Due to the wooded courses I play on a regular basis I prefer to use almost exclusively premium plastic for my drivers and midranges. Candy drivers have always worked well for me, but I've had a heck of a time finding a good premium plastic midrange that flies straight with the nose down and has good glide (basically one that flies similar to a DX or KC pro Roc/ X-Wasp). The only two I've found to fit the bill at all are the Z-Buzzz (especially domey clear ones) and the candy Aurora MS/QMS. All other candy midranges I've recently thrown fly funny for me in the weights/plastic styles I've tried. Recently I tried a 178g opaque/solid orange Champion Cobra and a 178g clear blue Champion Shark. Throwing at a 300' open hole flat with the nose down the Cobra drifted a little right of my intended line (the Roc line) and then faded back too hard with little glide in the flight. The Shark got out on the line nicely, but started its fade way too early every time. I cannot believe how overstable the Shark was. Neither of these discs are what I would consider straight. What have you guys found regarding straight candy mids?

pro line gremlins. :D

Champion Roc is the best thing out there. If you are luck enough to own a 2001, nothing even comes close. They have a life span similar to Samsonite luggage and only improve with age.

hmmm, haven't seen a champ. roc, interesting

Champion Roc is the best thing out there. If you are luck enough to own a 2001, nothing even comes close. They have a life span similar to Samsonite luggage and only improve with age.



I've heard the newer Champ Rocs are really overstable, and considering how overstable the Shark is in candy, it would make sense.

Throw regular plastic.

q sentinel is the bomb :D

I could only pick 2 from the poll. I cant believe you didnt put candy rhynos on there. Oh well, maybe my idea of midrange is different from everyone elses.

I usually throw my Crystal Challengers on anything 300 and in. I only use mids for stability reasons. So i guess a Crystal challenger would be a mid for me :D

There is no candy replacement for a DX Roc. I have tried and tried and tried to find the candy equivalents of the new/seasoned/beat DX Roc trifecta, but have failed. I even took the Rocs out of the bag for a while to force myslef to throw the candy cobras and spiders and what not.

I have not found a candy disc that holds the straight and beat fade of a well worn DX Roc.

Cobra Kai do or die :D

There is no candy replacement for a DX Roc. I have tried and tried and tried to find the candy equivalents of the new/seasoned/beat DX Roc trifecta, but have failed. I even took the Rocs out of the bag for a while to force myslef to throw the candy cobras and spiders and what not.

I have not found a candy disc that holds the straight and beat fade of a well worn DX Roc.



AMEN!

Mid-range side of my bag - Champ Cobras in three weights - 179g, 170g and 159g

I will have to agree as well, having more rocs than drivers at the moment. I will agree with throwing regular plastic as well, amazing when you let the disc to the work(the few times this happens lol)

Martin is right. ProLine Gremlin is by far my favorite midrange.

If you have to get Candy, the Buzz is probably the straightest. But, just like real candy, Candy plastic rots your brain!

AND SAMSONITE DOES GET BETTER WITH AGE!!!

Plus, it takes forever to go through a Demon or ROC. I have a Demon that is 2 years old and still gets thrown every day.

As I mentioned earlier I play at several heavily wooded courses with sadistic tee placements w/ respect to trees. Hitting trees hard is an everyday occurance for my discs. I recently trashed a pro Cobra after 3 rounds. This is why I need candy.

I have a heavy, extremely domey, clear salmon Buzzz, and in the open it flies dead straight with a gliding, Roc-type fade. It has to be thrown a little faster and it flies a little faster as well, but not nearly as fast as the flatter Buzzes I've thrown. This is the closest thing to a new dx Roc in candy I've thrown.
My candy Aurora flies like a beat Roc, with a little less speed and more glide. Neither of these discs feels as effortless as the dx Roc though, that is really the only thing I'm missing. I probably won't find it in candy. I wonder what this Bulldog midrange thing that Dave D.is working on is intended to be.

roc or cobra

I play on a course that murders DX discs, so I stick with candy (or X/Pro) for midranges.

I carry a Z Buzzz and a DGA Squall.

The Squall is probably the most dead stable disc I've ever thrown. With a flat, hard rip, its flight is similar to an X2 - straight, with no turn and a few feet of fade at the very end. The Squall also goes farther than my other midranges.

X Wasp = for straight to overstable (or flex)
Z Comet = for straight to turnover (beat roc'ish)
Wizard = for everything that I don't want to go too far

I have a heavy, extremely domey, clear salmon Buzzz



It's not pink, it's salmon. :D

Of course, I would never throw a pink disc! :D

Z-Storms and Z-Comets both fit the bill. Both of them are the only discs I'd pay over $20 for and throw.

X Wasp
Z Buzzz
D Hawk

All work well

Rocs Rocs Rocs

Champion 03 roc, slightly overstable like a new DX roc
04 KC roc, for dead straight throws
beat up dx roc for the slight turn over
flat top cobra for nose up turn overs
classic roc for all kinds of shorter ups

I play on a course that murders DX discs, so I stick with candy (or X/Pro) for midranges.

I carry a Z Buzzz and a DGA Squall.

The Squall is probably the most dead stable disc I've ever thrown. With a flat, hard rip, its flight is similar to an X2 - straight, with no turn and a few feet of fade at the very end. The Squall also goes farther than my other midranges.



hey boru, can you compare the Squall and Z Buzzz? The Squall is one of my favorite discs and I was thinking about trying out a Z Buzzz, just wondering what to expect.

Also, to the original question, I recommend a DGA Squall. They are super straight and can hold any line. I play a heavily wooded course everyday and mine has taken many hits. It has minor scratches and dings but nothing bad. It is breaking in slow and evenly. It might not be quite as durable as champion or Z plastic but it is still very strong. Also it is very long for a midrange, so a shorter mid or putter you can drive with would probably make a good set to cover shorter throws.

My store just got in Squalls last week and I took one out to the field to test. I liked it for sure, but it was a little too windy to get a good feel. It has the best glide of any small diameter mid I've thrown and seemed very straight. It was not quite as long as my ZBuzzz and QMS, but I don't throw small diameter midranges as far in general. It flew well in the wind. I'll have to mess with it some more.

My bag is turning pink.... :D

Z- Buzzz and Z- Wasp

:DCE Classic ROC :D easy to throw flat hard and straight about 300'-325' hardly any fade put it on line and watch it GO :eek:

My bag is turning pink.... :D

Z- Buzzz and Z- Wasp



Don't tell anyone this, but Pink discs fly alot nicer than any other color!

QMS or Pro Line Gremlin.....QMS for strait and the Gremlin for most anything else.

Champ Shark

or

Z-Wasp


and sometimes a spider

I recently started throwing a Z-Buzz. At first I hated the disc, it was always flipping. And then I grew out of the stupid flippy phase and got control of my discs. I can now use my buzz for any shot up to 375'. I can't throw my wasp, QMS, MRV as far or as accurately. I think that as soon as your technique comes around you can use almost any of those discs. The main difference is the speed of the disc. I think the slower ones are also the least stable.

I have to agree with the pink disc comment......

I have pink XS, Pro T-Bird, Crush, Buzzz, and Viking

They are my favorites!! :cool: :D

There is no candy replacement for a DX Roc. I have tried and tried and tried to find the candy equivalents of the new/seasoned/beat DX Roc trifecta, but have failed. I even took the Rocs out of the bag for a while to force myslef to throw the candy cobras and spiders and what not.

I have not found a candy disc that holds the straight and beat fade of a well worn DX Roc.



I'm totally with Rhett on this one. I tried all the candy midranges and went back to the dx Rocs. The only candy midrange I use is the CE Classic Roc, but that is more of an approach disc (dead straight I might add) than a midrange disc for me.

The more I've played the more stable my selection has become. Currently I use three midranges for my everday needs:

9x Roc (beat): turnover and straight
10x Roc: Straight
Z-Wasp: Straight w/o turnover

The Wasp one of my favorites, because I've had it over a year and it NEVER turns over. I can throw the hell out of it, and it flies dead straight before hyzering out. It's always comforting to know a disc will do what you want it to regardless of how hard you throw it.

I usually have a steady rotation in my bag with rocs. Once the straight roc becomes too understable, it graduates to turnover shots, and the turnover disc usually gets the boot. I've never found a midrange candy that holds a turnover for any appreciable distance, so I stick to the rotation method.

"I've never found a midrange candy that holds a turnover for any appreciable distance, so I stick to the rotation method. "

try the z-breeze. especially if you like the predictability of the z-wasp. the breeze is like a perfectly "seasoned" roc, but it holds up to abuse very well. i've found that it is very predictable and holds an anyzer line very well, or thrown level with lots of snap it will go straight for 100-150' then do a nice right turn, then glide. it flies alot like an innova champion panther for me. i lost my panther and replaced it with the breeze, and am loving it.

my mids are:

z-wasp, photon-wasp, z-buzzz, x-buzzz, z-breeze.

(i generally prefer innova for drivers though, although the flash is giving me some huge s-curve distance lately)

if your looking for a good candy mid range z-buzz is great most predictable for me everything grips weird and I rather through the regular plastic.

Q-MS great predictable disc

z-buzz straight, z wasp hyzer, and QMS for annie

Buzzz' are just to understable for me.Old QMS opaque runs are the BOMB for strait shots but much like the Buzz they become way to understable after abuse.Ive been using my Pro Line Grmlin since it came out for all types of shots and 1 disc rounds.I think alot of people missed the boat on these,as mine seems to age like a DX ROC and still will hold hard hyser snap.

I'm starting to develop a taste for the older DX discs... found an older teebird in perfect shape, and it's the most dependable disc I have

Buzzz' are just to understable for me.Old QMS opaque runs are the BOMB for strait shots but much like the Buzz they become way to understable after abuse.Ive been using my Pro Line Grmlin since it came out for all types of shots and 1 disc rounds.I think alot of people missed the boat on these,as mine seems to age like a DX ROC and still will hold hard hyser snap.



Whoa...I can throw a ZBuzzz flat for 350' without it turning whatsoever. Try a heavy one, if you can get it to turn from flat you'll be throwing it well over 400'. If you still turn that it has to be something about your form.

Pretty interesting results so far:


Champion Panther
5 02%

Champion Roc
26 14%

Champion Shark
12 06%

Champion Cobra
7 03%

Champion Spider
19 10%

QMS/Candy Aurora
12 06%

Q-Sentinel
5 02%

ZBuzzz
53 29%

ZWasp
29 16%

ZMRV
6 03%

ZHawk
3 01%

max-weight.Orange if that helps.

Like I said earlier. I throw a 173 Orange Z-Buzz just about 375ft. It doesn't flip. Of course I can also throw my wizard about 325, and yeah, that doesn't flip either. I think there were threads on this before. You need to work on your technique if everything flips. I used to have the same problem until I actually learned how to control a disc. ;)

You need to work on your technique if everything flips. I used to have the same problem until I actually learned how to control a disc. ;)



Same here. I used to flip CE Eagles and now I can't even flip new DX eagles, but I can throw 400' consistantly!

I have no problem with form.I flipped the buzz.I didnt say that it was a bad disc or anything but it flipped.Maybe if i didnt have the straitest mid range I have ever thrown in my bag{QMS} than the buzz wouldve got more respect which means more throws.If it aint broke dont fix it.Ill stick to what I got and field throw the buzz somemore.I never said i flipped "everything" and I throw a putter 300 ft.Perhaps i dont know how to throw the Buzz as well as you can, 375ft is a great distance.One I would like to see.But as I said earlier it didnt impress me and I will give it somemore tries.Bad form?After one comment when you havent even seen me play?Are you a Scout?

Champion Shark all the way.

has nothing to do with bad form, it matters if you throw higher across your chest or if you throw low and rely on your snap to get your discs out there. It can take practice if you're more of a "snap" thrower to get the same type of control someone else might have who doesnt snap the disc so much on the straight, flat shots, but it's possible.

yes, i snap my discs and can flip my z-buzzz. i can also throw over 400 consistently and with accuracy (ok ok , most of the time with accuracy :cool:) the z-buzzz does still have a place in my bag though and has eliminated my need to carry a z-breeze since i can make the buzzz do what the breeze is meant for. so it's not all bad :)

QMS

I don't really like the 03 or 04 ROCs. 01 and 02 are nice but not $200 nice. I think the Buzz is the best bang for the buck if you want a CE roc flight without a CE ROC price.

yes, i snap my discs and can flip my z-buzzz. i can also throw over 400 consistently and with accuracy (ok ok , most of the time with accuracy :cool:) the z-buzzz does still have a place in my bag though



Wow if you can throw a midrange over 400 consistently and with accuracy what else would you need...

THE BEST CANDY MIDRANGE IS A DX ROC.

THE BEST CANDY MIDRANGE IS A DX ROC.



Way to miss the point....again.

Pro Line Gremlin

Pro Line Gremlin



what he said.. :cool:

Champion Spider.....
Nuff said!!!!

I get really good results with the Z Comet.

I get really good results with the Z Comet.



Z Comets are lifesavers. I just wish they were mass produced. Last time I tracked down Ron Russell I made sure to buy enough to hold me for a while. The color they come in (dark blue) is also sweet.

What about CFR Classic Rocs? I scored one recently and have noticed instant gains in accuracy on my midrange game. It's easily the straightest flying disc I've ever thrown without getting flippy :eek:, and can handle some umph off the tee-box for decent distance :D.

I haven't tried them because the cost of CFR is prohibitive for me. The Pro Classic Rocs seem nice. I took the Z comets out of my bag and am experimenting with midranges. I have a Z buzz, but plan to pick up a Champ. Shark tomorrow and also possibly a QMS. KC Rocs are more overstable than I prefer. (I played Ultimate a lot before finding disc golf so I am used to throwing understable discs). I can throw my JK Aviars pretty far, but carrying no midrange at all doesn't seem right.

I'm trying to gauge the difference in stability and distance of the QMS verses the Champ. Shark vs. the Classic Roc vs. the Z Buzz. Anyone that has thrown all or most of these, your comments would be most welcome.

qms and the classic roc are very close, roc would be a little less stable. the candy buzzzs and sharks that i have thrown have all been variable in stability for me but i would have to say the sharks were just a tad more stable than the buzzz. so in order of stability from least to most i would say Classic Roc, QMS, z-Buzzz, and the Champion Shark.

I have found, that like Rocs, there tends to be some inconsistency with the Z-Buzzz. There are flat ones and domey ones. The flat ones are stable with a slight fade at the end and the domey ones are undestable, but do a great hyzer flip. A flat Z-buzzz is about as stable as a Champion Roc.

Thanks Paul. I think the Classic Roc probably best fits my game, but I am wondering -- is it the shortest of these discs in terms of distance? Also, is it true the Shark starts fading left sooner than the other ones? (if so I probably won't like it except for specialty shots)

Robj,

I have thrown all of these discs at one time but now the QMS and the Shark I no longer throw. I would say the Classic Roc is the "shortest" I find it is a little bit longer then an XD. I will use it as an approach disc under 200ft if there is alot of wind. But I have yet to try and crank it as far as it could go.

Thanks for the info. I use the JK Aviar-x for most shots 275 feet and in, and want something longer but not more overstable as a midrange for those 275-325 foot shots...

The classic Roc would be a good disc for you on those 275-300ft shots, if your throwing that soft aviar-x that far. The classic roc has more high speed stability then the aviar.

Hawk and wasp all the way...

The wasp is like a fraction of the price of a champion roc and it basically does the same thing. :eek:

The hawk is even straighter than a buzzz, yet I prefer a pro d any day, beat in slightly = super straight /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

CE Shark

SM shark :D

I would almost agree if it were not a Candy thread. ;) :D

A fairly beat SE Super Roc works pretty good

...but that isn't candy, is it?

Glad to see most others appreciate the Z BUZZZ as well! that disc is awesome!

I believe the Super Roc has a little bit of Candy blended into it. Take a look at a Super Roc and Pro Line Shark made around the same time, both at Max weight. And the Super Roc is a bit more durable. And it is overstable (as much as a non-candy roc can be) compared to anyother proline molds. But from what I understand Proline is getting more durable with subsequent runs.

Its an SE Super Roc, not a new one

my bad....

I will agree with everybody here that the z-buzzz is one of the best candy midranges out there. I carry at least one of these in my bag at all times. But a disc that many overlook is the Q-Sentinel MF. I think that this disc is a very under rated candy midrange.

QQQQQQQQQQMMMMMMMMMSSSSSSSSSSS

"CE" Element

CE Element is a pretty sweet midrange too. I have an E-Element that is solid black...and is unlike any other plastic that Gateway makes. And that thing is the bomb.

as long as we are talking underrated, what about the ce/champ spider? i love mine. straight,slight fade. thrown at a variety of speeds and winds, these hold up good.

Buzzz/Cobra combo

CE Element is a pretty sweet midrange too. I have an E-Element that is solid black...and is unlike any other plastic that Gateway makes. And that thing is the bomb.



Yeah, I've seen a few myself...they are pretty nice. Don't have any though...I am partial to my ElementXs. Nice plastic though for sure.

Gobstoppers

BUZZZ BUZZZ BUZZZ
WASP WASP WASP

Nuf Said!!!!!!!!

Breeze and Glide

I just got 2 1st run Glides from Pad the other day and im going to try and roll them when i get out to Scottsdale :D I hear they are a little like the Sidewinder. Maybe this will be my new roller disc because the Crush Wildcat and Flash are just too touchy.

I just got 21st run Glides



They've already made 21 runs? That disc must be popular. /msgboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /msgboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

The BEST players (Barry, Ken), throw the BEST midrange - Roc. "Nuff said."

Buzz comes in at a VERY close 2nd, and I havent thrown the Elements yet but i hear very good things about them.

The BEST players could throw ANYTHING and they would still be the BEST!!!!! Plus the BUZZZ didnt come out till after all those guys were already sponsored so how do you know that they wouldnt throw it if they could???

Ill Take a Z Wasp and a Z BUZZZ over a Ching Roc and a beat Roc anyday :D

If you red it correctly it says 2space 1st Run Glides. That little blank spot between the 2 and the 1 is a space. Did you get hit in the head with a Speed Demon???

glides are about the same mold as the newer squalls right?

Not sure but i think the Squal is a little more stable then the Glide. It looks and feels kinda like the Squal but i think its tooled a little different.

Not sure though you might want to ask Keith about that.

Buzz EliteX and Z are fantastic! So are the Elite X and Z Wasp if you need a little more stable action.
I'm sure those two pro guys mentioned would use them if they were sponsored by Discraft .... pretty sure.
I would also mention the EliteX and Z [crystal] Challanger is a great mid-short range disc.
If I were sponsored by Innova ... I would use ROC's too ... really nice, hand picked top of the line, best in the world, expensive ones. lol That are FREE!

'01 Roc is the most predictable candy midrange I can think of...

Also, not trying to bash anyone, but NOTHING beats a DX roc (beaten in to different levels) for MOST midrange shots....

Also, add the CE aviar to MY candy midrange options. I use mine from 200 ft. and in and I LOVE it...

If you red it correctly it says 2space 1st Run Glides. That little blank spot between the 2 and the 1 is a space. Did you get hit in the head with a Speed Demon???



Thus the sarcasm. I was only kidding.

What would hurt worse Speed Demon or the Flick?

any volunteers?

The BEST players could throw ANYTHING and they would still be the BEST!!!!!



why is it, do you suppose, the BEST players throw INNOVA? :D

I would say because back in the day Innova was producing a better selection of discs. In the near future when all the Innova boys and gone i would have to say your going to see alot of World Class players playing for all 3 companies. DISCRAFT Innova and Gateway. :D

My goal is to be one of the DISCRAFT ones :D

no one can really tell anyone what the best midrange ,or any disc for that matter, is. they can only tell people what they throw the best. pretty much anyone can learn to adapt to pretty much any disc and be able to throw every type of throw with that one disc. i myself throw the 05 usdgc rocs. i throw one light 166 that is completely flat, a 172 domey one and a 179 domey roc. the 166 roc is suprisingly straight almost ike a beat in perfect dx roc. and the 179 is pretty stable ut not like a 01 champion roc. i never see myself throwing another midrange exept for a variety of rocs in dx, se, and champion

I'll bet the new INNOVA members like Chris Heeren, Keith Warren, etc. will have something to say about that. I did notice that Discraft got Blakely though. He has great potential. Sorry to all the young talent I have left unnamed, but I am not wealthy enough to follow the NT that closely.

Good luck on achieving your goal of being a member of Team Discraft and competing for the highest honors. If I were younger I might dream of being on Team INNOVA and competing against you. But I found disc golf fairly late in life and don't want to get ahead of myself.

I would say because back in the day Innova was producing a better selection of discs. In the near future when all the Innova boys and gone i would have to say your going to see alot of World Class players playing for all 3 companies. DISCRAFT Innova and Gateway. :D

My goal is to be one of the DISCRAFT ones :D



Do disrespect to anyone, but hes kind of right. Back when the Climos and Hammocks started out, Innova was the only thing worth throwing.

In the future, I think the spread of championships will level out as people realize that other companies actually do make fine products.

I think you are all crazy!!!!! I think that you should choose a disc that feels good in your hand. If it doesnt feel good when you throw it what good is it. Am I right??????

No. Throw what is cool even if its bad for you because that would be good for me.

Honestly though, find out what works for you. Eventually you will find that having three midranges (understable, stable, overstable) will cover all the shots in their certain ranges for you.

The Key is having 1 Mold that will be all three. Hence Z Wasp Z BUZZZ and the D BUZZZ. Only diff is the was has a bead :D

You can even go New Wasp Semi Beat Wasp and Beat Wasp and have the EXACT mold for all shots :D