I'm coming from golf, which is quite obviously similar in some respects to disc golf, and I've given this topic a little thought.

I think the manner in which scoring is done in disc golf is dumber than the way it's done in golf. I'm basing this upon the assumption that in disc golf there's typically one card for the group, and that card is rotated throughout the players on that card as the round progresses (or sometimes kept by the top player on the card for the entire round).

In golf, what's typically done is that players will cycle their scorecards in their groups. Player A will give his card to B, B to C, C to D, and D to A. Every player is responsible for one other player. Tournaments will often use scorecards that have a tear-off sheet on the bottom of every scorecard - this is used to keep YOUR score, and then when you're done, you tear it off and line it up with YOUR card, which was kept by the other player. You compare hole by hole (takes very little time), sign it, make sure your scorer signed it, and turn it in.

I feel this method has several advantages. In no particular order:

* It prevents a player from every keeping "his" score. In disc golf, a player will keep his own score 1/4 of the time or more. Nobody can really stop someone from shaving a stroke or two during the time they are keeping the group's scorecard.*
* In golf, if a player loses his scorecard, only one player is without his scores (and he's kept track of his scores on the tear-away of the card he's got). In disc golf, a lost scorecard will result in the loss of the scores for every player.
* You're responsible for only one player's scores, eliminating the need to ask on every tee for everyone's scores. You just pay attention to the player you're scoring for (and yourself, of course, but you're always doing that).
* This makes things easier for TDs. Yes, they need more scorecards, but they don't have to get the groupings down correctly as it's one scorecard per player, so they can change groupings without having to worry about whether they need to re-do scorecards. They can prepare cards before the tournament begins for a multi-round event.
* This removes the need to cycle the card through the group every 4, 5, or 6 holes, and eliminates any possibility of being disadvantaged by having "the" card on certain holes - everyone has a card all the time.


I can't really think of too many cons - I suppose having to buy more cards is one (but they're just paper, so… that's not exactly a big con), and perhaps some players like not having to keep score for 12 or 14 holes or whatever, but it's their responsibility, so again not a big con.

So, why is this done this way? Or is it not done this way most of the time? Am I missing something, or is this possibly something that could change for the better?

* Regarding stroke shaving when a player has the group's scorecard, I'm not saying this occurs with regularity, particularly at higher level events in the final rounds, but it could have easily happened in the MA1 or MA2 divisions of the A-Tier in which I played. Nobody really seems to pay much attention to what other players are shooting and they won't remember at the end of the round, nor do they check the hole scores of the other players at the end of the round.

In the A-Tier, a player on my card during the second round lost his card during the first round on the 17th hole and they were all sweating bullets. Fortunately someone else turned it in for them, but they'd have been out of luck otherwise.

I posted this on DGCR as well. (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2192325) Responses seem to agree (though not strongly as this issue isn't exactly HUGE, just a small thing that could be improved) overall, so I decided to post it here.

P.S. To board administrators, the LIST functionality appears to be broken. Your stylesheets are preventing the list from displaying properly as the HTML is there for an unordered list.

I think that all players should keep a scorecard for the entire group. At the end of the round, the group compares all of the cards and if they are all the same, turn them into the TD. If not, the group gets together and figures out where and who made the mistake before turning in the cards. JMO...and I've felt this way for a looong time.

I think that all players should keep a scorecard for the entire group. At the end of the round, the group compares all of the cards and if they are all the same, turn them into the TD. If not, the group gets together and figures out where and who made the mistake before turning in the cards. JMO...and I've felt this way for a looong time.

And IMO that's a bigger pain in the rear for the TD and is completely unnecessary.

Golf's done just fine the way they've done it, and it would let TDs print scorecards ahead of time, re-make groupings easily without redoing a single scorecard (let alone eight), and more.

I used a scorecard for my last tourney that had all 3 rounds.
It worked well. I like your idea of the year off style. Make a template, I would be Exicted to try it at my November event.

As a player I prefer a group score card, and each player scores several holes. In poor weather conditions it's easier to keep the single card dry, and less likely for the card(s) to blow away when dealing with just one.

As a TD I prefer a group score card. Less paper to setup before the first round, less to deal with between rounds, and the same for after the second round. Also don't have to try and match the score card with the players name on the scoreport (leader board).

A single card per group per round seems to be significantly more efficient when compared with one card per player.

One of the guys I complete with prefers having a single card per player for the entire tournament so they can see what they got on a particular hole in a previous round. And in contrast I prefer to not be reminded of what was scored in the past (good or bad) as it potentially sets up a situation of personal approval or disapproval.

As a player I prefer a group score card, and each player scores several holes. In poor weather conditions it's easier to keep the single card dry, and less likely for the card(s) to blow away when dealing with just one.

The method makes it easier to lose, easier for a player to shave a stroke or two here or there (or two friends to shave more), and so on. There are a few more issues listed above.

A single card per group per round seems to be significantly more efficient when compared with one card per player.

That would depend on how you define efficiency. If cards are per-player they can be printed entirely before a tournament begins. Groups can be reshuffled without remaking cards. They allow players to keep their own score if they wish and compare it to their official scorecard. They limit cheating opportunities.

In 16 years of tournament and league play I've seen written scores modified twice, both by adolescents and it was obvious. Many players are aware of what their competition scored and where they stand in comparison through the round. Where the problems typically occur is when a player forgets a shot, the other players remind him and all is forgiven. I am one of those who gets spacey especially during high temperatures (mid 90s) in an afternoon round.

By rotating the scoring responsibility between players in the group everyone gets a chance to see all the scores. At the end everyone reviews their own score, and can review other scores on the same card and call out discrepancies if needed.

This year at Am World's where pre-registration was required the score cards were done per group.

Some of the areas where a group card seems more efficient is (some of these were mentioned before):
a) preparing up to 18 cards (one group) vs up to 90 cards (one per player with 5 per hole)
b) during play there is no need to sort/shuffle cards to write scores
c) during play there is only one card to keep out of the rain
d) at HQ when checking scores it's easier to have fewer cards to sort through, and when there is a discrepancy it's easy to tell who else was on the card when needing verification.
e) at HQ when placing cards in the score port there the TD can save time by only putting the first name or just initials on the card (or at a few tournaments the TD leaves it blank and the players put their names on the card). It does help to circle the number of the groups starting hole.
f) during check-in/registration the TD doesn't have to find the score card for the player

True that groups can be shuffled without remaking score cards, but when using the scoreport / leaderboard the cards then have to be sorted to match the leaderboard. When there is a large group (say 50+) it's a pain to sort through those cards as opposed to jotting down initials on a new score card.

Had a situation once where one guy drove off with the score card and wasn't returning. The remaining three players recalled all their shots during the round. It's kind of fun to recall a round while trying to get to sleep at night, kind of like counting sheep. Interesting that a person can remember so much about their shots during the day.

For tournaments that require pre-registration the TD could print labels for the score cards. Assuming he has them and can take the time to layout a document for printing labels. It can be quite a challenge for people not used to setting up and printing mailing labels. The effort can be done by hand by writing initials on a 18 group cards in less than five minutes.

Some players keep their own scores on their own pad of paper, or phone app. Last year I got an iPhone and take photos of the score card after each round to review later.

In our region back in '97 individual score cards were the norm. That is no longer the case around here, the trend started changing about the same time the scoreport came about.

Recently the erasable / re-useable score cards are becoming popular.

However, what works for some doesn't work so well for others. There are different ways to do score cards for tournament and league rounds.

In 16 years of tournament and league play I've seen written scores modified twice, both by adolescents and it was obvious.

That's not the kind of pencil whipping I'm talking about. I'm talking about "Bob has the card for five holes, and during that time, he takes a 5 but writes down 4." Nobody would notice because people care about their own scores.

"Many" is not "all."

a) preparing up to 18 cards (one group) vs up to 90 cards (one per player with 5 per hole)

And if you need to re-organize any of those groups, the TD is scrambling to do so.

b) during play there is no need to sort/shuffle cards to write scores

Nor is there the way I've proposed.

d) at HQ when checking scores it's easier to have fewer cards to sort through, and when there is a discrepancy it's easy to tell who else was on the card when needing verification.

To be clear, you're talking about EVERY player keeping EVERY other player's score. That's fine, but not the type of scorecard keeping I was talking about - with one card rotating throughout the players in the group.

e) at HQ when placing cards in the score port there the TD can save time by only putting the first name or just initials on the card (or at a few tournaments the TD leaves it blank and the players put their names on the card). It does help to circle the number of the groups starting hole.

That's not really a time savings over being able to print all of the cards out before the tournament.

Anyway, you seem to disagree with me, and that's fine. I had a bad tournament experience with the "one card for the group" method. As I said, one group nearly lost their card, and it seemed obvious to me that someone could, when keeping score, shave a stroke or two from their scores or the scores of their buddy/buddies, as well as the other (smaller) issues I listed.

And to be clear, I have much less of a problem with "everyone keeps everyone's scores for every hole" than with the "one scorecard rotated throughout the group" method.

Everyone keeping score for each hole during the round is definitely not what I'm talking about.

What I meant was with 4 cards in a group of 4 there's the need to rotate the cards when writing the scores. For example write Joe's score on Joe's card, put Joe's card in the back of the the stack, write Bob's score on Bob's card, then put Bob's card in the back of the stack, write Larry's score on Larry's card, etc. That is the resorting of cards during play I'm referring to.

Getting labels and setting up a document to print labels takes some time. Not too bad if a person is used to doing that and prints labels often, knows which direction to put the paper in, etc. Probably not your typical TD though.

There's nothing wrong with keeping your own score, and keeping everyone elses score on your own note pad. Have met a few people who do that. Some people use birdie beads for keeping score.

Wanted to share the trend I've seen with one card per group and list points as to why it's probably not going back to one card per person.

What I meant was with 4 cards in a group of 4 there's the need to rotate the cards when writing the scores. For example write Joe's score on Joe's card, put Joe's card in the back of the the stack, write Bob's score on Bob's card, then put Bob's card in the back of the stack, write Larry's score on Larry's card, etc. That is the resorting of cards during play I'm referring to.

That system sounds horrible, and is not what I'm proposing as a better alternative to cycling a single card with everyone's names on it throughout the group every four or five holes.

Getting labels and setting up a document to print labels takes some time. Not too bad if a person is used to doing that and prints labels often, knows which direction to put the paper in, etc. Probably not your typical TD though.

Labels? Who is talking about printing or using labels?

I don't think you understand the method commonly used in golf if you think it's like the first quoted paragraph or that it uses labels.