The way I read the 2013 AM Worlds Invite information is that if you're a player aged 40-49 you can only enter MM1 on Mar 29. If you want to play MA1 you have to wait until May 3, at which point that division could be full.

Likewise if you're a junior player you have to register for your junior division on Mar 29 and can't try to get in to MA1 until May3, at which point that division could be full.

What is the rationale behind pigeonholing younger and older players into age restricted divisions and keeping them out of what should be the top "Open" amateur division (MA1)?

Some of those older and younger players didn't play an age restricted division for the entire 2012 year, why force them to register for one now?

This policy could keep some of the top amateur talent out of MA1...

My guess is several fields with lower caps this year compared with previous Am Worlds. While playing up has overwhelmingly been a common option, don't you think it's more of a privilege than a right?

While playing up has overwhelmingly been a common option, don't you think it's more of a privilege than a right?
Not at all. IMO, the Men's Advanced division should be open to any and all amateur competitors. That's backed up by the PDGA's own Player Division table (http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/PlayersDivisionGrid_0.pdf) that says "All Ages Eligible".

All ages eligible simply means they could enter if they meet the qualifications established for an event that involves invite qualification such as Am Worlds. I suppose ratings could be used in the future instead of age for tiering entry timing but this is what they chose to try this year. It wouldn't have done any good to announce they were going to do this ahead of time because players couldn't do anything to change their age.

I would think the logic behind the restriction is that there are players who earned an invite in an age-based division who did not meet the qualifying criteria for MA1. Qualifying criteria #1 is earning a minimum number of points during the 2012 season. To qualify in MA1, players need a minimum of 500 points where as MM1 only requires a minimum of 200 points.

Seems to me it would be unfair for a 41-year-old player with 250 points to be invited as an MM1 and be able to instantly jump into MA1 despite being short of the minimum required.

I would think the logic behind the restriction is that there are players who earned an invite in an age-based division who did not meet the qualifying criteria for MA1. Qualifying criteria #1 is earning a minimum number of points during the 2012 season. To qualify in MA1, players need a minimum of 500 points where as MM1 only requires a minimum of 200 points.

Seems to me it would be unfair for a 41-year-old player with 250 points to be invited as an MM1 and be able to instantly jump into MA1 despite being short of the minimum required.
That makes oodles of sense. And I fully support that.

However, there are 41-year-old players (http://www.pdga.com/player_stats/50640/2012) who have earned 5000+ points in MA1. And 17-year-old players (http://www.pdga.com/player_stats/50512/2012) with 4000+ points in MA1.

It should be trivial to determine how many points a player has and determine if they qualified for both MM1 & MA1... or MJ1 & MA1.

If this policy were in place in 2010 it could have kept David Wiggins Jr out of MA1 and denied him the opportunity to win the top AM World Championship. Does the PDGA really think that's a good thing?

Delayed perhaps but not necessarily denied. He could have won another Junior title and gone for the MA1 title the following year.

If this policy were in place in 2010 it could have kept David Wiggins Jr out of MA1 and denied him the opportunity to win the top AM World Championship.
Delayed perhaps but not necessarily denied. He could have won another Junior title and gone for the MA1 title the following year.
What makes the following year any different? He was born in '95. So you're saying he could/should be delayed in 2010, delayed in 2011, delayed in 2012, delayed in 2013, delayed in 2014, and again delayed in 2015... until he's not <20 in 2016... and then he can try for an MA1 title?

Remember that the procedure this year was partly the result of a more limited field available for this event and these limits don't occur every year? Even then, exceptional high school players are "delayed" before they can play on a college team and exceptional college players are "delayed" before playing on a pro team. The PDGA sometimes has to set up artificial breaks that are already built in the school structure that's fundamental in other sports.

I got this letter in the mail today with my 2013 Membership kit:

PDGA Tour Player Classifications & Divisions

[...]
"Advanced - the top amateur division, available to all amateur players."


I guess that needs to be revised for 2013 with an asterisk that says "except at our highest tier event if you're over 40 or under 20 years of age."

Open is available to ALL PDGA members (except when there are invite requirements at USDGC, European Open, Worlds, Beaver State Fling, Vibram Open, etc.) Even Am Nationals has had more restrictive invite criteria than Am Worlds for years now.

Big kudos to the PDGA for doing this right! Thank you.


2013 PDGA Amateur Worlds Invites Updated (http://www.pdga.com/announcements/2013-pdga-amateur-worlds-invites-updated)


The invite list for the 2013 PDGA Amateur Disc Golf World Championships (http://www.pdga.com/pdga-documents/major-events/world-invites/2013-pdga-amateur-world-championships-invites) in Emporia, KS has been updated. It now lists each division a member is invited for. Invitees may register ONLY for their invited division(s) during the first tier of registration which opens on Friday March 29th. Invited members wishing to register for a division they were not invited for, must wait for the second tier of registration to open on May 3rd (if room.) Members who did not earn an invite must wait until the third tier of registration opens on May 31 (if room.)

This update is good but still does not enable registration in the division I qualify for and would like to play. (I am turning 50 this year) I played MM1 all last year and can only register for MM1 but should be allowed to register for MG1 due to my age. Do you think this will be fixed?

So at midnight will the form be available under the Pro Shop link?

I couldn't find a way to get to sign ups through the store. I went to http://www.pdgasignup.com/.

This update is good but still does not enable registration in the division I qualify for and would like to play. (I am turning 50 this year) I played MM1 all last year and can only register for MM1 but should be allowed to register for MG1 due to my age. Do you think this will be fixed?

Actually, if there are qualifying restrictions, this might be what they intended. With a lot of people complaining about the true amateur payout/nature of the event, there still might be spots available in May.

I couldn't find a way to get to sign ups through the store. I went to http://www.pdgasignup.com/.
You can sign up at Dynamic Disc.

The way I read the 2013 AM Worlds Invite information is that if you're a player aged 40-49 you can only enter MM1 on Mar 29. If you want to play MA1 you have to wait until May 3, at which point that division could be full.

Likewise if you're a junior player you have to register for your junior division on Mar 29 and can't try to get in to MA1 until May3, at which point that division could be full.

What is the rationale behind pigeonholing younger and older players into age restricted divisions and keeping them out of what should be the top "Open" amateur division (MA1)?

Some of those older and younger players didn't play an age restricted division for the entire 2012 year, why force them to register for one now?

This policy could keep some of the top amateur talent out of MA1...
I'm a grandmaster and I'm invited to play MA1 or MG1 but not MM1. My daughter is an amateur woman and she is invited to play MA1 but not FA1. It goes by where you earned your points last year. My daughter earned more amateur points than any amateur woman ever, but she earned them all playing MA1 and MA2. And I played in the same division as her at most of the tournaments we attended together. So we both got MA1 invites.

I'm not defending the invite process but just explaining. If you are an older player, or a woman, who played MA1 a lot, you probably got invited for MA1.

I'm a grandmaster and I'm invited to play MA1 or MG1 but not MM1. My daughter is an amateur woman and she is invited to play MA1 but not FA1. It goes by where you earned your points last year. My daughter earned more amateur points than any amateur woman ever, but she earned them all playing MA1 and MA2. And I played in the same division as her at most of the tournaments we attended together. So we both got MA1 invites.

I'm not defending the invite process but just explaining. If you are an older player, or a woman, who played MA1 a lot, you probably got invited for MA1.
That's only after the change the made late last week. Before that you were only invited to MG1 with no option to register for MA1 during the initial registration period.

I'm a grandmaster and I'm invited to play MA1 or MG1 but not MM1. My daughter is an amateur woman and she is invited to play MA1 but not FA1. It goes by where you earned your points last year. My daughter earned more amateur points than any amateur woman ever, but she earned them all playing MA1 and MA2. And I played in the same division as her at most of the tournaments we attended together. So we both got MA1 invites.

I'm not defending the invite process but just explaining. If you are an older player, or a woman, who played MA1 a lot, you probably got invited for MA1.

If I am reading the page correctly,

invitees (only) may register for the divisions for which they qualified last year (began March 29).
invitees (only still) may register for any other division for which they are eligible for beginning May 3.
Beginning May 31, all may register for any available spots in divisions for which they are eligible


It's really three tiers, so to me it appears to be the best and fairest way looking at the big picture. If a "first-year up to new age-protected division" player really wants to play in the new division. he/she still can if there are available spots on May 3 -- and without competing against the big rush of registrants. The number of people who want to change to another divsion have 28 days to do so, and will likely be a very small number of players (relatively speaking).

It's really three tiers, so to me it appears to be the best and fairest way looking at the big picture. If a "first-year up to new age-protected division" player really wants to play in the new division. he/she still can if there are available spots on May 3 -- and without competing against the big rush of registrants. The number of people who want to change to another divsion have 28 days to do so, and will likely be a very small number of players (relatively speaking).

I will agree in some respects to this, but not that it is fair to ALL.

A Ray

A couple of weeks ago at the TX States, there was not a division for AM GrandMasters. One was not offered and one was not going to be offered. Some MG1's played MM1 and some played MA2. And this was an "A" tier tourney for AMS and NT for PROs.

If a MG1 played only in MM1 or mostly in MM1 because some tourneys did not offer a MG1, how is it fair that that player cannot play his/her true division at Worlds. Is it fair for them to have to play in a division that they might not be able to compete in. And this is true in several of the age protected divisions.

Just some thoughts.....

I will agree in some respects to this, but not that it is fair to ALL.

A Ray

A couple of weeks ago at the TX States, there was not a division for AM GrandMasters. One was not offered and one was not going to be offered. Some MG1's played MM1 and some played MA2. And this was an "A" tier tourney for AMS and NT for PROs.

If a MG1 played only in MM1 or mostly in MM1 because some tourneys did not offer a MG1, how is it fair that that player cannot play his/her true division at Worlds. Is it fair for them to have to play in a division that they might not be able to compete in. And this is true in several of the age protected divisions.

Just some thoughts.....

I agree with some points too. But i try to look at all sides. I've come to the conclusion that nothing will be perfect, but this is better. I was one of those MG1's who played MM1 at Texas States. But in reality, everyone knows (even now) that there will be a certain number of points to qualify in each division for next year's Worlds. One can begin playing in enough tournaments to qualify (for example in our case, in MG1), if we so choose. Knowing that some tournaments won't offer all divisions (e.g., age-protected Am women have it much worse than we do), then you have to do what you need to do to qualify.

To me the converse is worse -- having players qualify in whatever division and have them be able to register for any eligible division, regardless of which one they qualified in, and able to do so from day one. The solution PDGA has this year is a kinda compromise which works best for all, though it's not perfect. Last year in Charlotte (before they added spots) for example, MG1 filled at 72, then because it was a combined pro-am worlds, a bunch of MG1's just registered for MPG, simply because they were eligible and wanted to play. This left fewer spots for those who ACTUALLY QUALIFIED in MPG, so just allowing everyone to do whatever is worse.

You can find enough tournaments where your preferred division is offered to earn you points if you truly want to. If the juniors, FM1's and FG1's can, then surely we can to.

I signed up a few days ago, and It sure would be nice to have confirmation that I am in for sure. They have not updated the registration page for a few days.

Also I wonder when the host hotel information will be available?

I signed up a few days ago, and It sure would be nice to have confirmation that I am in for sure. They have not updated the registration page for a few days.

Also I wonder when the host hotel information will be available?

I received an email confirmation right away.

I hadn't seen anywhere where they'd posted division caps for divisions that are combined within a pool... but apparently they have 'em. MS1, FM1, FJ3, and FJ2 are full per the Online Registration (https://www.breinerinc.com/site/node/2):
4/1/13 11:00pm EST Note: The JUNIOR Girls 13 and Under (FJ3) division has filled.
4/2/13 3:45pm EST Note: The ADVANCED Master Women (FM1) division has filled.
4/4/13 5:30pm EST Note: The ADVANCED Master Men (MM1) division has filled.
4/5/13 4:30pm EST Note: The ADVANCED Sr Grandmaster Men (MS1) division has filled.
4/7/13 2:00pm EST Note: The JUNIOR Girls 16 and Under (FJ2) division has filled.
4/8/13 10:30pm EST Note: The ADVANCED Grandmaster Men (MG1) division has filled.

Those cap numbers would have been good information to be posted somewhere.

Also, the junior girls divisions are really capped at two players?

The division caps were all on the Worlds Course Schedule, however, the Junior were listed as pools J and K, and were supposed to hold 72 players. There are currently only 24 Juniors signed up, so I don't understand why they would stop taking any Juniors.

The division caps were all on the Worlds Course Schedule, however, the Junior were listed as pools J and K, and were supposed to hold 72 players. There are currently only 24 Juniors signed up, so I don't understand why they would stop taking any Juniors.
Those are not necessarily division caps on the course schedule. They aren't even exactly pool caps. "Mega Pool" caps or "Pod" caps maybe.
But from that you can't tell how many spots they had allocated for MS1 for example.

http://www.pdga.com/discussion/attachment.php?attachmentid=1132&stc=1&d=1365619616

Andrew started with subcaps for the multiple division pools for the initial registrations to make sure a "fair" number of players from each division (based on historical entries) could get in during the first wave of registration. I believe once the next wave opens, the subcaps will be lifted and it's a free for all to fill a pool with the max number of players allowed regardless of the divisions in that pool.

Chuck, quick question...

If I am playing MM1 this year because I qualify for it by age(49), and that is the only points that I accumulate, will I get an invite for MG1 next year since I will then be eligible for it.

and to go along with that....

If somebody is playing in the junior division this year and gets their points from both juniors and MA1, do they have to play the junior division even though by next year they will have aged out of the junior divisions?

You should get an MG1 invite. I think the invite/registration process was tighter this year due to the reduced field sizes all around. We should have even more capacity in the Twin Cities next year than in Charlotte with 8 courses currently planned.

A Junior ages out of a division even if they earned points in it the previous year.

Any word on to what values these pools expanded?

Per the Online Registration (https://www.breinerinc.com/site/node/2):
[...]
4/18/13 3:00am EST Note: The ADVANCED Master Men (MM1) division is nearing capacity [POOL EXPANDED]. The last spots will be filled from the WAITLIST -- as they come in.
4/18/13 3:00am EST Note: The ADVANCED Grandmaster Men (MG1) division is nearing capacity [POOL EXPANDED]. The last spots will be filled from the WAITLIST -- as they come in.
4/18/13 3:00am EST Note: The ADVANCED Women (FA1) division is nearing capacity [POOL EXPANDED]. The last spots will be filled from the WAITLIST -- as they come in.

Any word on to what values these pools expanded?

Per the Online Registration (https://www.breinerinc.com/site/node/2):
[...]
4/18/13 3:00am EST Note: The ADVANCED Master Men (MM1) division is nearing capacity [POOL EXPANDED]. The last spots will be filled from the WAITLIST -- as they come in.
4/18/13 3:00am EST Note: The ADVANCED Grandmaster Men (MG1) division is nearing capacity [POOL EXPANDED]. The last spots will be filled from the WAITLIST -- as they come in.
4/18/13 3:00am EST Note: The ADVANCED Women (FA1) division is nearing capacity [POOL EXPANDED]. The last spots will be filled from the WAITLIST -- as they come in.

This is important info for those trying to make travel plans. E.g. multiple MM1 players that used to all be in the same pool, but now might be split across pools which complicates the travel logistics for the week.

And speaking of travel plans... what's up with the lack of host-type hotel info?

This link to hotel info was put on their facebook page:
http://dynamicdiscs.com/2013amworlds/2013-am-worlds-hotel-information.pdf

This link to hotel info was put on their facebook page:
http://dynamicdiscs.com/2013amworlds/2013-am-worlds-hotel-information.pdf
Good find.

It'd be nice if they updated what appears to be the official Worlds webpage with that info. Still says coming soon:
http://www.pdga.com/discussion/attachment.php?attachmentid=1136&stc=1&d=1366474809 (http://www.dynamicdiscs.com/2013amworlds/)

As far as the pool expansion goes, I am guessing that the pools will expand to 90, and they will have fivesomes instead of foursomes. That way they wouldn't have to change their pool schedule. But that is just a guess.

As far as the pool expansion goes, I am guessing that the pools will expand to 90, and they will have fivesomes instead of foursomes. That way they wouldn't have to change their pool schedule. But that is just a guess.
Based on what the latest upload shows and this on the registration page:
4/20/13 5:00am EST Note: The ADVANCED Master Men (MM1) division is nearing capacity [POOL EXPANDED]. The last spots will be filled from the WAITLIST -- as they come in [3 spots left].
4/20/13 5:00am EST Note: The ADVANCED Grandmaster Men (MG1) division is nearing capacity [POOL EXPANDED]. The last spots will be filled from the WAITLIST -- as they come in [6 spots left].
I'd say you were right about the 90.


But I really, really hope you're wrong on the fivesomes. That might not change the pools, but you'd think it's gotta impact the scheduling of those pools. Fivesomes at Worlds... ugh.

I Know It Is A Little Late But If Anyone Knows Of A Lady Needing A Partner For Mix Doubles In Emporia Please Let Me know.

Any chance that the Course Info will be "COMING SOON"?

What is the best way to get questions answered about Am Worlds? This forum, Facebook posts, Facebook PMs? Wondering about when the final schedule would be done, including the fly-mart, parties, other events and also when the course info will be provided, and when the confirmation emails are coming out. Thanks!

Hmmmm...It seems last year there was MUCH more information posted by this time (7 Weeks out) about schedule, etc. than there has been this year. The Course information on the Official page is still marked as coming soon.

The basis of my information was checking the official PDGA thread of last year's Worlds and looking at Chuck Kennedy's analysis of where everyone was coming from to play and discussions about the schedule.

A look at the two websites says a lot. The Pro World's website has so much more information about the actual tournament, which takes place in 3 months vs. the Am Worlds which has TWO PDF documents and a link to the PDGA registration page.

The Course info is now up and running. Thanks!!

I am hoping that the lack of sales of fund-raisers that they usually have before AM Worlds means that they already have raised lots of funds for us. I usually like to buy some fund raisers to get entries for a course of baskets and to get some cool looking AM Worlds souvenirs ahead of time, but nothing available this year.

I believe they are soon going to announce the sale of Champion Larry's.

I believe they are soon going to announce the sale of Champion Larry's.

I'll take 5!

I've got my Champion Larrys, my confirmation , my hotel room, and my old man cart all tuned up. Can't wait to see everyone in Kansas!!

Getting excited to get to Emporia and see a lot of good friends! Isn't anybody else? When's everyone else getting in? I'm shooting for around noon on Saturday. Looking forward to a fun week of disc golf with a lot of fun people!

If you are going to be in Emporia for the Am Worlds and have a good DSLR and long lens let us know. We definitely need a bit of additional help documenting the players and the event.

Contact me at [email protected] for more information.
Thanks

John Whinery
DiscGolfer magazine Photo Editor

Results, updates, etc ?

Results have been posted for doubles on the event calendar. No final results yet for distance, putting or EDGE. Should have some first round singles scores up by around Noon (CDT) on Tuesday.

Just wondering what's going on with those crazy kids out there?
Lot's of people down here are rooting for Ian Krajna in the >13 Division.

It's been great following from afar the action at the PDGA Amateur & Junior Disc Golf World Championships via the PDGA Live Scoring (@pdgalive) feed on Twitter, the Live hole-by-hole scoring, the pictures on the PDGA Tour Flickr feed, and the daily articles written by Warren Hollinshead on the front page of the PDGA website. Nice job, folks! :cool:

However, it's a little depressing that there have been absolutely zero posts on this PDGA DISCussion Board this entire week about it. Nothing from the 536 competitors, zilch from any of their friends or family who are PDGA members, and nada from any event staff or volunteers. If we're not using the PDGA DISCussion Board for our world championships, arguably our biggest and most important tournament events of the year, then what's the use?

This message board is barely on life support. :(

However, it's a little depressing that there have been absolutely zero posts on this PDGA DISCussion Board this entire week about it. Nothing from the 536 competitors, zilch from any of their friends or family who are PDGA members, and nada from any event staff or volunteers. If we're not using the PDGA DISCussion Board for our world championships, arguably our biggest and most important tournament events of the year, then what's the use?

This message board is barely on life support. :(

I was on a self-imposed hiatus from this board (or any board) during the uber moderation days that supposedly sucked the life out of this place, so I don't know if that is at the root. But when I returned, there was a looming threat that the discussion forum was going away when the "new" website launched. Obviously that new site hasn't happened, but I think the threat did the damage that opened the door for other sites to grab and keep the traffic that might otherwise be here. Social media probably has a role as well.

It's been great following from afar the action at the PDGA Amateur & Junior Disc Golf World Championships via the PDGA Live Scoring (@pdgalive) feed on Twitter, the Live hole-by-hole scoring, the pictures on the PDGA Tour Flickr feed, and the daily articles written by Warren Hollinshead on the front page of the PDGA website. Nice job, folks! :cool:
Not much coverage of the advanced men's division semis.

The winner had a 11 stroke lead, no need for too many updates.

This message board is barely on life support. :(

I'm not detecting a pulse.../

Congrats to Colleen Thompson on the huge win! This and her victory at the Collegiate Championships make me wonder how'd she do against Valarie, Catrina, Paige, etc.

http://www.pdga.com/tournament_results/103117