I've heard Dave D. talk about hyperspin. I think I've experienced this a couple of times. Once with a Roc and once with a Valk. It looks like the disc comes out normal, THEN about 30 feet out the disc seems to dial in and accelerate.

Has anyone else experienced this? Can you explain it?

But you only get to use the hyperspin button once per round.

...and it sucks when you reappear and blow up. :(

chocolate makes me hyperspin

I experience this every time I throw an Orc.

I have two hyperspace buttons in my living room.

1 FOR THE FRIDGE? & 1 FOR THE HEAD??? /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

FULL SAIL GIVE'Z ME HYPERSPIN :cool:

It looks like the disc comes out normal, THEN about 30 feet out the disc seems to dial in and accelerate.

Has anyone else experienced this? Can you explain it?



I suspect that what you are observing may well be caused by a wind gust of just-right angle and velocity. This can really give a disc a boost and make it appear to take off with extra power. (Or, if the angle is not so optimal, it can make the darn thing crash and burn, alas...)

No silly, one on each side of my Stargate machine.

Traveling through hyperspin ain't like dusting crops, boy.

Could be what I've heard people call the "air bounce" At time of release, Is the disc at shoulder level, or closer to the hip? The latter produces the "air bounce". The air bounce as I know it happens this way. Disc is released low, takes a slight downward angle, then 20-30 feet away takes a dramatic lift, (disc is thrown nose slightly up). Good luck.

I have always considered an air bounce as an act of the wind, not the golfer. A sudden gust can create an air bounce, lifting the disc and giving it increased distance.

Airbounces can be created very easily and don't require any wind. I've been able to do it since I was about 10 years old. I read about it in a book on frisbees.

Air bounces are very useful for short ultimate throws where you need to get it under the marker's arm, but don't feel like bending and extending properly.

Hmmmm. Now that I think about it ... it could have been an air bounce. I can bounce a lid no prob, but never really do it intentionally with a golf disc.

At the time I did it with my Roc, I was in awe .... like 'cool! did you see that?' Mind you ... it could've been something else that impaired my perception...

SO, is there such a thing as Hyperspin? Anyone else heard Dave D. refer to it?

A kid on my block had a Hyperspin. It made me dizzy.

Oh wait... that was a 'Sit-and-Spin"

This may be a reverse air-bounce. Stokley, and I'm sure there's others, throws a distance shot with the nose down, but he's throwing it up and out as well. It sure looks like the disc accelerates with afterburner style! Y'all have seen how a disc appears to gain spin out of the hand...and I think what's happening here is the combo of the reverse airbounce coupled with the optical illusion of spin increasement! (Not sure if that's a word, but it logically fits!)

We created a new sport with a sit&spin when I was a kid. We broke the top off of the sit&spin and put the top in the middle of the street upside down. We would get on our bikes and accelerate and then hit the rear brake on top of the top and see how far we could slide. We called the game "hospitalization" or "road rash". There were many neighborhood injuries. After we got good at it, we started doing it on frozen ponds. No one ever accused me of being smart.

Stokley, and I'm sure there's others, throws a distance shot with the nose down, but he's throwing it up and out as well. It sure looks like the disc accelerates with afterburner style! Y'all have seen how a disc appears to gain spin out of the hand...and I think what's happening here is the combo of the reverse airbounce coupled with the optical illusion of spin increasement!



Circle2 that's exactly what I saw ... good explanation. I'm going to try recreate it... THANKS!

I was able to consistently create hyperspin today. It seems to come from two places at once. First an open wrist rip position. Second, a real strong rip. I was working on improving my drive and I noticed I was doing a few things wrong. When I corrected them...voila, hyperspin and throws over 450. The downside is that previously slightly unstable discs turn over much more due to the added speed and slightly lower nose position. The open wrist position also brought the nose down for a more efficient glide, more retained speed, and less overstability.

see, i thought you could normally throw well over 450 anyways?

Only on a very good day could I throw over 450. With the proper techique, which produced hyperspin as a result, the throws were averaging 450, instead of my usual 410 or so.

Dave, when you talk about an open wrist position, do you still have the wrist tilted slightly downward (if you held your forearm parallel to the ground would your hand be pointing down?)

Dan, yes the disc is aligned with your forearm. In order to do this, your wrist must be pointed down. Your wrist can open up to almost 45 degrees from straight in this position. The open wrist rip seems to help both acceleration and nose down.

I'm confused with this language: " Your wrist can open up to almost 45 degrees from straight in this position "

Are you describing a rotation (mainly forearm) like opening a door where you would be looking at the underside of the wrist? or is it the other rotation where you would be looking at the top of the wrist? or is this 45% refer to something else?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Dave means this: http://biphome.spray.se/discgolfer/vinkel.jpg [credit swepeter for the link]

James the wagging rotation with the thumb on top, thumbnail pointed straight up through the motion just like it should durning a throw. Hand bascally in handshake position wrist down and waving back and forth.

??? You mean opening the wrist from inside to outside, not top to bottom ?

palm would be vertical from pinkie side to thumbside bottom to top, just like shaking hands. Open is to opposite side of palm. Extended, as opposed to flexed. I have seen many people throw from extreme flex to just past extended. I am saying change that to starting from just a little flexed, to fully extended, which is about 45 degrees past neutral (straight). Some people's wrist may stop before 45 degrees with the downward tilt. Some may only get about 30 degrees past neutral. In that case, open as far as you can.

I replied to this, but it didn't work I guess. yes inside out or extended from flexed.

I was able to consistently create hyperspin today. It seems to come from two places at once. First an open wrist rip position. Second, a real strong rip. I was working on improving my drive and I noticed I was doing a few things wrong. When I corrected them...voila, hyperspin and throws over 450. The downside is that previously slightly unstable discs turn over much more due to the added speed and slightly lower nose position. The open wrist position also brought the nose down for a more efficient glide, more retained speed, and less overstability.



This must be why my Firebirds keep acting like Starfires! :eek:

Dave, to use the disc position in reference to your arm is this what you're talking about?

Wrist Flexed = center of disc almost perpendicular to the wrist
Wrist neutral = center of disc almost perpendicular to thumbnail
Wrist Extended = center of disc beyond end of hand

I guess it could also depend on the grip, whether or not the disc is close to the palm of the hand or not...

Donnie, I would agree with you references to wrist position, but the open wrist would have the center of the disc not only beyond the hand, but in line with the forearm. You should be able to sight right down your arm and see the center of the disc's rim. You should not be able to see the flight plate as the disc should be at such an angle to make the bottom of the disc visible, but not the top if your arm is outstretched. You should have to bend your elbow to see the flight plate if the disc is oriented properly.

Dave,
Should you be able to see the "Top of the Hand/the Back of the Hand". While fully extended looking down your arm at the Disc? Thanx for your time in regard's to this matter. :D

Yes, at least by the index and middle knuckle.

It finally stopped raining here and I got a chance to go out to throw... W :eek: W!!! The open wrist grip feels so strong and the disc FLIES outta the hand. Gotta find a bigger practice field (not a bad problem to have! /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif ) Judging from my raw fingerpads the disc is popping off all my fingers at once, just to compare notes. Any idea where the added power comes from? Is it because the forearm muscles are relaxed prior to the throw and are in the best position to exert maximum grip?

One problem: :confused: With this grip I'm having trouble putting enough hyzer on my TLs to keep em straight... and its worse with wide rim discs (Orc/Beast) I've tried leaning over more, starting the arm whip lower -- any suggestions?

I was flipping discs more too, but not as much as you seem to be. Some of your flip may be due to off axis torque (flutter). That could really affect your shots at the beginning of the flight. The nose down extra speed factor would affect the entire flight. If most of the flip is at the beginning, I would look to your grip and angle of release. You may have too much grip on your lock fingers (baby and ring) too.

The disc is coming off my middle finger rather than the index. Its hard to see any flutter with my follow thru (I end up facing way right after the throw) but when they turn over, they really turn over. I'd estimate they keep the anhyzer line to around 300+ ft. Only the Monster or a really really high shot ever comes back. I think the grip is forcing me to get my arm up and throw anhyzer.

I see. Well, if you are throwing anhyzer, you will have to throw overstable stuff like the Monster or Firebird. Better to keep your elbow up and drop your hand a little and try to keep some hyzer on release because you will pull most everthing over and that is a good thing for distance.

I finally got a chance today to try this and it did seem to help a LOT. Hard to tell at first, because there was a lot of wind, but the disc did seem to 'rip' off my fingertips more. The first few times I had trouble with my x-step, most likely because I was thinking too much about hand position (I guess it's a good thing I wasn't chewing gum too), but once I got used to it and found a comfortable pre-run up arm position it smoothed out more. It did seem to be harder to reach back as much as I used to, but that could just be my perception. Discs definitely flew further, and got out there faster than normal, with more late turn then I normally get. The only downside were the couple of times I threw major league worm burners, but I think that was just an off-balance release from lousy timing.

Thanks again, Dave!

I'm still having trouble visualizing the wrist position from the descriptions given (I'm dense I guess ;)). I get the 'wrist down' position (so disc is in line with forearm), but not the open wrist position. Looking down at my arm (for RHBH) should my wrist be bent toward the right 45 degrees? And if so, is this maintained throughout the throwing motion? Where does the snap come from?

Maybe someone with a digital camera could post a few pics of the proper grip and wrist positions.

Thanks!

Luke

I'm usually confused with this terminology also. However, my sense from the descriptions given is that wrist nuetral is simply the hand in line with the forearm. Lift your forearm up and imagine you are reading a phone number on your palm and the palm is inline with the forearm. That is neutral.

Open and closed are the rotation from neutral. The rotation is the one you would use if you were going to backslap someone.

I think Dave is saying that instead of the waggle back before stopping at the near neutral position, he is starting near neutral and stopping the wrist near the position you would be at impact in a backslap.

I could easily be wrong and may not have helped translate the concept at all, but hopefully this helped.

yes, your wrist should be bent to the right 45 degrees approximately at the rip. Before that, it should wag back about straight or slighltly bent back depending on what is most powerful for you.

After tossing my Rocs around for a bit, I found that I was gripping the rim too deeply to get a smooth release. Nothing like practicing with Rocs to get the fundamentals down. Now I've got my pinky completely off the rim. I'm still working on the new grip but discs are flying very far and straight for me -- thanks for the tips, Dave! :)

Thanks Dave, I think I get it now. Can't wait to give it a try this weekend!

Luke

This is really for distance rather than golf. Just like any other throw, it will take a while to get the feel, and it might necessitate a different grip for approaches as the hyperspin method probably has too much acceleration for approaches. What I am trying to say is that golf is a game of accuracy rather than distance per se. Don't lose accuracy chasing distance. A safe place to use hyperspin is rollers. You have to flip them anyway.

My previous power grip was essentially a holdover from throwing lids with my index finger on the outside. The snap and resulting spin of golf plastic is from a stronger grip, not wrist motion. Once your shoulder has started the arm whip, your hand is just along for the ride. Extra power comes from gripping tighter, increasing the friction between the disc and your hand and thus the potential energy of the disc. The way I visualized the open wrist grip is to imagine tugging on a frozen car door handle. Your whole hand and the 50+ muscles that power it are aligned with the grip. Of course, this is just what I've experienced; I'm in no danger of breaking any distance records so YMMV.

davei et al:

Part of getting an air bounce is the angle of insertion into the air, so to speak. With the old-school lids, we used to throw the disc downward with the nose up nearly 45 degrees. The thrust was from the center of the flight plate downward at a 45 degree angle. Lots of snap.
I've seen variations of this technique in disc golf but with smaller angles involved. The disc actually travels downward
right after the release, then lifts like crazy and zooms off.
I think Stokely has refined the technique to perfection. He throws an air bounce that doesn't visibly bounce, but just thrusts forewards.

Also, some guys coil their wrists so far around the disc on the backswing that the edge of the disc is under the forearm.

Seen it, wouldnt recommend it though. Too weak, for my starting position, butt ymmv.

Wow Dave. Finally got a chance to get out and try some of this. The open wrist position really fixed a lot of things for me. I was palming the disc a little too much before. I'm getting a good pinch on the disc now and it seems to fix some of the off-axis torque I was putting on the disc. I have a tendancy to bounce the discs out.

Will keep working it. Thanks for your time...

cool. :cool:

I haven't noticed any real changes in the throw when I use this method. I'm going back out today, so I'll give it a whirl, but let me make sure I have the grip right:

I'm holding a disc RHBH. I then turn my wrist 90 degrees to the right. This results in the disc being perpindicular to the ground, with my thumb facing to the right and my fingers to the left.

Is that the proper grip? It feels fairly akward throwing like that, so how do you follow through on it?

shanest, sorry I cant follow. The disc is parallel to the ground. The grip is a power grip starting without curling your wrist back, but instead, make it go forward until it stops at about 45 degree open. The disc remains parallel to the ground, just like it flies.

shanest, sorry I cant follow. The disc is parallel to the ground. The grip is a power grip starting without curling your wrist back, but instead, make it go forward until it stops at about 45 degree open. The disc remains parallel to the ground, just like it flies.




Dave, are you saying that when holding the disc RHBH with the powergrip. If you extending your right arm as if to shake someones hand,
Neutral is a Straight Wrist
Closed is curling the disc so it almost touches the inner forearm.
Open is Turning the Wrist Clockwise as far as you can
while keeping the disc parallel to the ground.

If this is an accurate description of "OPEN" do you hold the open postion during your reach back and then let it close during the accelartion toward the hit and explode back open?

If so, this is very similar to keeing your wrists un-hinged in a ball golf back swing for as long as possible, as the club reachs the top of its takeway arch, the wrist snap hinged and as you start the down swing the wrists remain hinged for as long as possible. One of many keys to power in a ball golf swing is how long a person can hold the hinge position before releasing into the hit. A number of years ago there was an intersting article about Davis Love III's swing talking about this.

Sorry for the thread drift but it helps me to visual and understand the concept when I can compare to golf. There are more simalarities, like hip/shoulder rotation creating torque...hips open first etc.

Jay

jwlyons, you are describing it properly. I am not sure about the hinging description, but I certainly dont curl my wrist back and it does wag back momentarily as I extend into the hit.

So do you hold the open position as you reach back?

Once fully turned away and extended back, starting forward you lead with the elbow and accelerate as fast as possible....the wrist should close naturally as the arm unfolds...and then BAM....snap open and bounce back after release?

Jay

Jay, I am mostly neutral in my backswing, which is also very short. I might be open slightly, just before the wag back. When I open the wrist into the hit, it stays open until the throw is over. Starting from an open position might work better. I will give it a try.

So Dave, does this mean that all that extra spin flips the disc easier??

What makes a disc flip? too much arm speed or too much rotation? thanks

jaymo, two things make a disc flip; relative wind velocity, and and pitch angle. When you do the hyperspin thing, you increase relative wind velocity (basically speed), and you lower pitch angle. If you want the disc to be overstable, just throw it slower with nose up. Spin is not as important.

Dave, I'd like to hear your thoughts on nose angle (up/down) reletive to hyzers/anhyzers...
A very open question indeed, but some perspective will be appreciated! :cool:

circle 2, I am not sure what you are asking but I would use nose up turnover for a flex shot, and nose down for a long continuing turnover. I would use nose up hyzer for a sharp turning hyzer and nose down for a slow turning hyzer or to flip a slight hyzer up to flat for a long straight cruise.

hrm, can't believe i passed over this thread until now...

Dave,

i think you are now describing what i experienced when i first started being able to control the bent elbow technique a couple of summers ago before my shoulder went buh bye.

could you describe the flight path at all or at least let me know if what i describe at all resembles what you are referring to?

the day i first got this, i threw about 225 drives in a field, and believe i was getting this for about 50% of my final 100 throws that day.

the disc was leaving my hand with an incredible amount of snap and a very audible sound of my fingers slapping against my palm on the rip followed by a "whirring" sound of the disc cutting through the air.

regardless of the hyzer and nose angles, the disc flew perfectly straight for the first 20-30% while holding whatever angle i released it with. at around the 25% mark, the disc then abruptly flipped/popped (either flat or over depending upon the disc) and seemingly accelerated in a nose down position.

what it looked like from my perspective was that the disc flew like a projectile for 75-150' or so and THEN flew like i was accustomed to seeing a disc fly.

im just curious if this is at all similar to what you are describing. i was not able to do it more consistently than 50-60% of the time but it added around 20% to my average drive length when i succeeded.

thanks

Blake, it could very well be. The hallmarks for me are the late turn and rise while turning. Of course this goes along with the very fast initial velocity which seems to accompany a lot of spin, which is why I called it hyperspin.

ah yes, i think it probably is.

the first period of flight i definitely gauged as exceeding cruise speed which left me somewhat puzzled. i was mainly throwing broken in DX eagles and newish DX teebirds at the time. with the eagles i was finding that with sufficient hyzer, they would "pop" flat and hit cruise, then fly with more of a line-drive s-curve gradual turn and fade for the final 2/3 of the flight. with the teebirds however, i was finding with a lot of hyzer, they would pop to flat and ride straight (with hardly any turn or fade) and would just sort of "hover" down as they ran out of momentum but still had adequate spin to stay stable.

i was searching for ways to increase the carry as at the time i thought i was "cheating myself" of some distance because the disc hit the ground while it was still carrying a lot of RPM's. i was throwing bent elbow at the time and was experimenting with adding a bit of reach in an attempt to increase the forward velocity vectors that i was hoping would result in greater momentum while still maintaining enough snap to get this flight path. in actuality, i was probably hitting my max D but with just a lot more spin than usual.

as for your posts about using this as a "golf technique" vs. pure D, i did find a way to control it very well (when i could achieve it consistently) but most people would probably consider the method i used to be undesirable.

i had a couple of slight nose up releases with ~45 degrees of hyzer angle that actually flew perfectly straight and incredibly fast with a slight nose up orientation until they "popped" flat and nose down and flew very stable and very far with broken in eagles and teebirds. my friend called it "an airbounce on steroids" because i was guessing it would stall out or slow down, but when it flipped to flat, it carried a long ways (relatively compared to my usual D, i was breaking 400' with this method).

at the time, i was going through major changes in my throwing motion, so i wasn't sure what i had come across. i do remember the key being in the rip/finish. the downside i had was that some days i had it and some days i didn't, but i needed a different set of drivers for each of those days :p

am looking to test my shoulder out this weekend and will see if i can still pull this off.

After a few weeks of adjusting my grip and getting comfortable with more of the thumb (palm) up on the flight plate and an open wrist position (about 45�), the disc is flying more nose up. Am I getting too much of the thumb up on top of the disc? I would like to get the nose down a bit more.

In contrast, my previous power grip had very little of the palm on top of the disc, and the tips of the fingers pressed against the wall of the rim. Fingernails often had to be cut prior to a round. This new grip uses much more of the pads of the fingers instead of the tips.

When the timing is right, this new grip is adds distance, but has also changed the flight path. With the old grip, nearly every big D was a helix. Using the same disc (Z Wildcat) the new grip requires much more hyzer for about the same if not more distance. I'm thinking about stepping up to a more overstable disc and bringing back the helix line.

Does any of this make sense, Dave, anyone?

yes, it does make sense. considering that i have very short fingers, i have always been forced to use a pad grip (to preserve proper disc orientation) so i can't comment on the affects of the grip change.

i can say that i had a similar experience when i started getting rip in an wrist open vs. wrist neutral position. i think the culprit is probably this change in wrist position (assuming the hit occurs in a "wrist down" position when your wrist is neutral). to see this visually, hold the disc at your usual rip point in a wrist neutral position and then move to wrist open and look at the nose angle. i'm guessing that for you, the nose of the disc raises slightly in the wrist open position.

as for the flight path question, i had similar a result, but i don't see any reason why you should commit to one or the other. if you feel more comfortable throwing a helix for max D, go with something more overstable for that, but it's nice to also have a straighter flying hyzer-flip in the bag for tighter holes.

my 2 cents

Blake is a good putter! Ask him to help you. I think he is gonna start a 900 number for putting therapy. $4.95 a minute. LOL!!! :D

Davei et al:

Interesting that this type of throw has no name. A player I know at Oak Grove (Rich) throws this way and can throw well over 500 feet. He definitely throws the farthest of any Oak Grove regular. I can get a disc to describe the same pattern, though at much shorter distances, if it's light enough (for me very light) or with a mild to medium headwind, so forward air-speed has a lot to do with it..

I wouldn't call it 'hyperspin,' even though 'hyperspin' may be involved, as putting hyperspin on a disc in no way guarantees any distance in and of itself. It's just one of several elements in the flight pattern. Maybe it should be called a 'flip-drive,' or 'hyper-drive.'
I commented to Rich that that type of throw really should have a name. He just smiled and said: "Big arm!"

Hyperdrive :D

Hyperspin, eh? All I can say is:

"Punch it Chewie!"

Going to have to reread this thread. Grip and disc orientation are bigger factors then I initially believed. As some may know, I'm always looking for more D.

There's a fairly recent discussion of this technique in here.
In that forum the shot seems to have acquired the more appropriate name of 'hyzer-flip.'
Hyper-spin is only one element involved in this long range throw.
Check it out for more info. :D

I don't think the 2 are the same thing. The hyzer-flip doesn't seem to bounce and accelerate as this throw is described to do. The hyzer-flip just seems to get the disc into a proper position for maximum glide. I plan to be working on this the next week, I just have to figure out the grip to give it a try.

It's also because Dave describes the shot as a distance shot, and not a golf shot. The hyzer-flip is a very useful and accurate disc golf shot.

gnduke, I don't think it's any specific grip, but it needs to be a strong one at the pop. I am also fairly convinced that your wrist position should be somewhat open when you stiffen it for the bounce (hit, pop, rip, etc). It never happens to my throws unless they are going well over 400 ft. If I am not throwing fast enough that day, it won't happen, no matter what technique I use.

gnduke:

I'm pretty sure we're talking about the same thing. Perhaps the confusion arises from semantics.
To clarify, I'm talking about a throw that starts out straight ahead with a hyzer angle, often with a rise in height and then (about a third of the way) flips up level and appears to accelerate while flying flat, high and straight or turning a bit to the right to describe an elongated helix.
It is the longest type of throw I've ever seen and often achieves a height of 50 or 60 feet. I've also seen this throw finish straight ahead with no appreciable fade.
It can also be done without the tremendous height, but not for as much distance.
I'm not able to do it consistently unless the conditions are just right. :p For me that means a light weight disc (e.g.150dx Beast) and a slight headwind or even a left to right crosswind.
I try to pull the disc through (rhbh) with a hyzer angle and snap it straight ahead.
Great feeling when it all comes together! :D

Hey Dave,

Not being smart enough to read the more informative threads, I have sort of been discovering this for myself over the past 6 months. However, I have a tendancy to move my thumb into the center of the disc when I try to push the disc forward (open) into the 45 degree position (see Juliana Korver's grip). The problem with that is that it seriously stresses my thumb upon release. Are you keeping your thumb at or near the edge of the disc?

Also, the more I open my wrist (again I'm aiming for the idea that if I look down my forearm, disc parallel to the ground, I look right through the middle of the disc, my hand wants to roll further underneath the disc the more I push the disc out. What this does is the following: in my normal grip my finger pads are on the rim and my fingers are fairly perpendicular to the flight plate ( that is all the fingers are in the power grip postion you have described with the nuckles going forward, but if you think about your fingers as lining up in a plane, that plane is perpendicular to the flight plate) . In the disc forward position my fingers go from perpendicular to a more parallel position with my pads rotating to the tips of my fingers on the rim. Do I want to keep my old positioning? It takes more effort to do so but I can.

That's pretty much what I was decribing, but you can go a long way less than 15' off the ground. Great for long straight tunnel shots.

I still haven't really noticed the perceived increase in speed that you and Dave are referring to, but I have been throwing this shot since the Viper was the distance king. It was the first disc that I was able to do a hyzer flip with, and that was only out to 300'.

This may be a reverse air-bounce. Stokley, and I'm sure there's others, throws a distance shot with the nose down, but he's throwing it up and out as well. It sure looks like the disc accelerates with afterburner style! Y'all have seen how a disc appears to gain spin out of the hand...and I think what's happening here is the combo of the reverse airbounce coupled with the optical illusion of spin increasement! (Not sure if that's a word, but it logically fits!)



I've attended a few of Scott's demos...and when he throws (for distance) there is a 'LOUD "POP"' at release and the disc is oriented nosedown...and...heading up skyward simultaneously. Very impressive!

gnduke:

That 'perceived increase in speed' must be only that, perceived.
I don't think it's possible for a thrown object to accelerate any
faster than it is moving at release.
It must be an illusion of some sort.
:p

Lyle, it is fine to put your thumb pad toward the center of the disc for this shot particularly, but don't use your thumbpad to pinch. Use your fingers into the base of your thumb. Can't answer the second part of your post as I don't understand what you are saying. I will say this about grips, though: it needs to be very strong at the rip point. This is the last part of the rim hanging on before it gets catapulted out. Whatever grip gives you the strogest release with the disc in plane with your forearm, is the best for you.