I had a post on the discussion board (the kiosk) of my clubs website www.tendickdiscgolf.com (http://www.tendickdiscgolf.com) from a "course pro" (no PDGA # and I do not think has ever competed) in a nearby town gripin' and moanin' about how he is sick of seeing people writting their names on the backs of the signs noting an ace. He likened it to dogs marking trees and threatened to call the cops and "ban" that person from using that public park thereafter. I have played over 300 courses in the US and have seen this everywhere and even encourage the practice on the course in which I am the course pro. In my opinion the back of a standard sign is unused and serves no purpose, it is not like a trashed basket or a slain tree. Whadda ya think?

I think your own disc is the place to note any aces, not public/private property.

Thanks for bringing this up. (rant on)It is vandalism. I never saw that until I moved to Minnesota. The problem is, people start using the front of the sign as well. Also, some people feel the need to add explitives to their accomplishment. Nope, don't like it. Don't do it on my course! :mad:Write it on your disc, and have those in your group sign the disc. (rant off)

As someone with many aces, I think it isn't a good practice to write on something that isn't yours. If I did it, people would be real mad at me.

I have an 18 hole Mach V private course that took me years to save for and buy. If I ever found someone's name written on my equipment, they would be banned. No questions ask.
Tell your friends, but if you have to announce it publicly, Sponsor that hole in the next tournament and put it on the sponsorship sign. That would get some attention.

I'm a traditionalist. Mark the disc, not the disc golf course!

Well, on DISCatcher baskets, they sign the spank ring.....I have had a few aces, and never done that. Now the discs themselves, have seen plenty of expletives, and names.

I've not yet had an ace, but if I did get one, I'd very much prefer to have something to take home with me to remember the ace. Therefore, my witnesses gets to sign my disc, and that disc goes up on the wall. If you're a local course pro, or own a course, I'd set something up to steer away from vandalism like maybe an ace list on a website of some kind, so bragging rights are done through this. I don't see ball golfers leaving their mark on the courses they use, (do correct me if I'm wrong) I sure can't picture them signing a flag.

I've only noticed it in the Midwest (and I specifically remember it in Rochester MN). It looks tacky, and yeah, I consider it vandalism.

How is it different from Graffiti?

Put a sign on the message board and let people note their aces there.

I sure can't picture them signing a flag.




Now THATS a funny visualization.......

That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. Are you kidding me, signing baskets and tee signs? I've been to 38 courses in NC, VA, and SC and I've never seen anything like that.

The sad part is, if someone aces they probably have a good bit of skill(i.e. not a casual player). Usually on the courses I play I've only seen casual players doing stupid things on the course... like kicking down small trees, jumping on the baskets and breaking benches. You would think the people with skill who are involed in the sport like that wouldn't vandalize their own courses. Sad.

I think you`re not too bright, it`s vandalism .

How about having an ace list on the course bullitin board or something? I, too, would steer away from marking up the course equipment.

Luke/NJ

If it ain't yours, then its vandalism, and the legal penalty would be no different than pulling up the sign and smashing a tree with it. Fair enough in my eyes.

Can someone please explain to me how it hurts or does anything to the course if there is marker on the pole of a basket??? I see no problem in doing this as long as it isnt vulgar or offensive. It doesnt effect the fuction of the basket or anythin of that nature. Most of the time you cant even see it unless you are picking you disc out of the basket. I dont think it takes away from the course or does any damage. A sharpie on a basket pole doesnt effect anyone. And out here in MI is pretty much what goes on all the time. So if someone can give me a good reason or show me how it affects anything then maybe ill change my mind and stop putting marker on a pole that eventually fades away anyway!!!

If it were my course i would say sign away. Maybe even have a specific board on the top of each basket to write it there or a specific place by the tee sign???

I know this has been a problem at my local course UW Parkside in the past. The course has recently had new signs installed with boards just below the tee sign for the purpose of writing your ace. Now the signs dont get all markered up and the people that want to publicly display their aces can. I think this makes everyone happy. If some idiot makes obsecne markings on the ace board, simply remove it and replace it.

Signing baskets, especially on Innova discatchers, looks really tacky. The fact that the signatures fade away doesn't really help either. You wind up with a bunch of half faded marker all over the place that looks really trashy. I have a feeling parks department directors wouldn't be too pleased with seeing this activity. Who knows it might even cause them to be a little slow approving future courses. (ex. If disc golfers treat the baskets this way what are they doing to the plants, etc. in the park?)

Okay Steve, I'll bite. You have no problem with people writing on baskets or signs. I don't own a Sharpie. All I have is flourescent spray paint. That's going to look really nice isn't it?

I'll agree to the spank ring, or teesign "marks" is tacky looking, but the actual basket pole doesnt seem all THAT bad....

Hysell, you trouble maker you!!! :mad:


of course, i still wont be doing any of the above.....

Excellant idea, fossil! If you must post it on the hole, sponsor the hole and request it be printed on the tee sign.

I guess people in NC care about their courses enough not to write graffiti all over the baskets and teesigns. Ask your course pro what he thinks about it discpimp. I'm sure he'll just love it, LOL. Even if it is only on the baskets, do you think it'll stop there? If you encourage this, pretty soon it'll be all over the tee signs, tee pads and anywhere else people can write. Shoot, I'm going to start spray painting my name on the court when i make a 3 point shot in the park, writing my name on every base I steal or sign the toilet when i take a huge shi+. Who cares if you ace? You think people want to see your name on the basket? How many pros do you see doing this? Really discpimp... I want to know.

I was just in Oregon last week where I played two courses. Both courses get VERY LITTLE traffic, maybe a dozen players a day. And there are some tee signs with signed aces. I think it is pretty cool for those courses, and it hasn't gotten out of hand (no one has signed a leaf yet engrhawg). I love the culture that is associated with smaller courses, and writing aces on tee signs is part of the culture.

However, my home course is Morley Field, San Diego. There is no way this would be good for my course for many reasons. One of which is that their are probably 2-3 aces each day at this course, with over 130,000 people visiting it each year, there isn't enough room on a tee sign for that many aces. And Snapper would start getting ****** off something awful if a trend like that started.

Team_Bofa I would like to comment on something you said..."Who cares if you ace? You think people want to see your name on the basket? How many pros do you see doing this?" If one of my friends gets an ace, I care. I am happy for them, and I want to know about it. Taking the attitude of no one gives a crap if you ace accept for you is pretty selfish, I always love partying with my friends when they get their first ace. And saying that pros don't do that, indicating that because pros don't do it, it is wrong. Sorry I don't buy that, This sport doesn't exist because of the pros, and who is going to enjoy getting an ace more, some weekend player who plays for the love of the game and gets his first ace, or some arrogant pro who gets 4 aces a month and plays so that he can be better than everyone else? I was playing with a pro a couple months ago and I almost aced a hole off of a tree skip, his response, "It hit a tree and almost went in, it wasn't a good drive it doesn't matter" Wow, if everyone could promote our sport like that, this sport could be big!

/end diatribe

My guess is that most people who are doing this either have not been playing as long or they just have no respect for private/public property. Maybe they just don't know better. Most of the courses are on public property. Most people who play in the Austin area don't even look at this bored. You can learn a few things about this game from this bored. :eek: The problem is, if there is one, there will be more. There are usually no signs indicating that this is disallowed. If you were a NEWB and just hit your first ace, saw a signature on the basket, would you sign the belt too?

I'm sure this isn't happening from dsic golf long-time vets. Or maybe they're just boobs.

My guess is that most people who are doing this either have not been playing as long or they just have no respect for private/public property. Maybe they just don't know better.


This sums up my first post. Obviously I agree with Martin.


If one of my friends gets an ace, I care. I am happy for them, and I want to know about it. Taking the attitude of no one gives a crap if you ace accept for you is pretty selfish, I always love partying with my friends when they get their first ace.


Man that�s awesome you care about your friends ace. But when I'm playing a course I couldn't care less about his ace or seeing his name written on a basket on one of the few courses we have in the US. We need to teach people to take care of our courses. You can talk and tell stories about your aces to share them with people.
As to the second part of the quote I'll assume you meant "except for you"...LOL. Anyway I just wish I could walk up and see a pro or ANYONE for that matter writing on a basket while I'm playing. I would say, "Do you know how dumb you look right now?". Its vandalism plain and simple. Write it on your disc. Operative word "YOUR". What makes you think you have the right to sign your name? Did you buy the basket? Well then by all means do what you want with it, but if it�s in a public park, respect it. To me buddy, writing your name on a basket is selfish.

Vandalism
(n.) The spirit or conduct of the Vandals; ferocious cruelty; hostility to the arts and literature, or willful destruction or defacement of their monuments.


graffiti
pl n
(singular:
1 [sometimes with sing vb] drawings, messages, etc., often obscene, scribbled on the walls of public lavatories, advertising posters, etc.

2 (Archaeol) inscriptions or drawings scratched or carved onto a surface, esp. rock or pottery

Vandalism of public or private property with graffiti for one's own personal gratification is childish, uncalled for and illegal.

I am a huge proponent of natural beauty and leave-no-trace ethics. Please don't force me to acknowledge what a loser you are by proclaiming how much your already over-inflated ego needs stroking, i.e. "I had an ace here"! Do something with your talent to benefit others rather than destroy the face of something others come to enjoy.

Yes, I meant except, not accept. My bad.

Well martin, this boob has been playing for 11 years, one thing I do know is how to spell BOARD. The other thing that I know is that I spend an awfull lot of time clearing trash, maintaining tee pads, and run weekly leagues. I am not whinin' but I bet it is a hell of a lot more than most of the responders here. So when it is implied that I am an idiot engaging in course destruction I think about the baskets I have had to pull and have the Parks Dept. fix, the cigarette smokers that throw their burning butts to the ground and **** near start the whole course on fire and well placed trees ripped out of the ground. That to me is vandalism.

This got ugly fast. I also have been playing for 11 years and I maintain two courses and run leagues and PDGA events. Writing on tees signs and baskets is still vandalism.

Whoever writes on the tee signs or pole of the baskets...can I come over and write on your walls with some crayons? If your ego needs to be stroked, sign your disc hang it on your wall or whatever people do with their ace discs. Tell the story to all of your buds. Enjoy what you did, just keep the courses clean. Please.

I think about the baskets I have had to pull and have the Parks Dept. fix, the cigarette smokers that throw their burning butts to the ground and **** near start the whole course on fire and well placed trees ripped out of the ground. That to me is vandalism.



Yep, vandalism. Well, destruction of property, littering and vandalism...

Are you trying to say that some vandalism is okay while other vandalism is not? :confused:

Or, perhaps, it's okay to vandalize if you also volunteer? :confused:

Strange concept.

There seems to be alot of people here that love to put words into others' posts.

Then what are you trying to say Mark? Oh, and we haven't heard a response from discpimp the basket signing advocate. You out there buddy?

Pride does not allow room for vandalism of any kind.
This "scribbling behavior" sounds unsightly and embarrassing...especially when I'm showing a newbie the DG ropes, or showing off our local courses to an out-of-towner...whether I know them or not.

My view is that it is not vandalism. I understand the literal definition of it but it is in no way the same as a trashed basket.

Well martin, this boob has been playing for 11 years, one thing I do know is how to spell BOARD. The other thing that I know is that I spend an awfull lot of time clearing trash, maintaining tee pads, and run weekly leagues. I am not whinin' but I bet it is a hell of a lot more than most of the responders here. So when it is implied that I am an idiot engaging in course destruction I think about the baskets I have had to pull and have the Parks Dept. fix, the cigarette smokers that throw their burning butts to the ground and **** near start the whole course on fire and well placed trees ripped out of the ground. That to me is vandalism.



all I can do is laugh. Sorry to have ruffled your feathers, Mark. I am sure you are a credit to your area's disc golf scene and like people who sign baskets after aces, there is no need to proclaim your actions to me. Write it on a disc and then go take a break. Breath in; Breath out. Serenity, now. Serenity, now.

speelling wuz nevr someting I boastted aboot. I can't even spell *sshole. ;)

My view is that it is not vandalism. I understand the literal definition of it but it is in no way the same as a trashed basket.



Ahh slippery slopes and away we go!!!

Acetone is effective to remind folks that keeping the park clean includes keeping the baskets unmarked.

Please enjoy your ace, celebrate your ace, tell me about your ace, but leave OUR (yours and mine) basket and tee sign unmarked.

So graffiti isn't vandalism?




Vandalism of public or private property with graffiti for one's own personal gratification is childish, uncalled for and illegal.




I think girlie laid it out for you plain and simple. I don't understand your concept. Man I'm glad nobody around here does that crap. When I first read the title of this thread I seriously thought it was a joke. Like why would you be asking such a stupid question?... and there are people out there that actually do this?... and now even still, there people out there that do this and think its ok??... OMG call me crazy but I don't understand.

LOL :D
That was funny.

"Well martin, this boob has been playing for 11 years, one thing I do know is how to spell BOARD"

the obvious is that BORED = BOARD. Somehow the spelling differs but the meaning, in this case, mean the same.

"I know. Let's have a spelling contest." -Tombstone :cool:

For a stupid question it has gotten a hell of a response. To all that have responded, thank you. Your input is noted and appreciated. breathe in breathe out breathe in breathe out OHM OHM

Response... more like outrage.

Can someone please explain to me how it hurts or does anything to the course if there is marker on the pole of a basket??? I see no problem in doing this as long as it isnt vulgar or offensive. It doesnt effect the fuction of the basket or anythin of that nature. Most of the time you cant even see it unless you are picking you disc out of the basket. I dont think it takes away from the course or does any damage. A sharpie on a basket pole doesnt effect anyone. And out here in MI is pretty much what goes on all the time. So if someone can give me a good reason or show me how it affects anything then maybe ill change my mind and stop putting marker on a pole that eventually fades away anyway!!!

If it were my course i would say sign away. Maybe even have a specific board on the top of each basket to write it there or a specific place by the tee sign???



Heres one for you "Pimp"....Its a sign of accomplishment right..you want everyone to know you did got a ace, right :D

Next time take your sharpie and write it across the hood of your car. That way it will be everywhere you go and you can tell everyone about it. Heck its "your property" so you can do what ever the heck you like :o

But when it concerns "Our" discgolf courses "Leave them cleaner than you found it" as Juliana used to say.
If you want to put in a course on your private property, go ahead and deface it all you want.

Some acehole aced the first hole at our park and maked it on the tee sign so it is one of the first things you see when you come to our park. Besides depleating the beauty of our park it might set a bad example for others to follow. I think marking on a disc is what should be done. We also had a man made bench that people would mark their aces on which I thought was fine since it was tucked away in the trees at the one resting spot at our course. Marking a parks and recreation bench would not be acceptable on the other hand.

Another thing that really offends me when I play disc golf is when I see someone wearing short pants and a tank top! Can't they show a little more respect and wear pants and a collared shirt! It's an outrage!

Ryan, I will offend you. I try to wear shorts and a tank top even in the winter.

Ryan, are you kidding?

How about short shorts and NO shirt, with the beer belly hanging out?

TEAM FATBOY!!!!

:D

are we talking about girls or guys here, Cong? Not that a beer belly on a girl is sexy, or is it? :eek:

GET IN MY BELLY!!

Well, a beer belly ona girl CAN be sexy, depending on the rest of her physique....

I was just trying to turn a stomach or three.....

Whoever writes on the tee signs or pole of the baskets...can I come over and write on your walls with some crayons?



Sure. I like the really bold colors. It gives the walls character.

What up guys im BACK. I dont think that signing the moster yellow chastidy belt on the Discatches is Good i think it looks like Trash. i dont think the Front of the Tee Sign is good either. Thats trashy looking and destroys the course. the pole of a discatcher or the pole of any basket where it get scuffed by discs and get black marks and orange paint some places in the winter and gets stickers and dirt and whatever else on it is NO BIG DEAL. You guys make comparisons to wall in your room and hood of your car and all kinds of other stupid rediculous *****. Those comments are all assinine and i dont even take that into concideration because neither of them are relatively close to a small raw steel pole in the woods. If it looks like crap and takes away from the quality of the course then yes i am against if and whoever does it. Other then that i dont think that it really matters. Whoever said they have a Ace Plate on all thier tee signs, that was an amazing idea. Thats perfect spend five extra bucks a hole and then everyone will be happy.

My Opinion TEE SIGNS=BAD Chastidy belt on Discatchers=BAD Pole of any hole=Fine as long as its with a sharpie and not Hysells Spray paint :D. So the only place i think it is Acceptible is on the pole of the basket you hit the ACE on anywhere else is lowering the quality of the course. Which i highly dislike. Any comment i forgot to hit feel free to let me know.

So in the end course distruction and abuse is bad and i do not condone it. But a little bragging on the pole of a basket doesnt bother me one bit and if and when i have my own courses i will advocate the signing of a pole and only a pole to post your ACE for everyone to see. I will also have an ACE board outside my Pro Shop.

CBDiscPimp OUT

Crayons and Walls and Sharpies and A steel pole in the Woods are two completly different things. But maybe i should start lettin all the girls that sleep in my bed sign the wall though ;) That could be a good idea. Thanks and why dont you go observe something that makes sence and then see if you can relay it back to all of us.

Would those girls even be old enough to know how to spell their name? :D

Next time take your sharpie and write it across the hood of your car. That way it will be everywhere you go and you can tell everyone about it. Heck its "your property" so you can do what ever the heck you like :o



Why stop at a sharpie? Get those vanity plates and all that fine detailing and decals. Don't forget all those pimping neon lights.

I tried the sharpie thing on my cars but they are black and ink doesn't stick to the wax. They sure are pretty.

I do have a vanity plate and i did have neon lights does that have anything to do with Disc Golf or could you just not think up a comback for how stupid your comment was??? :p
So if you dont have anything to say on the subject at hand please stick to observing the message board and come back when you have something useful to say.
Thanks.

hey hysell the spray paint should work nicely on those black cars of your :D
Let me know how it looks.
Just messin with you man

thanks for the clarification........I agree, the pole isnt bad, yet I still woudnt do it....

I LOVE the Ace Sign idea.....

My Opinion TEE SIGNS=BAD Chastidy belt on Discatchers=BAD Pole of any hole=Fine as long as its with a sharpie and not Hysells Spray paint . So the only place i think it is Acceptible is on the pole of the basket you hit the ACE on anywhere else is lowering the quality of the course. Which i highly dislike. Any comment i forgot to hit feel free to let me know.

So in the end course distruction and abuse is bad and i do not condone it. But a little bragging on the pole of a basket doesnt bother me one bit



IMO. Your opinion as stated above is condoning certain types of vandalism as okay and other types as not. How can YOU draw the line?

I see that you are planning on competing in The Memorial this year - perhaps you will ace there - would you then pull out your sharpie in front of the TD and sign your name on the poll of the target? Or are vandalism and all other illegal acts reserved for casual rounds vs. sanctioned play?

Signing any part of the basket or tee sign = BAD. The ace sign is a great idea.

That was my point. This question has brought out many opinions and analogies that really make no sense.

From reading, I am taking the understanding that if I want to mark an ace I should write on my car and invite the world over to color my walls with crayons. Also it is only an egotistical person that would want to proclaim how great they are by marking a tee sign or basket pole. Is it not an animal instinct to mark territory, are humans not animals? If we weren't egotistical creatures we wouldn't need newspapers annoucing all the great things we have done and our big plans for the future - Do I really need to know that two people I don't even know are engaged?

Your disc golf courses are great on many levels, they provide recreation, preserve nature and stop over development of our green spaces. If something as trivial as marking a tee sign can get you all so riled up, wow! I hope you are this passionate about everything in your life!

Nobody cares about your ace discpimp. Nobody in their right mind would want their home courses' baskets defaced. Especially us law abiding citizens that care about our public courses. I'm sure you don't ace much anyway so this is pretty pointless.

It's vandalism. I'm done, I can't stand idiots.

Okay everybody let's do a great big group hug. Okay maybe not but I'll hug you next time I see you girlie. No lingering this time.

signing a pole is ghey.

Hey BoFa,

I'm looking forward to meeting you in High Point!

Take it light,
Lindsay

:D

Uh-ohh chris... Looks like I get the hug :DYeah girlie no doubt. My g/f needs some competition!

Peace

It's really ghey especially since it falls under the Equipment thread of the message board.

Could this be the next MRV thread?

:Dhugs :D

I created a poll.

Go vote (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=130705&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1)

Girlie I'm working on a correlation between hugs and kisses and spoons and sporks? There are some face to face and clothing optional references involved. Can you help me with this sometime?

Thanks Jim, hell no is going to crush.

Simmer Down :o

Hey Bofa you can kiss my ACEhole. I have done it twice. And i never even stated that before. I wont do it anymore. One was my first ACE and the second was a hole as far as i know no one else has ACED. So you can shut your mouth because you are an idiot just for being an ACEHOLE and talking crap about my game when you dont even know me.
Ill be glad to play you if you would like though. Come on out to Cass Benton and ill show you around.
ALL I SAID WAS POLE IS OK ANYWHERE ELSE IS BAD.
and i can make that distinction girlie because it doesnt take away from the beauty of the course and doesnt stand out.

Im done dealing with ACEHOLES like Team BOFA but ill keep posting just to **** them off :D

I don't know man... that 880 rating of yours is scaring me off....LOL. Hey, I'll be at worlds this year, you can look me up.

jim it should specify only on the pole no where else except your own disc. Cuz that leaves open all kinds of other things. but im voting with the pole idea but i think the ACE SIGN is the best idea. :D

cosidering that rating is based off my two worst rounds of the year and ive only been playing seriously for this past season you can be as scared as you want. When i make it to worlds ill give you a holla and maybe we can shoot a few rounds together. Or if you ever get up to the ann arbor area let me know ill show you around.

I have done it twice. And i never even stated that before. I wont do it anymore...ALL I SAID WAS POLE IS OK ANYWHERE ELSE IS BAD.




If the pole is okay - why won't you do it anymore?

Also, I'd be interested to hear your answer regarding vandalism during tournament play.

Puttin an ACE sign on every tee sign is the best solution.
That is my final answer. But untill that happens the pole is fine with me. Thanks for listening. By the way bofa what is your pdga number and what is your rating. i cant find it anywhere. thanks

The best solution is to write it on your disc.

Eddie Ogburn
pdga# 23102
Rating: 922... should be around 940 ;)

Anything else bro? My address perhaps? Shoe size?

I think you guys would make a nice couple.

Nobody cares about your ace discpimp. Nobody in their right mind would want their home courses' baskets defaced. Especially us law abiding citizens that care about our public courses. I'm sure you don't ace much anyway so this is pretty pointless.

It's vandalism. I'm done, I can't stand idiots.



WOAH!
Sensing a little anger maybe?
Where is your home course BoFa?
I feel an ace coming on in the next week, and their's a brand new sharpie in my bag! WooTah!

Thank God for idiots!

Eddie already has a girlfriend, silly hysell-head :D

Man, talk about an explosion thread.....

Where is your home course BoFa?
I feel an ace coming on in the next week, and their's a brand new sharpie in my bag! WooTah!

Thank God for idiots!



Cedar Hills Championship Course
Raleigh, NC

If you ace there I'd be surprised. I don't even think Hysell has aced there! I think ryan and discpimp are a good couple. Do two idiots make a moron?

While marking a pole to some seems pretty harmless, in conjuncture with littering , profanity,drug use, :mad:it might be enough to get a course pulled! Once a course is gone it ain`t never coming back.It`s vandalism get it.

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought that when you said you were done, that maybe it meant that you were done. My mistake. If I knew you were going to respond, I wouldn't have been so rude.

Are you trying to make yourself look like a dumba ss or does it just come naturally?

Come on Eddie. That is one of the few places where I have had two aces in one round. Hole 4 and 6. Plus I have aced #1 a few times.

It's natural!
Or maybe a more appropriate response would be...

Takes one to know one.

Where's Nick? :confused: Shouldn't he be on on this? :p

Wow, I thought this was a joke at first also. I don't think I have ever seen anyone do this. It seems ridiculous to me. Why do you need to sign anything? An ace sign seems just as ridiculous. Lets just leave everything looking as clean and untouched as possible ... it kind of goes along with the entire DG philosophy as a whole. Ya know ... pack out what you packed in and all that stuff. I definitely consider it vandalism and I would report anyone I saw doing this.
I would never even consider signing my own disc when I get an ace.
I think NFL kickers should sign the goal posts when they win a game with a field goal ...

Meanwhile... lets look at the pole. (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Equipment&Number=130705&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&vc=1&fpart=1)

agreed, Danny. Leave the course cleaner than you found it. One of my favorite parts of disc golf is the scenery. I would love to see someone try and sign a pole, basket, whatever during the Memorial or any event for that matter.

Maybe instead of signing the pole, you could sign the fore head of all the players of the card. That would be pretty sweet. Or you could do like me and scratch a notch on your gun for every ace you get.

It keeps me warm. WOLVERINES!!!!!
*insert C. Thomas Howell*

Vandalism during a sactioned event. Totally uncalled for. No i would not do it. I didnt know that people took so much offence to it which is why i wont do it anymore. Plus i dont care enough about getting aces anymore. So why should i post them to the world. Im sure every disc golfer would agree they would rather have 9 or 10 dueces in a round then 1 ACE, and if they disagree with that then they are complete ACEhole F***in Morons and liers. So on that note i wont be doing it anymore. I think vandalism during a sactioned event is nonsence. The ace sign is a great idea. whoever said it isnt can kiss my ACE. That would be a constructive and non DEstructive way to boast your ace. Wow Bofa 922 thats huge im really scared. So let me know when you want to come out and play in MI.

This is the least of our worries. we SHOULD be worried about F****in ACEholes that rip down our trees and deface our teesigns with obcene words and pictures and Throw trash on our courses and dump our garbage cans everywhere and STEAL our baskets whether they have names on the or not.
My opinion still stands. On the pole does not bother me one bit but tee signs and tee pads and wherever the hell else people put ***** is rediculous. Unless of course its on an above mentioned ACE sign. Does that about cover everyones questions for me. If not just let me know

Thank you ill be posting here for the rest of my life :D

Mind you i am also one of the people who picks up cans and bottle and trash while i am playing to make the course look better. I am also a ball golfer, so i know a little about course manners. Signing the Flag would also not bother me. Although that i would not do it. Leave the course cleaner then you found it is a Great moto and everyone should follow that. Plus it helps your KARMA too. So you can get those aces that you wont write on the pole :D

Chris, once again you have cracked me up.

:p

I was hoping for a challenge like "I'm from NC where we grow baggers. If you want to impress me, come down here and win the advanced points series". All I got was "I don't even think Hysell has aced there!"

i've only seen such graffitizing on one hole i've played. hole 13 (maybe) @ timmons park in greenville, SC. it was about 130' long and straight. there were lots of names on the chastity <-(remember that discpimp) belt of the disc catcher. all i could do was laugh about it. it was as if they were proclaiming, "hey! i made a long putt!"
good story, huh?

i won't write my name on a basket and i don't mark aces on discs either. (brief aside: i don't write my name on the disc either, but that's accessory information) dunno how many aces i have. lets say... several. no hope in dwelling on past disc golf glories. the next throw is the one to remember.

in summation: don't deface public property.

f.luke

Where's Nick? :confused: Shouldn't he be on on this? :p



He's busy with the PDGA Course Evaluation Committee

Depending on the situation some might actually want an ace over 9 or 10 birdies. I wouldn't mind it in if it was during the next local mini (because acepot would be nicer than winning in a division that i've already won), and i'm no f#$%king liar.

The sad part is, if someone aces they probably have a good bit of skill(i.e. not a casual player).



Unless it's Corn-hole. :p

I don't even think Hysell has aced there!



Maybe not, but he throws discs in the pond pretty regularly, don't you Chris? :p

I'd LOVE to see someone try to sign the pole or tee sign at the course I play at. I'm willing to bet they'd get their [*****] kicked, but then again alot of people think we are all shady people over at bb owen :D

Um...Yes.

Also launching discs off cliffs in WV is littering.

I got to stop being a litterbug...but at least I'm not a VANDAL!

yeah we got busted for throwing discs off the cliff at water works in KC to the ponds in the water plant. Its hard not too, anyone know what im talkn about i think its tee pad 5. you look off to the left and the water plant has a few pools and we use to chuck em there all the time, its a pretty good huck.

So you guys consider losing disc as littering too???
This is why these comparisons make no sence.

Losing a disc isnt littering but throwing one off a cliff is???
Marking a sign or a pole when hitting it with your disc isnt vandelism but writing on it with a sharpie is???
Doesnt seem logical to me. :confused:

Here we go again....

DiscPimp -

Your short term memory problems are evident - please re-read this entire thread :D

So you guys consider losing disc as littering too???
This is why these comparisons make no sence.

Losing a disc isn't littering but throwing one off a cliff is???
Marking a sign or a pole when hitting it with your disc isn't vandalism but writing on it with a sharpie is???
Doesn't seem logical to me. :confused:



The difference is your intentions, pimp. You don't mean to lose a disc but you voluntarily chunking discs into a 400ft chasm is intentional.

Same as marking a basket.

If I throw trash out my window, that is my choice. A bad choice but a choice.

MOST of the time losing a disc is accidental not intentional. And the majority of lost discs will be found and not just left on the course.

If splitting hairs was a sport, you'd be in first place. :D

If splitting hairs was a sport, you'd be in first place.



Gotta love it. :D Slam dunk by Martin!!!! :cool:

That post was meant to be a Question not a statement. I didnt say they were the same thing. I was just asking if you guys felt that they were. Its just like crayons on the wall is the same as Sharpie on a raw steel pole. Not the same thing.
All i was stating is that i dont undestand some of these comparisons because its like comparing apples and oranges. Sure they are both round and both fruit but they are also both nothing alike. So if your going to make comparisons please make relative ones :confused:
your right about my memory though girlie it does suck.
Sorry

So you guys consider losing disc as littering too???
This is why these comparisons make no sence.

Losing a disc isn't littering but throwing one off a cliff is???

Doesn't seem logical to me. :confused:



The difference is your intentions, pimp. You don't mean to lose a disc but you voluntarily chunking discs into a 400ft chasm is intentional.





Martin, so what do you call it at the Semi-Annual "Brazos Cross" throws in WACKO????

:o

Is there some sort of moron filter I can set up on this messageboard where you don't have to see a post if the person is a known and identified moron? I'll have to ask Conrad or Theo. :(

it's littering. Is it any difference than throwing a beer can off the boat? Even though throwing a beer can off a moving boat is way more fun than showing a bunch of people you can't crush. ;)

You talkin about anyone specific there Eddie??? If so grow the balls to say who the moron your talking is.
Thanks and have a nice day /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

*********** FILTER **************

Im glad your filtering yourself out. Good idea. start at the source i always say :D

Dam its not working...

This thread is an incredible waste of time.

I knew I could agree with Pimp on something. :D

My advice is to you Steve is to shut your eyes anytime you see that orange and white flag in a forum. My posts are usually uninformative and misleading. Basically...I'm an acehole. Just ask. ;) :D

This thread is an incredible waste of time.



I just love wasting time....at work.

ps. this waste of time thread is getting more views than a fly in a glass house.

Im with you Martin on the wasting time at work thing. if it wasnt for this site i dont think i could make it threw a day of work :D I also love being and instigator. Which is "PROLLY" well know already. Its amazing it still works
Your filter cant work eddie if you keep tryin to post stuff.

I also love being and instigator.



"an"

Since I started this thread I thought about all of the aces I have had and tried to think about all of the signs that were "tagged" with my name. What it boiled down to is that it was a small number of the total. The only time that I have ever done it in a tournament is when the members of my group insisted on it, I did not even think about doing it the last tourney ace I had, for no particular reason, it just did not cross my mind. I also thought about the aces I had on courses that did not even have tee signs, I did not make it a point to sign the basket. So, in response to one of your posts girlie, I think my childish,egotistical vandalism is reserved more for recreational rounds on courses that I know the practice happens, and up here you see it alot. Don't even start with bashing WI or the midwest, in my opinion, we have some of the best courses in the counrty here that have put forth world champions. Oh yeah, I also think that certain types of "gang" tagging is an art and looks quite nice.
:D

Which is "PROLLY" well know already.



Which is probably well "known" already.

thanks for the corrections guys. dont have time to proof read because i am wasting time at work

i've played over 100 course's and i've never heard or scene anyone sign a basket to prove they got an ace,but i have scene my share of dumb aceholes that climb on baskets,i've even scene them used as bbq pit by some people.most of the people that do this are pot smoking,beer drinking weekend worrier's that don't have any respect for what god has given us.as far as ace's goes i have made only five in the ten years i've been playing so i just usaully pass out from joy when it happens.i don't think sharpie will be sponsering me any time soon.
signed
the forgiven one

thanks for the corrections guys. dont have time to proof read because i am wasting time at work


That's:

<font color="red">T</font>hanks for the corrections<font color="red">,</font> guys. <font color="red">I</font> dont have time to <font color="red">proofread</font> because <font color="red">I</font> am wasting time at work<font color="red">.</font>

Now, write it 100 times.

Hey now, don't pigeon hole these people as pot smokers or beer drinkers when it is obvious they are idiots. Without the pot and beer these people would still be idiots.

You forgot the apostrophe in don't.

Vandalism
(n.) The spirit or conduct of the Vandals; ferocious cruelty; hostility to the arts and literature, or willful destruction or defacement of their monuments.



It would be a stretch to call signing one's name on a basket pole vandalism based on that definition. If anything, you're creating a monument, not destroying one.

You may find the practice of marking an ace boorish, and I'd generally agree. But when it's kept to name and date, in marker, on the pole of a basket, it's not even in the same league as some of the other behaviors that have been mentioned here.

Littering, violent or aggressive behavior, outright vandalism (like knocking over trash cans or breaking trees), and the like, are things that will make us very unpopular in public places. Thanks, those of you who are so passionate about stopping these behaviors. But signing basket poles is not the same thing, and it's a waste of effort to treat it as such.

I've never heard of a skate park being torn down because its ramps were covered with graffiti.

Hey now, don't pigeon hole these people as pot smokers or beer drinkers when it is obvious they are idiots. Without the pot and beer these people would still be idiots.



Amen.

I do enjoy hanging a broken piece of plastic from the tree that took it from me?

I believe I'm a pathological litterbug.

Funny I police my cigarette butts (which would "prolly" breakdown faster than plastic) but leave chards of disc all over?

Not a sermon....just a thought.

MS

And Rhett_So _Cal I sent you an message...are you not interested?

But signing basket poles is not the same thing, and it's a waste of effort to treat it as such.




We've already been through this. Read the thread. Nobody wants to see your name on the pole. It�s ugly and trashy. You do not have the right to deface public property. Jeeze, if you were caught doing something like that in NC you would be publicly flogged.

But signing basket poles is not the same thing, and it's a waste of effort to treat it as such.




We've already been through this. Read the thread. Nobody wants to see your name on the pole. It�s ugly and trashy. You do not have the right to deface public property. Jeeze, if you were caught doing something like that in NC you would be publicly flogged.



I did read the thread. Every word of it. Every post where you called someone an idiot for expressing an opinion, every time you took a facetious comment at face value and fired off a nasty response . . . and yet I haven't seen you address this issue.

And if you'd read my post carefully, you'd see that nowhere do I assert a right to deface public property. In fact, you might even notice that I find the practice of signing basket poles distasteful.

I disagree boru. I think he has addressed the issue quite well. His posts are not ambiguous like yours. Are you condoning the graffiti on baskets or not? You say its distasteful but its not vandalism? Maybe you need to reread the thread carefully. If I saw someone defacing (writing on) a pole at one of the courses I play I would call the cops and I think the parks and rec would treat it as vandalism.

If I saw someone defacing (writing on) a pole at one of the courses I play I would call the cops and I think the parks and rec would treat it as vandalism.



I knew it. You are a d*ck. :D
and a coward :D

It would be a stretch to call signing one's name on a basket pole vandalism based on that definition. If anything, you're creating a monument, not destroying one.


After re-reading the definition posted earlier I agree that it was not the best one possible to illustrate my point, please accept this more complete definition:

Vandalism is the willful or malicious destruction, injury, disfigurement, or defacement of any public
or private property, real or personal, without consent of the owner or person having control.


You may find the practice of marking an ace boorish, and I'd generally agree. But when it's kept to name and date, in marker, on the pole of a basket, it's not even in the same league as some of the other behaviors that have been mentioned here.


A very gray area, I read this as, "it's bad, but not as bad as some other stuff" does this make it an okay practice?



Littering, violent or aggressive behavior, outright vandalism (like knocking over trash cans or breaking trees), and the like, are things that will make us very unpopular in public places.


So, OUTRIGHT vandalism would make "us" unpopular, but small or discrete vandalism won't? I don't agree.


Thanks, those of you who are so passionate about stopping these behaviors. But signing basket poles is not the same thing, and it's a waste of effort to treat it as such.

I've never heard of a skate park being torn down because its ramps were covered with graffiti.


Most skate parks have Rules and Regulations and in the 5 different ones I just looked up - they all include a line very similar to the following:
5. No smoking, alcohol, drugs, profanity, littering or graffiti.

Graffiti may not close a skate park, but it is not condoned there either - most times it will be removed or painted over regularly if the problems persist.

I find no wasted effort in answering the question posed by this thread and that answer is....

No. It is NOT okay to vandalize with graffiti.

Please don't take this post as a violent attack, mearly enlightenment :)


Hey now, don't pigeon hole these people as pot smokers or beer drinkers when it is obvious they are idiots. Without the pot and beer these people would still be idiots.


AMEN!

No need for the cops to get involved. That is taking it to far. Just let the person know how you and others in the area feel about it. If that person wants to act like an [*****] then deal with it yourself or let others in your disc golf community know. Just say no to cops.

I was just making a point there discnerd. Who thinks parks and rec would consider it vandalism? I wouldn't really call the cops. I wouldn't have to because nobody around here is stupid enough to do something like that. We care about our courses. Thank GOD we don't have to deal with this here!

:D

If most people in this board think it is vandalism then it isn't too far of a strech to think that the park and rec. department might also consider it vandalism. As far as my previous comment, I wasn't trying to jump on you I just get jumpy when the cops get brought up... and no, i've never been arested or in jail. ;)

I disagree boru. I think he has addressed the issue quite well. His posts are not ambiguous like yours. Are you condoning the graffiti on baskets or not? You say its distasteful but its not vandalism? Maybe you need to reread the thread carefully. If I saw someone defacing (writing on) a pole at one of the courses I play I would call the cops and I think the parks and rec would treat it as vandalism.



Unambiguously stating an opinion is not the same as addressing an issue. In real terms, there are vast differences between signing a basket pole and some of the other things that have come up here. As an analogy, some people see all drug offenses as equal. They believe that smoking pot should carry the same penalties as running a crack lab. Of course, if we gave everyone busted for low-level marijuana possession 20 years to life, the solution would quickly become far worse than the social problem it was intended to solve. We run the same risk here. For instance:


Jeeze, if you were caught doing something like that in NC you would be publicly flogged.



That sounds like he advocates physical violence against people who sign their aces. Now, if you come across someone trashing a course, breaking stuff, destroying trees, lighting fires, or the like, and that person didn't respond to your requests to stop, then you would be justified in physically restraining them from doing more damage. Or calling the proper authorities. But physically assaulting someone for writing their name on a basket pole, or even screaming at them, is massive overkill. And it would be far worse for our image than the problem it's trying to stop.

I find no wasted effort in answering the question posed by this thread and that answer is....

No. It is NOT okay to vandalize with graffiti.



I don't think vandalism is ok either. But I don't think signing off on an ace is necessarily vandalism. There are clearly parts of the country where it's a commonly accepted practice. And if it's part of a region's disc golf culture, then you should respect that. Just like you'd want them to respect your home course by not signing their name after an ace.



Hey now, don't pigeon hole these people as pot smokers or beer drinkers when it is obvious they are idiots. Without the pot and beer these people would still be idiots.


AMEN!

[/QUOTE]

Well, we definitely agree on that one!

Thank you boru. I also would never write my name on a pole at a course where i had not seen names already written or where it was not common practice. IE if i ace at the Memorial where it is not common practice then there is no way in hell i am going to write on the pole of that basket. I will simply write it on my disc as my 1st tournament ACE collect some or all of the ACE pool and be on my merry way. On the other hand if you am shooting at Cass Benton where this sort of thing is done, and you hit an ACE feel free to sign away. I believe it is a matter of opinion and location. Calling the cops would be completly out of hand as would yelling at someone or anything of the sort, other than asking them to please not do that again. Still going with the ACE sign on every hole or and ACE board at the 1st Tee being the best alternative to marking up poles. Vandalism it may very well be, but if it doesnt offend anyone that plays the course on a regular basis and is sometimes suggested. Then i find no harm it signing a pole and only a pole when one hits an ace.

I think this sums up what i have to say. If you have any questions feel free to ask away.

This business of marking the tee sign is so lame on 2 levels:

1. It's vandalism, pure and simple. Regardless of what the content is, it's just inviting more people to add their own little messages to the sign. It's no different than the geniuses adding the two-zero to Hole 4 that I see in this neck of the woods.

2. Nothing is more lame than hearing people brag about their aces. I mean, it's bad enough having to listen to the stories in person, but having to relive them every time I look at a tee sign is just ponderous.

I am not talking about tee signs if you read my post. I am talking about steel poles surrounded by usually 24 chains and a basket. I agree that tee signs is trashy and lame.
So if you were responding to what i had to say please have a relative responce to what it was that i said.
Thanks /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Glad none of you guys live in MN

good god, discpimp! you must have some pent up aggression. if you read the thread topic it says "tee sign."
and besides, this thread don't revolve 'round you.

oh yeah. lemme get on topic. signing signs or poles or discs or car hoods or score cards is BAD! oooooo, but spray painting disc golf conquests on clubhouses.... vandalicious.

are we a disfuntional family are what,wait a minute i think i see jerry springer coming down the thread.in the words of a great american (rodney king) can't we all just get along?????

I think there are two maybe three people on this forum that think its ok to sign somewhere on the course about their ace. There's one ambiguous poster that won't say either or. Or maybe he thinks it is and it isn't ok.

Anyway I propose that we stop entertaining them with logical answers like "defacing public property is vandalism". LOL... I say we just let them argue amongst themselves and just sit back and laugh at some of the stupid stuff they say to try to justify breaking the law and ruining dg courses.

There are clearly parts of the country where it's a commonly accepted practice.



I had not thought of it that way and I think it might be kinda cool to ace at a course where signing your ace is an encouraged practice by the local club/course pro/owner. Still working on that ace :p


And if it's part of a region's disc golf culture, then you should respect that. Just like you'd want them to respect your home course by not signing their name after an ace.



We agree again :D

pimpman says:
"IE if i ace at the Memorial where it is not common practice then there is no way in hell i am going to write on the pole of that basket. I will simply write it on my disc as my 1st tournament ACE collect some or all of the ACE pool and be on my merry way."

sorry...you're in arizona so no ace pool and no markings on the poles at roller del camino either so "IF" you ace there you'll have to mark it on your disc and hope the players on your card know about 51 or you'll be lucky to get anything....look forward to seeing you there

being someone who pretty much hates grafitti of any type out on the course, and has been to Cass Benneton, I gotta say, you have some of the worst grafitti artists of anywhere! I gotta think what hole it is, I want to say 5 or 6, when you hike up the hill and there is the bench before the bare sideslope hole with many small trees around the basket.... If I were you guys I would replace that picnic table, it is horribly vandalized. I probably saw pimp on there, from before he was mr. yes sir of the messageboard.

Kilborne has a bunch of stupid pot related grafitti on the tee signs, and some sharpied the vinyl fairway design into a spliff out at Reedy Creek. These are the people I really hate. Kids play at these courses. The morons who do this shtuff aggravate me so.

As for signing the pole, It may be a stupid galvanised pole to you, but it represents the efforts of a lot of people raising money or attending boring park committee meetings and then the hours and hours of work spent to get said course in the ground. Anything that degrades the course is insulting the people that put the effort in to put the course in the ground. So you got an ace, big deal. You aren't the first, you won't be the last.... well, if you disrespect the course enough to get it pulled.

Any personal scribblings on a course will simply open the floodgates to all the wanna be taggers to start tagging trees, benches, tee signs, baskets, and whatnot. You shouldn't have any reason to pull a sharpie out outside of your car anyway....

I agree with you about the benches and tee signs and CASS BENTON, they are trashed by some casual [*****] that doesnt like some of the guys i play with. That is horse sh1t and should not happen at any course. I think whoever did the graffiti on the signs and benches and picnic tables is an ACEhole. And no you NEVER saw my name on any picnic table or sign out there. Only on number 15's basket where i scored my first ACE and number 8 where i scored my second and "prolly" best ACE ill ever have. So with that said. The graffiti and tagging of signs and benches and tees and trees and garbage cans and whatever else you sign other then the pole of a hole is stupid and i do not advocate it in any way. All im saying is if you must sign something and it is ok to do so at the course you are playin then sign the pole and only the pole. I myself will not do this anymore since i know that is Pisses some people off. Sorry to have offended you in the past. I still dont give a rats ***** if you sign the metal pole inside some chains that gets F***ed up anyway by discs and dirt. The ACE board and ACE sign are still the best ideas on this thread.
By the way its Benton not Benneton.
And if you ever are up here and want to shoot just look me up im always down to play at my home course. And if you get an ACE feel free to sign away. You wont get publicly flogged or harassed in any way. Ill even let you use my sharpie as long as its on the pole. LMAO

Yes, marking on a tee sign is vandalism!
Use the back of your disc. Have witnesses sign it! (no witness, it don't count)

This discussion that was initiated by Mark Andrews started with me. The signs of our course has had its share of vandalism, and we want it to stop.

I was glad that the response thus far has reinforced my concerns that marking aces on the back of tee signs is bad practice. 65% of all replys to the votes indicate it is vandalism, which it is.

Thank you all for participating in this discussion, perhaps there will be a bit less graffiti on our historic park, and on courses worldwide if people consider all the points that were stated in these posts.

Disc on

charley radtke

Thank you girlie and others for softening your stance on this issue. Even though I have seen it country wide, in some areas it is considered tagging, some it is not. I think that this thread has brought forth good ideas. On Monday I will be talking to the Parks Dept. about this issue and if they have a problem with it, I as the Course Pro have to also.

There are clearly parts of the country where it's a commonly accepted practice.



I had not thought of it that way and I think it might be kinda cool to ace at a course where signing your ace is an encouraged practice by the local club/course pro/owner. Still working on that ace :p


And if it's part of a region's disc golf culture, then you should respect that. Just like you'd want them to respect your home course by not signing their name after an ace.



We agree again :D



Omigosh, this is exactly what I said the first day this thread came on the board, sheesh...
http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=130459&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=3&vc=1
There is this thing called culture that a lot of ignorant people don't seem to be able to understand, and they think it is bad and destroying society. I am getting quite annoyed at people like Team_Bofa who refuse to believe that "anyone" likes to see aces written on tee signs, what was his exact quote...

"We've already been through this. Read the thread. Nobody wants to see your name on the pole."

You are the idiot that needs to read the whole thread buddy. Ok, read this very carefully...I WANT TO SEE NAMES ON POLES, if you think I am an idiot, that is fine, but I am still "somone" with an opinion, so please stop saying that everyone agrees with you, because they don't! If they did, this thread wouldn't exist in the first place. Get over yourself and pull your ignorant head out my friend.

Culture does not equal BAD!

Someplaces it isn't part of the culture to perform this activity, that's fine, chill people. In other places, it is a tradition, and if you've never "seen" it, congratulations, I have, and it didn't bother me because I understood it.

And for all you yahoos that are about to jump me and flog me (if you ever tried such a thing, the consequences would be very great) I don't even sign my name when I ace, so chill out.

Sorry dude... thread's over. Are you even a PDGA member?

Hey Mark, quite the storm you started here!

We were talking about this at Dretzka yesterday. The 'tradition' at Parkside, as you are aware, has been to sign aces on the tee sign post. Seemed pretty good at the time, but trying ot keep it 'clean', let alone just contained to the tee sign post, starts to be a problem. The thought yesterday was that in retrospect, it may have been better not to start the practice in the first place, and that its going to be hard to change the culture once its been started.

Hope things are well at Saukville! I think things will be easier for you in the long run if you don't encourage the practice. Even with designated signing areas, keeping it limited to these areas will be a challenge. The content issues only add to the difficulty.

Hey ryang..
Take chill pill, dude! Don't get yer panties in wad over signing a basket. I have 43 aces and I have never signed anything but the plastic that went in! But "when in Rome, do as the Romans".
If it makes someone feel better to sign a pole, then sign a pole! In my opinion, it's ugly. ( it has nuttin to do with "culture") /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
I'm gonna go throw some flat plastic and try to make #44!!

We have this problem in Michigan. It looks really bad and it's silly. Esp. when some mullet writes "70 ft. putt" on a basket, yes I've seen this (more than once).
I came up with a solution to this problem for 2 of our courses in Grand Rapids. We installed 1' x 2' boards on the back of the tee signs for people to sign. It seems to be doing the trick.

as a player that has played in grand rapids and cleaned up brewer from all the glass and bottle caps, i believe you should never give them a place to sign. all you have done by doing this to tell them its ok. so now when they play another course they will sign any where they feel. this is graffiti and should be stopped. i had a run in with a player in chicago for doing this on a course that we just bought new signage for and his answer was, well everyone else does it. stop the graffiti before it gets out of control. if you must have a public acknowledgement of your ace then take a picture with your friends and post in on the club board at your course. :o

I am in total agreement here about the silly nature of signing your name to aces. And I want to go on record to say that it IS NOT common practice in Wisconsin as you may have been led to believe. I have asked several "course pros" at other courses in the state, and they are all opposed to the idea of it, and certainly don't "encourage it" as one person from Wisconsin boasted. Does it happen, yes. Does it happen by players that frequent the course, no. Even the places that at one time did condone it, they now regret it. Any course that does have multitudes of names written should consider moving the pin, perhaps it is TOO EASY! That is actually the only real benefit that I can see to this insane practice.

Check your egos and your Sharpies at the door please.

Allow me to retract my previous comment on basket signing.
Radke is correct. NEVER sign a post or basket, even if it makes you "feel good"! (i must have had a liberal moment) It's graffitti and makes your course look cheap. In my 15 yrs. of playing, I have never seen someone on my card, or in a friendly round for that matter, write on anything but a disc when an ace was made. Most of the grffitti comes from the after work with a sixpack and 3 beatup disks in a plastic sack crowd. :mad:
Correct again, Radtke. The basket grffitti I have seen are on holes that ARE too easy! Never seen it on 400+ footers. :D
If you want someone to know you made an ace, whup out the disc an' show 'em the signatures. And remember, "it ain't an ace unless ya got witnesses" so get them names! :D
kingrat

Lame assed thread.

take those old beat up discs out of that plastic bag, steve!
didn't mean to hurt your feelers....

I have been lurking this website for a long time now and decided to finally register. I have only been playing DG for about 1.5 years now. I started playing at the course that brought up this whole topic in the first place, of which Radtke is the course pro.

Now at a lot of the easier courses I have been too, there are alsways signs with marked aces. To a new player this kind of gives people the wrong idea. There are courses, that if I ace'd, I would not mark the sign. For instance, I had an ace at UW-Parkside and did not mark the sign because they had just got brand new signs. I did sign an ace at the course that Radtke runs and to me it has never been about "bragging": rights or is it my huge ego... It is something that I always thought was more common place.

What have I learned from reading this thread? Just that some courses are fine with it and others are not. I also have seen that a lot of people are quick to judge the act as vandalism, which I can see it being. But to some courses, it is almost part of their dg culture. On a couple courses that I have had aces on I was encouraged by other players around me to sign the back of the tee sign.

Overall I think that courses perhaps with this "problem" should maybe put up something about it on their kiosk along the lines of saying that the practice is not allowed. Other solutions would include having a seperate ace sign for holes that are easily ace'able. Since I started playing, surrounded by this, it was a hard thing for me to grasp as to why its wrong but I am openminded enough to understand that its not as common as I was led to believe.

That is all I have to say, want to say, need to say, and will say.

Ok, first I have to admit that I've done this once. I had been playing for less than a year and was pretty excited about the ace. It probably would not have crossed my mind had there not already been a name on the sign. So I thought this was an ok thing to do. Now that I'm a vet..haha...of 1 1/2 years I know how much money, time, and effort go into keeping courses looking nice. Tee signs aren't cheap and I've seen tons of them vandalized in many ways. Incuding torched ones on my home course. Now this course doesn't even have the tees signs in anymore. I'm sure most of you would agree that tee signs are really nice to have especially if you haven't played the course before. Looking back I'm a bit embarrassed that I did it and can say I'd never do it again. I know I wouldnt' want someone writing on them if it was my money that paid for it. So in short, I would say don't write on them. Man...am I getting a conscience???? :p

welcome to the Disc BORED Mark..

Yes.

I suggest if someone in your group does this, that everyone else be allowed to use the same sharpie and sign the offending players forehead (prior to ejecting him/her from the event and banning them from the course).

Aces are great things. Letting folks know about them is a great thing. Doing so by defacing our courses is about the worst possible way of doing it.

I like 99% of the folks I meet on courses, but ones that litter, break or deface the course in anyway at all are definitely on my ****list.

welcome to the Disc BORED Mark..



Thank you


Neonnoodle - What about if the course pro is alright with recording aces on tee signs? I think there are some exceptions where it is not vandalism.

Vandalism is the willful or malicious destruction, injury, disfigurement, or defacement of any public or private property, real or personal, without consent of the owner or person having control.




I suppose if the course pro is "alright" with marking tee signs with aces - the course pro could be a "person having control" but usually not the "owner" - that would skirt around the definition provided of vandalism. So there may be some times out there where/when marking the course with your ace is not vandalism... but, I still support the leave no trace ethic.

I believe we heard from a course pro earlier on this thread who indicated that even though marking aces is commonplace at "his" course - it is not an encouraged practice. But all of this is pretty evident from reading the entirety of this thread...

What are you looking for? An admission from the noodle that in some instances it may be okay to tag a course with your ace mark? Start holding your breath :D

What are you looking for? An admission from the noodle that in some instances it may be okay to tag a course with your ace mark? Start holding your breath :D



No not at all. :) I guess my reasoning there is if the course pro says its ok I would assume he would have gotten an answer to whomever he answers to may it be the park director or whatnot. In this case, with my local course. Mark Andrews is the course pro and if he runs it through the park director and they have a problem with it, Mark has said that he too will have to have a problem with it.

You are right, the course pro is not "the owner" however they usually have direct communication with the people whom are in charge of the location the course is on. Just a lot of personal opinions in here and no one can really ask that they change their opinions on an issue.

Like I said I see both sides to it, but will I mark my aces in the future? Most likely not. I think the "excitement" factor of the ace is still there for me but after the first few aces I had, I did not feel the need to celebrate the fact as much .

And I want to go on record to say that it IS NOT common practice in Wisconsin as you may have been led to believe. I have asked several "course pros" at other courses in the state, and they are all opposed to the idea of it, and certainly don't "encourage it" as one person from Wisconsin boasted.


This comes from a rec. player that does not tour the state or even participate in local tournaments or leagues. I doubt he could even name 4 course pros in this state let alone done his survey of their course outlook. To let the rest of you know in this forum, Charlie has flipp-flopped on many of his convictions and diplomacy in this matter. Charlie, how common of a practice is it that you leave town and play outside of your noon games with your buddies?
Oh yeah, Girlie, Where do you get these definitions that you hold to be true? I am not saying that they are incorrect, I would just like to know.

Most of the courses I have played are public. That means the taxpayers own them.(yes, I know we ALL are taxpayers) Those are the only ones I've seen with graffitti on posts and baskets. Of the 3 private courses I play, I see no writing. And, I GUARANTEE, that if anyone is found to be destructive (that icludes graffitti) there, you will, not so quietly, be asked to leave and not return!
Writing on baskets is no different than writing on park benches, restroom walls, etc. Treat your course like it's your house. Keep it clean so folks will be impressed when they visit. We POSITIVE impressions for discgolf.
Let's hear from you private course owners! Tell us what YOU think.

The only time I ever saw ace signatures was at Pohick Bay last November. It's a fairly short course, and the first hole is pretty much a wide open shot. When I holed out I noticed a couple of signatures for aces on the back of the number plate on the basket. My reaction was how cheesy since A.) it simply looked bad in the great outdoors, and B.) it was a pretty simple hole. While it is great to get an ace, I think to much is made of it. I'd rather have a big rating over a handful of aces any day.

I found the definitions I used for illustration purposes with a simple google search on the WWW :)

Peas.

If it's a legitimate Ace, I don't have a problem w/ it...
Food for thought: What about an official way of marking the sign...? Like drop a form in a box somewhere on the course, for the course pro to verify w/ witnesses and if legit... be added on the basket somehow...Dog Tags off the bottom of the basket would be cool or have a bulletin board hall of fame! Sort of hard to verify the ace in some cases...
I need an ace Ty

Second Thought: I don't really care to see marking's on the basket top, I guess I just got used to it at Bowling Green, OH's Carter Park... A bulletin board's the best bet!

actually it is narcissism *and* vandalism and whoever engages in it lacks self-awareness :p

Serious thread diving!

I don't think vandalism is ok either. But I don't think signing off on an ace is necessarily vandalism. There are clearly parts of the country where it's a commonly accepted practice. And if it's part of a region's disc golf culture, then you should respect that. Just like you'd want them to respect your home course by not signing their name after an ace.


This is the paragraph, out of four pages of thread, that actually made sense. The only paragraph. When I'm somewhere that obviously condones and encourages this practice (all three of the local TADGA courses, and most, if not all, of the courses in the region for that matter) I will sign the pole. At our three local courses this has not spread to tee signs, or other signs, or anything. It has been contained to the poles. Our most played course, Ottawa Park, gets a TON of use, is in the middle of the city, next to a HS and a College, and on the border of what would be called the "ghetto." Despite all the other forms of vandalizing that occur, this is one thing that has not spread in a negative way.

If I'm somewhere else, like Highbridge Hills in Wisconsin, where it is private property and is discouraged I don't sign the pole. But around here? It is. Thats how it is. It isn't vandalizing, it is a common act encouraged by our local club.


-Chris.

does your club own the hardware? if not, then they are encouraging vandalism of park property.

if i catch anyone writing anything on any of the equipment/signs/etc at any of our courses, public or private, i will put my foot so far up their [censored] that they taste shoe leather.

SO if I take a 6 do I get to sign the pole/tee sign? cuz that happened too!!!

if you need to dwell on your success, put the date, hole info, and witnesses signature on your disc and hang it on your wall... thats what us yinzers do around here. or, like the idiots that we are, we'll continue to throw the disc and lose it into the quagmire known as the pond on 15 at the DLDGC. either way, YOU know you got it. thats all that matters. dont need to clutter up your course just to try and make everyone else know.

and its too bad I dont have one yet to gloat about. soon enough I'm told. not soon enough for me.

Thats why I have a chainstar that I let Kruse borrow for a tournament at Ottawa that now has a name scribbled on it. Who signs a temporary hole anyway. And the hole looks totally different when the basket is sitting in my back yard.

Discgolfers should respect all property, if you didn't pay for it don't put your name on it.

I really can't believe how pervasive this is within the PDGA community. I thought it was only casuals who did this. Hearing people try to justify this is crazy!!!

It looks dumb on any course I've ever seen it.
I can't see any park authority thinking it was a GOOD idea.
Even if you "think" its okay on your courses, casuals may spread it to other courses or places where it is not acceptable (see kwill's post).

vandalism is just that !
i get irritated when i'm setting up to putt and see that "xxxx"on the number plates as well. if any of those vandals were made to do park maintenance they might think twice before defacing property that was not there own.
just write the ace info on the disc that way the player can either save that info or show it off to their buddys each time they play.

I aced a hole today. Wrote my name on the pole with a sharpie I got from one of the park workers making sure the course is ready for the re-opening tournament in a couple of weeks. One of the other pros in the area did it as well, two rounds later. Its just what we do around here. You can do it in our community, we just won't do it in yours. Simple as that.

biscoe - unsure of how that works exactly, we bought the baskets, concrete for tees, all of the stuff that goes into the course. Did all the labor on it. But it is installed on public park land. I know that on at LEAST one of them we have permission to take the baskets to install elsewhere if the park has to be pulled for any reason.

The tee signs at our local course were paid for by donations from sponsors, who received a small advertising space on the sign. I don't think those sponsors would want to have the sign they paid for defaced. They might not want to sponsor anything for us in the future.

I think signing the pole makes more sense, if you feel you must do something. Why don't you just write on your disc and get sigs of witnesses?

yes

So is tagging wet concrete.

well said.

at best it is narcissistic bad form and at worst it is illegal vandalism. whether a lot of people do it or not should not be the test used to assess whether something is acceptable or unacceptable. there are a lot lof things a lot of 'locals' have done in history that later turned out to be pretty unevolved.

what would Climo do? is a more acceptable PDGA player litmus test. ;)

I hereby cast a 7-year aceless curse on any who prevents this thread from drifting back to the murky depths from which it came. The "goody-goods" and the "crumb-bums" will argue about this to no end, otherwise. KaBloink!

I aced a hole today. Wrote my name on the pole with a sharpie I got from one of the park workers making sure the course is ready for the re-opening tournament in a couple of weeks. One of the other pros in the area did it as well, two rounds later. Its just what we do around here. You can do it in our community, we just won't do it in yours. Simple as that.

biscoe - unsure of how that works exactly, we bought the baskets, concrete for tees, all of the stuff that goes into the course. Did all the labor on it. But it is installed on public park land. I know that on at LEAST one of them we have permission to take the baskets to install elsewhere if the park has to be pulled for any reason.



Fantastic Cwoj! And what happens when casuals from your area come to my area and start signing our baskets? Would you like to speak to the parks department, clean off the baskets, etc.?

Its not as "simple as that".

It is vandalism, and it's not necessary. I understand some people do mark stuff up at the parks they play, I and most of my friends don't like seeing it. It's like carrying glass bottles around the course. (That's a whole other issue, I know.)

It is vandalism, and it's not necessary.



the TDSA has an ace page on the website, all it takes is an e-mail to the webmaster and your ace is posted.

http://www.tulsadiscsports.org/aceclub.html

what would Climo do? is a more acceptable PDGA player litmus test. ;)



better yet, let's make that "what would Juliana Korver do?" ;)

Its fine unless there is no room for me to write my name all over it. At that point it is useless.

I aced a hole today. Wrote my name on the pole with a sharpie I got from one of the park workers making sure the course is ready for the re-opening tournament in a couple of weeks. One of the other pros in the area did it as well, two rounds later. Its just what we do around here. You can do it in our community, we just won't do it in yours. Simple as that.

biscoe - unsure of how that works exactly, we bought the baskets, concrete for tees, all of the stuff that goes into the course. Did all the labor on it. But it is installed on public park land. I know that on at LEAST one of them we have permission to take the baskets to install elsewhere if the park has to be pulled for any reason.



Fantastic Cwoj! And what happens when casuals from your area come to my area and start signing our baskets? Would you like to speak to the parks department, clean off the baskets, etc.?

Its not as "simple as that".


Um... what we do in other peoples' communities is expressed in my post. Having too much fun telling me I'm stupid for following my community's customs to actually read what my post says?

I read exactly what your post said. Can you ensure that this practice that exists in your community won't spread to others who find it unacceptable?

Better yet, answer this question:

What BENEFIT does this practice give us (other than the obvious selfish ego/bragging rights)? I can and have listed some of the harms that seem quite evident to me.



It seems like littering is a "tradition" on a lot of courses. If others do it, we must follow or we would be breaking tradition. I guess I'll keep breaking the mold.