Which one of these do you think is a better disc?
Personnaly I think that the flash is a better disc I started throwing the Orc When it came out and it was ok, But I recently got the flash and every throw I would use the orc for normally i Grab the flash and get much better results. The only differences that I noticed is that the orc is more over stable and the flazh has a very wide rim that takes a little getting used to but adds so much glide to the disc.

I carry both...

i've been beating up my orc a little and it is flying further!.. Get a much better S Curve result with my beat orc (obviously). My beat orc flys simalar to my Flash....(a little more flippy). My new orc flys long on a line drive.

Erick

so the answer is i like them both.

I Don't know It's kind of up in the air The flash just goes and goes and goes and doesn't turn as soon makes a much better long range disc I think I'll need to expiriment with it a little more because I have Always thrown Both Discs flat when released I need to Try some anhyzer and hyzer shots

Flash

however i do have 1 orc in my bag that i'm not sure what to do with

: ) :

I prefer the Orc over the Flash, but I've also pretty much thrown my Orc exclusively for long drives. Also, I have a feeling once you guys get a hold of some of the Proline Orcs available, you might understand how similar the Flash really is to the Orc. To me, they are basically identical other than the feel of the plastic and I prefer proline plastic over Z.

I prefer the Orc over the Flash, but I've also pretty much thrown my Orc exclusively for long drives. Also, I have a feeling once you guys get a hold of some of the Proline Orcs available, you might understand how similar the Flash really is to the Orc. To me, they are basically identical other than the feel of the plastic and I prefer proline plastic over Z.


I threw a Flash this past weekend into a headwind and it turned over again. Should have thrown my Orc.

I prefer the Orc over the Flash, but I've also pretty much thrown my Orc exclusively for long drives. Also, I have a feeling once you guys get a hold of some of the Proline Orcs available, you might understand how similar the Flash really is to the Orc. To me, they are basically identical other than the feel of the plastic and I prefer proline plastic over Z.


I threw a Flash this past weekend into a headwind and it turned over again. Should have thrown my Orc.



That's what I'm screamin. I don't think Discraft made the Flash stable enough for headwind, but then again I've only thrown a 172 red/orange Flash.

I prefer the Orc over the Flash, but I've also pretty much thrown my Orc exclusively for long drives. Also, I have a feeling once you guys get a hold of some of the Proline Orcs available, you might understand how similar the Flash really is to the Orc. To me, they are basically identical other than the feel of the plastic and I prefer proline plastic over Z.


I threw a Flash this past weekend into a headwind and it turned over again. Should have thrown my Orc.



That's what I'm screamin. I don't think Discraft made the Flash stable enough for headwind, but then again I've only thrown a 172 red/orange Flash.


:eek: :D

Orc all the way. The Flash is too flippy... especially in the wind. I lost one Orc this weekend though. very sad. :(

Flash

Disc up if your worried about the headwind. If that comes into play then it is time for the Talon, Starfire Crush etc..

Flash

Disc up if your worried about the headwind. If that comes into play then it is time for the Talon, Starfire Crush etc..


Cool............An Orc handles the wind problem. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

orc.

The Flash and Orc are definitely too flippy IMO for any kind of headwind unless u r going to keep it hyzering the whole flight.
Or if u really want to get max D, grab a Crush.

Sorry guys, but most people find the Crush to be even less stable than the Flash.

The Crush and Beast are good discs but are far less stable than an Orc and Flash.

Sorry guys, but most people find the Crush to be even less stable than the Flash.

The Crush and Beast are good discs but are far less stable than an Orc and Flash.



There seems to be a wide range of experiences with the Crush. I'm with krevo in that I found the Crush to be much less stable, like a Beast, as compared to the Flash or Orc.

Others claim that their Crush is overstable. I don't get it.

The Crushes were VERY color sensative.

Now, about all you people claiming the Flash and Orc are too flippy, WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU!!!! Have you all forgotten how to throw? These discs are not flippy at all. Yes they will flip if you only throw with your arm like you all do. What happened to the old days where disc golfers had technique? Heres something for you to chew on...I can throw my beat 165 DX Teebird on a 350 slight hyser line with a 20 mph headwind and you guys can't do it with a super low profile overstable disc?! Honestly, you all need to stop buying new discs and start working with what you've got, but most importantly, working on yourselves.


There is no magic disc.

Oh wow, everybody watchout for Graham.

If you can throw a hyzer line in a 20 mph headwind with a teebird, congratulations. You want a cookie?

I'm not saying that to brag. I'm just saying if you can't do it with whats available, you can't do it, period. You know what I'm talking about...people rely too much on their discs and not on themselves.

Isn't it wierd that Ken Climo doesn't throw ORCs. He just throws Teebirds and Eagles. What a loser! I bet he sucks. My Grandpa used those discs.

:confused:

Well...I will post my two cents worth...

My experience with a beast(champion non-barry schultz) is that it is slightly less stable than a crush. I would say that a crush falls between a beast and an orc. Now, the flash I would consider to be the least stable out of all of these discs. As for headwinds, I would say the orc is probably the best one out of the four listed. But my personal preference for a head wind driver is a good old predator.

Orc.

I doubt that I would throw my Crush into a headwind unless I really really needed the extra distance. Otherwise, I would throw my 175g Viking or a good ol Firebird. 350 without worrying about it doing something freaky.
Also, nobody said anything was wrong with the Teebird. I love mine, it just does not go super far. Much more reliable, tho.

Now, about all you people claiming the Flash and Orc are too flippy, WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU!!!! Have you all forgotten how to throw? These discs are not flippy at all. Yes they will flip if you only throw with your arm like you all do. What happened to the old days where disc golfers had technique? Heres something for you to chew on...I can throw my beat 165 DX Teebird on a 350 slight hyser line with a 20 mph headwind and you guys can't do it with a super low profile overstable disc?! Honestly, you all need to stop buying new discs and start working with what you've got, but most importantly, working on yourselves.



Wow, there are a lot of absolutes in that statement. In the future I would consider using less of the "everyone else except me" statements. Not everyone reading this thread has horrible form, and not everyone chooses to throw understable discs into headwinds. We are all from different regions too. For some ppl headwind might mean 3-5mph, while others might be referring to 18-20mph as their normal headwind.

I think you are smart enough to figure out how to get your point across without being so rude.

And to answer your question...
No, I have not forgotten how to throw.

Oh wow, everybody watchout for Graham.

If you can throw a hyzer line in a 20 mph headwind with a teebird, congratulations. You want a cookie?


Do they make a Crush in cookie flavor >The Crushes were VERY color sensative.
:p

Now, about all you people claiming the Flash and Orc are too flippy, WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU!!!! Have you all forgotten how to throw? These discs are not flippy at all. Yes they will flip if you only throw with your arm like you all do. What happened to the old days where disc golfers had technique? Heres something for you to chew on...I can throw my beat 165 DX Teebird on a 350 slight hyser line with a 20 mph headwind and you guys can't do it with a super low profile overstable disc?! Honestly, you all need to stop buying new discs and start working with what you've got, but most importantly, working on yourselves.



Wow, there are a lot of absolutes in that statement. In the future I would consider using less of the "everyone else except me" statements. Not everyone reading this thread has horrible form, and not everyone chooses to throw understable discs into headwinds. We are all from different regions too. For some ppl headwind might mean 3-5mph, while others might be referring to 18-20mph as their normal headwind.

I think you are smart enough to figure out how to get your point across without being so rude.

And to answer your question...
No, I have not forgotten how to throw.


I'm Hungry for a Cookie now !!!!!! I throw Hyzer Good.
Headwinds are Yummy !!!!! :D

Now, about all you people claiming the Flash and Orc are too flippy, WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU!!!! Have you all forgotten how to throw? These discs are not flippy at all. Yes they will flip if you only throw with your arm like you all do. What happened to the old days where disc golfers had technique? Heres something for you to chew on...I can throw my beat 165 DX Teebird on a 350 slight hyser line with a 20 mph headwind and you guys can't do it with a super low profile overstable disc?! Honestly, you all need to stop buying new discs and start working with what you've got, but most importantly, working on yourselves.



So when were "the old days?" 2002? 1999? Because the Teebird doesn't seem like a particularly old-fashioned disc to me. In fact, I think it represents a whole lot of technological progress over the first golf discs. Why is it acceptable for you to take advantage of this technology, but not for others to use slightly more advanced discs? Pretty arbitrary, if you ask me. If it's all about the thrower, why aren't you using an Aero? Must be some problem with your technique.

Dude guys!


Graham can knife hyzer an original Aero 700ft into a hurricane and still park it like he's valet'n a car!!!!



LEARN HOW TO THROW GUYS CMON YOU NEED TO START USING JUST ONE DISC. CARRY A BAG AROUND WITH 100 ROCS AND TEEBIRDS IN IT. BE ORIGINAL!!!!



























:D :p /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I agree with the wind at your back I like a flash but if there is any other type of wind then there is to much of chance that the Flash will flip so I bring out the ORC.
But hey it's what ever works for you.

IMO the orc flies further and is much more predictable for me. I have a 170g blue flash and the thing is less stable then a beast for me. they make excellent rollers though thats primarily what i use the flash for now.

These wide wing discs are very color sensative, and are also sensative to slight mold imperfections. Its just the nature of the (for lack of a better word) beast.

I know alot of people talk about how certain colors or more stable than others, but I feel that without some sort of mechanized way of throwing the disc, one couldn't ever be completely positive of that.

Just because you throw a disc (what you think is) exactly the same way everytime, doesn't mean it's exactly the same way.

How could you judge what color is more stable?

I know alot of people talk about how certain colors or more stable than others, but I feel that without some sort of mechanized way of throwing the disc, one couldn't ever be completely positive of that.

Just because you throw a disc (what you think is) exactly the same way everytime, doesn't mean it's exactly the same way.

How could you judge what color is more stable?



I know I dont understand that either. This is said to be true especialy with Discraft, ( Crushes and Flashes mainly I hear about ). If they are the same molds and the same plastic I dont understand how they can have differnt caracteristics (sp?). I would think weight would have more of a impact on stability in any given situation from the same discs than color would.

I know alot of people talk about how certain colors or more stable than others, but I feel that without some sort of mechanized way of throwing the disc, one couldn't ever be completely positive of that.

Just because you throw a disc (what you think is) exactly the same way everytime, doesn't mean it's exactly the same way.

How could you judge what color is more stable?



So you're saying that there's a possibility that a Stingray is actually more overstable than a Monster or is there some sort of machine you've been using to test them out?

Given several throws it's pretty easy to tell the differences between discs. Do you really think people always unintentionally throw blue Flashes so they were more flippy than orange Flashes? If there really are these slight variations in how we throw that we don't have any control over and we can't percieve, but have a large impact on how a disc flies then wouldn't everyone think all of the different colors all fly the same after a lot of throws? If blue Flashes are consistantly more flippy even with these variations doesn't that mean that they're definately more understable?

I'm not saying that to brag. I'm just saying if you can't do it with whats available, you can't do it, period. You know what I'm talking about...people rely too much on their discs and not on themselves.




Keep in mind this is the same guy who almost quit because he lost a specific disc...

http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Equipment&Number=206696&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

Graham, I have two s/h chiefs if you're interested.

I know alot of people talk about how certain colors or more stable than others, but I feel that without some sort of mechanized way of throwing the disc, one couldn't ever be completely positive of that.

Just because you throw a disc (what you think is) exactly the same way everytime, doesn't mean it's exactly the same way.

How could you judge what color is more stable?



So you're saying that there's a possibility that a Stingray is actually more overstable than a Monster or is there some sort of machine you've been using to test them out?

Given several throws it's pretty easy to tell the differences between discs. Do you really think people always unintentionally throw blue Flashes so they were more flippy than orange Flashes? If there really are these slight variations in how we throw that we don't have any control over and we can't percieve, but have a large impact on how a disc flies then wouldn't everyone think all of the different colors all fly the same after a lot of throws? If blue Flashes are consistantly more flippy even with these variations doesn't that mean that they're definately more understable?


Well............my Stingray on my video game is pretty stable !!!
It can be thrown hard for distance with the right amount of angle. :D This is just a video game. :D

I know I dont understand that either. This is said to be true especialy with Discraft, ( Crushes and Flashes mainly I hear about ). If they are the same molds and the same plastic I dont understand how they can have differnt caracteristics (sp?). I would think weight would have more of a impact on stability in any given situation from the same discs than color would.



They are the same disc and the same mold and the same plastic BUT certain COLOR cool Faster then others because of the amount of die they have to put in to get that color. This is what makes some colors more overstable then others.

I know I dont understand that either. This is said to be true especialy with Discraft, ( Crushes and Flashes mainly I hear about ). If they are the same molds and the same plastic I dont understand how they can have differnt caracteristics (sp?). I would think weight would have more of a impact on stability in any given situation from the same discs than color would.



Well, if they're different colors then they can't be exactly the same material. Perhaps the dyes they use cause the discs to cool at different rates so they have slightly different shapes or perhaps the dyes have different densities so discs of the same weight but different color can be quite a bit different.

I think it's easy to look at oddities like this in the wrong way. I think it's best to make an observation and then hypothisize on why you're observing what you're observing rather than discount the observation because it's not what you expected.

My honest opinion is any disc that has a color considered "less stable" or "more stable" than another color just needs to be compensated for. As long as they're the same mold, nitpicking about the color and how much it'll offset the standard flight patterns that your used to is entirely too time consuming. If you like throwing Wildcats, honestly does it matter if hot pink is SLIGHTLY more stable than polka dot. Just throw the **** thing.

and for the record, both me and my roommates have each throw red, orange, blue, and yellow flashes.

ALL of them do the same thing everytime, although there's no truely scientific way of verifying that, unless we had a machine recreating the same throw over and over again.

and for the record, both me and my roommates have each throw red, orange, blue, and yellow flashes.

ALL of them do the same thing everytime, although there's no truely scientific way of verifying that, unless we had a machine recreating the same throw over and over again.



Ron Converse (team Discraft) told me the first run Orange Flash that he received from Discraft, before they were available to the general public, was a lot more overstable than any other run! I would love to have one of these! :D

and for the record, both me and my roommates have each throw red, orange, blue, and yellow flashes.

ALL of them do the same thing everytime, although there's no truely scientific way of verifying that, unless we had a machine recreating the same throw over and over again.



Ron Converse (team Discraft) told me the first run Orange Flash that he received from Discraft, before they were available to the general public, was a lot more overstable than any other run! I would love to have one of these! :D



Did Ron say it was the run, or the color?

We talked about color on a lot of discs. Color makes a difference. But he has thrown other orange Flash discs that are not as overstable as this one.

and for the record, both me and my roommates have each throw red, orange, blue, and yellow flashes.

ALL of them do the same thing everytime, although there's no truely scientific way of verifying that, unless we had a machine recreating the same throw over and over again.



It depens on what you consider "truly scientific." There are a lot of scientific studies out there and even some entire fields that rely on surveys as a form of research. A vast majority of the people I have heard from, including some players who I know to be good and respect their opinions report that color does make a difference. The reason it's generally accepted to be true by people who haven't experienced it themselves is that there are a lot of people who report it to be true compared with the very few who report that color does not make a difference. With a large sample like that the variances in how people throw are minimized and the actual flight charictaristics of the disc become apparent. Sure there's always the chance that I'll be one of those people who won't see a difference but I know that chance is low.

I actually also like the idea that different colors have slightly different flight charictaristics. How many times have you tried a disc but wished it were just slightly more overstable or understable? Combining that with the fact that they're made in highly durable plastic gives you a mold that lets you choose from several different stabilities and gives you confidence that the disc will retain it's flight charictaristcs for a long time. It's like having a perfectly worn disc that won't get messed up if you hit a tree or something.

I actually also like the idea that different colors have slightly different flight charictaristics. How many times have you tried a disc but wished it were just slightly more overstable or understable? Combining that with the fact that they're made in highly durable plastic gives you a mold that lets you choose from several different stabilities and gives you confidence that the disc will retain it's flight charictaristcs for a long time. It's like having a perfectly worn disc that won't get messed up if you hit a tree or something.



Excellent point. I have heard people whine and whine about the variations between colors. If you don't like it then buy one color. I suggest the clear aqua blue flashes to players that I know don't have as much power as others. And the people that do have power I suggest to them to buy the orange ones.
Thank you Garu for bringing up a solid point!

Also, if you guys haven't noticed, these wide rimmed discs are EXTREMELY angle sensetive when compared with older drivers. Just a slight variation in release angle can result it a completely differnt flight. Now I'm not used to these big wings like many people are now, but when I try to throw them, the angle sensativity makes more difference than the color.

DX type plastics don't seem to have the same color problems as premium plastics do. Maybe Innova and Discraft should start making more of their new discs in DX type plastic. Maybe a KC type plastic (ala KC ROC). ORC type discs don't last long in this plastic though, but for the majority of distance holes, trees arent a problem.

Now I'm not used to these big wings like many people are now, but when I try to throw them, the angle sensativity makes more difference than the color.



Graham, maybe you should leave this discussion up to people that are used to throwing these discs, rather than contradicting yourself and telling everyone that they don't know what they are doing. If you admittedly aren't used to a flash or an orc, don't tell other people how to, or how not to use them.
We all know that you think you are a badass know-it-all golfer, congratulations, you win, now shut up and let people discuss a topic that they want to discuss, with other ppl that use the equipment listed.

Have fun with your DX plastics buddy, and try not to hit too many trees up in Washington.

dx beast ----very long, consistant. can handle a little headwind and is not color sensitive. my longest driver. but--in relation to the original topic, i find the flash to be generally less stable than the orc. i do not use the flash, but will occasionally pull out an orc for a more than a little headwind when i need max d, or if i want more fade than the dx beast

I know I dont understand that either. This is said to be true especialy with Discraft, ( Crushes and Flashes mainly I hear about ). If they are the same molds and the same plastic I dont understand how they can have differnt caracteristics (sp?). I would think weight would have more of a impact on stability in any given situation from the same discs than color would.



They are the same disc and the same mold and the same plastic BUT certain COLOR cool Faster then others because of the amount of die they have to put in to get that color. This is what makes some colors more overstable then others.



Ok, with that being said, and by that analogy. Wouldnt that be true with all disc manufactuors, including Innova etc.. How come it seems to be more prevelant with Discraft. I only hear about it with the crushes and flashes. I have never read of someone saying a blue orc is less stable than say a red one. I am not trying to argue your point. I am simply trying to understand why this is. With that being said, does this characteristic hold true with all disks of the same color, meaning are all orange discs more overstable than say a blue disc no matter the model or maker ?

I have found that the red comets are more overstable than the yellow ones. No kidding. Also, the red Z-Xtremes (1st run) were significantly more stable than their yellow counterparts.

Orc. Orc. Orc. Orc.

Ok, with that being said, and by that analogy. Wouldnt that be true with all disc manufactuors, including Innova etc.. How come it seems to be more prevelant with Discraft. I only hear about it with the crushes and flashes. I have never read of someone saying a blue orc is less stable than say a red one. I am not trying to argue your point. I am simply trying to understand why this is. With that being said, does this characteristic hold true with all disks of the same color, meaning are all orange discs more overstable than say a blue disc no matter the model or maker ?



All very good points. Keep in mind these are all just wild guesses. I actually know very little about the processes they use to make discs...Perhaps it's because Discraft uses different materials, a different mix of materials or a different cooling method than the other companies. It could also be that other companies take steps to minimize the effect and Discraft actually takes steps to make sure the variance happens. Did you notice that the stability of the Flashes changes in the order of the colors of the rainbow? While that could be coincidence it does kind of look like it was planned out.

Since I've got a "wienie" arm.... I found the Orc's to be too overstable for me and ended up using my TeeBirds instead since I got similiar distance and was usually more accurate.

A few weeks back I was given an orange Flash (171 g) by the local Discraft pro and decided to give it a try. For me the Flash is like an Orc but not as overstable..... and it's definitely found a place in my bag. After reading all of the talk about how different color Flashers flew differently, I picked up a blue one (169 g) in hopes that it would be even less overstable. On the first throw I realized that the blue disc was indeed much less overstable than the orange one. In the hands of a power thrower, they would probably find the blue Flashes to be flippy..... but for me I really like how this disc throws and it's allowed me to reach some holes that before I was rarely able to birdie because my drivers hyzered out on me.

Until recently, my bag was basically full of Innova discs (Rhynos, Classic Rocs, Rocs & TeeBirds).... but now I've got 2 Flashes in there as well (orange & blue).

YMMV

aRE Dee

I too find the Flash to be the most understable of all the wide-rimmed discs. It seems to have about the same resistance to high-speed turn as a Champion Beast, but does not fade as hard. I think it is really important to differentiate between high-speed turn and fade when talking about overstability because when many people talk about stability they simply mean one or the other.

Color variations definetely do exist in every company. For example I have probably owned at some time or another 50 different wide rimmed discs. Out of all of these my first run blue Crush is the most high-speed stable. It takes more speed to turn than all of the Orcs I've thrown, however, if it does turn it is much less likely to come back than the Orcs. Orcs seem to show the least color variation of all the wide-rimmed discs, but this is probably due to the little bit extra overstability. Beasts and Flashes show the most variation for me, due to less stability of the mold...

I think that color variations are more pronounced in wide-rimmed discs because these discs are more speed sensitive than older discs. However, I disagree with Discgraham's contention that wide-rimmed discs are more angle sensitive. I think it is the opposite. I throw Leopards and Teebirds as well as all the wide rimmed discs and I can say pretty definitively that the older discs are more angle sensitive. Wide-rimmed discs are so fast that if I snap them hard with hyzer angle they almost always flip flat pretty quickly and fly pretty similar to a lighter, flat throw. Now take the Leopard, which is as understable as any Beast or Flash when thrown flat. If I put hyzer angle on my release the disc climbs more and often never gets flat, fading hard. My Champion Teebird holds just about any release angle, rarely "flipping" at all, whether it be flat from hyzer or turnover from flat. So, these older discs are more release angle sensitive than the new wide-rimmed discs.

As disc molds differentiate more and more from one another, the existing diction regarding disc flight fails to accurately describe these differences. We need some new termanology because the Teebird/Leopard/etc. are impossible to compare with Orcs/Flashes/etc. with archaic and rudimentary terms such as "understable" or "overstable".

Since I've got a "wienie" arm.... I found the Orc's to be too overstable for me and ended up using my TeeBirds instead since I got similiar distance and was usually more accurate.

A few weeks back I was given an orange Flash (171 g) by the local Discraft pro and decided to give it a try. For me the Flash is like an Orc but not as overstable..... and it's definitely found a place in my bag. After reading all of the talk about how different color Flashers flew differently, I picked up a blue one (169 g) in hopes that it would be even less overstable. On the first throw I realized that the blue disc was indeed much less overstable than the orange one. In the hands of a power thrower, they would probably find the blue Flashes to be flippy..... but for me I really like how this disc throws and it's allowed me to reach some holes that before I was rarely able to birdie because my drivers hyzered out on me.

Until recently, my bag was basically full of Innova discs (Rhynos, Classic Rocs, Rocs & TeeBirds).... but now I've got 2 Flashes in there as well (orange & blue).

YMMV

aRE Dee



I like the sound of that. I too am currently a weenie arm and find my orange Flash to be too high speed overstable to be used in many situations. I'll definately have to check out a blue one.

I have an orange flash. I love that disc.

Innova = bad

Discraft = good

I took a lot of Z and Champion merch out to the football field last night so that I could learn what all these new discs are. Some of them are new to everyone and some are just new to me because I only recently started carrying Innova.

I think the Flash compares most closely to the Viking and the Crush to the Orc. The Beast seemed to be somewhere in between. If the Orc or the Crush are too overstable for you, try the Viking or the Flash. Brother Jon, my Illinois spies tell me, is getting huge distance with the Flash.

Downwind, I was getting my best distance with the Beast but upwind I could not keep it stable. Crushes and Orcs were tricky upwind, especially since the wind was so variable. When the wind was not blowing the Crushes and Orcs were longer for me. [A front was passing through and the wind was really variable from one set of throws to the next. Plus I was going back and forth on a football field to get both winds.] Upwind the best disc I tried was the Tsunami. It is more overstable than the Crush or the Orc, and finishes hard to the hyzer direction, but is just about as long. Upwind it would turn over a little but then come back, a lot like the Beasts going downwind.

My long drive was a downwind Crush that went almost from back end to back end, right around 358 feet. My best upwind was a Tsunami that went a little over 330, from backend to just over the goal line. I was throwing from soft, lush grass and that was taking a little off my distance.

These comparisons always depend on the disc speed and spin generated by the thrower. Someone with my throwing style will throw longer with a Crush while someone with less velocity and more spin will do better with a Flash. Just because the guy who throws 400 feet is doing it with disc X does not mean that is the disc for you.

That's why you need to buy 50 discs a week! You have to have one in size, color, mold, weight and plastic type! :D

Just because the guy who throws 400 feet is doing it with disc X does not mean that is the disc for you.




Yes, thank you! And that pretty much sums it all up.

My long drive was a downwind Crush that went almost from back end to back end, right around 358 feet.



But without your micrometer, you couldn't tell for sure . . .

Color variations definetely do exist in every company.



Has anyone looked closely to see if the discs are otherwise identical? Looking at different discs recently, I've been amazed at how much variation in shape there can be among discs of the same mold. Sometimes the dome height can differ by a couple milimeters, which is surely enough to affect the flight. Other times, different colors of the same plastic feel very different in the hand. This seems truest in Gateway's S plastic. I have a blue S Sabre that is soft and very grippy; my brother has a red one that's slick and rock hard. Finally, if you look at recent Z and Champion plastic, the pearly/translucent varieties seem to come out softer and flatter, while the clearest stuff is harder and domier, even in the same color.

To me, it's hard to believe that color alone makes a difference. However, if color determines the disc's shape, that should definitely affect the flight.

It also makes sense that these differences would be most pronounced in molds like the Flash. If you look at a Flash and an Orc side by side, they look very similar. But by most accounts, they fly differently. So small changes in shape between different color Flashes, Crushes, etc., should definitely affect their stability.

I have an orange flash. I love that disc.

Innova = bad

Discraft = good



innova = good
discrape = bad

innova = good
discrape = bad



Forgiven no one cares what you have to say. The sun in Cali must be frying your brain :o

Just playin man. When you going to come to another tourny im at so i can whip you again :o

Wish you were coming to Brent Hambrick this weekend. See you are worlds

innova = good
discrape = bad



Forgiven no one cares what you have to say. The sun in Cali must be frying your brain :o



no that would be all the drugs i did as a yut



[/QUOTE] Just playin man. When you going to come to another tourny im at so i can whip you again :o

[/QUOTE]


i didn't do that many drugs to want to get my acehole kicked by you again :eek:



[/QUOTE] Wish you were coming to Brent Hambrick this weekend. See you are worlds

[/QUOTE]

the brent hambrick tourny is one of the best tournys i ever went to,have a great time and play smart bro.

i do love talking smack with you thou :D

Just check out the Dicnut's poll and that should tell anybody anything they want to know.

why are these discs being compared anyways? The Orc and Flash fly totally different, or at least the ones i've thrown have.

I can usually get good line drives with the Orc, my driver of choice. But I picked up a green clear flash, and can't keep it straight to save my life. Even on an S line it just hyzers hard. Its Domey Stiff and Clear. No Likeee /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I never pull an Orc out of my bag unless I have an open 400ft ahead of me....if you can get the Orc to flex then you will have an awsome pinpoint long drive. However with the Flash it has proven itself too understable for me on normal drives. So it is my disc for long uphill shots, or long rollers. Once it gets "seasoned" just a little it rolls(flips) like a brand new Sidewinder.

Personally, I like the Flash a lot better. The Orc that i had (opaque 174 gram) was pretty overstable compared to my Flash, even more so than a Crush. The Orc and Flash are NOTHING alike except for their speed. If you are going to compare an Orc to anything, compare it to a Crush. Those 2 discs fly almost exactly the same for me.

ORC first run :D

I find the Orc too touchy for me. It seems that if it files straight & level at 90% snap, it'll flip & roll w/ 92% snap or tombstone hyzer at 88% snap.

I find the Orc too touchy for me. It seems that if it files straight & level at 90% snap, it'll flip & roll w/ 92% snap or tombstone hyzer at 88% snap.



Exactly. Thats why I stopped throwing Orcs. I spent countless hours throwing them in open fields and I came to the conclusion that they were too touchy. Not to say that I won't try them again in the future, but right now I am content with my more predictable Crush.

I would say the crush and flash are the most similar.
The orc I would say flies like a beast.

I like them both but my no means can I compare the two. They truely are different in every aspect.

Orc has no purpose in my bag because that is what I use the Crush/Flick for,
The flash is my long turnover or ultra-long roller

I love them both but....the orc is the better disc by far I think......the flash goes right,I have discs that will do that.....the orc I can do many things with......

I throw Orcs but also like Flashes. I have been trying to limit the number of different molds I throw to try and gain more consistency. I currently throw mainly Firebirds, Teebirds, and Orcs for drives occasionally rotating a Leopard and/or a Beast into the mix.

I�ve got a pretty technique on my drives (Thanks STTeve Johnson!) with decent distance and snap. On some days the Orc is dialed in for me and I can really throw it as accurately as I do with my Teebirds�only farther�but on other days it�s like poking the Tiger. However, a casual conversation with Justin Jernigan after a Sanford monthly (those guys rock!) while throwing for distance in a field, showed me my red herring while throwing the Orc. Justin passed on to me what Climo had passed on to him�.�You can throw the Orc with little (less) effort�� After that, Justin crushed a long straight effortless drive. I gave it a go and threw a few at from around 65% - 80%. I found that it made a huge difference for me in terms of controlling Orc while getting meaningful distance.

The next time you are doing a little field work give the Orc or the Flash a go with less effort adjusting the disc angle (I threw mine flatter). I�ve gotten great results from that tip from Justin.

Cheers

orc.



Orc Orc
175 168
/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

The Orc and the Flash are typically the only two long distance drivers I carry.

I don't consider one anymore valuable than the other as they, for me atleast serve different purposes.
Into a headwind the Orc is my go to disc. It hyzer skips very well also. It can be an incredibly long backand cut roller as well.

The Flash on the otherhand goes phenomonally far if you have plenty of open space to throw it, especially with a tailwind.(its too unstable for any kind of headwind) It has much better glide than the Orc but requires a lot of heigth and a long left to right anhyzer flight pattern to realize its potential. I've thrown this disc about 450 on flat ground. However if you have a more powerful snap you may have to
put significant hyzer on it to keep it from flipping too hard. Flashes are also very good rollers.