I've only been at this since April, so bear in mind that you're counseling a green newbie. Right now, for reliable drives with any distance, I have to go sidearm. My backhands just have no power. But I've watched some better players and clips of pros, and know I need to throw backhand better if I ever want to be good.

Just from observing, I'm trying to teach myself an X-step. I looked at some things from Blake's discreview site and I think I've got the idea, if not the execution. Today, I went to a field and worked at it. Sporadic - a few nice drives, a whole lot more bad or mediocre drives. Only one that really outpaced what I can do sidearm.

I know it takes practice, but here's the thing. I think I may be doing something wrong mechanically, because the muscles in my upper arm and lower shoulder started getting really sore, and now a few hours later, they're still aching. Does that suggest to anyone where my flaw might be? I seriously had to stop practicing because it was starting to hurt to the point that I didn't want to test it anymore.

that just the way it is. tough it out. also pace yourself and stretch before you throw. you arm will be sore till your used to that motion and your muscles develope more

: ) :

Today, I went to a field and worked at it. Sporadic - a few nice drives, a whole lot more bad or mediocre drives. Only one that really outpaced what I can do sidearm.

I know it takes practice, but here's the thing. I think I may be doing something wrong mechanically, because the muscles in my upper arm and lower shoulder started getting really sore, and now a few hours later, they're still aching. Does that suggest to anyone where my flaw might be? I seriously had to stop practicing because it was starting to hurt to the point that I didn't want to test it anymore.

Based on the statement that you had one drive that outpaced what you can do sidearm, I'll hazard a guess that you were throwing for distance and were throwing at full or close to full power rather than working on your technique.

What I typically observe with novice players is that they try to employ the "grip it and rip it" technique to get more distance on their throws, i.e., they grip the disc harder, tense (clench) their muscles, and try to overpower the disc (which usually results in jerky arm and body movement, loss of control (disc height and directions), and loss of distance). If that's what you were doing, it's possible you strained something as a result.

The key to distance (whether BH or FH) is to throw smooth and under control. Check out these clips of Brian Schweberger (http://disclife.com/vid/dj02_tar_bs.mov) , Larry Leonard (http://disclife.com/vid/dj02_tar_ll.mov) , and Todd Branch (http://www.disclife.com/vid/dj02_tar_tb.mov) (courtesy of DiscLife.com (http://www.disclife.com)) teeing off on a 400'+ hole, and note how smooth and relaxed they appear.

Let me suggest that while you're learning to throw BH, you back off on the power and forget about pure distance for the moment. Grab your midrange disc of choice (Roc, Wasp, Shark, Storm, etc.), head to a field, and concentrate on getting a smooth, clean flight. Pick a target 200-250' downfield to give yourself an aim point. When you can consistently put it within 30' of your target, increase the distance and start mixing in drivers, but concentrate on remaining smooth and under control.

I was in the same situation.

I was a forehand player and knew if I was ever too progress as far as skill, I would have to learn backhand.

My arm was sore for about two weeks, but I played through it. Just take a break every now and then, and do exactly what fore said ;)

mdoeden:

i second what fore said.

as for what is causing the pain, i'm guessing it's one of a few things. i'll outline them as best i can but it's probably a combination of these factors.

1) you are throwing too hard and tiring out the muscles through a motion they are not accustomed to. if this is the case, i recommend easing up on the arm power and focusing more on the legs leading the whip. the only real "arm strength" comes into play during the follow through (which is more timing anyways) and the larger muscle groups are responsible for the actual whip.

2) you are not following through enough. a sore bicep is a big signal of this one. if this is the case, focus on completing the rotation of your upper body.

3) you are not finishing your follow through. most shoulder/ac joint/rotator cuff soreness will occur if you carry a lot of arm speed into the follow through but then have it abruptly stop rather than slow down as your body rotates through. if this is the case, try continuing your pivot and let your body coast to a stop as it carries through from your arm momentum.

my guess is that it's a combination of 1 and either 2 or 3.
number 1 is going to be the big power thief in this equation. if your upper arm whips prematurely, not only are you probably forcing it with too much muscle, but you will not get nearly the power as if you begin with the legs.

as for the x-step, you may be going too fast/out of control. if this is the case, go slow at first and focus on clean/smooth execution of the steps. your arm should be somewhat relaxed (flexed enough to keep the disc on line) but there should not be a lot of muscle rigidity as this will be slower.

Although I'm not the orginal poster of this message, I did learn a lot from what everyone had to say.

I too am a newbie to the sport, and am having better success (all-be-it somewhat limited) with the forehand throw when compared to my backhand throw. The trouble with my backhand is that when I let the disc fly, it sails high in the air and then either smashes into a tree branch, or veers off to the right and then crashes down. In most cases, it seems I would have been better off with a low and focused forward hand throw.

I do have some questions though:

1) When I throw backhand, should my arm and hand come across the front of my body? In other words, should I be facing sideways, towards the hole rather than having my shoulders square to the hole?

2) If I'm reading the postings correctly, the best thing to do is work on a smooth, fast wrist snap, rather than a big arm wind up. Correct?

Thanks for the tips/help!

answer to #1) the arm and disc pass in front of your body. your shoulders will rotate, but generally you can aim by starting with your throwing shoulder pointed at the target. you will then turn away, and whip open.

answer to #2) i recommend starting off w/ a standard reach back throw and not focus at all upon wrist snap until you already have the fundamentals and timing dow and are able to throw 300+. the wrist snap method requires a lot of timing and it won't be there until your technique is already somewhat fundamentally sound.
even with a full reach back, focus on being smooth and fluid rather than trying to overpower it.

[quote1) When I throw backhand, should my arm and hand come across the front of my body? In other words, should I be facing sideways, towards the hole rather than having my shoulders square to the hole?

[/QUOTE]If you haven't already done so, check out the video clips I linked above. You could do a whole lot worse than trying to emulate Brian, Todd, or Larry! Also, check out the video studies at Blake's website and the throwing charts (http://www.innovadiscs.com/downloads/index.html#throw) on Innova's website.

Hey, thanks for the info and the links to the Innovadiscs website. You know, it never occured to me to check out the disc manufacturer's website for throwing info!

I hope to get out and play a round or two tonight and work on some of those finer points.

Thanks to all who gave advice. Still not getting the distance, but I'll keep at it.

Just as a quickie update...

I went out and played 18 last night with the GF. I focused more on trying to have a controlled, low flying throw, rather than 'gripping it and ripping it' as I was doing before. And, I'm happy to report that the first 9 holes were great.

I managede to throw some nice, low flying discs. The back 9 though were a complete nightmare. I don't know if my arm go tired, my brain got tired, or what. But those back 9 primarly consisted of high flyers, and or worm burners! D'oh!!!

sherman:

good to hear things worked out somewhat. as for the back 9, sounds like you may have tried to throw harder after the front 9 success, as i've seen that quite a bit when teaching players. people often try to increase power with their arm, rather than their legs and it ends up throwing their timing off, usually skying the first couple, then overcompensating and putting them into the ground. my advice is to just try to stay relaxed and let your power increase due to how well you execute and everything will come together on its own.

Blake, that is EXACTLY what happened. I got all confident (dare I say...Cockey?) because of my relative success of the front 9. So when it came time to hit the back 9, where the tees are farther from the basket, I undoubtably started 'gripping it and ripping it'. Which of course resulted in horrible shot making.

I'll have to work on the staying relaxed and focused for the back 9. That is definitely going to be the key.

I've spent the last month working very hard on my technique. First, those videos posted above were some of my best helps. Second, my back 9 are consistently worse than my front 9. I'm pretty sure it's a combination of "Hey, I can do this!" and the arm simply getting tired. The release point (straight to the shoulder, about rib high) is the most important part, and I can feel my arm not being comfortable with that anymore by hole 11 or 12.

It's an unusual motion...easy to tire out unless you're pretty experienced. This thread's helped me too, thanks!

-jms

Well I went out again and played 18 last night. Once again, my front 9 were considerably better than my back 9. Although towards the end of the back 9, say on holes 17 and 18, my throwing improved greatly. I don't know if it was because my arm was getting tired, or my throwing had actually improved.

One thing I did notice though, was that if I concentrated on not holding the disc so tight, that when it came time to throw the disc usually flew straighter. And in some cases, further too.

So now, whenever I approach the tee, I'm concisously thinking NOT to hold the disc in a deah grip. The lighter touch seems to be working - at least for me...And at least on the front 9 :p

One thing I did notice though, was that if I concentrated on not holding the disc so tight, that when it came time to throw the disc usually flew straighter. And in some cases, further too.

So now, whenever I approach the tee, I'm concisously thinking NOT to hold the disc in a deah grip. The lighter touch seems to be working - at least for me...And at least on the front 9 :p

Ideally, you want a FIRM grip, not a tight grip. Your grip should be loose enough that you can move your wrist and forearm freely, but firm enough to maintain the proper orientation of the disc in your hand. I sometimes tell people to imagine they're holding a live mouse or bird in their hand: you want to squeeze firmly enough that it doesn't escape, but not too hard so that you kill it.

I'll have to work on the grip a bit more. I like the analogy of holding on to a live bird. That gives me something a bit more tangible to think of, rather that just trying to go for a 'firm, but not too firm' grip.

I've actually found that getting away from the notion of 'grip it and rip it' has been the most beneficial to my playing. I'm still not getting some kick-butt throws (like I've seen some other dudes do) but at least they are a little more consistent. Well, at least for the first 9...