so i picked up disc golf last summer, but was never really serious about it until recently. now, through the past couple of weeks, i've been playing nearly every day and deeply considering the discs i should use. just about as soon as i began playing, i started throwing sidearm/forehand/flick, whatever. it is the only throw i am comfortable with, can throw a considerable distance (250 - 300+ ft.), and control for that matter. right now i'm using a champion teebird, and a jk pro valkyrie which i'm considering retiring since it has severe left to right (anhyzer?) curve just about whenever i throw it. i'm getting much better, to the point where i can consistantly throw under par every time i play. so my point is: can anyone help me with my backhand throw? it pitifully goes about a hundred feet or so, then drops to the left (no matter which disc i throw). on a lot of holes, mainly dogleg lefts, my forehand is pretty useless; however, i met a guy who told me about releasing a forehand throw above the shoulder to get right to left curve, but i can't get that down. i would like to be a well rounded player, and be able to throw both backhand and forehand. so, any tips at all on how to become a respectable backhand thrower would be greatly appreciated. also, i'm curious if anyone knows a good disc that would work well with my forehand throw. my teebird works fine, but if there is a better disc for it, then great. thanks for any advice at all.

try a cylone or a cyclone 2. Valks and Tee Birds have the same lip. Cyclones have done me well as a helpfull edition. Of course you still have to work on being able to throw anything flat out of your hand, but Some discs just fit different people better. Just a suggestion.

I'm assuming you throw right-handed for your sidearm. If the disc turns right, as your Valkyries do, then it is a hyzer angle.
You can correct this by releasing the disc with the outside edge (right edge) tilted more upwards.
Once you find the right angle of insertion, you can achieve a flight that starts right to left, and 'flexes' back to the right for some extra distance.

...and that's a helix, felix. :D

yes, i do throw right-handed.

I highly recommend that you read the articles "Getting Good in a Hurry," "Putting Made Easy," and "Practice Off the Course" by Carlton Howard on the RADL (http://www.radl.biz/Articles/articles.htm) (Raleigh Area Disc League) website. (FYI, Carlton Howard is a long-time pro (20-some years) and a PDGA Hall of Famer.) IMO, the most important piece of advice Carlton has to offer to new players is:
If you're just starting out one needs to learn how to throw smoothly and properly, with good fundamentals BEFORE trying to learn how to throw a highly overstable disc. SOME of todays best distance discs fall into this category and indeed their flight characteristics DO NOT lend themselves well to allowing a golfers throw to develop. Think of it this way, Jeff Gordon is one heck of a race car driver but he did not drive a gas-powered vehicle is his first race. It was a soap box derby car. He learned how to drive and then he learned how to DRIVE FAST. Many of today's overstable discs require a good deal of arm speed in order to be properly thrown. When a player is JUST developing their throw, the needed amount of arm speed may not yet exist. (I've been playing over 20 years, can throw over 350 feet and I barely have the arm speed to throw a Viper, for instance.) If the arm speed is not there and a player insists on trying to golf with overstable discs, horrible habits can occur and a player's development can be slowed or halted. Why make "learning to throw" more difficult than it needs to be? Don't rush it. So, If you are a just getting into the game OR if your game refuses to improve, learn how to throw! Use mid-range approach discs like a Roc, XD, Hawk or Comet for ALL of your tee shots. Learn how to make one of these discs turn right, turn left and fly straight. Learn how to throw these discs 300 feet. You'll be ready to move up to the "hard stuff" when you can consistently throw within 35 feet of the target (on the practice field) from 250 feet.

Read it, then read it again, than read it a third time. Then, if you're still not convinced, read it again and keep on reading it until you ARE convinced. You'll save yourself a LOT of time and strokes on down the road by taking the time to develop good throwing form and technique from the get-go, rather than having to unlearn bad habits and groove good ones.

Also, check out the article "Disc Golf Tips for Beginners" (http://www.discgolfreview.com/resources/tips.shtml) and the section on sidearm drives in the Disc Golf Technique Troubleshooter (http://www.discgolfreview.com/resources/technique.shtml), both by Blake Takkunen, at Discgolfreviews.com.

If you're willing to invest some money, Scott Stokely (touring pro and former world distance record holder) is working on a set of instructional videos. Two tapes are currently available (http://www.thedstore.com/disc_golf_videos.html), and a third forthcoming.

Bolt,
It's hard to give specific suggestions without knowing the specific problems involved in your throws. I definately suggest going to www.discgolfreview.com (http://www.discgolfreview.com) and check out the troubleshooting articles there. Blake T does a really good job of identifying problem areas and teaching you not only how to correct it but why you're throwing it badly in the first place (you can't fully fix a problem if you don't know fully what you're doing wrong first).

As for your question about good sidearm discs let me share with you some of Scott Stokely's advice from his book and video (great resources BTW). Sidearm throws are basically mirror-images of backhand throws. For example, if you have a dogleg right, imagine the exact same hole only flipped to its mirror image. Now imagine what disc you would throw for that now dogleg left. This is what you should throw sidearm for the real dogleg right. There really isn't one specific disc that is specifically designed for a sidearm throw--all discs are designed for sidearms as are all discs designed for backhands. My suggestions to you though are cheetahs, teebirds, and orcs. The orc will take a sharper right turn than the other turn so use it wisely. Good luck!! Hope this helps.

some problems i've noticed with my throw are:

a) lots of flutter just after the release of the disc

b) it does not travel very far. it has the flight pattern i would expect, but it just dies down about halfway down the fairway as opposed to making a run at the basket

c) sometimes the disc refuses to come back left (turn over?) at all as it usually does when i feel i've thrown a nice throw.

Sounds like you need to break down your throw,
and create a new one.

start out with a disc like a beat teebird, or a X Wildcat
if you really want to start over use a stratus, comet, Cobra, or Stingray. :D

Sounds like you need to break down your throw.
and creat a new one.

start out with a disc like a beat teebird, or a X Wildcat
if you really want to start over use a stratus, comet, Cobra, or Stingray. :D

Bolt,

With all due respect to DiscGolf368, I have to disagree with his disc recommendations. As Cassius purportedly said, "The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our discs but ourselves, that our throws suck!" (Or something like that. :D)

From your description, the discs you're using aren't the problem; the problem is your technique. Switching discs may mask those problems to a degree, but they'll still be there. Take the first half of DiscGolf's advice: break down your throw and create a new one. You'll be miles ahead in the long run.

yeah, i've read the articles everyone has suggested, and i have a nice big field next to my house, big enough to fit 3 baseball diamonds, to work on just my throw. for now, i'll just take my champion teebird, and try and master that. also, there is a course not too far from where i live, so i can go up there to practice putting. thanks for all the help so far, but any additional help is still welcome...

Perhaps it was a mistake, but you said sometimes your sidearm fails to 'come back left (turn over).'
A right-hand sidearm throw can only 'come back' right. It can start left and then come back right, but never the other way around.
i.e. counterclockwise spin = disc will finish right unless it hits the ground first.
If your disc speed overpowers the spin, the disc will turnover (left) and dive into the ground. If it happens all the time, bend over at the waist to your right (as Scott Stokely does) to change the angle of insertion.

Heh, heh, Beavis, He said bend over to change the angle of insertion, heh, heh,.

you are right, it was a mistake. i meant to say, sometimes the disc fails to come back right, as in, it starts off curving left and continues left the entire way. sorry about that...

The flutter that you are seeing is a result of "off axis torque". I believe this has a lot to do with your grip and the angle of the disc upon release. Basically, when the disc rips out, it has to be flat in relation to the direction it is moving, otherwise wind catches the flat areas and makes it wobble. When throwing backhand or forehand for that matter, the disc should be in line with your forearm. I agree with others here who said to check out discgolfreview.com, and read the articles a few times. I used to throw almost exclusively forehand and gradually changed to backhand which gave me about half the distance at first. After practicing for a couple months and reading those articles, my backhand is now my most powerful and accurate throw. As far as your forehand curving left the whole way, try keeping your palm pointing to the sky and releasing the disc with the outside edge pointing slightly down. Or just buy a more overstable (or just maybe heavier) disc.

i think my discs right now are pretty heavy; my teebird is 174g and interestingly enough, my valkyrie does not have a weight printed on it, i guess it feels kind of lighter, though.

Get some 150g discs. Candy and DX.
Things become clearer faster with lighter discs.
;)

P.S.
When a right-handed sidearm shot curves left and doesn't come back, you have turned the disc over. This is caused by one of two things. Either you are releasing it with too much
anhyzer (edge away from your hand is raised too high), or you are not giving the disc enough 'snap' (spin). Be sure to flick your fingers sharply along the plane the disc is released on. You may have to rotate your wrist outward a bit (hyper-supination) and it may feel awkward at first. Just be sure your 'flick' and follow through stay with the plane of the disc. When airspeed overcomes spin, a disc will turn over. Spin will help any throw hold its line longer.

i've looked for another champion tee-bird, something in the 150g class as you suggest, but so far have had no luck finding one (there aren't many vendors around where i live...).

as far as my throw, i've concentrated on throwing the disc smoothly, not crushing it; i've noticed a smoother and more predictable flight, to the point where it does a "s-curve" almost every time i throw it now. while it doesn't fly as far as it used to on average, some holes i have outdriven the pin by at least 50 feet whereas i would only come up short by throwing the disc as hard as i could. i've started to concentrate on just my teebird, while not using my valkyrie as much. also, my putting has gotten better.

however, i have another question: whenever i lunge forward at the end of my approach, i seem to release the disc very smoothly, whereas if i throw it with my chest basically upright, there is still flutter in the disc. any suggestions as to why?

also, this post is not to say i don't need help anymore; it is merely a progress report. i'm am still open to any advice anyone has to offer...

STOP BUYING DISCS!!

A good player can throw a hubcap a mile. Take what you've got and learn to throw. All the reading in the world is great, it took me a long ways, do it. But, it's just not enough. When you've read a lot and feel you are learning, go to Theo Pozzy's site (http://home.comcast.net/~tpozzy/prodrives.htm) and look at how Barry and Steve throw. This is a start. Even better, buy last year's Worlds video or NT video and watch them about 50 times. Watch how the pros unleash and emulate what they are doing. The best is to find a local pro and get him/her to play some rounds with you (most play for free but beer is almost always accepted). Study what they are doing and listen to their advice when they give it (they will, I've yet to meet or hear of one that wasn't generous about trying to help).

Once you've done this put what you are seeing in the context of what you've read (especially the summarized stuff from Dave Dunipace). You will be able to see how the pros accomplish the items laid out by Dave and Blake T. (If you haven't figured out who these guys are go looking for them, they have given away about a million bucks worth of great free advice).

I learned more from watching the pros throw than from any other item. This came from watching the Worlds video where I could (on my DVD player) go through each throw over and over one frame at a time looking for nuances. You can imerse yourself in the throws for an hour or two and it really helps.

bolt759:

Sounds as though when you 'lunge forward' you are probably leading with your chest and elbow. This is a good thing!
On the Scott Stokely video, he demonstrates pretty much that exact technique. He goes as far as to say you should
stick your chest out forward towards the line of desired flight and lead with your elbow as much as possible.