right (RHBH), it helps to sing that old Player tune from the 80's: Baby come back!

Well Firebird is my favorite driver. I have Old CE FL, F, and FX Molds. I also have DX Firebirds and new Champion Firebirds.

Along with that I also have Champion and Pro Line Monsters.

I throw both. The Monsters are fast but cut hard if thrown with slight hyzer.

The firebird is fast also but will go straight longer with slight hyzer.

I like to use the firebird for long hyzers around 300 to 450 feet. The firebird is an excellent headwind driver for that extra hold for distance.

I like to use the monster for short hyzers 200 to 300 feet. The monster is a great cut disc to get out of tight spots.

firebird

Discraft:
Flick
Tsunami
Predator
Xtra
Reaper

Innova:
Monster
Firechicken
Banshee

Discraft:
Flick
Tsunami
Predator
Xtra
Reaper

Innova:
Monster
Firechicken
Banshee



xtreme , whippet

Get a CE Firebird FL, the most versitile overstable disc ever!

Z Xtreme is stooopid over-stable. I throw Firechickens, have thrown Mobsters and Speed Demens :Dbut the Z-Xtreme is crazy.

They are INSANE overstable. The first runs are just INSANE INSANE INSANE OVERSTABLE and the second runs are just a little less overstable then that :eek: I think im going to put my 167 Z Extreme in the bag for BG :D

hell yeah they are!!