Anybody throw the Beast yet? Is is better than the Valkrie since they claim it is on steroids? Would like to try one at my first tourney if it is as good as Innove claims.

The second I saw it thrown, I wanted one! It hold a line for a long way!
I want a light weight one ASAP

I just received two Beasts a 167g and a 174g, I would highly recommend these from a medium power throwers point of view. They are pretty fast with a slight comeback on the end.

Dave D.
please Send me some and I will give them a Texas PROspective
2741 " b" citation
garfield, tx 78617

I have had one for at least 2 weeks now....they are valks on steroids. They are very fast and they are more stable than the valk.

Vinnie
Switching teams?

tell me this is not true vinnie

you guys know who their for!!! /msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

The Beast felt alot like the Predator. Have the tables turned and #1 is knocking off #2 perhaps???

switch no way!
Ima lovin them new disc John is peddlin now.
yours true highest rated open player in Texas on the Team/msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

Keep dreamin', Phil. There'll be an ultra-wide nosed disc from your manufacturer in about two months. Same as always.

The Beast is for real!! I bested my longest drive by about 60 feet with a throw that didn't feel that good. Once it came out of the "S" it seemed like it sped up. I had 2 giant drives with it today when I wasn't really trying to go big. I love it!!

P.S. mine is 174

I bought the first Beast I found...a yellow 175g with a 2003 Ice Bowl stamp. Threw it yesterday...first throw was weak...second throw hit a tree, dead center, and put a huge gash/hangnail in/on it. So I took my pocket knife...uh, I mean sand paper and cleaned-up the wound, then on my third throw, unleashed th' Beast!! Wow!! A low power shot with a ton of glide...and a near ace on a hole that requires a more direct approach due to a tree protecting the righty-hyzer shot...

I must have some more Beasts!!!! But lighter and in better plastic..............!!!!

Dave!! Pro-Line Beasts!! /msgboard/images/clipart/proud.gif

awesome! slightly overstable,very predictable!

> Dave!! Pro-Line Beasts!!

I second that motion!

is the beast as stable/overstable as an x-talon?

I compared the Beast with an X-Predator out at Mission Trails combo course in San Diego. I found the X-Predator to be more predictable with it's flight than the Beast. I played against Steve Wisecup (89 world champion) in a B tier event last weekend and the Beast wound up drowning in the lake more than once. I hope they made him a few more. I have to get in a little ribbing with my good friend Steve. I am looking forward to the Golden State Open, I got a glimpse of the course layout and I can't wait to give the X-Predator and the Z-Wildcat a shot on the 18 hole par 60 layout at La Mirada. /msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif/msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif/msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

If you want a faster more overstable beast get an EDGE. It has a wider rim, sharper nose, and shallower rim depth. This disc is almost to fast.

Out of the box it is really overstable, but a couple of bends and hits on trees and this disc is amazing. You can throw it two feet off the ground and it will go 350' in the blink of an eye.

It is also the best disc ever made for overhands(thumbers)

Im itching to get an edge!! It's on my to getlist!!

Pro Line Beasts are out! I saw 2 today, a nice red opaquish one and a Suh Weet blue pearl one. Mike Jo drove the red one about 500 ft across a field to park it at the basket for 3. That's a good 500 or so feet. I'll be running, not walking, to DL to get me some.

What disc company makes the edge??? I've been using the z extreme for overhands and really like it. But if the edge is better, I would like to get one

GATEWAY

The Beast is awesome. I saw Brad Hammock park a 450 foot hole 3 times in a row.

This week end I figured out that the beast is one of the best Saturday discs but one of the worst sunday discs, I look forward to seeing how it works on mondays

i realize this is an innova thread--but can someone add to my conclusion that the beast[dx] and x-talon are really similar? i found slightly less distance but more control with the talon. beqst seems faster. pro beast comparisons?

I had a driving contest with a friend. We were throwing nice crushes with our valks and QJs, and threw the Beast a few times. took some time to figure out the right release, but we both drove them the farthest on a nice S turn shot. I would estimate it was about 380' Although I don't know for sure. it was 25 ft past my best Valk drive for sure.

I got a yellow orange pearl and a blue pearl, the yellow really goes well with my xterra!

<FONT COLOR="ff0000">PRO BEAST STINKS!!!!</FONT> I fell in love with the DX model but it turned into a roller after a week and 2 trees, so I was drooling waiting for the Pro line. Much to my dismay, it was a roller on the first throw. Mr. Dunipace, what happened to that fast stable disc that was going to change my game forever? I have a whole trunk load of discs that aren't good for anything but rolling, I don't need another.

That's odd - even with my lighter proline Beast (163 gm), if I throw it perfectly level with tons of spin, it will only S-out drastically, and not roll. Haven't tried the DX yet, but the two prolines I have are certainly more stable than any valk I've thrown.

Dixon, my experience wasn't anything like that at all. I threw the Pro Line Beast several times the other day and really liked it. Its fast, has a lot of glide and seems to be between the JK Valk and the new 11x KC Eagle in stability. That said, it seems so far to be a disc I've been looking for.

Haven't thrown the DX version. I pretty much won't bother with new DX discs, since they'll change so much after usage and since any disc worth throwing (Other than Rocs and Putters) are available (or will be) in Pro Line, CE, Q, Z, etc. I give the Pro Line Beast a big thumbs up.

Dixon try a see-thru Pro Line Beast, they are good overstable drivers unlike the solid colored Pro Line plastic

Dixon, if your pro beasts turn over and roll, you must be an alien or else you need some serious help with your form.

my pro beasts are also less stable than dx

thrrew a pro line beast and it flipped right over,not as good as i thought it was going to be

For this 400' or under thrower, the pro beast is far from flippy. Maybe its just me.

Its not just you, Stan. /msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

I'd be interested in asking Dixon what Pro Line discs he doesn't have a problem with as being too flippy?

Happy New Year!

I bought and threw one today "pro line Beast 175g" True love at first throw and it looks real purty too , a lovely shade of green/msgboard/images/clipart/proud.gif

What everyone says is probably true. There was a lot of variation in the first startup batch of Pro Beasts. The flippiest were a reddish color that was not particularly transparent. I had two molders running them that were not as experienced as they should have been and I didn't catch the problem until several thousand were out the door. The problems were ironed out later. The most stable variety have an inner wall (where you put your finger pads) that is very straight and relatively tall feeling. The least stable have an inner wall that feels slightly concave. I have used all of the variations and like the almost stable versions for air shots, and the concave wall unstable versions for rollers. The problem isn't flight characteristic as much as it is expectations. Whether the plastic was the transparent or pearly type makes no difference to the outcome. It was the molding parameters that made the difference. The DX run did not seem to have the same startup problems as the Pro. For those of you who were expecting the more stable Pro type; send the flippy ones back to Innova West and we will exchange them for the more stable variety.

Over the half-dozen throws before going in the lake, I found my max-weight DX Beast to be too overstable for my liking. Certainly more overstable than a Valk, but not as overstable as an Eagle (at least the way I remember them, back when they were introduced).

Over the half-dozen or so throws with my max-weight see-through Pro Beast, I find it to be less overstable than the DX. Still more overstable than a Valk, but not vastly so.

Considering how variable a person's throws and the conditions might be, a half-dozen throws isn't enough, but those are the early indications.

rodney

I'm sorry but, WHAT A MESS! Get a hold of yourselves. Why release more X OUTS! What is the point?? Inconsistancy at its best. Hello EBAY! No wonder my xd's blow now. Disgusting! The man making these discs has no CLUE what is going on! I'm gonna go puke!

Phil, you pathetic maggot.....right then, ahem, as you were.

Is the Pro Beast going to be available in 150 class? I love my gummy 150 CE Valk (I've bought a couple 150 JKs to back up my 3 CEs) The 150 CE Valk is great for down wind shots or huge long turn-overs. But, I was thinking the 150 Pro Beast might work better into slight head winds or for shots that need to stay a little straighter. I saw 150 Pro Gazelles but i'm not convinced they are fast and/or long enough for what I'm looking for.
Next on my wish list is a 150 Pro Line Firebird or maybe a Banshee. Is there some manufacturing issue with making a very over-stable disc in candy plastic? The lightest, most over-stable candy disc I've seen is a 156g CE Eagle. I wish it was a few grams lighter so I could throw it straight and flat a few yards further before it starts to fade.
Well I do have a rare 153g candy 9x KC Bansee but I won't throw it. A 3-4 year old (a 9x disc would be 98-99, right?) candy plastic KC Banshee is too valuable to throw. The KC Banshees to this day are still the old opaque white plastic as far as I know.

Kurt, we can make Pro Banshees in 150 gms and have. We also have had Pro Eagles. Both of these were used in Japan and flew very well. Firebirds didn't get that low yet, but will. Beasts, I haven't seen any that low, but I will give it a shot today.

Kurt, it looks like we haven't made anything lower that about 160gm in taffy candy yet, I think we can go a little lower. I have tried the Beast in DX Plastic at 150 and it flies very well IMO.

dave-thanks for clearing that up. it is a shame though that the unstables were not caught before being shipped-it just makes it really hard for those of us who have to mail order discs. thanks for the offer to return them if needed. my 166 pro beasts are almost gummy kurt. oh-also- dave- are the normal pro-beasts [the ones that are coming out as intended] supposed to be a little less stable than dx? i thought the pro plastic should always add a tad more stability generally. thanx for your time. oh yea--phil--it's funny how you are so frustrated by this; even though you claim to not like innova products, instead of buying another brand and moving on with your life you spend your time ridiculing innova on a thread dedicated to them. i'll bet you are a real fun, positive person to hang out with.

i threw a beast this weekend brand new out of the box and it will be the best roller disc i have seen.

i threw it and right away it turned over and rolled so i used it that way it is not very stable to throw for distance unless you were hyzering a shot in the tail wind so it could turn slower

p.s. but a really good roller dx plastic

steven, the Pro plastic does not mold up any more stable than the DX per se. The Pro is subject to more molding vagaries and therefore more variability. The DX and Pro Beasts are supposed to be a -1 for high speed stability. When molded correctly, they are a little more high speed stable than a Valkyrie.

Bested my best drives on 7 and 14 at Kilborne. BOOM.

I love this disc.

Pro BST 174.

anyone compare a pro or dx beast to a z-wildcat?

I find the pro beast to be extremely similar to the Z-wildcat in that I have not thrown either one. The DX beast flies much less like a z-wildcat for me, having actually left my hand and traveled some distance in the air before landing on the ground, whereas the best flight I have gotten from a z-wildcat dropped one inch from my hand back onto the rack from which I decided not to purchase it.

:D

First of all I would like to thank Dave and Sam for the Pro Line Beasts that they sent me.

I used these discs mostly for mulligans this past week At Z Boaz and Veterans. Please take into to consideration that I only throw Teebirds and Firebirds, and I only use the Valk for rollers.

At low speeds the Beast seem to be fairly stable, they straighten up and then hyzer out pretty quick.

At medium speeds they tend to turn over pretty quick, and will not flex out that fast. It seems that you need to spend some time figuring out the correct angle to make them fly straight. They are a great disc for the low ceiling shot, as it will not rise unless you bounce it.

At high speeds they turn over big time! For those of you that play Z-Boaz here is the example(remember I'am a lefty) Hole 4 I aimed at downtown Fort Worth and ended up pin high, 60' left. This disc will make the distance thrower stop and want to buy more, just because once you figure out how to throw it you won't have to walk so much. This disc will turn over fairly quick on the big anhyzer, but it will glide for a mile and slowly plain out like the Phenix of yesteryear. I think that any player could make it fly far as long as you can generate good disc speed.

One last thing, getting the nose up on low to medium speeds will improve the stability a little bit. I have not tried it for rollers yet, but I will soon.

Dixon, try it again when you are having a better day in the park /msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

Craig,
I've been trying to get ahold of you for over 2 years now.
What gives?

Thanks for your input Dave! I'm not a big Dx fan, it wears a little too quickly for my liking especially 150 class. I was wearing out a 150 Ram every 2 weeks this summer. My 160g CE has replaced the Ram very nicely. I just wish I had a 150 gram CE Firebird for long into the wind distance hyzers or awsome s-curves. Over-stable light stuff (150g or very close) in Candy or Pro plastic is very hard to come by. If you have a run of 150g Pro Firebirds, Banshees or even Whippets please drop a note here and I'll canvas every online store I know of to find them.
Again, thanks for the info.

We need to get a RIGHT HANDERS point of view. I have seen more righty's in disc golf than lefty's. Go ahead and send it to me Craig and I will give it the proper review!!

/msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

thanks

Lefty's Rule!!

OK, so the Beast is out of it's cage, what's the deal with the Monster?

As far as I know it has not been released yet. I hope they are approved soon, fast and stable.

i must confer disappointment with the pro beasts. after 2 long days [golf and feild] i found them to be very finicky early in the flight--either turning way over or staying hyzer. they have an extremely hard fade at the end to fight back from turning over. very unpredictable. if you get it exactly right--a big annie that straightens out at the end---they are longer than anything else. but for me they have a much wilder flight than even pro valks, while only adding maybe a hair of d. what i did discover was the dx beast is not as wild as the pro--more like a faster more stable valk when new. i hate to say it-- but the z-wildcat is the longest, most predictable straight golf disc out there for me. it goes really long with a straight flight. for me just like a longer, faster ce tl with a hair stronger fade at the end. it goes straight and where you throw it and really stands up to the wind with out hyzering out to easy--just long and straight. very controllable for long golf shots. i can't beleive i put-up with valk [and now pro-beast] unpredictability for so long. my round felt so much more solid without having to deal with the finickyness of the valk.[rising and going off-line one way or another] the z-cat stayed low easier and was so much more consistant without being overstable. i'll still keep a gummy light valk around for when i have an open shot where i need a few more feet [and more excitement] than the cat. just my personal observations--thanks for the forum

I am loving the overstable Pro beast. It has instanly added about distance to my backhand hyzer, in the same fasion as the original candy Valk added to my anhyzer. Good job Dave, and if the offer still stands I have a under stable one I would love to trade in.

I have only thrown a dx beast so far- but man does that thing floats forever- For a stable disc this thing has amazing distance. (to thrown max distance- I usually throw with a little hyzer and allow a big S curve) but-- The beast is a little too stable for that right now. But just throwing them dead straight gets amazing distance. Once -it beats up a little - this thing will definetely allow me to throw farther than ever. The fresh stable ones also really allow me to throw straighter and further with better control. I LOVE IT!

i would love to try a stable [or over] pro beast---but how do you know what you are ordering-- the people on the phone at mailorder places don't know usually. unlike what dd said-my crappy ones do not have a concave inside wall. i would love to try a pro that flew like dx--but i have yet to see it. anyone know where these alleged stable ones are?

I threw both a DX and Pro line Beast for the first time this weekend, and the DX version is pretty sweet. Added about 30' to my drives... too bad the DX plastic beats up too quick, and the Pro run I threw was too flippy at high speed.

I have had a Pro Beast (172g yellow pearl) for three weeks now. I love this disc, it gave me an instant gain of probably 35 feet over my CE valks on straight shots. This disc has been extremely stable for me, and it comes out of my hand like a bullet. The ending fade is a bit harsh, but now that I am used to it I like it.
(b.t.w. am left handed)
I have read what everyone has said about it turning over, and mine hasn't done so once yet. Funny thing is, none of my friends can throw it correctly, and I have let 5 or 6 people throw this disc, I found that somewhat odd, but thier shots always come out with way too much hyzer or just don't work for whatever reason.
I really want to try a 150 DX beast for a roller as soon as they come out in that weight. We will see, overall I love the disc.

Crushed hole 7 at Kilborne 3 times in three rounds. This thing just added 80 feet to my drive on that hole. It's the Be_st! I had 40-70 foot putts, and being the putz I am, I missed all of em!

My Pro Line, yellow, 175 BST was making me a believer this weekend. If you release it just right (flat and low) it really comes out fast. You can feel and notice the difference. Thanx Dave. It really is a Valkyrie on ANABOL. I'm just getting used to gripping it. It's a little wider than a Valk.

Just got my two new 172 pro beasts in a few hours ago. I went straight to the soccer field to check them out. Very sweet and long. The ones I have hold a really good line if thrown with some hyzer, and turn over if thrown flat. I have been throwing a z wildcat for a few weeks trying to see if I could add some distance and predictability over my valks. For me, the pro beast is almost exactly like the z wildcat. Both are more dependable than a ce valk, and both are 30 - 40 feet longer for me. I am basing this on only 20 - 30 throws, but my initial response is that I like them alot.

I just ordered a 150g Beast! Should have it tomorrow, I'll let everyone know how it flies, or possibly how it rolls?

My wife and daughter are both digging the 150 DX Beast.

Attention: Do not pay attention to the haters. This here Beastie is a suhweet disc. I was throwing the crap outta one today with distance and predictability (which if you've seen me throw is endorsement enough), and what's been said about how great they are just off the ground and low couldn't be more true. I also watched a good Pro arm making this thing do some amazing stuff today.

The Beast is Baaaad! (you know, in a good way. /msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif )

is it Kick "A" mark?

What he said.

OK, I just got back from my lunch, instead of eating I went to a field with my 150g Beast that I got in the mail two hours ago. AMAZING! I tried to throw airborne a couple times before I tested the roller. Airborne:
If you throw with a slight hyzer, very hard and low it will come out like a rocket and do a very straight S-curve and go VERY FAR!! It will take me a while longer to learn to aim with it, but it was still quite predictable.
ROLL:
I threw it very hard and with just a slight annhyzer(to make sure it hit in a roll position). WOW this thing can go! I could throw it about 275' before it even hit the ground, and it stayed true and ready to roll till it hit, when it hits it keeps a good line and can go for quite a lot more distance!

The field was completely flat,(can't wait to see what will happen with a slight downhill) and it was a bit windy (headwind! not tailwind).

I only threw for about 45 minutes so it is still in a preliminary stage, but, if you like to roll, get this disc and try it!

I got 3 of the stable versions of the Proline yesterday. They are awesome. Very straight and long. they fly like a fast teebird for me. I love the DX for long hyzers. Dave, are you making the DX differently? It seems a little more durable.

DX is basically the same as it has been for about six months.

I have 2 DX and 2 Proline Beasts 170 and 174 each and love them. The Proline has added at least 30 feet with no more effort. It is slightly understable, and with a little hyzer release, it flies very straight. Love them, don't change them!!!!!!!!!!!!!! These will replace all my Valkyries, except my roller. Has anyone rolled a max weight Proline Beast yet?What does the Monster do?

the monster is very overstable i heard. compare it to a firebirds brother.

hey, i own beast 165 and 172 and its really nice, however i tried on beautiful day and windless at santa cruz. so i have no idea how the beast will response toward the wind since its more overstable like a firebird. so is it any good in the wind or is it still considered as understable in the wind condition?

Windless in Santa Cruz? I thought that was illegal!

the 172g should react like a TeeBird into windy conditions, stable to slightly overstable (but fly a bit faster than a teebird).

The 165g will probably react like a valkyrie in the wind, and turn over slightly before correcting itself.

lol!! prolly its illegal to have windless at scz, i will be going there again this friday.

ahh!! like a teebird.. i got it.. now i will know what to predict the flight! thanks for the info.

it IS kick "A" Mark. leaves room for more midrange in tha bag

Dave, can you make a pro beast at the same stability as a DX beast. The DX is great, but I have hit a couple trees and it is slowly but surely, losing that stability. I am loving the DX for hyzer bombs (where I was throwing FX's). They cuts about as hard as the FX but flies farther before cutting in.

Kid Roc, most of the Pro Beasts are as stable as the DX. Look for the ones with the lowest profile and straightest vertical wall on the rim.

Dave;
You guys are doing an awesome job making these discs! I love the way they feel in my hand, and how smoothly/effortlessly they release! Keep up the good work!

have yet to see a pro beast that is as stable as a new dx--maybe next run? maybe use some sort of designation?

I have a Pro Beast and Dx Beast- The Pro Beast is slightly more stable!(same weight) I hear differen't things from people on this board- but my pro beast is very stable.

mine is just right! send me all your flippy ones

I like the flippy ones, too. I assume the one that I have is flippy, since I've seen a DX that was a lot more overstable. My 175g white pearl pro-beast is just a little more stable than the valkyries, but a lot faster and longer.

Dave, if future runs will be more overstable, can you make a new disc that flies like the less overstable part of the current run?

Can I get on a list to purchase some of the returned "flippy" ones (if anybody takes advantage of the exchange program).

yeah, me too, me too!

Common Benbow! You're a pro now, you're supposed to throw overstable /msgboard/images/clipart/proud.gif

Another day out on the course today throwing and watching guys throw the new Beast, and another day amazed at the way these things just fly, and fly, and fly....

This is a great disc. If there's a disc that can replace the Q-J as my do-everything-throw-all-the-time driver, this would be it.

dx beasts...for real [when new]

This disc will have a great shot at the World record some day soon!!!!

Hey BBD,
I play pro now, but that doesn't mean I'm any good!
Are you going to be out here again, or are you a texan now? Looking forward to a rematch at Horse Mtn!

jesse

True Dat Mr. Benbow /msgboard/images/clipart/proud.gif

I hope to G-d that I'll be out there again soon. I still dream about Horse Mtn. and how I stole the Summerfoot title from Belchik (and you). Still no course compares...when there are baskets. Well, maybe Houck's San Saba is a close second.

Anybody know if they made lighter proline beasts. I mean in the 167-170g range. Every single online vender and local vender I have asked- only have 175-173g pro-beasts. Did they make high 160g pro-beasts. I know they have DX ones in that weight, but I really want a pro-line beast. I also know some are stable and some are understable- I'd like one that flies just like the DX one I have (moderatly stable).
If anybody out their has some please contact me.

I have a nice bright pink 168g Pro Beast. Sorry, it's not for sale. There were a whole bunch in that weight at the SoCal/NoCal tourney so they did make more than just mine in that weight. I think all the light ones were pink, though!

I have a purple 162, that also is not for sale.
traded it for a 174

hey rob,

They make a 150 class beast!!!!! its unreal ,almost cheating.../msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif

you can really flip that one over.

If you cant find one online ...checkout disclanding.com

Its located in Charlotte,NC
they'll be happy to send you one


Ken

yes in the pro line

Pretty good selection of Pro Line Beasts in all weights at www.discndat.net (http://www.discndat.net)

I saw Dave D. say in this thread
"Kurt, it looks like we haven't made anything lower that about 160gm in taffy candy yet, I think we can go a little lower. I have tried the Beast in DX Plastic at 150 and it flies very well IMO."
Has this changed since Mr Dunipace posted this a couple weeks ago?
I have been talking with Kady at Disc'n Dat for a while now and she tells me that 165 grams is the lightest Pro Line she has seen. If there is some 150 gramers floating around please tell me where.

I threw a 151 beast 5 days ago.

Great disc,to light for me tho


Dont know where one is, but a buddy has one.

He got his @disclanding in Charlotte,NC

Got my first ACE of the year with a DX Beast this weekend. Bout 380 into a STRONG headwind, put a little hyzer on it and it flipped over just a hair right to the pin, BANG! #18 Long in Berkeley, CA for bout $60.

DX Plastic Rules!!!

I've thrown my yellow-green 160g Pro Beast several times as a field testing it and a few times in a golf round. I would say it is without a doubt more stable/overstable than my 170g CE Valk. Granted there isn't a night &amp; day difference in stability. But it sounds like the amount Dave D wanted. However, the Pro Beast seems alot easier for me to throw with more distance (~370 compared to ~330).

The DX Beast, as with the DX Valk before it, is the shiznit. I just got done throwing some, 165/171/175. The 171 was working for me.

Thats cause you're old. I ACED with a 75/msgboard/images/clipart/proud.gif

Yeah, but what about the holes that were longer than 130 feet? /clipart/wink.gif

Has the DX plastic changed in the past few months or so? The last few disc I got in the DX plastic, a Gator and a Beast, both seem to be grippier. Just wondering? By the way the Beast is the best distance disc I've ever thrown.

yes it changed about 6 months ago. I really like the DX Beast too. There is no Proline I have seen that is as stable as a DX. But I did get a new Proline Monster. It is as fast as a DX Beast and a bit more stable. It replaced the DX Beast in my bag b/c DX gets beat up way too fast.

I (like any idiot disc addict) will buy some DX Beasts . . . but it goes FARTHER than the DX Valk?

(The key word is "farther". All the other "more-overstable" blah blah is great - I really love the Valk because of distance. Yes - it beats up too fast. Good, I get to buy more!! Yes - it's tough to control . .. but when you get it going left to right at the right altitude, it lands way way far away!!)

Paul,
Yes there has to be something said about throwing a disc and watching it fly way far away, even it if it is going 40 degrees in the wrong direction /msgboard/images/clipart/happy.gif
"What a crappy 450' drive" just doesn't sound right, ya know?!

I sure like the Beast BUT... I'm finding that they vary seriously. It appears that whomever was supposed to trim the excess arount the perimeter of the discs (after they came out of the mold) was drunk!
I'm finding flat/misshaped edges around the perimeter and it is making them understable. I've purchased/won 4 so far and only one is done correctly. Hopefully this is a "one time/one run" thing and I can find another descent one in the near future.

Other people have told me the same thing. I'm not kidding. Beware! Get the real Beast. It's great!

I purchased a pro line one from DiscFly.com and it is super sweet. I am getting at least 20-30 additional feet out of my drives. I usually drive with a JK Pro Valk...but the Beast is quickly becoming it's replacement. A few of the pro's around my area have started throwing the Pro Line models and are loving them. So...my advice is...get one. You won't be sorry.

From what I have seen with the Pro Line Beast, the general rule is that if you like throwing Valkyries, you will probably like the Pro Line Beast. I hate Valks and I equally hate the Beast.

i have been throwing dx beasts for a while and think it is the best disc innova has ever made. very stable, controllable and fast. anyway--i tried the pro beast when it 1st casme out and thought it would be the one. the ones i got were way unstable. i got rid of them. i understand there was a problem with those 1st ones---and my question is: are the newer pro beasts as stable and predictable as dx? how am i to be sure i don't get one of those early screwy ones? thanx

Yes, the Pro Beasts are as stable and predictable as the DX. Currently I have both a Pro Candy Clear Beast and a Pro Candy Pearly Beast. The Pearly one seems to be slightly less stable, but feels better in the hand and is less domey than the Clear Beast.
From what I understand there was only handfull of the flippy beasts. They are currently one of the hottest discs on the market, so I would guess that Innova is well into another run or two.

dave d---or anyone else---should i try to get clear instead of pearly if i want the most stable pro beasts?

Steven, no. The best ones I have thrown were pearl type from the first and second runs. The second run of Pro Beasts was much more consistent. The third will be even more consistent as we go up the learning curve.

I played with my pearl type for the first time today and got great results. I had several throws that were my longest yet and I am just getting started. It will fade if not thrown with enough snap but that's my problem not the discs.

Anybody have any of the flippy beasts they want to trade for newer stable ones ?

Threw my longest drive ever this Sunday with my pearl pink 166g Pro Beast. Hole 5 at Morley, pin at D position (~420 feet). Put a good amount of hyzer on it and let her rip...it flattened out, went straight down the fairway, faded at the end and skipped about 3o feet left of the basket, pin-high! Okay so it's a downhill hole, but still my best drive ever. Thanks to the Beast and the Z Wildcat I am finally approaching 400 feet on level ground and reaching pins I never could before. Thanks to Innova AND Discraft for continually improving their plastic.

More importantly, a big thanks to Jeff Nichols. Played one round with him about a month ago and the few tips he gave me have greatly improved my drives. Thanks Jeff you are the man!

Oh yeah, how do I tell if I have a flippy Beast?

Joohoon, the flippiness is a matter of degree. This being said, if you put a good amount of hyzeer on your disc, it should only come up to flat and no more. If it rolls over past flat, it is too flippy and would make a better roller than flier. As far as visually seeing, you can inspect the vertical rim wall by reflecting a shaft of light off it. You should see a straight bar of light perpendicular to the plane of the rim. As you rotate the disc, that bar of light should remain straight all the way around. If it doesn't, the rim probably has a small imperfection that will affect stability. It is very difficult to see or feel these small flaws any other way.

why does the 'dimple' on the inside rim make it less stable? Does it make the disc out of balance?

Thanks for the reply Dave. I don't think I have a flippy one.

BTW, can't wait to try out a CE Aviar...

A dimple creates more aerodynamic turbulence and drag......which increases at the square of speed.

greg, I don't understand your question. Sorry.

dave maybe he is refering to the air bubbles in the rim of some of the beasts. does this affect their flight?

I believe Greg was referring to the inner rim being slightly caved in. I have that on a KC Teebird and believe that was a "mis-mold" or should have been an X-out. I compared it with my other Tbirds and they all had level/flat inner rims. It flies just fine for me, though not as far. I use it as an midrange disc.

I'm 99% sure that Dale is talking about the same thing I am. The inner wall of the rim, under the plate, is concave not flat.

(______) Upside down with curved rim.

|______| Upside down with flat rim.

I thought this is what was being discussed.

Yes, but only a certain area of the inner rim is caved in, not all of it.
(______|

Is your whole inner rim caved in/curved? I had a Beast and it had a completely flat inner rim.

Exactly Dale. I have seen some with the most of the rim curved, but most are just partials.

I don't know if/why the flight is altered though since I don't have any innova in the bag. I was just curious if this was the 'abnormality' that Dave was talking about.

greg, yes that is the one of the abnormalities. Most of the time, the ones with the concave inner rim are less stable. I have not seen the ones with just one section concave, but I would assume those are a little less stable too. Anything other than a dead flat inner rim could change the pure flight characteristic of that, or any other distance driver as they are thrown at the highest speeds with the highest expectations.

That's what I thought. But any idea if it is due to the airflow under the plate or the disc being slightly out of balance?

It would be airflow moreso than balance.

Dave (Dunipace or McCormack), have you experimented with hollowing out some of the inner rim of discs? I ask because being trapped indoors and bored this winter I factored the inner wall of a few discs to see how it affected flight:
`__________________________________
/./````````````````````````````````
\.\
`\.|
..``

sorry for the roughness of the diagram, but it gives the idea--basically, I cleanly scraped out 10-12g of plastic from the upper inside of the rim of a DX Banshee and DX Eagle... the bottom half of the inside rim is still straight.

The result seemed to be that the discs were much easier to get a good grip on in cold/wet weather because your fingers could really hold into the groove, and it seemed to add distance (lighter weight) without really affecting the stability of the discs. As long as the exterior, aerodynamic profile of the disc--anything that would hit the wind--is unaltered, the flight seems to stay the same.

Obviously, I need to play with this some more, and it isn't too useful for me in the real world since the discs are now illegal for tourney play, but I was wondering if this had ever been considered for production plastic?

my guess says it would be really hard to get out of the mold with that shape.

All I know is that the Texas Flag Beast LOOKS better than any other disc in my bag by a factor of 10.

I'm a chronic slacker, and didn't get around to trying out a Beast until today. I finally picked myself up two new Pro Line Beasts and one DX Beast, all 174-175g. Looking back through this thread, I found many people referring to these discs as stable to understable. I found nothing of the sort; only in a strong headwind was I able to get these discs to flip at all. Granted, my max throw on level ground is less than 400', these were brand new discs, and heavy (175g) but I'm wondering if the newer Beasts are not like the original runs.

I can understand the DX Beast being more overstable, as this was the feedback I've heard previously, but I'm at a loss as to why those Pro Line Beasts were so stable.

Don't listen to him, he can't turn over a beat-up Leopard into a hurricain. He's right when he says his max throw on level ground is less than 400, but it's also less than 375, and less than 350, and less than 150, and he works hard to reach 50 feet. He uses a long-range driver for a 50-foot putt, because he can't throw a putter that far. He needs to use a 360 throw for the 50 foot putts.

yeah, but do those 360 putts go IN?
Jeff, surprised you got the results you did. I was beast-resistant at first because I can't stand valkyries.
After throwing the beast a few times I added 50 feet to my best D. Great open field S-turn driver. Also a wonderful disc for super-huge 350' anhyzers over 100' trees.

Hey Morgan, what's your player rating these days?

That's what I thought - shut the [*****] up now!

jeff....to add to my post on the other thread...i don't believe i remember you throwing discs that require S-turns to maximize distance. if i'm correct you pretty much throw plastic for distance that takes a straight line? the Z-Wildcat isn't as stable as the Pro Beast (at least for my throwing mechanics) and will fly straighter. i think we throw similarly. try the Z-wildcats. i think they'll suit your style just fine.

Jeff, I have found the same, I also am a weenie arm, who cant quite hit 400', and my pearl white 174 beast, wont flip, even when I try to get it to annie.....I picked up a pearl white 168, and it is more like the ones people describe here....

I am still convinced colors do effect stability...

Also, the level of opaqueness....the closer to clear, the more flippy.....even in max weights....

I can't figure out the Wildcat. I've been trying too, but it flips unexpectedly and hyzers out sometimes as well.

If I was going to go to the trouble of figuring out a voodoo under-stable disc again, I think I'd give the CE Beast a chance. Until then, I'll stick with the same two CE Teebirds that have been in my bag for the last 4 years. They may not punch though for crazy distance, like I've seen the Wildcat and Beast do, but you can be 100% sure of what they'll do at least. And that is worth a lot in my book.

The next disc in my bag will either be one of the CE Teebird TLs, that from all reports and throwing a stack on a field seem most like the early run Teebirds, or the CE Glow Eagle I bought from the Soiree.

I agree with Cong's post about the opacity factor.

The Speed Daemon (?) is, in my opinion, a significant jump forward in the battle for Stability King. It is much faster than the RAM also. I hope the minds at INNOVA are working on an answer to this challenge to the stability title...

Nick - I'll trade a nice predictable, brand new 180g RAM for 2 used Z-wildcats.

Paul, I've got 2 brand new 180g RAMs and 1 Used Z Wildcat, any of which are unlikely to see the inside of my golf bag. I'll trade all three for a first run CE Teebird.

Anyone who thinks that molding problems and inconsistency are a characteristic of only the new, wide rimmed discs should give this oldie a read.

Quality flashback

Anyone who thinks that molding problems and inconsistency are a characteristic of only the new, wide rimmed discs should give this oldie a read.



Actually, when I read the thread I get the impression that the problem was that the Pro version was vastly different than the DX. That's nothing new - since the advent of alternate plastics such as K.C., C.E., Champion, Pro, Star, etc. there have often been differences, sometimes significant, between the more durable plastic and their DX counterparts.

The inconsistency issues with newer wide wing drivers is when there are vast swings between discs OF THE EXACT SAME RUN. When I buy 175g discs that are flippy turnover discs and 167g discs from the exact same run that are overstable pigs, it's unacceptable.

Unacceptable? You still have a choice to not throw them.

Either it is a characteristic of wide wing drivers in general or no disc manufacturer has the ability to control it yet. Either way, right now, it is what it is. Should the manufacurers keep discs with more potential for distance shelved until they can perfectly control the manufacturing process? I would rather have them available for those willing to risk getting a non-perfect disc. Those not willing to risk it have the choice to keep throwing slower discs that are more consistently run.

Or what are you suggesting?

The manufacturers should grind up the rejects and recycle them. And stop releasing inferior and inconsistent product to the public.

The manufacturers should grind up the rejects and recycle them. And stop releasing inferior and inconsistent product to the public.




They do and it is probably like 1 out of every ten.

Also the Beast mold was changed which is why the Pro was unlike the old DX.

So, should manufacturers test throw each disc before selling them?

By the way the test thrower would need to be 1000 rated or higher or else the disc would be beat up by the time a 900 rated golfer had enough throws to judge the consistency. :)

Throw them and do what? Mark the overstable ones "O" normal "N" and under "U"?

I believe the "O"s and "U"s would be recycled. But then the cost of each "N" disc would be increased due to the number of recycled discs plus the payroll of the test thrower would need to be accounted for. . . . carry the one. . . My fake math adds up to about the cost of 3 current discs. :p

Anyone who thinks that molding problems and inconsistency are a characteristic of only the new, wide rimmed discs should give this oldie a read.



Actually, when I read the thread I get the impression that the problem was that the Pro version was vastly different than the DX. That's nothing new - since the advent of alternate plastics such as K.C., C.E., Champion, Pro, Star, etc. there have often been differences, sometimes significant, between the more durable plastic and their DX counterparts.

The inconsistency issues with newer wide wing drivers is when there are vast swings between discs OF THE EXACT SAME RUN. When I buy 175g discs that are flippy turnover discs and 167g discs from the exact same run that are overstable pigs, it's unacceptable.



It seems that you did not read the first page of this thread, including this quote from Dave D:


What everyone says is probably true. There was a lot of variation in the first startup batch of Pro Beasts. The flippiest were a reddish color that was not particularly transparent. I had two molders running them that were not as experienced as they should have been and I didn't catch the problem until several thousand were out the door. The problems were ironed out later. The most stable variety have an inner wall (where you put your finger pads) that is very straight and relatively tall feeling. The least stable have an inner wall that feels slightly concave. I have used all of the variations and like the almost stable versions for air shots, and the concave wall unstable versions for rollers. The problem isn't flight characteristic as much as it is expectations. Whether the plastic was the transparent or pearly type makes no difference to the outcome. It was the molding parameters that made the difference. The DX run did not seem to have the same startup problems as the Pro. For those of you who were expecting the more stable Pro type; send the flippy ones back to Innova West and we will exchange them for the more stable variety.



The first run of Pro (champion plastic) Beasts were very inconsistent. There were overstable ones and roller ones, I remember having versions of each at the time (or maybe I wasn't good enough to tell :D). Like every new Innova disc, Dave D. molded some, decided which stability he wanted, and learned from the molding process how to manipulate things to make the runs more consistently what he intended. He has recently done this again with the Boss, and will do the same with the Groove. The tough transition from dx to Pro (champ) with the Beast is probably what caused Dave D. to start designing molds for champ rather than dx plastic as he recently revealed when I asked him about Innova's fairway drivers being too stable.

BTW Scooter--the original Pro Beast was the same mold as the dx, they changed it after Barry Schulz won his second World title.