I tried putting this message on an old thread, but it did not show up in new messages. So here is what I previously posted:

HELP!!!! I've been doing my research on trying to find the correct type of aviar to purchase for driving. It looks like I need a stiff big-bead aviar rather than the small bead "putt and approach aviar." But later I read that the soft aviar X is the only big bead available at this time. Now, I see on a web site that the new pro-line aviar is a big bead aviar in the putt and approach mold???!!!!! Can someone refer me to correct aviar for driving and a web site that shows the particular kind of aviar I'm looking for? Your help is greatly appreciated!!

I heard the "Aviar Driver" discs were best for distance.

Hamm, yes they are. They are also refered to as Big Bead Aviars.

I think Big Beads are available now.

Personally- I use plain old DX bottomstamps I think the control is better and just add more hyser with age for real long shots.I had the grid stamp Avair but didnt care for it as much.Also use a beadless KC for straight shots at long distance.

Otherwise, grab a Challenger. You can drive the poop outta those things. Very grippy too.

MINI AVIAR!!!!!!!!!

challenger is an Aviar.

Wizodd!

It looks like I need a stiff big-bead aviar...

that is the wizard right there, get a firm one

I actually did a Aviar driver test some time back.
Please look at previous threads.
How far are you looking to drive your Aviar?
300 feet? 350 feet?
Good technique is key here as well as a smooth release. Lots of practice.
Good luck and don't give up http://www.pdga.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

KC Aviar for a good stiff short driver.

Aviar x-outs, 145-150g
They fly straight, forever!

I threw a 10 timer a good 450 feet or so out at Renny the other day, straight as a laser... it was downhill, but man, it went for EVER.

pretty beat 10 timer gets my nod.

Champion Aviar (big bead) in the clear plastic is the shiznit! I *love* this disc! More float than the KC, not too understable! I have been surprising people when I pull out the Aviar for 320' and under shots!

I throw the crap out of Aviar X. They are stable enough to really rip. Any stable putter will do though, its really about technique when it comes to driving the putter.

i hate champion aviars

Technique is the key. Blunt edged discs need more height and handle nose-up style better. A long distance Aviar shot looks like a big high turnover - just a straighter curve than drivers. Also, more of a finger release is needed because of the deep rim. It's definitely a different feel than throwing drivers. You may also find that you don't need to grip it as tightly. Drivers allow you to keep your grip tight and pinched beyond the release. They fly slower so don't try to bomb them - put more energy into the spin. Where I use a stiff wrist for drivers, the Aviar seems to come out best with some wrist movement (still with stiffness).
The softer plastics allow me to grip better for distance, however, the stiffer "driver plastic" is definitely more overstable.

Chief!

I still have a stash of CE Aviars and always have one in my bag for approach shots, Michael's description of how to throw vs a driver throw is superb. I also throw the San Marino Rocs I own using that technique. I now enjoy putting and upshots with the Champion Aviar. The fact that it is fat and understable means I can give it a healthy tug (never with annie unless I want a left turn) without worrying about it going too far.

Which CE Aviar are you talking about? The new ones seem completly different than the old ones.I do have one with no bead and is great for all types of approach,the BB is not my friend.

The scoop on Aviars as I've been able to put it together:

<TABLE BORDER=1><TR><TD>Type Aviar</TD><TD>Marking</TD><TD>Bead</TD><TD>Mold</TD><TD>Stiffness (1 is stiffest)</TD><TD>Stability: high / med / low speeds </TD></TR><TR><TD>1. Putt &amp; Approach</TD><TD>basket pic</TD><TD>small</TD><TD>putter</TD><TD>4. regular</TD><TD>slightly understable / stable / fairly stable </TD></TR><TR><TD>2. Glow</TD><TD>Glow</TD><TD>small</TD><TD>putter</TD><TD>5. soft</TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD>3. Classic </TD><TD>grid</TD><TD>small</TD><TD>putter</TD><TD>2. stiffer</TD><TD>--- / --- / straight flying </TD></TR><TR><TD>4. KC Pro</TD><TD>KC</TD><TD>big</TD><TD>driver</TD><TD>1. stiffest</TD><TD>--- / --- / overstable </TD></TR><TR><TD>5. JK Pro, Aviar-X</TD><TD>JK</TD><TD>big</TD><TD>driver</TD><TD>6. softer</TD><TD>straightest, stable / stable / overstable </TD></TR><TR><TD>6. CE</TD><TD>CE</TD><TD>small</TD><TD></TD><TD>3. stiff</TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD>(7. Omega SS)</TD><TD>SS</TD><TD>small</TD><TD>putter</TD><TD>7. softest</TD><TD>slightly understable / stable / fairly stable </TD></TR><TR><TD>(8. Omega Q)</TD><TD>Q</TD><TD>small</TD><TD>putter</TD><TD>3. stiff</TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD>9. Champion</TD><TD>Champion</TD><TD>big</TD><TD>putter</TD><TD></TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>

Plus more info from Dave Dunipace:
Aviar Drivers
Big bead, grid pattern, stiffer plastic. Also called the �Big bead�. Made with the driver mold. �All Aviar drivers are the X mold now.� The �bead� at the bottom of the rim is bigger. �Very stable and predictable at high and medium speeds, but tend to be a little overstable at low speeds.� (Dave D.) The grid pattern Aviar used to be a driver with big bead and was considered a driver Aviar.

For more infor also see the "Aviars" thread at http://www.pdga.com/discus/messages/50/6422.html?

Earlier in this thread some buffoon posted "challenger is an aviar." I have been hearing this brand of pro-Innova, anti-Discraft/Gateway BS for years, but this is the most ridiculous untrue statement I have ever heard. A challenger is nothing like an aviar, except maybe that they are both designed for putting. A challenger has a relatively square rim profile (you can view cross-sections of discraft discs at discraft.com), in contrast to the aviar which has a much more triangular rim (similar to the discraft magnet) Anyone who objectively picked up both of these discs would come to the conclusion that the challenger is not at all like an aviar. Except these biased pro-Innova zealots who love to make claims about how everyone else is just copying Innova.

I`m the buffoon. You might want to switch to decaf.

Nice troll, George.

Like discrap does`nt copy Innova. Who`s patent # do you think is on the bottom?

Not for long.

Listen here whoever said that the aviar and the challenger arent the same disc is smoking something far to powerfull for human use and should quit talking out of his a@# and pick up a KC aviar and a D challenger and look at them and throw them and then tell me they are not the same disc and the aviar is more like a magnet comment was the most asinine thing i have ever heard
have you ever held both these discs or looked at the profile and the rim because if you had you would know they arent even close

By the way Discraft and Innova both my Quality products that i am proud to carry in my bag

The buzz is the Bomb

The Challenger was just the aviar designed for Cam Todd when he switched to discraft. "Challenger" was also the name of the RV he was crusing in at the time and they decided to name the disc after the RV. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Discraft definetely produces their own version of Innova discs, and I don't know about you guys, but I'm very happy with this. The Wasp, Buzz, Crush, Flash, and Challenger are all great discs that someone who has been throwing Innova for years can pick up and be comfortable with right away. All these Discraft versions work a little different than their Innova counterparts, but they still share the same basic flights lines and this makes them very predictable and useful. This does not reflect poorly on Discraft because Innova already had a well-established market when they emerged onto the scene. When you are an underdog trying to gain some market share against what was previously a monopoly you have to make products that appeal to the consumers of that leading company to even stay in business and compete. The same could be said about Gateway. The Wizard is a disc that certainly appeals to Aviar users, and I would guess this is their best selling disc. It is not copying or ripping off, it is simply how the game is played in our culture.

The Wizard is a disc that certainly appeals to Aviar users, and I would guess this is their best selling disc. It is not copying or ripping off, it is simply how the game is played in our culture.



And remember one important thing... with retooling comes a better putter.

Even though I ALWAYS putt with a Wizard and would never think of using anything else, I haven't had success with them as a driver. The Challenger has worked good for me in the past, but since I use my Wizard for anything 200' and in, and I can only really throw a challenger 250' accurately, I usually just choke up on my ROC for anything longer than 200'.

I CAN throw my wizard about 300' on an anhyser line, and I usually will if I can get away with it (height), but I haven't been able to get it straight out to 300'. Any tips?

Throw it high with a bit of hyzer. I get mine out to 300' with a bit of hyzer using a loose power grip (about the same grip I use on my roc or cobra) but higher than I'd throw my mids. It pops up and flattens and goes. I cant putt em but they make great short range stable drivers.

Thanks. I've heard that before, but I realised that I usually use a firm grip. Now that I think about it, I've had success with this in the past! Once my back heals up, I'm going out again!!

Take one of each model that you can, and go figure out which one works best for you.

Personally, I like the stiff big beads!

10x

Any KC or BIG bead Aviar will work. I would say the old school Big Beads are the best. They seem to have a bigger bead then the KCs. I could be wrong though cuz i dont throw Innova anymore.

KC 10x.....

10x


I think BS P&A's brand new go along way. Man this is an old thread.