Has anybody ever seen or thrown one?

It is the new Gateway Proto disc. Saw one today at the Flatts Classic here in St.Thomas, Gigantic rim, Almost too Big,

I didnt get to throw it but I watched a couple guys throw it and the crused it pretty good!!

I picked one up at the Wisconsin Junior Championships in Kaukauna.

Thing is 161 and was extremely overstable the first time I threw it. I took it out to a field and was surprised how far it was going. Guess first impressions aren't always the ones you should judge by, especially with plastic ;)

Daves working on getting them to come out a little domier, giving them more glide and making them slightly high speed understable.

seems like they can't get a speed-demon like hi speed driver to be anything but overstable. i know spirits can go far and straight--but they have to be beat up 1st. i was hoping the illusion would be what the spirit was supposed to be---fast as the speed demon but not overstable---oh well--i guess it was just an illusion. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

The rim on the illusion is the same size as the Spirit and Speed Demon. There is a little more plastic right on the nose and the rim has a tiny amount of concave. This disc is faster than the Speed demon and Spirit and I would be willing to bet "THE FASTEST DISC ON THE MARKET"
The 1st runs were either blank or had a small Gateway arch stamp. They were pretty flat. The 2nd run have just a "G" stamp and had a little bit of a dome to them. The 2nd run were also a bit tackier on the surface and hold the turnover a little longer.
Most HIGH SPEED discs seem to start to decrease their speed at 70-80% of the flight while the ILLUSION doesnt slowdown until about 90% and then fades at the end.
Both runs were white and molded in a special version of the S plastic, very similiar to 8X, 10X KC ROC material. We will be running some in the H and E next week. WE havent sent them off to the pdga but they are sure to pass all the tech standards.
If I were to make an Innova comparison I would say they were a cross between a beast and a firebird. for a discraft comparison maybe a crush and X predator.
The speed and stability are in sinc for any big power thrower and players with less power can turn them over and get a lot of forward penetration . With a little more dome on them in the H and E the glide will increase.

You know, Someone should try to make a Driver with a CONVEX rim. I wonder if that would work?!


This disc sounds great, but the Element is going to be awesome. Gateway S plastic is so much nicer than naything else out there, imo.

so you want a short putter?

No. like a driver. Maybe with a convex rim and a slightly concave (ala X-Clone) flight plate. It would be interesting!

I think they should make discs with cameras and little jet boosters to increase rotation.

You could also watch the discs' exact flight and steer it, why not get a remote controll with a 17' plasma flat screen?

:D:D:D

We actually ran a few Yellow Illusions, prototyping a softer blend. Since it was a small amount we didnt dry the material and the rims puffed out(G6i ish). They seem to have an abundance of lift if thrown flat and way too much lift if the nose is up any at all.
They were turning over a lot easier too, especially into the wind.
They were flying real nice downwind.

In case you havent noticed the Wizard has a convexed wing!
I think a mid-range for beginners would work well with a convexed wing, but experonced players need the concave to stabilize flights with a lot of velocity and revolutions.

You could also watch the discs' exact flight and steer it, why not get a remote controll with a 17' plasma flat screen?



...on the next episode of Pimp My Disc... ;)

Sounds like a pretty neat disc...I may have to look into one :)

The disc was pure white with nothing on it. The plastic felt soooo nice in the hand it was niec and grippy too. One of the guys here at the Flatts Classic actually turned it over, but it did come back fairly quick.

In case you havent noticed the Wizard has a convexed wing!
I think a mid-range for beginners would work well with a convexed wing, but experonced players need the concave to stabilize flights with a lot of velocity and revolutions.



Convexed wing?
Concave wing?

God I'm newbie..

Concave is caved in and convex is bulged out.

I just threw the Illusion today and in one fell swoop it blew the Orcs out of my bag. It is fast, fast, fast and I poked it out to about 450' on the flats. I would say it is a faster slightly more stable Orc. Just what I needed.

Go get one when you can...you will become a Gateway believer.

Sounds awesome, but how is it into the wind. I throw Orcs, but find they get flippy into headwinds. The E Spirit is my headwind disc, but I have to beat them up before I can get real distance. Something that would replace both out of the box would be awesome. Where can I get one of these...or ten. :D

I'm glad to hear that many of you are giving the Illusion a shot. I have yet to throw one, but with talking to Dave, they sound pretty sweet. Keep it up, and Gateway will "git er dun"!!

I hope I can ask this without getting dumped on...

Anyway, the promise for the Spirit was that it would be a more stable (notice I did not say "more overstable") version of the Speed Demon. I thought this would be a nice disc, but after trying several Spirits (low 160s, several plastics), I concluded they were for all practical purposes as overstable as the SD and not very useful for me.

It is now claimed the the Illusion is the new, more stable ("less overstable") Gateway driver. But is it really a straighter-flying disc? Or is it still pretty dang overstable, even at lighter weights? I suspect the latter but hope for the former.

Meanwhile, the Flash is the only new driver I have tried in a while that has really done anything for me. I suspect the Illusion is much more overstable than the Flash -- has anyone thrown both discs? That would be a useful point of comparison.

Thanks!

Does the Illusion have the wider rim like the Beast, Orc, Crush, and Flash??
Just wondering, it seems that is the current trend in Distance Drivers. I would like to try it if it has the rim size of a WildCat or FireBird.
Cheers,
Matt

A longer faster driver from Gateway named the Illusion.


Hmmm.

Nope, not gonna do it, that's just too freakin easy.

A longer faster driver from Gateway named the Illusion.


Hmmm.

Nope, not gonna do it, that's just too freakin easy.



Real original. You already made that joke on a previous thread.

Anyways. The rim is wide, just the same as a Spirit and the Speed Demon. As far as stability, Dave and others give the following comparison:
If I were to make an Innova comparison I would say they were a cross between a beast and a firebird. for a discraft comparison maybe a crush and X predator.

And as far as the Spirit goes, my candy like ones are very straight, while my "H" and "H/E" ones are overstable. My guess is that you haven't gotten your hands on any of those, otherwise you'd be hooked.

I just got an "E" Spirit. It is pale green and is not candy plastic. I guess that makes it an H/E, but I'm not sure. Anyway, this disc is exactly what I have been looking for to substitue for my Orcs in headwind/strong crosswind situations, or for a more overstable flight path altogether. It is essentially a "lipless" speed demon. I have had excellent results so far with this disc and it has replaced my monster as my wind driver because it flies farther and faster with a truer flight path and finishes more or less knifing into the ground. For me, this disc really fills a niche in the market that was previously missing. I won't be trying to beat up my Spirit either, I like it just the way it is. That said, I will try an illusion when I have the opportunity, but I still love my Orcs and they will probably not be unseated as my go-to distance drivers.

Real original. You already made that joke on a previous thread.




True I had used it before, but I hadn't used on Dave yet. But, if its mine, its still original, just redundant. Of course you're right in assuming I can do better. I'm sorry to disappoint. I'll try harder. :)

Throwing it tonight, We'll see how it goes

[/QUOTE]


Anyways. The rim is wide, just the same as a Spirit and the Speed Demon. As far as stability, Dave and others give the following comparison:



[/QUOTE]
I am not familar with the Spirit or the Speed Demon, so the rim reference means nothing to me...if you could compare the Illusion to the Orc or Beast that would be awesome.
Cheers,
Matt
I don't throw Gateway but am willing to give them a try if the rim is not huge like a Orc.

Real original. You already made that joke on a previous thread.




True I had used it before, but I hadn't used on Dave yet. But, if its mine, its still original, just redundant. Of course you're right in assuming I can do better. I'm sorry to disappoint. I'll try harder. :)



Good point. I got your point though! :D but anywho...

Can't wait to try one of these out. I loved my spirit until the disc god's decided to lay claim to in in a big patch of thorns. The Spirit's with the actual Spirit stamp on them are super sweet. It was like a really fast teebird for me. Anyway...enough with the drift...bring on the Illusion....

I hope I can ask this without getting dumped on...

Anyway, the promise for the Spirit was that it would be a more stable (notice I did not say "more overstable") version of the Speed Demon. I thought this would be a nice disc, but after trying several Spirits (low 160s, several plastics), I concluded they were for all practical purposes as overstable as the SD and not very useful for me.

It is now claimed the the Illusion is the new, more stable ("less overstable") Gateway driver. But is it really a straighter-flying disc? Or is it still pretty dang overstable, even at lighter weights? I suspect the latter but hope for the former.

Meanwhile, the Flash is the only new driver I have tried in a while that has really done anything for me. I suspect the Illusion is much more overstable than the Flash -- has anyone thrown both discs? That would be a useful point of comparison.

Thanks!



Like I said, the illusion is very similar to the orc in all aspects. It does get a little flippy into a headwind. It is actually a straighter flying disc. The E Spirit and the illusion are a great pair for your bag.

The rim is pretty wide, it is the only way to get the speed though.

The flash does not at all fly like the illusion. The illusion can handle the power of bigger arms, but not really overstable like a spirit or speed demon. The flash will flip and not come back when thrown hard.

We are runnig "H" Illusions right now and should have some to ship soon. I will test fly some in a few hours and post here some of the results.

I took out a stack{5} and threw them today.After 15 throws I gave them back.I threw hyser,straight and anhyser and they all did the same thing.Flipped over.I already have a stack of used SE TLs that do that.I am however hopeful that the new runs in different plastics will hold longer and cant wait to see those.Are those in S plastic? I had a Spirit in S that seemed alot more grippy.

Flipped over? that is sweet. Gateway really needs an understable driver. I wanna try! :)

They have understable discs.You just have to slam them into trees, parking lots,picnic tables, and the like.It was really fast out of my hand and I dont think i mentioned that.

Flipped over? that is sweet. Gateway really needs an understable driver. I wanna try! :)



Well, here ya go!

They have understable discs.You just have to slam them into trees, parking lots,picnic tables, and the like.It was really fast out of my hand and I dont think i mentioned that.



Sabres in any weight have always been flippy for me -I roll mine. Plus, lightweight Blazes tend to flip a little too!

But Sabres and Apaches are too slow for a distance driver.

But Sabres and Apaches are too slow for a distance driver.



True. Although I've seen some fellow Gateway guys throw Sabres well over 400'!! But I can only manage 300' in the air with one, if I'm lucky. To each his own. I know a rec who rolls a NEW Speed Demon. Horrible technique but it works for him!!!

I know a rec who rolls a NEW Speed Demon. Horrible technique but it works for him!!!



I've been learning a forehand roller with a new Speed Demon. It's pretty easy - just set it down almost vertical, with plenty of speed and snap. Horrible technique? Maybe. But I managed 350' of straight-line distance on my first couple tries. Ex-baseball players, and anybody with a good overhand should probably give this a try.

I know a rec who rolls a NEW Speed Demon. Horrible technique but it works for him!!!



I've been learning a forehand roller with a new Speed Demon. It's pretty easy - just set it down almost vertical, with plenty of speed and snap. Horrible technique? Maybe. But I managed 350' of straight-line distance on my first couple tries. Ex-baseball players, and anybody with a good overhand should probably give this a try.



I was refering to him BHRolling with it. I FHRoll with one too! He gets some freak distance you have to see to beleive!!

That is weird! Is he accurate?

Kid roc,
Shouldnt you almost always try to throw the slowest disc you can as long as you can reach the landing area or hole?. That way if you miss your mark, you miss by less than if you would've threw something faster!
While the sabre may be much slower than our 3 high speed drivers, I'm pretty sure the speed is bareley behind t-birds/eagles and the glide is close to the same.
I have thrown many distance style shots well over 500 with sabres and apaches. Most pros and top level advanced should be able to throw a golf shot with one 400.
Isnt that far enough to be considered a long range driver?
I admit there is room for us to develop between the sabres and High Speed Drivers ,but with there will always be a trade off between speed and control.
We hope to develop a new type of driver that heads in the direction of weight ditribution and lift over speed and penetration.

Tree wrapper,
what were the weights and colors of the discs?
Which stamps were on them?
The only flippy ones so far were yellow and 166 grams!
We had 4 proto runs of the H and I have yet to get out and test them. I am going tonight or tomorrrow.

They were yellow and white big G stamp one 166g and the rest were 175-174g and they did exactly like i said.They belong to a friend who peddles Gateway products and always lets me throw whatever he gets,and hes only sold me on a bag,and a Spirit that I throw rarely.I throw Wizards off and on but only for upshots and have since they came out.Never for putting.

Sabres and Apaches are great for fairway drivers. They are accurate and have decent distance.

That is great that you can throw them that far but you can't tell me that you consider them to be "distance drivers" when they are compared to a 1 iron in golf.

Kid,
For golf style shots your right, the sabres are meant to be more of a fairway driver and they are very accurate indeed.
During a distance contest though they can definately be used to achieve 500 plus distances, by throwing them 40-60 feet high.
There will always be a huge difference in what an experienced pro can do with a disc compared to those with less skill and knowledge of flight.
It is very unfortunate that new players do not use more control type drivers like the sabre/cyclone/Gazele type discs. The distances that can be achieved with discs like these is usually plenty good enough for most courses and really help to develop good technique.
While ball golfers experiment with new #1 wood big boy drivers it doesnt change their need or usuage for their 3 woods and long irons. Anyone who follows golf knows how rarely the big boy drivers can even be used.
But for the few times the big boy can be hit, it is sure nice to know you have the control still to go with the added distance you can get!!

Results from testing the Ilusion:
Yesterday I got out and had a chance to throw the Illusions.
Throwing the "S" for golf style shots I had several over 500 and the best was 528 feet.
They seem to work best when slightly beat or (at least flexed a bit in the hand) and when thrown with a touch of hyzer, 6-12 feet off the ground.
This trejectory had them landing very very straight at distances between 350 and 450 and it was Amazing to see the forward penetration on a slight left to right before coming back out of it.
When thrown 12-20 feet off the ground they needed to be released flat or with a touch of reverse.
This trajectory of 20 feet high has the nose a up little more and was nice and controllable for a tight little s-style shot. reversing them right out of the hand and nose up caused them to fade more at the end then the hyzer flip up shots that were lower!
When throw on a slight hyzer out to the right, never getting them over, they performed qiute well too and stayed in the air a long time without falling off for distances easily over 350( on a hyzer all the way)!
Like all High Speed Drivers should be, they are a little overstable when new, so the slightly broken in ones were better downwind and the fresh out of the box ones worked better into the wind.( I personally will probably stay with a Spirit for shots into the wind) unless the H and E Illusions can get a little more concave on the wing and add to the into the wind stability.

The Illsuion is a great compliment to the Spirit and SPeed demon in terms of stability. Players with less armspeed should have an easier time getting results in distance and accuracy because the nose is more blunt, the control is greater too, especially when thrown at lower speeds.

In case players dont know, Its the surface friction of our S or most matted style plastics that add control and keep discs on their line much longer.
Discs like our 3 high speed drivers that have a sharp nose radius, long wings and are flat, do not need the smooth surfaces of the high end polymers to get speed. They need the surface friction to add control!

I threw 4 different prototype runs of the "H' and didnt get to give them a full work out as I stayed concentrating on the S.
Today I will test the H more if it's not raining.

I finally threw one, WOW, I like it much better than my ORC, Which I thend to turn over about 40% of the time. I flew just as far or farther than the orc and stayed straighter and ended left. Definally a disc to try if you turn over your orc.

I have thrown a light and a heavy "S" Proto Illusion, and WOW!! They are the fastest disc I have ever seen, and go really far! I can hit 400' here and there, but today when I tested my protos, I put them over 400' consistantly, and even 500' once with a tailwind! Not as accurate as a Blaze, but no high speed driver is. This is definatly finding a spot in my bag! I can't wait to try the "H" and "E" Illusions Dave is sending me!!

My interest is definitely piqued by this thread and disc. I do like my Orcs, but I'm always willing to take on some more speed! When will these discs officially be out on the market? I can't even find a blurb about it on gdstour.com.
Is there a way that I could be hooked up with any right now, either protos or early runs or whatever you have over there? It would be much appreciated as I'm investigating more and more Gateway plastic. I started out with the Wizards, and I'm so impressed that it really is making me pursue Gateway and this disc sounds like money. Any way I can get some?
If so, please shoot me a PM or e-mail me at [email protected] Thanks!

Shane Check you e mail and then call the shop!
314 429 3472

Dave, will you have any of these for sale at the KCWO this weekend?

I was informed yesterday that the illusions i threw last week were not meant to be shipped out...if in fact that is true then my post earlier isnt correct.

Chase,
The ones we shipped to pat were some of the very first runs.
Not knowing exactly how the mold would respond, those 1st white runs were flat and a little slick the yellow ones were puffy on the wing making them flip some. Those with only 250 power would think they were awesome. they all had the small arch stamp. The white ones with the small G and a little dome are some of the purest distance discs Ive ever thrown.
I have an S totally dialed in and I'm working on the H still, the H are more overstable but start flying straight after only a little bit of flexing or a tree hit or 2,
We are waiting for the pdga approval before getting them up on the website.
If anyone wants any of the protos, see justin Bunnell at the KC wide open, he should have 50 or so in the S and a few H.
or call the shop 314 429 3472.

Those with only 250 power would think they were awesome.



Where do I sign up??? :D

Thats what pat said too.I throw a little over 250...with my putter!!! ha!!

The Illusion is now PDGA approved for tournament play!!!!

below is a copy of the specs:
Guru, Dave, and others,


Gateway recently submitted the Illusion for PDGA testing. This disc was found to comply with all PDGA requirements, so it has been added to the list of PDGA-approved discs (attached Excel file). The PDGA logo and "PDGA Approved" are now permitted for use by the manufacturer in association with this product. Test measurements are listed below.

Illusion
Certification No. 04-6
Outside diameter: 21.4 cm
Height: 1.5 cm
Rim depth: 1.1 cm
Rim thickness: 2.1 cm
Inside rim diameter: 17.2 cm
Flexibility rating: 10.77 kg
Rim configuration rating: 32.75
Maximum weight allowed: 177.6 g

The Illusion is now PDGA approved for tournament play!!!!

below is a copy of the specs:
Guru, Dave, and others,


Gateway recently submitted the Illusion for PDGA testing. This disc was found to comply with all PDGA requirements, so it has been added to the list of PDGA-approved discs (attached Excel file). The PDGA logo and "PDGA Approved" are now permitted for use by the manufacturer in association with this product. Test measurements are listed below.

Illusion
Certification No. 04-6
Outside diameter: 21.4 cm
Height: 1.5 cm
Rim depth: 1.1 cm
Rim thickness: 2.1 cm
Inside rim diameter: 17.2 cm
Flexibility rating: 10.77 kg
Rim configuration rating: 32.75
Maximum weight allowed: 177.6 g



Great news Dave!!

when is the illusion going on sale? I would like to pick one up.

when is the illusion going on sale? I would like to pick one up.



Contact either [email protected]
or
[email protected] to get yours!
Tell 'em Discin' Chris sent you!

It is very unfortunate that new players do not use more control type drivers like the sabre/cyclone/Gazele type discs. The distances that can be achieved with discs like these is usually plenty good enough for most courses and really help to develop good technique.
While ball golfers experiment with new #1 wood big boy drivers it doesnt change their need or usuage for their 3 woods and long irons. Anyone who follows golf knows how rarely the big boy drivers can even be used.
But for the few times the big boy can be hit, it is sure nice to know you have the control still to go with the added distance you can get!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Genius!! New players just want to find that one disc that goes the farthest. Like they are going to find this magical disc that gives you that extra forty or fifty feet without improving technique. Then again it sounds like ball golf as well. Gotta have the Biggest Big Birtha cus I can hit it farther than anything out. I hope people listen to your advice/knowledge.

Had the pleasure of being given an illusion this past weekend at the KC open to use from Justin Bunnell who also happend to tie for 7th, congrats on the great finish!

I have had several throws with it so far (169g H) and for me this is a great flik disc and a great wind driver. Although I probably wont buy more of these in the near future I will recommend this disc and gateway products in the future to players looking for something new.

At first the feel of the illusion was weird but it is quick to get used to and I can throw it pretty far with a flex shot. Keep pumping out more plastic gateway!

Mark,
If you get a chance to pick up an "S" with the small G stamp, you will find they hold the line at the end without fading as much as the H. The S has more surface friction from the Matte finish and helps keep the lines when decelerating.
You can flex either plastic back and forth in your hand a bit to help break one in faster.
A slightly broken in Illusion can fly very far right down the middle with a tight S while the fresh ones may require a little wider S. They also roll forever and are GREAT sidearm and tomahawk discs!
Thanks for the feedback!

i was thinking of getting some of these---but last time i got suckered by beleiving that the spirit was as fast as the speed demon but less stable. the ones i got were just like a speed demon. sure if you flex them or beat them up they become less stable, but is this illusion really less stable out of the box than those discs? will it fly long and straight like a teebird or dx beast, or does it need a big s-turn?

For me, it was fairly staight right out of the box, unlike the spirit. I love it, doen't turn over like my orc does. It is very fast too with a nice fade at the end.

The ones that shanest got outta the box were overstable mothers, but he said he put them over 400'; so with a little beating they should fly far. Any plans for an E-evolution? and how about the next long range driver to be called the Spectre to go with the Spirit and illusion.

The ones that shanest got outta the box were overstable mothers, but he said he put them over 400'; so with a little beating they should fly far. Any plans for an E-evolution? and how about the next long range driver to be called the Spectre to go with the Spirit and illusion.



I'm thinking part of it may just have been that mine are prototypes, not actual production ones.

The one's I am throwing have just the G stamp and are white, kinda like a grippy pro line plastic, they are labled as 1st runs or proto's. They feel nice

Just got back from more testing with the "H" Illusions.
It looks like the flatter softer ones are pretty beefy, but can get less overstable by some flexing back and forth.
The Domey "H" that are fairly firm, flip up pretty easy and the penetration forward is unbelievable before falling left at the end.
The biggest thing I notice about all illusions is that they do not start to lose velocity until about 90% of the flight( as long as they are not thrown nose up)
discs like Sabres/ blazes/ teebirds/leapords, start losing velocity at about 70% and rely on the dome to glide from there.
From point A to point B the Iluusion is the fastest disc out there today. This should help players who cannot create the armspeed get some extra D.
You do not have to throw them that hard to get them to fly fast. The angles and trajectory are the most important thing. Players with good techinque and very little turbulance who lack armspeed will catch up on distance with more powerful players.
Like all high speed drivers there is a need for some overstability to handle the speeds that can be achieved with high speed drivers or players who throw hard with bad technique and turbulance would flip them over within the 1st 50 feet.

In a comparison from H to S, H are generally more overstable while the S can break in a little quicker and even turn left to right or hold sublte hyzers longer.

We will start production on the H soon and then start protyping the Evolution Illusions next.

Dave, I have a question. Why is it that every disc that comes out is the so called "fastest disc ever made"? You said it about the SD, then the Spirit and now the illusion. I am not trying to bash you or start an arguement and others do it too. When the Beast came out it was called that, and the same with the Crush, Orc and Flash.

I just find it funny because how do we actually know that it is "THE FASTEST"? All I know is, the SD, Spirit, illusion, Orc and Flash are all really fast but it is hard for me to tell a difference in speed because they are all so close.

The SD and Beast came out about the same time and I liked the DX Beast a lot. I had some friends watch me throw the SD and DX Beast and I asked them which they thought was faster. About half said the SD and half said the Beast.

Danny,
Good point you make.
The scientific answer would be wind tunnel.
We actually just hooked up with a guy that will be doing some testing for us.
I wouldnt be afraid to test some of Innovas and Discraft's discs head to head against ours in the tunnel and publish the report. What I would really like to do is test the sabres, blazes and wizards head to head against their discs for control!!
But for testing in an open field or on the course, One thing that helps is the ability to identically repeat shots. Would you say you have the ability to repeat throws with the same trajectory, velocity and revolutions?
Not to rip on you personally but there is probably only a handful of people who can actually do this and a smaller amount of people who would even know how to judge the results.
For the past 6 years I have had many trips to the field to test discs. Trying to test for slight variations in (batches/blends) or (profiles of injection/runs), within the same mold can only be done if your release is as smooth as silk and you have several of the discs to throw.
If you had 20 orcs and 20 Illusions in front of you, I think you nay be able to tell which is faster after 3 or 4 trips back and forth.


It would really be nice to have an iron byron about now.

I've thrown Orcs, Beasts and Illusions, and I would say the Illusion is faster. Never thrown the Flash though. It just seems that the Illusion takes off out of your hand, and goes fast as hell for a long time. It gets too far for me to actually see its deceleration. It just seems to go until it has no more air room left. I would be interested to see how it would do in the hands of an expirienced distance thrower at the Big D!!!

The Illusion is definitely the fastest disc I have ever thrown, but I've never thrown a Speed Demon or Spirit. Out on the fields, it is noticably faster than an Orc and really holds it if you snap it enough to hold it. Dave hasn't said whether it has HyperLift or not, but I'm fairly certain it does as I threw it from fence to fence (about 350) of a local soccer field without getting it 6 or 7 feet off of the ground. I also got many, many fence to fence rollers that would have kept going had the fences not been there.
I personally don't like my H's. It's a shame too since I like how the plastic feels alot. However, it behaves entirely differently. It's slower out of the hand, doesn't hold its speed as long as the S's and dives off very hard to the left. It could be useful as a headwind driver and the like, but I'm just going to keep a new S for that. It might just be that mine are prototypes and therefore behave differently, but right now, it's all S's for me.
Never the less, this is still an awesome disc that's sure to stay in my bag.

Yeah I've never liked pure H discs either. S/H is money though!! Especially in Wizards!!!

Out of those High speed drivers, These are the orders of speed that ive found so far...

Beast
Crush
Orc
(flash)
Speed Demon
Spirit
(illusion)

The discs in perenthesis are discs I haven't thrown yet. The Orc is faster than the E and H Speed demons, but the S Speed Demon is much faster. The E Spirit is about as fast as the S Speed Demon, so the S Spirit must be extremely fast! I don't know how the Illusion and Spirit compare, because people are probably comparing the E Spirit to the S Illusion.

I'm assuming the Orc and Flash are basically the same disc.

The H/E blend Spirits that I got out in Bowling Green were sweet. A little flexing and this disc became super sweet. The latest runs of the spirit are far less overstable compared to the first runs that I have. I just got a couple of the H Illusions a couple of days ago and am thinking about taking them to the rugby field behind my house and giving them a test run. I love the feel of this H plastic. It is super grippy. Was there a change in the H plastic between the last run of the spirit and the first runs of the Illusion? Because they feel totally different. Gotta give Dave some props...and I can't wait for the Odyssey or Element to come out...is that what you are still going to be calling the new midrange that you are coming out with???

The H/E blend Spirits that I got out in Bowling Green were sweet. A little flexing and this disc became super sweet. The latest runs of the spirit are far less overstable compared to the first runs that I have. I just got a couple of the H Illusions a couple of days ago and am thinking about taking them to the rugby field behind my house and giving them a test run. I love the feel of this H plastic. It is super grippy. Was there a change in the H plastic between the last run of the spirit and the first runs of the Illusion? Because they feel totally different. Gotta give Dave some props...and I can't wait for the Odyssey or Element to come out...is that what you are still going to be calling the new midrange that you are coming out with???



As far as I know, thats what Dave is planning on calling it.(Element)

I still think it should be called the "Solution"...isn't that a sweet name for mirdange?!

"We have a firing SOLUTION"

I still think it should be called the "Solution"...isn't that a sweet name for mirdange?!

"We have a firing SOLUTION"

dude thats the awesomeerist name for a disc ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111one

I still think it should be called the "Solution"...isn't that a sweet name for mirdange?!

"We have a firing SOLUTION"



Wasn't that the proposed name for the disc thats a cross between a Sabre and an Illusion? (Sabre+Illusion=Silution=Solution)???

I wonder if some players would like to see an Illusion type disc from Gateway with a shorter wingspan ?? closer to a valk or beast or even a teebirds wing length.
The trend seems to be going the other way though.
Since we made the speed demon/spirit it seems innova and discraft both are making discs with longer and longer wings.
None yet are as long as ours but I'm sure they will even be longer pretty soon.
The longer wings help create more gyroscopic spin and also more room for air to rest on in the glide part of the flight.
I wasnt that fond of the longer wings at first but now the shorter wingspans seem funky sometimes.
Whats your thoughts on this?

For me, I am not as consistant on my releases if I have discs in my bag that have different wing sizes. I had to take the Orc out of my bag because I never knew how it would come off my hand.

I would love to see more small wing discs out there.

Which plastic of the illusion is the most understable. I want to try one that is supposed to go straight or slightly turnover.

Thanks.

For me, I am not as consistant on my releases if I have discs in my bag that have different wing sizes. I had to take the Orc out of my bag because I never knew how it would come off my hand.

I would love to see more small wing discs out there.



Dang, I could have typed the exact same post. Maybe it has something to do with the name ;)

Which plastic of the illusion is the most understable. I want to try one that is supposed to go straight or slightly turnover.

Thanks.



Probably the S because it will eventually break in!

I agree about the small wing. So far, the long wing discs have not beat the Valk. I think Gateway is planning on making a disc to fit in the slot between the illusion and the sabre. I just hope they put out the element before they put out another driver. I would hate to see them just enter the driver race and forget a good straight slow midrange.

I just got my 157 "S" Illusion yesterday and like it a lot so far. It holds a real straight line, is very fast but still hooks more at the end than I'd like. Guess I'll just have to bounce it off the willow tree a few times.Not near the fade of the Spirit and S.D. Mine is white.

The illusions wing is huge, and the h is more overstable than a brand new champ fb. Threw a 172 S and found it to be too overstable for me, maybe if it breaks in. Personally I cant believe how wide the wing is but it is fast. Cant wait to break this in a little more and try rollers.

The illusions wing is huge, and the h is more overstable than a brand new champ fb. Threw a 172 S and found it to be too overstable for me, maybe if it breaks in. Personally I cant believe how wide the wing is but it is fast. Cant wait to break this in a little more and try rollers.



My "S" Illusions are very straight, slightly turnover at high speeds brand new. I'm very curious to why they are overstable for you. I have yet to throw my "H" Illusion, but its supposed to be pretty straight too, just with a little more hyzer at the end.

Willie,
You may want to try throwing them a little lower or more nose down. If that doesnt help flex them a bit back and forth in your hand(1"-2" back and forth a few times).
There is a lot of lift in the illusion which really helps add Distance on straightline flat drives, especially after 350' or so. Once you get one tuned to match your velocity It will go as far as any disc you have.
The most productive way to throw it for big distance is with a slight hyzer release, popping it up and making it ride, not jerked over right out of the hand.

Willie,
You may want to try throwing them a little lower or more nose down. If that doesnt help flex them a bit back and forth in your hand(1"-2" back and forth a few times).
There is a lot of lift in the illusion which really helps add Distance on straightline flat drives, especially after 350' or so. Once you get one tuned to match your velocity It will go as far as any disc you have.
The most productive way to throw it for big distance is with a slight hyzer release, popping it up and making it ride, not jerked over right out of the hand.



I second that. If you try and turn them over, they just kinda shank, and roll a bit. (Really good if you have one broken in I might add!!)

But...If you realease with a slight hyzer, about shoulder height, the thing goes forever, and you never really see the deceleration, it just kinda runs out of space to fly. The thing is sweet! My previous best air shot (REAL GOLF SHOTS, not just D) was about 420' with an "E" Spirit. I put my "S" Illusion about 40' past a placement thats about 415'!!! I actually had to jump put, coming back at it! Not just a fluke either, I've been puting this thing WAAAY out there! I'm really anxious to beat one up for rollers, and to get my hands on an "H" to compare/contrast!!

Ordered a couple illusions yesterday. Can't wait to try it.

DiscinDeadHead-

Here is an idea. You do not need to quote someone everytime you post!! Say what you want to say and move on.


Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocain!!!!
Smitty

DiscinDeadHead-

Here is an idea. You do not need to quote someone everytime you post!! Say what you want to say and move on.


Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocain!!!!
Smitty



Like this?

I only do so, to reinerate what they said, or to have their words right there when I am refering to them. I don't see the problem with it. I've too noticed I quote a bit, but for reasons.

Who's it hurting anyways?

BTW, is this the same Smitty that was in StarCity this last week?

If so, good shooting!
You got me by two strokes, even though I'm not an Open player. Did you end up cashing?

DDH-
I was at the Starcity, I don't know if I beat you by 2 storkes. No I did not cash, I had a couple of penalty strokes that cost me a chance to play on the lead card, and probably $100 also. I don't think that it probably "hurts" anything if you quote everytime that you post. I just think that it is annoying. If something is important to you post, copy that part of the post.

Smitty

Its much easier to press the quote link!
I got you point though.

I tried the illusion yesterday. Too overstable to go straight for me. It flies like a Firebird. Yeah, yeah. I know. Beat it up. Bend it.

I wish it flew straight, right out of the box. It did get out there fast, I just never got a good throw with it. Oh well.

Curious, what plastic did you throw?
B/C the "H" Illusions are still pretty beefy, while the "S" are straight/flippy out of the box.

S

What stamp is on it? What color?

One is blue. One is red. No stamp on either.

I think those are protos/first runs/pre-regular run, and I think they were too overstable, so Dave made adjustments. You'd have to ask him though. I've only thrown white ones, with just small "G" logos. They are sweet!

lol

I have two illusions. One S that is browny red and an H that is a yellow colour. Both discs have a basket stamp on them. They are both really really really overstable. Much more so than an orc or firebird. Maybe more than a monster even. They are faster than an orc or flash (imho) but so overstable that they are pretty much useless for me.

I have a 161, yes 161, first run illusion with the arch stamp. Dave brought them to Wisconsin Jrs and was kind enough to give me one. This thing is overstable mean, but extremely fast, maybe sometime it'll be the money driver so I'm going to hang onto it.. figure I'll play disc golf a few more years :D

Kid,
For years players got rocs and beat them up to get them to fly straight or turn. Threw them into trees, rolled them, bounced them around in the dryer.
i'm not talking amateurs players here, top pros!
Maybe they were onto something 14 years ago.
I know there are some Illusions that are more overstable than others just like all manufacturers high speed drivers.
I think the valks have been all over the place from run to run and still are if I'm not mistaken.
My 15 year old nephew has his Illusion flippin up and flying stable like YOUR best straight roc.
Yeah it took him a few rounds to break it in, but his D went from barely 300 to 340 plus!
Its well worth the time spent to get one broken in.

How long do discs stay brand new with the same flight characteristics? ( not counting original CE)
How long do they stay in the broken in mode?

Its seems like it would be much better to have a broken in disc fly the way you want instead of constantly buying a NEW disc , for the new disc flight.

Not picking on you personally it but some discs like wine become better with age :)

Just a thought since my 11 disc line-up only has 1 brand new fresh disc. ( A translucent Spirit for into the wind reverse right out of the hand)

I have some Gateway Discs on eBay. Illusions, Sabres, and Wizards.

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=y2alstott&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=50

I threw a blank white illusion and thought it was SUPER fast. I would maybe even throw it if the rim was a little wider.

Been throwing a S plastic 170 driver (orange w/"illusion" stamp) and it kicks [*****]. Not beat enough yet to fly totally straight on a backhand for me, but this may quite possibly be the best sidearm disc on the market. SO fast. Mmmm. Illusions...

Just thought you would like to know something cool.
Dave has been working on a candy like plastic (Evolution) thats currently only available on XOut Spirits, but will eventually be used for Speed Demons, Spirits, Illusions, and Demons!
I just drooled when I read Candy Demon, and Candy Illusion!!

I have 3 of those Xout Spirits. That plastic is old news, player. :eek: It isn't CE, but it's **** close. Scuffs a little easier.

I have that plastic in a SD and a Sabre.

I'm not saying that its new or anything. I've just gotten really attatched to certain molds, and now when available in a candy like plastic, that would make my day/week/month/year!

just got 2 white 170 s. they have an almost completely flat top and the bottom of the wing is almost convex. fastest disc ever, but no glide. will beat it up overtime and see if that changes and how durable it is. will fly straight and then fade hard if i give it all i got. stiffer than any disc i have seen. great grip! overstable now. how do the other plastics compare

just got 2 white 170 s. they have an almost completely flat top and the bottom of the wing is almost convex. fastest disc ever, but no glide. will beat it up overtime and see if that changes and how durable it is. will fly straight and then fade hard if i give it all i got. stiffer than any disc i have seen. great grip! overstable now. how do the other plastics compare. the shape looks like a step towards the shape of the quarter k

I just got one of those candy Spirits, and it is sweet! Flies straighter much longer than my regular E-Spirit. It's still overstable, but its useful overstable. Any chance we'll be seeing an 'E'llusion in this plastic any time soon?

I'd imagine that he's working on it! Yeah, that plastic is very VERY durable, and still very grippy. Dries off better than other candy IMO. Nice!

threw a 149 s, a 170 s, and a 168 h illusion for a while yesterday. 170s was overstable, 149s was superfast and still fairly beefy, but one of the funnest discs i have yet to throw. both were completely flattopped, and had a tremendous fade at the end. now the h is a different story. the profile is much different than the s. it has a nice dome to it, and the bottom half is flatter and lower profile. put the s and h next to each other on a table and look at their profile and see how different they are. the h is pretty badas-. thrown hard with a little hyzer, it will flip to a slight turn and go, go, go, before a hard fade back at the end. not as hard as the s though. this one could actually work as a super-long, open field distance driver. i got throws that rivaled my dx beast distance [though the dx beast is straight] with a hard, high turnover that came back at the very end. i love the feel of this mold in this plastic. superfast. i will keep it in the bag for a while and see what happens. hey gateway--when can we expect more of these to be avaliable? i want a 160ish.

Word has it David is going to start making larger runs of "H" Illusions. Which makes me very happy! Its likely my longest disc when throw correctly....I took it out of the bag since I only had 2, but if he is going to make larger runs...its will find its way back into my bag!

David made comments a while ago, that you just confirmed:
The Spirit is best in "E", and the Illusion is best in "H".

I bought a Spirti in E and an Illusion in H and both are rather more overstable than I would like in a disc to be useful. FWIW I max out about 385' The E is definitely a sweet plastic though. The Illusion has potential to be a really long disc when slightly seasoned, but the rim is so thin (like a Flick) I have a tough time gripping it. I cannot imagine how overstable a Speed Demon is, seeing how piglike my E Spirit is.

I bought a Spirti in E and an Illusion in H and both are rather more overstable than I would like in a disc to be useful. FWIW I max out about 385' The E is definitely a sweet plastic though. The Illusion has potential to be a really long disc when slightly seasoned, but the rim is so thin (like a Flick) I have a tough time gripping it. I cannot imagine how overstable a Speed Demon is, seeing how piglike my E Spirit is.



Was is "CE" (Clear Evolution)?

Not clear. Its actually opoque snot colored. Like a snot-colored greenish-yellowish-brown. Quite possibly the ugliest color plastic I have ever seen.

Not clear. Its actually opoque snot colored. Like a snot-colored greenish-yellowish-brown. Quite possibly the ugliest color plastic I have ever seen.



Point being...it was candy though right? If so, those are one sweet discs!

Not clear. Its actually opoque snot colored. Like a snot-colored greenish-yellowish-brown. Quite possibly the ugliest color plastic I have ever seen.



Point being...it was candy though right? If so, those are one sweet discs!



"Those are one sweet discs???" hmmmmm

Sweet plastic for sure, but the spirit is only usefull to me as a utility disc for hard right turns (rhbh) and left turns (rhfh). I find I usually use a monster or firebird for this as their overstability is a little more manageable. Or for less drastic hyzers I will use a new crush or tsunami. For straight long drives I throw beasts or orcs. The Illusion is similar to a beast or orc, maybe a touch more overstable than a new champion orc. I drive with a slight hyzer flip and I can't get the Illusion to flip up like a low 170g champ beast. The first time I threw the spirit I threw with a slight hyzer and it laughed at my attempt to get it to flip up. For any distance it must be thrown with an extreme annhyzer angle, something I prefer not to do because I feel I have a lot less control. The biggest drawback to me of the Illusion is the thin rim. Same reason I can't throw my flick backhand, I just can't grip it comfortably.

Not clear. Its actually opoque snot colored. Like a snot-colored greenish-yellowish-brown. Quite possibly the ugliest color plastic I have ever seen.



Point being...it was candy though right? If so, those are one sweet discs!



"Those are one sweet discs???" hmmmmm



Yeah Yeah, mock the kid posting between classes.

Any updates on the Illusion now that you guys have had a chance to break them for a few months? I'm very intrigued by the Gateway line-up...

I'm finally starting to figure out this whole wide rimmed disc deal. I've been using the Illusion alot to try to figure them out and it's working great! Up till now I've been throwing short-rimmed drivers but my distance was maxing out so I switched. Now that I'm getting used to the Illusion I feel like I have alot moe distance potential. Great disc too!

I got a 176g S Illusion in a player's pack and I've been finding that it's the longest disc in my bag by 10'-20' (compared to a 172g Champion Viking and 168g DX Beast) but I still feel like I have more control with the Viking. I can throw the Viking on a great hyzer flip line but I have to release the Illusion more flat to get it to end up where I want it. That does make it great for s-shots, though. I did use it at the tournament that i got it at when it was brand new and it worked pretty well into the wind. I was the only one on my card both rounds who didn't turn their disc over on the heavy-headwind hole. It has been getting a bit better as it's breaking in, but I'd like to try a ligher version and the H version, too.

For a reference, I throw somewhere in the 370' range, give or take. I feel most comfortable throwing with a hyzer, but if I was more comfortable throwing more flat, I think I'd prefer the Illusion I have over the Viking.

anyone know if there is an H/E Illusion out?

I find that the S Illusion is way understable compared to the E Illusion. It is like two completely different discs. What it up with that?

I haven't seen that my new S Illusions were overstable but beat in nice and tyhe h/e Illusion I had was pretty straight then i lost it. :confused: :confused:

anyone know if there is an H/E Illusion out?




I don't know if they are offical, but I got an illusion from a place online that had illusions stamped for a tourny. I swear they have to be a blend of somthing, and I don't think it's an s/h blend either. Great disc but I dont think they are in mass production.

I also greatly enjoy my S illusions as well. I have beat on that is PERFECT for turnovers and S shots. I couldn't do #6 at Dolese without it.