I throw both Rocs and Comets, and recently ive been flipping them both over unless i swoop when i throw them. Does anyone have any idea what im doing wrong?

I throw both Rocs and Comets, and recently ive been flipping them both over unless i swoop when i throw them. Does anyone have any idea what im doing wrong?



Try throwing something a little more overstable.

try a Z wasp or a champ shark.......midranges, unless you are trying to turn them over, should not flip

I throw both Rocs and Comets, and recently ive been flipping them both over unless i swoop when i throw them. Does anyone have any idea what im doing wrong?



I don't know anything about the Comet but the Roc shouldn't be flippy like that. Its a very stable mid-range. How beat up are those discs? If they are really old and hacked up they'll tend to become more and more understable. Maybe that's it? Maybe you release with too much anhyser angle and don't realize it?

Try aiming to the right of the pin and placing some hyzer angle on it and make the disc turn to the left towards the pin. Or try approaching with your putter. I have a KC Pro Aviar that is great for this. Dunno but I hope this helps.

Try the new Super Roc. from Zonedriven.com
much more stable.

I would guess that u are talking about a dx plastic Roc.
It may be harder in the beginning, but u will thank me later if you start using a candy disc for midrange. I use a couple of Candy Spiders for all midrange. They keep their original flight characteristics for much longer.

I totally disagree. But it is all a matter of preference. I only throw regular plastic for mids and putters because it is a much more consistant grip.

I think that this guy is having problems with how he throws a disc, not which discs he is throwing. I have no idea what the problem is because he didn't elaborate too much but with the proper throw Comets should go really straight and Rocs should turn left. (RHBH). Unless they are really beat up.

Here are a few things that I have found out in my time. I used to struggle and flip over rocs and wasps too. I have worked everything out and now I feel I have nearly perfected my mid-range throw and I never have an unclean release.

1. Unclean release is the main source of turning over mid-ranges. The least bit of flutter on these discs will cause them to turn over a lot and you will never be consistant. You can get away with an unclean release w/ drivers, but not midranges.

2. I always **** my wrist when throwing mid-ranges. This creates a lot of spin and keeps them from turning over on longer shots. That really helped my shot big time.

3. Loosen up your grip on mid-ranges. If you grip the rim too tight, it can cause an unclean release.

4. Make sure you are not turning over your wrist. I always release my mid-ranges flat (slight s-curves) or with hyzer (flatten out and fly straight to slight hyzer)

I am not an expert at this, but I have a long time perfecting throwing my mid-ranges and it has really paid off. I am self taught, so some of the things I said could be somewhat wrong. These are the things I do though to throw my mid-ranges accurately w/o turning them over.

I forgot to say im throwing 10x and 03 rocs both max weight and D and old school Ron Russel Comets.

There are no D Comets. Do you mean X?

i guess that i just don't have trouble with my grip concerning candy plastic because every driver I throw is candy or Champion plastic.....

And it is really hard to make a CE Roc or Z-Wasp go understable. it would take forever to beat it up. So, gotta have that DX to "season." :)

Sweet Midrange, definition: Black X-Wasps

I totally disagree. But it is all a matter of preference. I only throw regular plastic for mids and putters because it is a much more consistant grip.

I think that this guy is having problems with how he throws a disc, not which discs he is throwing. I have no idea what the problem is because he didn't elaborate too much but with the proper throw Comets should go really straight and Rocs should turn left. (RHBH). Unless they are really beat up.



I agree with Kid_Roc on this. When I learned how to throw I went through a period where all my midranges were hugely understable. I flipped almost everything. It happened when I started throwing harder trying to get more distance. As I learned I realized that I was doing two things wrong. First, I was overthrowing. I was cartwheeling that disc like it was in orbit around my body. The second thing builds directly out of the first; I was getting no snap, and hence, no torque or rotation on my discs. You only get good snap if you take something off of the start of your throw and put it into your hit.

I'd be willing to bet a donut that if someone watched you throw they would tell you that you're getting no snap on your disc at your hit and that the reason is that your throwing style is off. In other words, you're putting a lot of power into your throw without proper technique.

I used to flip Rocs like no tomorrow, but now they're the only midrange I throw and I use them for every shot, just different levels of wear. I think you're trying to overpower them. Midranges are more about snap for spin than whipping the arm. But once you get the snap motion down, it's very rewarding as most midranges (Rocs are great examples) are very neutral and will go dead straight, hyzer, or go understable.

Concerning plastic: I too prefer DX to candy in drivers. I have two DX and one CE ('04) Roc and I honestly don't like the CE at all. It is really overstable and I just can't get a good grip on it. It always slips out and heads for the ground. The DX's are perfect discs in my opinion. They are more durable and almost feel like Elite-X plastic to me, but they do age and become new discs. KC Pro are still good to have for big hyzers and low ceilings and are versatile as well, but I still love my max weight DX Rocs.

Could some one explain the proper technique for throwing a midrange to me, or post a vid please?

How to throw a midrange disc or how to throw an approach shot? These can be completely different concepts given the fact that sometimes its good to approach with a driver and sometimes its good to drive with a midrange.

You've posed a very vague question. Which part of the throw are you interested in?

As for vids go to www.discgolfreview.com (http://www.discgolfreview.com) and click the "Throwing Analysis" link to see some really great video with step by step instruction. This site REALLY helped my game!

Could some one explain the proper technique for throwing a midrange to me, or post a vid please?



On this thread about three pages back is a topic called Throwing Resources where I asked people to place links to information on throwing. Start there. Especially look at the summary of all the comments made by Dave D. on throwing for distance (I think the post above has a link to a site that has a summary). He has analyzed the throw for years now and has made that data available. All the comments are under the topic throwing for distance but the summarized version is easier to read. Also, look carefully at Theo Pozzy's video drive study, there are slow motion vids of some of the top throwers where you can see exactly how they throw. This information all pertains to throwing drivers but you will find that Dave's stuff will really pay for your midrange, also if you throw a midrange like a driver, with proper snap, it will go a long ways and very straight (some guys use Rocs as their primary driver).

For me the key was to focus on the hit, which starts about halfway into your throw. It is the motion of the forearm hinging at the elbow to snap the disc out of your hand. It places a huge amount of torque on this disc, which is the real secret to distance and accuracy. One thing to remember is not to get caught up in trying to put torque on the disc. Proper technique will naturally impart torque (this will be very evident when you read Dave's stuff). I found that I read Dave's stuff, went out and made some improvement; I read it again and made more improvement; I read it again etc. It took me a year to really get it down and I am still incorperating stuff from his comments. Have patience, and in the end it will really pay.

Finally, if you have a local club with a web site post a request for a more advanced player to spend a couple of hours with you to give you advice. The price is cheap (usually free but I always provide a 6 pack of some beverage) and it will help loads.

Could some one explain the proper technique for throwing a midrange to me, or post a vid please?



just about everything covering midrange technique is covered here (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=67422&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1). it is a bit extensive, but well worth digging thru. i know for sure the original poster got his question answered

It could just be your grip. I was having the same problem when I was throwing ROC's. I found that the problem was my grip. My throw was fine. Once I changed my grip, I could throw them on about any line for about 270' or so.

Check out some of these grips (http://www.geocities.com/discgraham/Grips.html), and experiment! You may find yourself shooting better in all situations!

(p.s. yeah thats me. don't steal my phone number of the bottom of the disc. The disc is a 167 S/H Wizard.

That link didn't work.

works now :cool:

I throw both Rocs and Comets, and recently ive been flipping them both over unless i swoop when i throw them. Does anyone have any idea what im doing wrong?



Do they flutter?

you may try easing up on your grip. Throwing with the same grip as when you drive will make your mids flutter and flip. It takes a while to get used to it but its worth it!

I think it is different for different people. I throw the same (hard as hell) grip for all throws and it works.

But I understand your point.

I just recently stopped doing this with my mid-ranges

It wasn't my grip at all.. I just shortened my reach-back and focused on more snap.

I noticed Rocs don't handle headwind too well. Maybe mine are too beat... but I threw my NEW 177 KC Pro Roc into a headwind today and the thing burned like a Stingray.. :confused:

in my opinion, the most common cause of people turning over midrange/approach discs is that they exceed a disc's critical velocity for a given # of RPM's and initial nose angle. every disc has a cruise speed range/RPM ratio for a "stable" flight.

as for the easy answer on the factors contributing to midrange turnover problems:
1) too nose down.
2) not enough spin.
3) too much speed.

to get overly technical:
for example, lets say player John Doe throws midrange disc X with 24 RPM's and with his angle of release, disc X will fly stable when its velocity is between 28 and 34 MPH. lets say that with his standard driving motion, JD can generate 62 MPH of initial velocity on a 175g disc. under this school of thought, if JD throws disc X as he would high speed driver Y, disc X is gonna flip (and possibly roll) as 62 > 34.

JD has several choices to "fix" this (will probably require a combination of these):
1) increase RPM's.
2) decrease "pre-flip" velocity.
3) increase hyzer angle.

#1 is usually adjusted through grip and release changes or by throwing with more snap.
#2 can be done in multiple ways:
a) adjust the nose angle to increase the drag coefficient on the disc, causing a greater slowing effect during the first 1/3 of the flight and with sufficient force, the disc will "flip" to a stable nose flat/down orientation and fly at cruise speed.
b) don't throw as hard.
c) use a less powerful grip.

hope this helps

Well put, Blake. :)